Stanley,

With all due respect to you -- and you know what concern and respect I have for you -- when you speak to CC, you are not speaking to another betrayed spouse. She has come here and has represented herself as the BETRAYED, confused one. Her confusion stems, not from having been cheated on, but from having been involved in an affair herself. So she, like me, is both the WW AND the OW, depending on the point of view of the onlooker. No?

CC,

I'm sorry, but I can't offer you any sense of condolence or comfort, CC. You reap what you sow. And your tearful posts and reply doesn't begin to address the concept of your taking responsibility for ALL your actions. You are portraying yourself as the victim all along here. You are no victim. You have victimized a large number of people.

And the interesting fact is that you have managed to pull someone like Stanley, a BS, into your vision of things.

Your concern should not EVER be the OW in your A. If you husband came here and posted the things that you did today, I would accept that. But instead, you want us to accept the fact that you've been victimized by your OW, and now that you can "finally" see her in her "true light," NOW you can move on.

Sorry, but you're not entitled to feel "horrid" about your own feelings, IMO. Everything that you're going through now, five months after your DD, is YOUR OWN DOING, not the OW's. Even to blame your choices on the fact that she wasn't what you thought she was? How about YOU weren't what you thought you were???

You're not going to get through this by blaming someone or something else. Take responsibility for YOUR actions in the A and in the fallout since DD. STOP TALKING ABOUT her. STOP referring to anything that has anything to do with her!

Repeat after me:

*I* made choices that were of my own free will. *I* must deal with the consequences of my own choices, regardless of how difficult that may be for me.
*I* will come out of this a better person.
*I* will strive every day to repair my family and home life and I will be a stronger person because of it.

CC, no more games, no more transferance of blame. Be honest to yourself, because YOU is all you've got.

FaithfullyHoping,

I'm too weak today to go into detail any more than I can. I can accept that you (as a former WW) can't even give me condolences. I knew this wasn't the place to even write what I did.

I think that I mentioned before that I'm finally seeing that my A was a mistake. No matter the reason, I'm acknowledging that *I* took part it in of my own free will (unlike my ex's accusations, that I had some kind of "spell" over her!!). I totally understood what I did and why. I'm not placing "blame" on my ex. *I* did it because I wanted to, and because it was selfish and exciting and wonderful at the time. I'm paying the price now.

I can't very well say that I hope to come out of this stronger, because as of today I feel beaten down and stripped of ANY self-worth. I am aware that this may be a breakthrough and it may be good, but right now I'm too disappointed in myself to have any hopes at all.

I made a bad judgment call. I went into the A for whatever reasons I had. Even if my ex was to blame for everything (and she wasn't), I still have myself to blame because I knowingly went into it. I KNOW THAT. I ADMIT THAT.

I hope to move on now and put her in my past. What's done is done. I just hoped that she didn't hate me, but even that is irrelevant. She has no right to even think about me anymore, as I don't about her. She has no right to even KNOW about my life anymore. I have to move on, sever ties, be aware of the possibilities of transferring any information about me to her, or vice versa.

I will try to get on with my life and repair things, just as soon as I can pick myself off the floor.

CC

CC,


Here is a thread you should read. WakeUp’s Thread There is one particular post at the end that I think is significant for you. I will copy it here.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Waking up-

Wow... I think you will understand this (as will most WS who were emotionally involved).

When I came to the OW and told her that I wanted to "do the right thing" and go back to my W and try to repair my M" it was something that caught her completely offguard. One day everything in the A was fine and the next day I told her it was over. She wasn't a happy camper. I had emotionally been dealing with this for several months but she thought everything was fine. Yikes... that's when things got crazy.

At first there was obvious disbelief then flood of emotions (from the OW) from depression and threats of sucide to anger and threats of exposure (to work, family, W). Then the guilt. "If you loved me you wouldn't have done this to me". "You must have just used me". My problem was that I wanted (like most of us) to leave the relationship feeling good about the past and not hurting this OW who I had cared for.

In my mind I wanted to sit down and have a nice conversation where we would express the fun times shared, hug, wish each other the best in our future and walk away feeling all good about life.

It just doesn't work that way. The calls started. She would call my cell phone (I had a special cell phone for her) so I disconnected it. She started calling my work cell phone and I would ignore the calls. She would leave messages on that phone...everything from "I miss you" to "You're a jerk and I hate you (edited)). She would call and then I would finally answer. The trick that got me were the comments like "I loved you and you must not have ever cared about me or you wouldn't have just dropped me not caring about how I am even doing". I'm a nice guy and didn't want to be thought of as an insensitive, uncaring jerk. So I would talk to her.

By now I had given my wife all passwords and access to my cell logs. My W could see I was occasionally talking to OW. NOT GOOD. But I was guilt ridden and wanted to walk away from the A feeling good. YUCK. I would do good for a few days and then answer. I would get mad at myself and go a few more days...even a week and then answer. I begged her to quit calling but she would say that she just had to know I was alright. After two years she deserved that courtesy (SO SHE SAID). This strung out the final goodbye for almost two months.

Lessons learned... You can't walk away feeling good. You just have to bite the bullet and walk away. You will feel bad about what you've done but the OP is an adult and is responsible for their own feelings. They will hurt... they will get over it... they will move on. BUT... IT'S NOT YOUR PROBLEM ANYMORE!

So... Don't fall into the same trap (and it is a trap). It's hard... It hurts... BUT you have to walk away.

Does that explain anything? I think FL went through much of the same.

2scared </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">CC, do you recall your first posts here. You said something that I believe you need to remember. You said that OW was very jealous of your family and your marriage to your H. You admitted it was good and then proceeded to throw it away to pursue OW. Now you are finding out that OW dragged you down and into a situation not too different from what she TOLD you her marriage was like and wanted to leave. So she did leave your relationship after you threatened some pretty nasty things, and you are left with… what?

If you have any brains what you will be left with is a good family and an H that loves you and that you finally love as he deserves. I said it before and I will repeat it now, you are at home and married in name only BECAUSE you H had the grace to stick with you when you abandoned him for you OW. You now have a chance but it will take you finally quitting the “navel contemplating” stuff of wondering and worrying about your OW and finally deciding to reach out and see the man that clearly loves you. I would be greatly surprised if the love is untouched and unconditional as it used to be, and I doubt that it is not in trouble, but you have a chance to make something here, and it is called a good marriage. I don’t know your H but your second chance is probably wearing out. Time to accept it and use it to get where you need to be.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

JL,

Wow!! Thank you SO much for finding that and posting it here. As you can imagine, I'm not online for too long, so I probably wouldn't have gone looking for it. Thank you!!!!!!!!!!

That could have EASILY been my OW speaking! To the tee! EXACTLY!! I know that's how she felt, and I know how the woman in that scenario felt. It's upsetting and heartbreaking to be on the receiving end of that. It's very confusing because you're the bright spot on their life, and you're everything they hoped for, and then at some point they realize they can't go ahead with it, and even though they care about you, they HAVE to do what's best for them. But you're left wondering how they could do this to you if they cared. I know EXACTLY how that woman felt!!!!!!!

It helps to hear the WH's perspective on that one. I think it's how my OW felt. When I read some of her emails over (the ones forwarded to me), I realized how much she did care, but things got out of control. *I* got out of control when she wanted to end it, but I was looking for that "closure". It sounded nice--wanting a final conversation. That was my dream too! Can't we be adults and end it nicely? Return anything to the other party that they wanted, say thank-you for being so special, and then acknowledging that it became too much (and too wrong)?? In my head, that's what I wanted. I wanted the acknowledgment from her.

In a way, I heard through those emails, what I did mean to her, so it wasn't all in my head. What got me was that I had proof of it and yet she denied it.

That all doesn't matter now, because I'm FINALLY at the point where I know it was wrong. She brought me some good, and I have to move on from there and see how I could repair things here.

I told my H about it last night, and told him more today (more emails were forwarded to me). He was just worried that my spending ANY time online would lead to another A. He's nervous and rightfully so (even though I'd NEVER do it again!). I told him that I won't post on that site anymore (the one she was following ME at, so she was privvy to my life!!). She has no right to know about my life anymore. Right now, even though I wish her well, I don't care about her life. Sounds good, huh?

Thank you SO much for that link. I have MUCH more work to do, and I hope I'm on the right road, for the first time in 5 months (or maybe since last July). I'm done with worrying and feeling sick and sad over her. I MADE A MISTAKE, and so did she. It's too bad it ended like it did, because I did indeed lose a friend. We never should have crossed that line. Sad...

I'm SO grateful for my H and my family and my friends. They're been rallying around me for all this time, and I feel like I've been the walking dead. I've been no use to anyone, just trying to go through each day, but with no zest anymore. I hope to get that back. I want to recover. I want to love my H again and be in love with him. Time will tell.

Thanks so much. I'll be back when I can.

CC

CC,

You want to know something interesting. I was thinking you would see it from 2scared side, not his OW. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> The point is there is no "graceful" way out of these things. They just really need to end.

Now you see why Harley is such a NC devotee. There is not easy way, no painless way, it just needs to end. Yours has ended, so you really do have about all of the closure you will get. Well...actually i think you will find closure when you find your H again. Then you will know.

I am glad this helped.

God Bless,

JL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Can't we be adults and end it nicely? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There's that WS "entitlement" factor again. I think your H and my H and every BS out there would say JUST ENDING it is nice.

And in your particular case, your last words to your OW weren't very "nice." This is you, grasping at desperate straws, still. Why don't you ask your H NOW, "Honey, do you mind if I call OW and have just one more conversation with her to wrap things up nicely??" How assanine does that sound?

Behavior in an A is adult RATED behavior but it's not mature. There's a difference.

JL, I thought she'd read that from the wS's point of view too. Oh well.

<small>[ October 21, 2004, 08:49 PM: Message edited by: FaithfullyHoping ]</small>

JL,

I saw it from BOTH sides. Does that make sense?? It made me see a little more of what she went through, and I could see me in the OW too. In any case, it helped.

Faithfully,

You wanna hear something weird? My H would have encouraged me to talk to my OW one more time, if it meant wrapping things up and not living with questions. He asked me if it was over on DD, and he asked if I wanted to clear things up with her. He wanted to know if I'd ever do this again. Back then I just wanted to know how she could have hurt me like she did. I needed some answers.

I know I had NO right to anything, even anything from her, but I guess that I know what I would have done and I expected the same from her. That was one mistake that I made in many relationships-I always assume that the other person would do what I'd do.

I can rest more now, with the knowledge of some of those recent emails forwarded to me. At least I know how she viewed our relationship, even if she was clearly lying throughout some of the emails. I know how she feels now, and I feel stupid for trying so desperately to reach out to her for 5 months, when all it did was make me seem crazy and make her regret meeting me at all. She said that had these 5 months not happened, she would have mourned the loss of the closest friend she ever had and then moved on. Instead she was on guard, trying to see where I'd pop up or if I'd interfere in her life. I made a mistake, no matter what the reason. I wish I could have been grateful and walked away, but I wanted answers and thought I deserved them from her.

In any event, I'm spending less time online, less time worrying about her, and more time with my family. Hopefully things will fall into place. We'll see.

Thanks for your help. I'll tty as soon as I can.

CC

CC,

You said "hopefully things will fall into place". CC there is no "hopeful" about this. If you use your time wisely, if you love your H in the biblical sense (ie: as a verb), THEN you will heal, your H will heal, and your marriage will heal. This really is not like going to Vegas and gambling. It really is a self-determined system we are dealing with here.

You have an H that loves you and is willing to forgive you given that, then all you need to do is to "love" him and the feelings WILL come back. If he was not ready to forgive, then it be something else, but luck has little to do with it.

You loved him once, and he loves you, therefore, this can be done. It is just takes you deciding to "love" him as you vowed to do, and I am sure the feelings of being "in love" will come back. It takes time, but it also takes "attitude", the "attitude" that you will do what you promised to him the day you two wed; love him.

It is a very powerful verb CC. Use it wisely and you will see the healing power of it in you and your H.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL