RW - I think this might post twice because I hit the wrong key, but anyway . . . How are you doing? I can't remember from your previous posts, but is your wife in any sort of therapy? From a woman's perspective, it sounds to me like she really needs counseling to deal with some of her conflicts. Although your support is important, there is some serious stuff that has been going on for a while now and a professional should be helping as well. Do you agree?

MP, all things considered...I am doing quite well! Thanks for asking. How are you? I am sorry to hear about your mother. That news is never welcome...but I know it's got to be particularly hard on top of what you are dealing with in your marriage.

This is a great opportunity for your husband to put his money where his mouth is. You need his love and support now more than ever. He needs to step up. And..he needs to do whatever it takes to convince you that the affair is OVER and that there has been no more communication. You don't need those worries on top of everything else.

Is there anything he can do at this point to put your mind at ease?

One other thing: I think when you are dealing with your spousem the question that you have to ask yourself is whether your goal is punishment or a better marriage. Believe me, I know how tempting it is to let that anger out on your spouse. We feel really hurt...our spouses should feel some of that pain as well.

If you believe your husband is remorseful, then try really hard not to crucify him. Instead, tell him clearly that he can make amends by DEMONSTRATING his love and loyalty to you - and that he can start today by being honest about contact and by holding your hand as you support your mother.

Hi MP,

Saw your post about the possibility of a polygraph. That was the turning point for my H. He was still denying that any sex occurred in his 2 month affair (or "unfair" as some put it which I think is the better term). He said he would take a polygraph so I lined one up. He knew I was serious and it was then, and only then, the I got the whole truth about the "A" and the sex! F.W.I.W. -SNS

RW,

I am sorry to hear about your situation. I'm not sure what to say, as I am still fairly new to this myself.

It does seem, though, that your wife has a very deep need for...something. Have you two done the emotional needs questionaires yet? We found them pretty helpful.

My wife, I've discovered, has a very deep need to be in love. Since I've let her inside...she's showered me with love and attnetion. And I think, "Man, was I ever a fool! I could have had this all along!" One thing that works in my favor: my wife claims that she can't be in love with two people at once. So..if she's really in love with me, the OM is toast.

I agree with MP that your wife probably needs some therapy. But..I also think that you need to get her to committ to ending ALL contact with these men. If that means changing the phone number..so be it.

One of hte reasons you are having trouble going forward, I think, is that you are always force to look over your shoulder.

Deal with the no contact issue first.

hey all - how are you doing? Pretty tough day. I spent it at the doctors with my mom trying to get things sorted out. Looks like she'll need surgery first before other treatments. Anyway, my H is considering the polygraph, but he feels it might render innacurate results just because of how nervous he will be. I think it is BS. The more I think about it, and now hearing how it worked for you SNS, the more I think it is a great idea.
Andrew - you posed an interesting question - is my goal to crucify or to create a better marriage. Unfortunately right now, I would have to say my answer is to crucify and cause him pain. It horrifies me because I really am a nice person. He has turned me into a suspicious, paranoid and nasty person. Not someone I want to be. It's so sad because right now is a time that I need him most and I will not let myself turn to him for any kind of support. I even go to friends first in terms of helping with the kids. Luckily I have a few great and helpful friends.
I know you guys say you are still so angry yet you don't seem to punish your W/H on a constant basis. Any suggestions as to what to do instead of hurling insults at my H? I could use a little peace for myself and for my family right now. Hope all of you okay and once again thanks for all of your good advice. MP

MP,

How was the weekend? Good, I hope! I don't really have any more advice on how to top "hurling insults" at your husband, other than the stuff I've already suggested. It's very tempting to crucify your spouse in a situation like this, because it really does make you feel better. It doesn't help you move ahead, though. I know you know that. For the sake of your marriage, you are probably simply going to have to bite your tongue. That sucks...but it's the reality.

One of the ironic things about my situation, which might be a bit like yours, is that my wife always said that she had a clear standard: "no cheating and no beating." Either of those things, she said, would end the marriage. Period. Well...she cheated, and what do I do? Work hard to get her back and to move things forward. But..I can't help feeling a bit bitter. Because, by the standard SHE laid out, if I had done this...there apparently would have been no working it out.

I have a couple of questions for you:

How long have you been married? Were there any significant issues in your marriage that appear to have led to this point? Has your husband ended contact with the OW? Oh..and how is your mom doing?

hi Andrew - how was your weekend? Mine was okay. My H and I had a long talk Sat. night, and again on Sun. night. He was begging me to just give him a chance to make things better. He has been doing all the right things to try, but I have not been receptive to them. Last night, for the first time since D-Day, I let him hold me while we went to sleep. I cried a lot because of course I thought of him with the OW, but he did everything to comfort me and finally it worked. I must say it was nice and I was much less angry most of today. Up to this point I've barely let him talk to me, let alone touch me. Anyway it is a start. I know he is very appreciative. I still feel strongly about him taking the polygraph and we are still discussing it. I don't think he is contact with the OW but there may have been a phone call. He swears there has been nothing, and I have no real reason to believe there has been, but I guess I am still suspicious.
It's funny you say the thing about no cheating, no beating. Cousins of mine were recently divorced and while neither party discussed the actual casue, they both just said there was no cheating and no beating. I had never heard that before. What does your W say about the fact that it was her standard? She is lucky you are more forgiving. I never really got the background on your wife and her A, i.e. how long did it last, someone from work, any contact after D-Day, etc...
I have been married for 12 years and have 3 children. I would say there were no significant issues in the marriage, just typical everyday stuff that most married couples have. That's one of the reasons it was such a huge shock. As far as I could tell, and even as far as my H says, we were not a couple on the verge of divorce, not even close. He swears we will have a much better marriage than before if I only give him the chance. Is that really possible???
Thanks for asking about my mom. We have more Dr. appt's on Thursday, so I will know more than. Your concern is greatly appreciated. I am interested in how your situation is going, it always gives me hope. talk to you soon. MP

MP,

It sounds liek you are making some progress and letting your H back in a little. That's good! Hopefully, he will do the things he needs to do to regain your trust. Keep trying to put the anger aside. And..keep thanking every day for maintaining his no contract agreement. Let him know clearly how important that is to you and to your marriage.

I was interested to hear that were no real issues in your marriage. Have you and your husband done the emotional needs assements that are available on this site?

My W and I did them a couple of weeks ago, and the results were very interesting. One thing to talk to hubby about is what needs he thinks the OW filled that weren't getting filled in his marriage. That has to be SOME reason that he strayed, right? My hunch is that you will find that your H has a need for admiration. I think that is the biggest unrecognized and unfulfilled need among men.

My wife had a ONS and a brief EA with her best friend's husband while that friend was out of the country. I found out about a month ago. My wife dropped the OM that day and she says that she has experienced no withdrawl at all. She is certainly working very hard to try to get my trust back. Our relationship has also gotten a lot more open. We talk alomost daily about our needs and feelings. We also try to make time to be together as a couple - late dinners and lunch together, for instnace. Before, that togetherness time got lost in the shuffle of taking care of the kids.

I brought up the irony of the "cheating-beating' thing to my wife...and she didn't have much to say, except that she probably WOULD have reacted differently than I did and that she's not sure if she would want to fix the marriage.

Hopefully, the news on your mom will be good. Keep us posted.

Andrew -
We are definitely making progress. I finally know what you are all saying when you say good days, bad days. Prior to this breakthrough, I had no good days. Calmer ones, but not good ones. I have definitely been less angry and full of rage towards him. This morning, I sensed a little distance from him, so today has not been as good a day. So I think I better understand the good day-bad day thing. Where would I find the emotional needs assessments on this site. I would like to do it with him.
I agree with your statement about the admiration. For my H it was that along with the feeling of not being wanted or needed. I think all 3 fall in the same category.
Your situation sounds like mine. The daily shuffle took away from our time. We never made time for us. Since my oldest was born, we have never been away by ourselves. 10 years!! Do you find that making the time now has made a difference? I would think it would make a big one. I was surprised by your W's reaction to the cheating/beating comment. It appears that she is working hard to make this work, why would she say she's not sure she would want to fix it.
This is really hard work, huh? When did we sign up for this? I'm going to try and find the assessment now - have a good day! MP

MP,

Here is the link to the Emotional Needs Questionnaire. It helped us a lot in terms of understanding exactly what the other person needed - and HOW they needed it.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4501_enq.html

I am glad to hear that you are making progress. Hopefully, the good days will start to outnumber the bad. The key is that you and your husband continue to talk openly. He needs to understnad that you will meet his needs. But he also has to understand that you expect HIM to work WITH you to re-build the marriage. He has to be willing to meet your needs as well - and your biggest need at this point is probably for honesty and security. He should bend over backwards to help you regain the trust you had in him.

Our decision to carve out more time to be together has worked wonders for our relationship. And..the interesting thing is that we've found it to be not terribly hard to do. For instance, we get up together each morning now. Then, we'll have coffee and read the paper together before the kids get up. We also shower together each morning <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Here's something kind of simple that we have started doing that has worked well: private dinners. Basically, twice a week we will cook for the kids, and then sit with them at the table as they eat. After they are in bed (8:30 or so) we'll set the table nicely, light some candles, put on a bit of music and cook a meal together. It's pretty romantic and simple...and there is no need for a babysitter.

We also go out together every Friday now - it's set in stone. And..my wife comes to lunch with me near my office once a week. The other part of our togetherness plan that has worked well is a family cellphone plan. I'd never had one before. But...now I wish I had gotten one sooner, because we are able to talk a lot and feel very connected.

As for when we signed up for this...I guess it was the "for better or for worse" part. It doesn't get much worse than this. Hopefully, it will get much better.

Hang in there! I hope mom is feeling better!

<small>[ November 17, 2004, 08:39 AM: Message edited by: AndrewA ]</small>

Andrew - thanks for the link. I printed it out. I showed it to my H and we are going to find some time to do it together. Sounds like you have really made time to be together with your W which is so great. I actually met my H for lunch today. I think it is the first time I have ever done that. It was nice. Things are really going better. Besides the lie detector thing, he is being great. He says he just wants to speak to the MC about it first. He is seeing her alone tomorrow as I will be with my mom at the Dr. Hopefully he will agree to it after their meeting.
Thanks for all of your togetherness ideas. They sound easy to follow and we will certainly give it a try. I can't believe how I have made this turnaround in a matter of days. I'm not really sure how it happened but it sure as hell beats feeling the way I did.
If you don't mind me asking, what's your MC situation and if you are going do you go together each time and how often. I am trying to work all of this out and would like your input. Thanks again. Have a good night. MP

MP,

I'm glad the link helped. You may want to do the Love Buster questionnaire also. That one is here:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4502_lbq.html

I am glad to hear that things are going better for you. Im not sure how it happens, either. But..I think the key is that your husband is sincere in his remorse and in his desire to work with you to re-build the marriage. Refresh my memory on the polygraph issue: it's related to the no contact issue, right? You aren't quite convinced that he has given up the OW?

We went to MC once, a few days after D-Day. I think it was helpful, mostly because we were able to see that the situation wasn't hopeless and that we could have a future together. We haven't been back mostly because we have been able to talk about issues - both those related to the affair and t very openly and honestly. We haven't hit a "wall" yet. Maybe we are fooling ourselves. But...we've focused a lot of our effort on togetherness. Having said that..I am planning to start IC soon, mostly to deal with some lingering stuff from the past that likely helped bring our marriage to the point it was at immediately prior to the affair. (It wasn't 'bad,' but..there was a lot of emotional distance.)

MP, a couple of more questions for you:

Do you know who the OW is? Is she married? And if so, have you told her husband?

Hi guys,

MP so sorry to read about your mother. I hope she is doing well and will continue to do so. Glad you're making progress. I don't know how firm you are on the polygraph, but for me it was a deal breaker. My H and I both have careers in fields which utilize lie detectors tests. I know they are accurate and reliable. My H tried to get out of it by telling me he was afriad the test would show he was being dishonest when he was really only nervous. My reply to him was if you've told me everything and have nothing to hide, you have nothing to be nervous about. An experienced examiner can tell the difference between deception and nervousness anyway. It was only when my H realized that I wasn't giving up on the polygraph that he broke down and told me everything. Now, every man is different just as every affair is different, but that was the case with my H. He was terrified to tell me about the sex b/c he knew I'd file for divorce. I finally told him his only hope at any chance of saving this marriage was to come clean with the truth b/c if he failed even one question on the polygraph it was over. He had been stringing me along for 2 weeks since D-Day and still wasn't telling me the whole truth. He knew he'd fail it b/c he knew he'd had sex with her, so he told me the truth. It was like another D-Day all over again. Any ground we'd gained in those two weeks was wiped out in an instant simply b/c for two agonizing weeks he had still been telling me lies to my face with tears streaming down his!

I hope you're able to reach some resolution whether your H takes the polygraph or not. For me, I just couldn't give in on that one b/c my H had told me so many lies I couldn't believe a word out of his mouth (no matter how sincere he looked or how honest and remorseful he sounded). Remember my H is the one who swore on a bible on the lives of our two children that he hadn't cheated; told me he never slept with her but if I wanted him to admit to something he didn't do just b/c I was convinced he did it then he would; and told me he was proud of the fact that he never had sex with her b/c that way it could always remain something sacred and just between us in the marriage!!!

-SNS

Hi guys - back from the doctors today. Nothing much new, she will require some major surgery, (scheduled for mid-Dec) but the outlook is good after that. Thanks for the good thoughts!
Andrew - to answer your questions, the OW is not married. It was someone he had contact with while both of them were out of the state for a long term project. He swears that there has been NO contact, but I have a nagging feeling there may have been something. It could be as little as a phone call or email, or it could be more. I highly doubt it, but after what we have all been through, I don't doubt anything anymore. That is why I wanted the polygraph - just to guarantee he was telling the truth about no contact these past 5 months. He went to MC by himself today but I have not had a chance to hear how it went. I think he should go for some IC, just as you are, to deal with some of his own stuff.
The last few days have been so good. I really can't figure out why I made this turnaround, but it's been great. I feel like a different person, even though I still have many sad moments, the anger has lifted enormously.
SNS - I know how important you think the lie detector test is and I agree. Somehow I have managed to move on without it, but it certainly would put my mind at ease. He was supposed to discuss it and its accuracy with the MC today, so hopefully he will fill me in later. I think I will share with him what you told me about it. We have never had any reason to utilize them before and are unsure of their accuracy. How are things with you guys now? Moving forward?
We are actually heading out of town for the weekend for a family event (his family - UUGGGHHHH!!), but I have agreed to go. I will talk with you when I return. Hope you all have a good weekend.

Hi MP,

Glad to hear you're doing better. I'm like you, I can't really put a finger on how or when things started to turn around for me, but it does feel better once you realize you're headed in the right direction. My H and I are doing well. No bad days since my last post about having a bad day. You know 12/6 will be 5 months post D-Day for us. The time is flying by it seems. With the Holidays coming, I am optimistic about all of our futures! Take care and have a safe trip, SNS

<small>[ March 08, 2005, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: Still-n-Shock ]</small>

hi there - back from a long weekend with all the in-laws! Still YUCK! Things are going pretty well here. I think the biggest difference is that we are talking so much now. As soon as something comes up, we talk about it and it is really helping. I keep saying I am scared when I am going to do a 360 again, but for right now it is okay. Weird!!! I feel like if everything doesn't stay just right, I am going to back out of this. I keep telling him this has to be great between us because if it's not, it isn't worth it. I know he feels the pressure of it always being perfect and I know that is unrealistic, but I still believe when you start to move forward, you have to make it really great. Just curious, when you guys started moving forward, how long was it before the first big fallout. Still no progress with the polygraph, but I haven't given up completely. Anyway, how are you guys doing? Hope everyone is progressing nicely. Hope to hear from you before the holiday, but if not, have a happy Thanksgiving. MP

MP,

I'm glad that things are going better for you! You've hit on what I think is the biggest change for us as well: we're a lot more open about everything. There are no issues that come up now that we don't talk about and deral with right away. And..both of us are getting a lot better at talking about our needs and our feelings. I know what you mean about worrying what will happen if everything isn't perfect. I think it's something that we all deal with. There is a lot of eggshell walking that goes on. By the way...it might be time for you to move on to the "In Recovery" folder. There is a lot of good information and support there.

hi there - how are you doing? What is the "in recovery" folder? Can it be found on the website? I really had planned on going back to all the books I read in the beginning, but with my mom - I just didn't have the time. Hopefully, this week I can look back to some of that info. Things are still okay here. I know I sound surprised each time I say it, but I really am. I made a bold move yesterday and bought both of us new wedding bands. I thought that would be a nice gesture. My H had never really worn his and after the A decided he wanted to. I was of course sickened by the thought of that, so maybe new ones will work for us. I am of course still suspicious of everything, even though I really don't need to be, I just feel it is in me now. Something that will take a lot of time to change. I guess that is part of recovery, feeling suspicious but still being able to move forward and not letting it control you. I hope all is well there and that you and your family have a very happy Thanksgiving. MP

Hi MP,

Here is the link to the "In Recovery" folder. In Recovery You'll find a lot of good discussion and support there.

As far as being suspicious: I think that is natural at this point. I like to call my approach "trust, but verify." In otehr words, while I believe that my wife is telling the truth when she says there has been no contact..I am still keeping my eyes open and checking out things that seem suspicious or odd.

I was interested to learn that your H didn't wear his ring much prior to the A. Was there a partciular reason for that? Did it bother you at the time? My wife and I discussed the ring issue, also. I have mixed feelings. She told me that she took her ring off during sex with the OM. I think that makes a difference...though it also suggests that she was aware that what she was doing was wrong. We're planning to have a real wedding next year - we eloped the first time - and I think we will get new rings then. What did your H say about the new ring?