Now guys let's stop infantilizing married women for remember that there would be no affair and no OM if there was no WW.

TMCM:

If we cannot have a thread to beat up OMs will go nuts!

You have to agree these OMS have so much in common!

Plus my wife does not care anynmore if I beat up on OM.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a good OM bashing just like the next BH [I am one after all you know] and I do agree that some of them are merciless predators who care nothing about destroying marriages and families as long as they get their jollies and another notch in their belt, but lets be careful in not feeding our anger and bitterness at the OM's because we will only end up only hurting ourselves and our loved ones in the process. Like the wise one JL is fond of saying "Resentment is like taking poison and expecting the other person to die".

Come on now - we can beat him up a little - heck, he's my WH..I'm allowed..
Yes, they are smooth/classy and very patient..see they are in no hurry - it's part of the game/excitement - each prey has it's own timeline..Since they probably have many OP's they are with there is no need to hurry.

They like to seem not fully interested but not too aloof either..It's the "I'm safe game". in my WH case - "it's the I'm M game - I wear a W ring..I'm harmless, shy, quiet kind of guy"...

Boy - I should have listened better - It's the quiet ones you have to watch...hahahhah

Here's an update:

I found out last night that the OM did indeed come to our house for dinner AFTER he became the OM. He dropped by one day when my wife wasn't there - bearing a pizza - ostensibly to hang out with me. Great guy, huh? Of course, when my wife got home...he turned into a love-struck puppy.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by AndrewA:
<strong> Here's an update:

I found out last night that the OM did indeed come to our house for dinner AFTER he became the OM. He dropped by one day when my wife wasn't there - bearing a pizza - ostensibly to hang out with me. Great guy, huh? Of course, when my wife got home...he turned into a love-struck puppy. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Andrew, I know that you recently just found out. And you may not appreciate me posting on your thread, but let's all take a deep breath here.
Are there men and women who deliberately go looking for affairs- and have a hook, line and sinker to "prey" on vulnerable people? Sure. I would estimate, however, that the number of people out there doing this is much much smaller then you think. MOST affairs start without conscious intent to have an A- on the part of both participants (and note that I am using the word PARTICIPANT). In rolls the fog, self-justification starts occurring, and before you know it the PARTICIPANTS ARE intentionally having an A.

Perhaps it makes you feel better to think of your wife as a victim. I think, however, that if you do that you are actually disrespecting her. She is an adult. She made a choice to betray your marriage vows- obviously a bad choice.
She was not tied down, fed drugs or kidnapped. And, as you know, there are generally reasons for why A's happen. What the OM told her- or didn't tell her- is really irrelevant here. What IS relevant is your relationship with your W- and the steps you are going to take together to fix it. This is about you and her- not him.

Bowing out now, and ducking the rocks that are going to be thrown after me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> MOST affairs start without conscious intent to have an A- on the part of both participants </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is fine. However, once the affair starts there is no reason for the OM to brutally humiliate the BH by showing up at his house pretending he is a friend. There is no need for the OM to make eyes and exchange glances with the WW while the BH looks away completely oblivious to the situation. That is right down cruel and despicable behavior. If you ever had an affair with a married woman I am sure you would not do that! This speaks to the character of most OMs and perhaps WWs as well. However, I am sure not all are this cruel.

You see-- for some of us BHs this behavior is SO HARD to understand!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stanley568:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> MOST affairs start without conscious intent to have an A- on the part of both participants </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is fine. However, once the affair starts there is no reason for the OM to brutally humiliate the BH by showing up at his house pretending he is a friend. There is no need for the OM to make eyes and exchange glances with the WW while the BH looks away completely oblivious to the situation. That is right down cruel and despicable behavior. If you ever had an affair with a married woman I am sure you would not do that! This speaks to the character of most OMs and perhaps WWs as well. However, I am sure not all are this cruel.

You see-- for some of us BHs this behavior is SO HARD to understand! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, a few points to respond:

1) Despicable? Yes Cruel? Yes. What part of an A ISN'T despicable and cruel.

2) If the WS/OP met socially- with spouses or otherwise- before the A, they likely will continue to do so after the A starts. If they didn't- then it isn't likely that the OP is going to initiate contact with the WS's H or W.

3) Both persons are, remember, in fogland. They "self-justify" to the point where what they are doing DOESN'T seem to them to be cruel or despicable- I doubt that in this situation the OM thought "aha! I'm going to go over and pretend to be his friend so I can laugh behind his back and chortle at his ignorance." What he was probably thinking was "I really want to see her. If I go over there, as I have in the past, I get a chance to see her." And if HE is evil and cruel for doing this- isn't the WW also evil and cruel for allowing it?

and finally

4) What OM did- or didn't do- is really just not relevant. What is IMPORTANT is the relationship between the BS and the WS now- how they work together to fix what was broken- not whether the OP was an "Evil-doer.

You just had to know I couldn't miss this thread didn't you Stan?

Even taking the idea that my wife, our wives, were willing participants in the affair, and lets face it they were!!

Still............ I only want the chance to get him in my cross hairs ONCE, because I wont have to again!!
However my wife made sure he was in another state before the affair came out %$^^*&*&^%%^&^#@$%^^&&^** it !!!

I could have got away with temp insanity back then too.

I THINK I am half joking, but not sure so maybe its better he's not around.

I don't disagree with you regarding the motives. I am sure they did not plan a humiliation.

We tend to justify behaviors like this as the fog. I have never been foggy, I am not even sure if I could get foggy, but your assumption implies that those who are foggy lose contact with reality and therefore have no idea they are causing catastrophic harm to others. Perhaps this is the case, however there must be an inherent personality flaw that allows this fog to take over. I don't think these folks are psychotic!

<small>[ October 12, 2004, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stanley568:
<strong> I have never been foggy, I am not even sure if I could get foggy, but your assumption implies that those who are foggy lose contact with reality and therefore have no idea they are causing catastrophic harm to others. Perhaps this is the case, however there must be an inherent personality flaw that allows this for to take over. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Really? I have to admit I was foggy. However, I don't think I have an inherent personality flaw and I don't think that most people who have A's have inherent personality flaws- I think that they are people struggling with their lives who make bad choices, and - as ALL people do- seek to justify their actions in their own minds. You obviously disagree.

There are many in the planet who are unable to commit adultery. Maybe they are the ones with a flaw. Would you agree that there are some folks who are not wired for infidelity? Ultimately anyone could do it, I will not preach an absolute, but IMO the wayward folks tend to have much in common with each other. what do you think?

<small>[ October 12, 2004, 01:38 PM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stanley568:
<strong> There are many in the planet who are unable to commit adultery. Maybe they are the ones with a flaw. Would you agree that there are some folks who are not wired for infidelity? Ultimately anyone could do it, I will not preach an absolute, but IMO the wayward folks tend to have much in common with each other. what do you think? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do I agree that there are some folks who are not "wired" for infidelity? No. I think infidelity is a choice- we are all programmed to procreate and therefore to want sex. We choose to remain faithful.

As you then said, "ultimately anyone could do it." And yes, I actually agree with this. Anyone COULD do it. Whether anyone WOULD do it is a different matter, and that is dependent on a huge variety of factors and circumstances- the REASON behind why people make this bad choice. It's awfully easy to say " I would never" if you haven't experienced the life paths that others have taken. (I am NOT saying that challenges/difficulties etc excuse A's, by the way).

Do the wayward folk have more in common with one another then others? I don't know- what do you think? What similarities do you see?

Great answers------------ and then you want me to answer my own question. I was expecting that!

OK, they tend to be romantic dreamers with perhaps an inaccurate sense or reality. The latter is what makes them prone to the fog.

As to why folks stray? The reasons are many.

What do you think?

Sadfww

I think I have to agree with you on this one.

If I have learned anything from the last few years its that everyone will & can do things they would in 'normal' circumstances believe to be wrong or even evil, or selfless & sometimes even heroic given the RIGHT circumstances.
They might in fact do them all. well some of 'they' have.

However in the end we make choices, some good, some bad. For most of us we have to live with those choices and the consequences that those choices bring with them.

In affairs its much the same as any other issue. You can rebuild most of what you have destroyed but I think its rare to actually rebuild 100%. Somethings are lost forever.

And apart from those who suffer behaviourial issues from childhood, I dont think anyones particulary wired to cheat or not to cheat.

Just because I've never to date been interested enough to cheat does not mean that I could not fall madly into 'fog' with some young enticing thing in the future. Even if I did so I still have the choice to actually DO something. Though people will argue that by being in the fog your thought process is impaired....mmm sounds awfully like an excuse, I think I had better go to bed.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stanley568:
<strong> Great answers------------ and then you want me to answer my own question. I was expecting that!

OK, they tend to be romantic dreamers with perhaps an inaccurate sense or reality. The latter is what makes them prone to the fog.

As to why folks stray? The reasons are many.

What do you think? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Stanley- Wayward spouses are every age, ethnicity, religion, gender, culture etc etc etc.
It's hard to find a common label or defining trait for such a vast assortment of people- all with different motivations and backgrounds. I guess I can say that one thing I have noticed since posting here is that most of the FWW are lacking in self-esteem and self-confidence, and were looking for more attention then their H was giving them. Apart from that, I'm not sure that there is a real defining trait. Thoughts?

Correct, low self-esteem is practically a universal trait and that includes OMs as well.

However, from what I have seen it appears that those who get involved in affairs have poor perception of reality and seem to give themselves too easily into unrealistic situations.

My wife's OM thought that HE was not having an affair and called my kids his kids. At one point he told my wife they were a normal couple and at times would call her wife.

He made a ton od plans in the air---- that included running a business with her , ect. This guy was either a foolish dreamer or a great con man.

Are you a romantic? A dreamer?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stanley568:
<strong> However, from what I have seen it appears that those who get involved in affairs have poor perception of reality and seem to give themselves too easily into unrealistic situations.


Are you a romantic? A dreamer? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I haven't read much of Myrta's threads- but from what you say it sounds like her OM was delusional.

As for me personally, I actually took your question and posed it to a bunch of friends of mine via email. The universal opinion (with which I concur) is that I am level headed with my feet firmly planted on the ground. HOWEVER, keep in mind that my waywardness occurred well over 8 years ago as a young/mid 20 something. The answer may well have been different then.

Well, I guess this discussion has gotten a bit off of the original topic. Sorry!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I haven't read much of Myrta's threads- but from what you say it sounds like her OM was delusional.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">he refused to admit they were having an affair. He also refused the term lover------ he was her fiance/boyfriend. He wanted to give fatherly advice to my children and added his surname to my wife's 1st name.

So you are not a romantic dreamer anymore?

Do you fall in love easily? That may be another trait. What do you think?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stanley568:
<strong> So you are not a romantic dreamer anymore?

Do you fall in love easily? That may be another trait. What do you think? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know if I ever was a romantic dreamer. I definitely don't fall in love easily. My H was and is the only love of my life- and we have been together since I was 16. I will admit that I *thought* I was in love during my period of waywardness, but I know I wasn't. And that was the only period of my life that I thought I loved another man.

Thoughts?