Hello MP,

How are you? I'm doing pretty well compared to the last few weeks. H went to class on Monday night and OW wasn't there, so that was good. He took me out to dinner tonight. It was nice to enjoy a quiet meal without the children (a rare event for us).

Thoughts of the A pop into my head quiet often throughout the day - everyday, but today I was pretty busy so I was able to brush it off pretty well. You know how they say a man thinks about sex X amount of times every minute...? Well, sometimes it feels like that is how often thoughts of H's A and OW pop into my head on some days. I think it would be easier to understand if she was 23 years old, incredibly beautiful with an amazingly hot body. The fact that she is a 34 year old single mom with 3 illegimate children by 3 different men, not ugly but certainly not a knock out, not in great shape & doesn't work out, has had numerous sex partners that she willingly brags about, has basically a minimum wage job, etc..., etc..., etc... makes it very hard to understand what a low point in his life he found himself and for really no good and rational reason. How he'd fall into bed with that just b/c she paid him a few compliments and thought he was so great. I can't believe he was that shallow. I mean what girl in that situation wouldn't think just about any man was great??? She's looking for someone to lighten her load and she's looking for sex b/c not many sane available men would want to marry someone with all of that baggage! I mean if she was that hot, the single men would be kicking her door down, but they are the ones chasing the hot 20 somethings... she's a has been that has to move in on married men b/c that is all she can get.

Okay, I rambled again. So sorry about that. This post was intended to be more upbeat and positive. How are things at your end? How is your Mom? The MD? Talk to you soon!! -SNS

hi - glad to hear you had a nice dinner out. It makes you feel good, doesn't it? I am also glad she is not in his class. That will make it easier for you when he has to be at school. Things here are not so great. As you said, thoughts of the A pop into my head constantly and I just can't shake it. When I am busy it helps, but not enough.

Mom is okay, a slow but steady recovery. Saw the MD today. Of course I had to get dressed in a cute outfit for the Dr. visit. Who knew we would wait 6 hours to see all 3 doctors. The tight jeans did not make the wait any easier!!!

I feel like you that I wish I could devote all my thoughts and energy into my mom, my kids, my friends, and even my marriage (pre-A). Unfortunately, he had to go and ruin all that. Now more than half of my energy is devoted to anger and rage. What a crazy way to live life. I'm not saying I was soooo happy before, but I don't think I will ever really be able to find happiness with him again. Despite the fact he is trying to be a perfect H, I just don't feel I can trust him, nor am I inclined to give him a second chance. Why does he deserve it??? Do you feel the same way?

I wish I had answers for us. I have been looking through the books, but all I am finding is non-useful info. Sometimes I wonder if the people who write this stuff ever went through an A, because if they did, there is no way they would be able to move forward. You and I both know the hurt is too great to just move on. Anyway, I must get back to the kids. Just wanted to say hi. Talk to you soon! MP

Hello MP,

Well last night was six months to the day that my H walked out without a word or even a backward glance and went over to the OW's house to "end it". That was our D-Day. Needless to say yesterday and today haven't been great for me. I don't feel nearly as bad as I did on D-Day, but I don't feel too optimistic either for someone who is 6 months post-D-Day.

Like you, I really don't feel like my H deserves a second chance either. I'm here b/c of my children pure and simple. If we had no children, we'd have no marriage! No ifs, ands or buts about it. Sometimes I feel like it isn't 'if' we're going to get a divorce, but 'when' (like when the children are older and can handle and understand it better). Funny thing is, my H does not want a divorce and has never wanted a divorce. I'm the one who has never been happy. His answer to my unhappiness was to have an A instead of changing the things that were making me unhappy. Now, post-A, he's "seen the light" and is a "changed man". He is doing everything I wanted him to do for 10 years pre-A w/out so much as a word from me. He is the perfect H. Problem is, I don't really give a sh*t any more. It is so ironic that my H loves me more than I love him ( I think he always has ) which is bizzare I know, considering he is the one that had the A, but true nonetheless.

I'm glad to hear your mom is on the road to recovery. You made me laught about the MD and the tight jeans. You can always make me laugh. I like that (and look forward to that) about you! -SNS

Hello everyone,

The last time I posted a reply, I told you guys about my H affair, that they ended it and that I took him back after just 1 1/2 weeks. Had this urge to get his cell phone statement (which I now get on a daily basis), well guess what, he sms'd her 12 times yesterday and allready twice this morning (that I know of). I am not going to confront him about it yet, going to watch it for a weeks - I am also getting her cellphone account and itemised billing this afternoon, she defenitely replies as there are only a few minutes between the next sms. Now I ask myself - he could be innocent, she could be the one sms'ing him all the time, but then WHY does he not tell me about it. when I took him back i made it very clear that there will be NO contact between them. He dropped me off at work this morning and only 14 minutes after he dropped me off he sent her the first sms. It is so bad that he even sends her messages while i am at home (the 05/01/2005) at 22:06, i was in the house and he was in bed.....
What shall i do if I confront him and he tells me they are only friends, could this possibly be true, must i accept this or do you guys thing something is going on again?
this is really frustrating me as i thought we would be able to work this out, but he is obviously not serious.... Am I right?
Guys I really want your opinion, so please do post a reply.
Thanks.
rene.

Rene,

NO contact means NO contact. Period. Don't accept the "just friends" ploy.

It doesn't really matter WHO is contacting WHOM. If there is contact and your H isn't telling you about it..there is a problem.

Rene,

Well, I went back and read your posts. This OW is your future SIL correct? Does your brother know that your H and his fiance are still in contact? You and your brother need to be on the same Detective team. What does "sms" mean? Are they using their cell phones to send text messages to one another? Is there any way you can get copies of these text messages? I think you can register the cell phone account on the internet and read the text messages on-line.

Can you hide a voice activated tape recorder in your H's car? Can you hire a private investigator? What is your ultimate goal? What if you discover that they are having a full blown affair?

I hate to say this to you (again) but are you absolutely sure these two haven't had sex? They are liars and cheaters after all and they did both promise to break it off and they are keeping it up behind your back. If they haven't had sex, it is probably only a matter of time before they do. All they're doing now is being sneakier and trying harder to keep you from finding out. I don't think she is the one doing all of the contacting. Even if she texted him first, he could (1) not reply to her message, and (2) show you everything she send to him. If he were ignoring here, there would not be 15+ entries back and forth. I know you don't want it to be true but you can't deny something that is right in front of your face.

You asked in your first post if you took your H back too soon. What do you think?

Sorry if I sound harsh, but if you've been reading all of my posts in this thread you probably see that I'm having a very hard time letting my H stay after what he has done. If I didn't have two small children he'd be gone so fast his head would still be spinning. I would never fight with any woman for any man. On the night of our D-Day I packed H's bags and kicked him out. I told him he was free to call her and she could come pick him up. She could have his sorry a$$. He was crying and begging me to please not throw him out. Men want what they can't have, plain and simple. He dumped her. NO withdrawals, no "I need to think", no "I want you both", no "I love you but I'm not in love with you" crap... none of that WS fog babble. I changed the locks the next day and by the thrid day I had a separation agreement drawn up at the lawyer's office. My H knew I was not joking. He saw the light and he was terrified! His pity party ended very quickly.

Now I know that is certainly not Plan A, probably more of a very harsh Plan B, but that is who I am and that is I what I did. I don't believe in cheating. I don't care what your marital problems are, cheating is never a solution. People who cheat are selfish and weak and have low morals and I can't stomach it. If my H ever so much as crosses that line, we're through and he knows it. I know I am different from a lot of women, so my way is probably not the way most women would chose to handle it, but I am the way I am.

Only you know your H and what you feel for him and what approach would work best for you. Do you love him no matter what? Can you forgive and forget? Do you want to fight for him no matter what has happened between him and this OW? Your marriage is your business and no one should judge you for how you handle it. In the end, it is you that has to live with the outcome - whether it be reconciliation or divorce. Your brother, on the other hand, should run as fast as he can and never, ever look back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It makes me sick how people feel entitled to enter into a relationship with a married person and feel no sense of responsibility to that person's spouse! Does anyone value the sanctity of marriage any longer? It is laughable how the OP will say, "My relationship is with him/her, not his/her wife/husband." Unbelievable!" I wish I could be a fly on the wall on their Judgment Day when they start spilling that garbage to their God. -SNS

Well I must add my 2 cents in . . . There is no way these 2 are not having a PA as well as an EA. Two grown adults who are interested in one another always leads to SEX. It is just the way it is.
How are you able to get her cell phone records. Every time I have tried to get copies on my own I was told I needed a subpoena. You have all the proof you need, he is LYING to you. Why let him live there when you know this already.
Just like SNS said, it depends how you feel about him. Do you want to make it work with him? If so, there needs to be NO contact. Nothing at all. How could you possibly stay with him knowing what you know, without telling him. I don't think I could do that. He needs to be called out on this. Unless you want to wait until it does go further which it will undoubtedly do. Keep us posted, and let us know what you decide to do. We've been there and it stinks, but you need to expose this A. MP

sns - you there? I know things have been hard lately, just wanted to make sure you were okay. Hopefully you (and Andrew too) are just so busy you don't have time for MB, a place none of us should have ever even heard of. Anyway, hope everything is okay. MP

Hi MP,

Yes I'm still here. January 6th was exactly six months post D-Day for me. I posted about it but it was right b/4 Rene's post and I think my post was missed b/c we both responded to her. I'm better today than I was on the day I wrote that entry. It sure is painful and still a hard pill to swallow though.

How about you? How are you coping these days? Do you still have your friends from Florida living with you? Are they moving to your area permanently?

My little one is doing well adjusting to the preschool program and will be evaluated soon for occupational and physical therapy, so I am happy about that. Once that hurdle is behind us, I'll advoctae for a speech and language assessment. Atleast that part of my life is going well for now.

I have a meeting tomorrow to discuss getting a subpoena for the hotel record(s) and phone records. I know it will set us back, but I feel like I want to have that evidence filed away incase somewhere down the road my H loses his mind (again) and decides to d*ck me over in the future! I thought about getting the phone records, but not looking at them (since I know if I look at them we will have a huge fight over what I find), but I know me well enough to know that if I get them, I will most certainly look at them. I'll know more tomorrow re: what all is involved in getting them and whether or not it is worth the endeavor. Hope to hear from you soon. -SNS

I'm so intrigued about the phone records. Who is your meeting with, your lawyer? I am so desperate to get HER phone records. I know there will be nothing on my H's cell. If there has been any communication, she would have called him at work and vice versa, but probably from her cell. I need her social sec. # to get them and I'm not sure how to get it. I don't even know if a PI would be able to get it. I'm a lawyer, I should at least know how to access this stuff! Please tell me more about it because I am so anxious to get the past few months. I tell hiim all the time and I truly believe - if I could be sure there has been no communication since the summer, I would feel so much better about moving forward.

Our friends are still here with us. They are from town, just moving to a bigger house that isn't ready yet. It is still kind of crazy around here.

No MC this week because I need to take my mom to a Dr. I don't even know if it helps or not, but he still wants to go. He went out last night to get ice cream for himself and my friend and I. Of course, that turned into a huge thing since he has basically never left the house for dessert in the 15 years we've been together. I accused him of leaving to go make a phone call. He says he was just trying to do something nice. It's so hard to believe anything he says now.

I'm glad the issues with your child are working out. At least it's one less thing to think about. I too am struggling with whether or not to send my little one to K next year and have been going to meetings, etc. to decide whether he is ready or if we need one more year of pre-school. As we always say, I wish these were the only issues we had to deal with - it would make it a lot easier. I find my worst times are when I am driving alone and when I wake up in the middle of the night or too early and can't fall back to sleep. That is when my mind is at its worst. Anyway, enough rambling. Please fill me in about the phone records. I'd kill to get my hands on OW's. Take care - MP

MP,

Do you know here phone number and address?

MP,

Yes, my meeting today was with a friend/lawyer in private practice. I can get H's phone records. In my state you can't file suit for allienation of affection. However, OW works for a public agency, so if she was using a phone issued to her by her employer, I could likewise do a public records request for her phone records.

I know H is finished with her. He ended the A the night he walked out of here. He wanted out b/c of his guilt and b/c he didn't like her as a human being. His decision to end it with her was not influenced by a D-Day. If he hadn't left here to go end it, I would have never known about the A. He said he knew by him leaving like that it would all come out. He couldn't just come out and confess, but he knew by disappearing like that, the truth would have to come out. He went over there and ended it. When he came home and was face to face with me, he couldn't tell me the truth. In my heart I knew. I kicked him out that night despite his pleas and denials. I have absolutley no fear about her, he is done with her. However, now that he has cheated, I will never again feel secure in his fidelity!

Did your H's OW know his wife was a lawyer? She was terrified on D-Day when H confessed and told me her name, place of employment, phone # and address, etc... She told him, "I can't believe you told her who I am! You told her everything about me! I would never do that to you! You threw me under the bus..." Like he somehow owed her more loyalty and allegance than he owed his own wife! Unbelievable. He knew her 3 months and me 10 years!

As for SSN's and other information, have you tried various internet sites? I have a wealth of information on H's OW. I know more about her than she'd want anyone to know!!!

-SNS

<small>[ March 08, 2005, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: Still-n-Shock ]</small>

Hi guys, it's been a while since I last logged in, well where do I start? Let's see as you guys know I registered my H and OW telephones (cell) on the vodacom4me site, it was pretty easy from there on, I could check on their statements daily, it always shows you the latest 10 calls or sms's. I have printing them and keeping them for the last 9 days. Last night I told my H that my brother still seems to think that something is going on between him and his fiancee, he denied it, I then asked him whether they have any contact, he then said NO, I then told him that he was lying to me, he got quite upset, I then asked him again and he said NO again, I then showed him the statements. He actually studied them - trying to pretend I suppose. He then confessed, but like I thought he would, he told me that they were only friends and that they haven't seen each other. I then told him that I could read the sms's (which i cant, took a chance) and asked him why he told her he loved her if they were only friends? His reply : "I dont know", busted once again !

I then camly told him that he must please pack his bags and leave, that I was seeing a lawyer today and that the divorce would be through within 6 weeks. He didn't want to leave and that is when i became angry, told him that I have no feelings for him, that he is a liar and that I would never trust him, first the affair (which he still says they never slept together), I took him back and he swore he wouldn't contact her and now this...

I told me that I could proceed witht he divorce, but that he wanted me to go to a marriage councelor, only once ... I just laughed, really come on.

He sms'd me this morning telling me that if we were meant to be together we will be together...

I am divorcing him - as hard as what it might be, I cannot live like this, I want to start my life over.

So this is my story - The end I hope !

SNS,

There is definitely value in scaring the heck out of the OP. In my case, the had a friend call my wife a few days after D-Day, to see if she wanted to talk.

So...I upped the ante. I called him at work. He later sent me an angry email telling me that I was "making things hard for him" and that his boss was so angry when he told him what the call was about, that he nearly fired him.

I emailed him back and told him that if he contacts my wife again, I'll make sure he DOES get fired - since I have the phone logs that show that he was using the business phone to carry on his affair.

Funny, I haven't heard a peep from him since.

MP - You hit on something that I am experiencing as well. The quiet times are the hardest. I have a pretty long commute to work and back each day, so I have a lot of "thinking" time. I used to fill it up with reading. (I got through five Dickens novels in a year.) But...I don't feel like doing that anymore, really, It's funny...I feel like I've lost bits of myself. But I'm really not that interested in reclaiming them, because I feel that they must be flawed or defective in some way, since they weren't enough to keep my relationship strong and healthy. Does that make any sense?

Give my regards to your mom, by the way. I hope she is doing well. SNS, hang in there. It's a rough road at times. Renee, I am sorry to hear about the new developments.

Hello everyone!

First to Rene,

I was so sorry to read your latest post. I know how much it hurts, how angry you feel, how disillusioned, it is like being in the twilight zone - an out of body experience! I hope things get better for you. We're here whenever you need to share or to vent. Take care of yourself!

Andrew,

Yes, I could get the skank fired too, but she has three children and even though she could have cared less about mine, I figure her three have a hard enough life as it is with her as their mom and three different absentee dads to boot. Not only was she most likely using a phone paid for by her employer to conduct an A with my H, while her employer was paying her tuition, she was in a hotel screwing my H instead of being in class!!! Just like you and MP, if I wake up at night I can't go back to sleep b/c thoughts of the A flood my mind and if I am lucky enough to have solitude in the car during a drive, the same thing happens then too. Plus, every song these days seems to be about cheating!!!

-SNS

<small>[ March 08, 2005, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: Still-n-Shock ]</small>

hi all - wow - so much information all in one reply.
Andrew - I'm glad you're back, we missed you here. The quiet times are by far the worst and it does make sense that we lose bits of ourselves. I too used to love to read. I can barely make it through a People magazing these days. I used to exercise. I haven't been on my treadmill since D-Day. It's kind of crazy that these people alter our lives so dramatically - not just our relationship with them, but our own private time stuff. How are things going for you guys now???
Mom is doing okay. We found out she needs 7 weeks of radiation so we have been visiting doctors again trying to find the right place to take care of that. It is quite draining on all of us. But thanks for asking.

SNS - I can't believe you are a lawyer too. I actually went to law school in FL. I don't practice anymore either. Many years ago I went back to school and got my Masters in Education so I could teach and be home with the kids. I did that for 5 years and now I stay at home full time. What a waste, huh??

So as far as these records go, what is my best way to get her cell phone records? What are these internet sites you referred to? I know her cell phone #. I can ask my H for her address. Once I get that, where should I go for the records. I have no access to my H's cell records because his phone is through his work, so he needs to ask some admin. people for it every time I want them. I guess it's too bad, but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be stupid enough to use that phone. I also have no access to his work records. It's a large company. Her cell seemed like my only possibility. Any ideas??

I need your advice on the following situation before I act impulsively. During the A, my H claims she was also getting involved with another man who was just about divorced. (He actually had the nerve to ask me to help her with her lovelife problems during the A, can you imagine?) I don't know if they are still together. He has a large mortgage business in FL. I was contemplating e-mailing him, telling him who I was, and saying "I don't know if you are still with her, but if you are - I believe they are still involved in some capacity. If you are interested in finding out, maybe we could help each other. If you're no longer together, forget this e-mail, and sorry to bother you." I thought that way, if he is with her, I could get some info I wouldn't otherwise be able to get. I've been wanting to do this for a few days now and can't decide. Tell me what you think, please! and soon before I do something I shouldn't.

Rene - I'm sorry to hear about your latest development. The beginnng is definitely the most shocking stage of all. I won't say the hardest, but the craziest. Please let us know what happens and how the lawyer and everything go. I never did take that step, but I'm not sure I never will. It seems like I am always a phone call away from it. Good luck.

Goodnight all - Hope to hear from you soon. MP

MP,

H's OW had a quasi-boyfriend and he is the 1st person I called. (H gave me his name). I did learn some things from him, but not as much as I'd hoped. He was/is still infatuated with this girl in spite of the fact that she cheated on him with my H. However, just by talking to him I find things out I'd never otherwise know. He verified when the A started (when all of the back and forth phone calls started between H and OW and also that the calls had stopped after D-Day). He also told me H called her "all of the time" :-)! So, if I were you I'd try it, what have you got to lose. Even if he doesn't have any information for you now, hwe might in the future and atleast he'd have your e-mail address. You might be surprised what he has to tell you. He may have been wanting to talk to you too but has been afraid to make the first move. Is the OW in FL too?

I found some things on NetDetective. I wanted to visit the site Rene made reference to about the cell phone bills - vodacom4me? I've never heard of it but Rene said in her post that she registered both her H and the OW's phone #s there and could see the back and forth calls (dates and times) between the two. She may have more info re: OW's phone acct. since OW is her future SIL though. I also found quiet a bit just by searching public records for the state and county where OW lives. If you know OW's tag # you can get her vehicle registration information from the DMV(again public record). Her DOB and perhaps DL # and/or SSN would be on there.

Good luck contacting that guy (or what about his wife or ex-wife?????). -SNS

MP,

I think there is wisdom in what SNS has to say about emailing the guy. He may have some information - and if he is still involved with her, he'd probably be very interested to know that she was cheating on him with your H.

I do have a couple of other thoughts on this, though. First, your H is likely to be mad. Not that it matters, but...just be prepared for his reaction and try to deal with it calmly. Also, this kind of exposure could re-open the door for contact. I can see a situation in which the OW finds out that you contacted her BF, and then calls your H to tell him about it. Even if she calls just to chew him out or vent...I don't like the idea of ANY contact between the two of them.

What kind of information do you want that you believe you don't have at this point? I know that you have talked about your H taking a lie detector test. Is there something specific you want to know that you believe he is withholding from you?

Having said all of this: I would email the BF, simply because I'm a person who needs to follow a trail once I am on it, if that makes sense. If I wanted information, I'd turn to any source that I thought might be able to provide it for me. I get the sense that you are kind of like me, in that regard: generally mild-mannered, but very persistent when the situation requires it.

SNS,

I checked out the site that Rene mentioned. It looks like it is only for Vodaphone subscribers. Who is your cell company?

Also, I am curious what sort of law you practiced. Where you always a prosecuter? MP..what did you practice? And what subject did you teach?

One other question, MP: I am wondering if part of the anger and resentment that you feel about the affair comes from the fact that you basically gave up two careers (law and teaching) for your family. That was quite a personal sacrifice. Do you feel like your H dishonered that sacrifice by not putting family first when it came to the decision to have an A?

We talked about this before, I know, but...that's the part of this whole thing that gnaws at me the most, I think. My wife made a decision that showed a total disregard for our family. It was a choice that could have significant consequences for our children - and for the life that we built together.

hi guys - thanks for all the advice. I think after hearing what you had to say I will email him. I don't even know if they are still together, but it can't hurt. I don't know exactly where OW is. She has(had) an apt. in NYC, but was seeing this guy in Fl. so she may have moved there. I don't know for sure. If she is still in NYC, I don't think she had a car so I wouldn't be able to get any info. I don't know how much of the info, like birthdate, I should ask my H for. I don't want to let on too much that I am doing this. Not because I care if he gets mad, I think I will get further if she doesn't know about it. I don't think the guys ex-wife will care. I think they were over and almost divorced way before OW came into the picture.

I'm not sure what kind of info he would have. I don't truly believe my H is involved anymore, but I have this nagging feeling that there was some kind of contact (phone, email) during the past few months. I have no proof, just a feeling. I just feel like I need to know and have to search a little more.
What is Vodaphone. I never heard of it. We are Verizon subscribers. Can you still find out info if you are not a Vodaphone customer?

I practiced law for a short time. I represented abused and neglected kids in Newark, NJ. It was a depressing job. I then went back to get my masters in elementary ed. and taught computers for 5 years.
When I had my 3rd child, I decided to leave to take care of them full time. I don't regret my decision, I love being home, but I do feel like H got to be out in the real world and meeting people. I always say now it would be impossible to meet someone. Where do I go? I serve chicken nuggets at my kids school and am library mom. Not too many options there!!!

I agree with you Andrew in terms of their decision to disregard our whole family. It is one thing to disrespect me, but to do this to our children is horrendous. I am finding it so difficult to get through each day with him. I am SOOOOOOO suspicious of everything. That in turn makes me angry and it is just impossible to move forward. I know you guys feel like this too. There doesn't seem to be any easy solution to feeling like this. I truly wonder if the pain and anger ever go away.
Just curious, what are your everyday conversations like with your W/H? Are they pleasant or are they filled with accusations? Mine seem to be the latter more days than not. What a terrible way to go through life. We are all intelligent, good people and it is such a shame that this has destroyed us. Andrew - are you still anti-divorce no matter what? I still think about it alot. I know you do too SNS.
Well I still have my house guests here so I guess I should be hospitable. Hope you all have a good weekend. As always, I look forward to hearing from you. I'll let you know what happens with the email. MP