I hate to say this, and yes I am new, but do this to be practical: put your finances to where you can pay your own bills. If that means selling a house or moving to get cheaper rent, do it. You have been married a long time, with kids, but make sure you don't have to take him back because you need his money. I am in that stage now, and I wonder if I am still in contact with WH, even though I have moved out, because I am afraid of not making it on my own. I am taking steps to make sure I can, and then I will know if I love him or if it was just dependence.

Thank you for your advice...but I really don't think that it is dependence because I have alot of people that can help me. I just would like to know what is going to happen. He called his mother and didn't say much of anything except that he wasn't with her. His mother asked him if he would like me to pack his things and put them outside and he said no. Then she asked if he wanted her to come and get his things and he said no. So I really don't know where I stand at this point. I really do love my husband. I left three times and went back home to my family who were willing to help me in any way that they could and I came back. I just think right now he is having a hard time facing me. But I wish that whatever was going to happen would!!! Thanks for responding. And I hope that everything turns out with your situation. Are you and your husband trying to work things out?

What issues made you leave three times? And how long ago? Why would he not feel safe coming home? What could you do to make your home a safe place?

The good news is he does not want his stuff and is willing to talk to his family. By any chance is he having a mid life crisis (MLC)?

hi listener...he came home this morning and we talked some...he told hus mother he was not with her but when I asked he wouldn't say if he was or wasn't he asked what difference does it make where I was. I told him that it made a big difference in my decision about what to do. I asked him how he felt and he said he felt lost. I told him if that is the way he felt them maybe he should go and talk to someone. I asked him how he felt where we were concerned and he said he didn't know. So I asked him if he still loved me and he said yes. He said he was sorry to worry everyone and that he felt real bad. He said that when he is with her he wants to be here and when he is here he wants to be with her. He asked me why that is and I told him that I thought that whatever he thought was missing here that sent him to her on the first place he gets with her and that he gets his security, children, and whatever feelings he has for me here. So all his needs are being met by being in both places. He asked me how come him and I can't just sit around and talk and laugh with each other.I told him because we have 3 children and half their friends here with us all the time so it makes it hard for us to spend alone time together I also told him because we have the "married life" not the single just starting relationship. I told him down the road when all the newness of that relationship wore off that it would probably end up like where we are now. He asked can we ever have that again and I told him that as long as she was still in the picture probably not. I told him that if we are going to work things out we have to figure out how to meet all his needs in our marriage.
He thinks that I just need him here to helppay the bills and thats all I worry about. I told him that is not true. I asked his friend this weekend that after all he has done to me how come I can't find a way to hate him. I told my husband that I love him and that is the reason I want him to be here. He said he is confused and doesn't know what he wants. I know all about plan B, and now my question is what do I do? Do I make him leave, or should I let him stay? I want to work things out but he has to get rid of her. And how am I supposed to be sure he did that if he says he did? Becuase I know for sure she moved last week, so I don't have to worry about him working there anymore. But I have no idea where she moved to. Please any suggestions before he gets home from work today would be greatly appreciated!

Good you hear he came home!

It is to soon for plan B. You have not given any indication to me yet that you have tried a plan A. He gave you some hints what he was looking for. Conversation and time alone. So how are you going to fulfill this. Institute a date night were it is just the two of you no kids. Can you not get the kids to goto someone elses house. Steve Harley says a healthy marriage needs 15 hours a week, but a marriage in trouble needs 25 hours. It sounds impossible, but once you set your mind to it you can quit some things and cut back in others.

You are right though while he is contact with the other women (OW) you do not have much hope. He needs to be willing to give you 100% transparency, ie access to all emails, cell phones, his schedule, and a way to contact him 24/7. He of course will fight this, but how else are you going to build trust.

What you need to do:
1) Find a marriage counsellor you both can trust
2) Decide how long you will do as perfect a Plan A as you can
3) Purchase or goto the library for His Needs, Her Needs and Love Busters. Most other people would suggest Surviving an Affair I have not read this one at all.

When you talk with him about your relationship are calm or mad? In other words are you creating an atmosphere were he will feel safe to share his feelings.

I was very calm today and I think that through him for a loop. I just said that we needed to find what it is that we are going to do.At this point ZI just want to tell him to get out and not go through this anymore but then I get afraid that he won't come back but part of me knows he will. I think that there are other factors involved. But any more advice would be appreciated. Thanx!!!!!!!

I feel your pain, hoping by now you have some answers! My husband did the same thing to me back in March - I went out came home and found all his things gone..... no note, no money... I called and called his cell phone also and no answer then finally turned off. He did however call me finally within a few days, he had indeed moved in with OW whom left her 3 children and husband in the same manner. He has been in and out of my house so many times I am losing count., he returned many times only to leave again in April to another state.... didn't hear from him for weeks... finally he asked we meet and talk... he came home in July - and has continued to contact other women everyday.... I like you love the man, not sure why sometimes, we don't deserve this type of treatment... we need someone who is strong and dependable... Hang tight and continue to be strong... this situation has shown me how strong and determined I can be and can survive on my own with my teenage sons... who by the way have not an ounce of respect for their father anymore, they has watched it all and taken it all in.... made their own judgements.... all of which he has created for himself.... Don't cover for him ... don't make excuses for him... no one tied his arm behind his back all is being done of their own free will.... I am finally after a year reaching my point of just saying "get out and stay out" especially since I've been on my own for several months and did just fine... At first its hard - very hard but as they say "time heals all wounds" and to be honest with you... "I am sorry for the day I allowed him back into my life" back to start the whole process of games all over again... Just because he's confussed doesn't mean our lives need to be turned upside down. I am fianlly telling myself - let him deal with the pain of losing his children and wife.... let him have the women who has no respect for herself , her family, or friends... what is he really gaining????? We have our dignity and our self-respect and always will. Be strong.... follow your heart until you can't anymore.... So sorry - I feel your pain along with mine.... It hurts so bad I can't sleep at night... I think sometimes I will have a heart attach with all the chest pains I get on a daily basis just trying to cope with life.... Don't allow him back into your life like I have unless you are willing to start the games all over again, make sure no contact is there between H and OW.... I wasn't forceful enough on that point and he continues to have contact and make excuses for it....

Dear Madison...I am so sorry that you are going through this also. I realy feel for you and anyone else who has to go through this. He came home from work last night totally different then when he left. Like Dr. Jeckel and Mr Hyde(I hOpe that I spelled that right lol). I just told him that if he wanted to go then that is what he should do. He keps asking me what I want and I tell him not this but if you are expecting me to make this decision for you I can't. Then about an hour later we got into a fight because I just can't seem to do anything right(my thoughts not his) So he packed his stuff and I couldn't help it but I broke down. I really tried not to but in a moment of desperation I lost it. He stayed but God only knows what today will bring. My kids are getting to the same point yours are already at. I just try to tell them that its nothing to do with them. I'm confused also...I think I want him to leave and then when the time comes I don't. I still love my husband with all my heart. I just don't know what to do anymore. Thanks for sharing your story it really helped. I hope that all goes well with you and if you need to talk just write to me. I don't know what good I will be but maybe just the support of someone else who is going through the same thing will help. At this point the fog is so thick with him he can't see what is right in front of his face. Wish I knew the answer. I will just give it to God and hope for the best. Take Care!!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He came home from work last night totally different then when he left. Like Dr. Jeckel and Mr Hyde(I hOpe that I spelled that right lol). I just told him that if he wanted to go then that is what he should do. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good you are starting to stand up for yourself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He keps asking me what I want and I tell him not this but if you are expecting me to make this decision for you I can't.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This would have been a good time to ask him what he sees wrong in your marriage. The hard part is not to get angry with what ever he says and try to validate what he says.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then about an hour later we got into a fight because I just can't seem to do anything right(my thoughts not his)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm confused, you started a fight because of something in your head. Or was this the roller coaster emotions at a low point?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So he packed his stuff and I couldn't help it but I broke down. I really tried not to but in a moment of desperation I lost it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know how that is. It took a month before my wifed moved out even though we both agreed it was the best thing we could do. The worst was helping her pack and both of us crying through the whole time.

This the main reason I believe a Plan B would not work for you. Find out what his EN's and LB's are and start a Plan A.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think I want him to leave and then when the time comes I don't. I still love my husband with all my heart. I just don't know what to do anymore. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do a successful Plan A for at least one month then decide what you want to do. You sound like you still have a positive balance in your Love Bank.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">At this point the fog is so thick with him he can't see what is right in front of his face. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are right that very little can be done until he has 0 contact with this OW. But unless you can be strong not give in during a Plan B it would be useless to do it. Tough Love sucks, but it is usually the only way.

thanks listener...what did you mean by you think I still have a positive in my love bank? I know what that is I am just wondering why you think I am still in the positive...Because lately I have been wondering if the love bank exists at all! I am trying to keep a positive attitude but sometimes I think he is going to need to go just so he can see if he misses us. But when I get the courage to let that happen as soon as he starts to go I lose it. I am just wondering if he will come home from work today and go. It scares me to the point I don't even want to go home. Thanks for helping. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I am an optimist. That is probably part of the reason I believe you Love Bank is still positive.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think he is going to need to go just so he can see if he misses us </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is part of the reason to do a solid Plan A. If he did leave would he have a mostly positve or negative feelings about home?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But when I get the courage to let that happen as soon as he starts to go I lose it </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is why I think your Love Bank is positive. I have not read of to many people on here who willingly let there spouse move out without a negative balance in there Love Bank.

Listener...ok I have a question... Monday night after we had the fight and he was getting ready to leave...he kept shoving me away when I tried to hug him telling me not to touch him. So I told him then just wait until tomorrow to leave and we went to bed...well I asked him to hold me and he asked for what...what difference is it going to make...I said probably none but I just need you to. So he did...I fell asleep crying of course and about an hour later he woke me up(if you know what I mean). So he should have been gone yesterday but he didn't go. What does this mean if anything? And I also wanted to ask how you and your spouse are doing? And when you say to me "your love bank" do you mean me and my husband together or just me? Thanks for guiding me I appreciate it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Listener...ok I have a question... Monday night after we had the fight and he was getting ready to leave...he kept shoving me away when I tried to hug him telling me not to touch him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How was he before the OW showed up? Did he have a problem with hugging and cuddling? More than likely this is the fog, he can not or refuses to see what you need.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So I told him then just wait until tomorrow to leave and we went to bed...well I asked him to hold me and he asked for what...what difference is it going to make...I said probably none but I just need you to. So he did...I fell asleep crying of course and about an hour later he woke me up(if you know what I mean).</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope it was something you wanted/needed and you simply did not give in to appease him. My wife and I had a few nights like that. Both people want to be loved but are afraid to open up.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So he should have been gone yesterday but he didn't go. What does this mean if anything?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There are quite a few things it could mean:
1) He is in withdrawel
2) OW is still in the picture
3) He is afraid to show his true feelings
4) OW is gone, but he is mourning the loss of the relationship, ie fog

I am sure there are others, but it is all based on weather no contact is truely enforced.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And I also wanted to ask how you and your spouse are doing?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are current problem is I do not start any love making. I take her smallest hints and blow them up to be a big fat NO. We have decided to try on our own for another three months then we/I will go see a sex therapist. Other than that, we are having fun. We have the normal issues money, how much time to spend with friends, church, making time for each other. All the normal stuff. So far we are finding a pretty good balance with spending time together since I have flex time at work I simply work the same hours she does.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And when you say to me "your love bank" do you mean me and my husband together or just me? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I mean the amount of love you feel for your husband.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Thanks for guiding me I appreciate it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are welcome. I hope I am helping!?

Dear Listener...You are helping very much because I am having a very hard time reading my husband and knowing exactly how he feels. I know he is confused because he seems to want to leave at one point and then doesn't. As for you and your wife, I know how you feel about taking everything the wrong way. Just this morning I tried to initiate love making and I asked him if it was ok and he said that he would like it if I would just rub his back for a while...boy did I take that personal! But then again I am a very emotional person. If he doesn't want to makelove or anything theni really get bad. Before I used to say something sarcastic but now I seem to have that under control. I keep thinking that maybe I shouldn't be so persisitent...then he might stop and think.

Boy, this is sure a tough situation to be in! I never know how I am supposed to act anymore, I never know what is the right thing to say. i think he could just be in amazement that I didn't react to the way he took off this weekend in the manner he thought that I was going to. But at this point nothing he does seems to amaze me so why get all upset. I guess I am just getting used to it. Well anyway he was acting a little strangely last night. Instead of doing his normal routine of coming in and getting coffee and heading straight for the bathroom. He stood around like he was waiting for something. Then he would go and talk to the kids(something he hasn't done in a while) and then he started talking to my son about how we had to take our normal summer trip next year because we didn't this year. Doesn't make any sense.

So I didn't know how to take that. He doesn't seem to want to talk to me much. I had him laughing at one point then the next it semed like he was ignoring me. Just can't seem to figure that one out. My love bank will always be full, I said for better or worse and that's what I meant. And this is not the only challenge we have had in our marriage. There were other issues also. We have gone through alot together in the last 17 yrs. and we made it. I am just hoping that we make it through this. I hope that you are able to overcome this obstacle with your wife. The affair did the opposite with me it seems I can't get enough. Well anymore thoughts, let me know. Thanx

For my wife because I do not initiate love making she does not feel bueatiful or desirable. But I will give her flowers and cards, about once a month. And we cuddle for half an hour to an hour a day. I just can't for some reason go that last step <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . Right now it is really bad for her since I have had that cold for 6 weeks now so kissing does not exist and cuddling does not last long since I either have a coughing fit or have to go blow my nose. Finally went to the doctors to get an antibiotic.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Boy, this is sure a tough situation to be in! I never know how I am supposed to act anymore, I never know what is the right thing to say </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The Policy of Radical Honesty Basically say what is on your heart without Love Busting . Very hard to do, but with pratice it does get easier.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Well anyway he was acting a little strangely last night. Instead of doing his normal routine of coming in and getting coffee and heading straight for the bathroom. He stood around like he was waiting for something. Then he would go and talk to the kids(something he hasn't done in a while) and then he started talking to my son about how we had to take our normal summer trip next year because we didn't this year. Doesn't make any sense.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sounds like he poked his head out of the fog <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . Now all you need is a plan to drag him out of the fog.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My love bank will always be full, I said for better or worse and that's what I meant </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know what you mean. This is how I am also.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And this is not the only challenge we have had in our marriage. There were other issues also. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So are these issues coming back? How do you know that he feels about these old issues?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I hope that you are able to overcome this obstacle with your wife. The affair did the opposite with me it seems I can't get enough</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually this is an old problem. It is the whole reason the EA started with her. I did the stereo typical thing and stoped courting my wife after I won her. I was a complete IDIOT. One thing Jennifer Harley made us do was to keep a journal. The only thing allowed in the journal was what did we do that day to make a positive Love Bank Deposit. I was amazed how many days went by without an entry. Now every few months I do this for a week to make sure I am doing what I am suppose to.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well anymore thoughts, let me know. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course I do <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> .

Have you filled out the The Emotional Needs Questionnaire (ENQ) and Love Busters Questionnaire (LBQ) yet????? If not why not? It is great for starting conversations. Have you ever read the book Five Love Languages of Gary Chapman? If you can not tell yet I am a firm believer in how the Harleys view marriage <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hi Listener...I believe the thing you said about the fog...Last night we had a function to go to at my kids school and then we went out to eat afterwards...we had a family night which is something that hasn't happened in a long time...It turned out good! I found out yesterday that he is still seeing her...by checking his phone records. Talk about a day!!! but after we all came home he seemed different. I was taking my bath and he did something he hasn't done in a very long time...he sat and watched and told me how beautiful I was...then I asked if he was going to get rid of me and he said"I didn't say that" so if I could just create more things that he and I alone have to do and that we have to do with the kids I think the fog will lift some more. The questionaires I don't think would help at the moment because he is so deep in the fog that I don't think he can see right in front of him. So I don't think he would fill it out. I will then maybe I could get some idea of what to do from here.

As for your situation I think I am in the same boat...because of our hectic life I got lost in all the every day stuff and I quit doing alot of the things I used to also. So I think this is what started all this with my husband. I guess now I just have to sit back and wait and just keep filling his love bank. Well I have to go to work now...if I can even concentrate on work..I have been having a hard time doing that. Thanx-I am so glad that I have you to talk to...otherwise i think that I would lose my mind.

Glad to hear you had a great evening! That is what Plan A is all about.

So are you going to start keeping some kind of journal? For me at least it helped alot. Actually I probably should start it back up for a few weeks.

Question: Has he promised no contact yet? Telling the other person is not good enough he really does need to write a letter you both approve of. Heck some people have even both signed it, though I am not sure if that is a good idea.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">he sat and watched and told me how beautiful I was...then I asked if he was going to get rid of me and he said"I didn't say that" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is this a female thing. My wife still will take a complement and twist it. It stead of saying thank you she will say thank you, but I am still fat or my nose is to big or my hair is not done. Just take it and enjoy it. She has gotton better. Okay rant over.

Listener LOL!!! i can take a compliment but I think that I mentioned that I found out yesterday that he is still seeing her after he told me he wasn't. Third time of telling me that. So i told him on the phone that he had to get rid of her or me. So that is why I asked if he was getting rid of me. I think that I may take my son and go to stay with my sister back home. I was thinking about running that by my husband tonight. What do you think? If I go I do not plan to come back. I come from a different state then I live in now far from where I am. So this would be a permanent step on my part. I think that I have hit rock bottom. I still love my husband more than words can ever say...but I can't take much more.

I think that I am getting depressed. I can't take antidepressants i have a VERY bad reaction to them which is a whole other story in itself! What do you think about me leaving? Do you think if I mentioned that he would come to his senses? At this point probably not. Well let me know what yu think. Thanx:)

In all honesty I think a Plan B is to soon. But you have hit rock bottom then yes you should start Plan B. But you must decide what criterea must be satisfied before you get back together. DO a search for Plan B letters.

Does your state have any lays against taking children to another state with out the other spouse knowing? Don't want you to get in any legal problems.

well...here we go again...His mother talked to the other woman today and she said that my husband is supposed to be moving in with her. News to me! she said he told her that he is almost done packing. He has been packed for 4 days and has gone no-where. I asked him last night if he was getting rid of me and he said"I didn't say that" But she also told his mother that someone needs to tell him he has to choose one or the other...so I think that she is worried...what do you think? Anyway he is not home and it is 12:04 am didn't come home from work. I am not that upset what does that mean?

I am going to act as if nothing is wrong. I told him that I am not going to kick him out..that he will have to leave when he wants to. I will not be responsible for this whole mess! He is not going to be able to tell people that I kicked him out and make it my fault. Well let me know your opinion...I am going to go to bed have to work in the am. Take care...