</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ConfusedCheater:
<strong> dewt,

Did your H have a gay affair? I'm supposing he did, since you posed that question to me...

CC </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hello there, CC...

my name is Dylan, and I am Dewt's W...or exW...pick a label...sigh...

we have been at MB for 5 years...starting with Dewt's PA 5 years ago...

I had the affair this time...like you, with a woman...like you, I feel a sense of 'limbo'....the "Oh-my-god-I-had-an-affair-with-a-woman" aspect is sooooo underrated by many...I feel awash in sexual confusion...

like you, I was adamantly hetero....and had a strict moral code and boundries...

I betrayed myself as well as my H and family...

I can't yet look in the mirror...

Unlike you, my 'affair' was not 3 years long, nor was it hidden or lied about...it started out as OW and I being friends...platonic friends, she was exiting a rough abusive relationship with another woman at the same time.......June - Oct 2003...needing a place to live, we needing extra income, she rented our spare room...at the end of Oct 2003, she had an accident at work and was house-bound for the next month....we spent nov. getting closer and physical(nothing MAJORLY physical yet)....ALL with Dewt's knowledge...hell, he even gave me 'tips'...Dec. he spent trying desperatly to save his sanity....and in my own way, so did I....Jan 2 2004, he packed up the mini-van, our 7 yr old, and left me when I could not re-commit right then and there, to our marriage....

it was truly an 'experiment' gone wrong....it was supposed to be 3 of us engaged in polyamory...but feelings developed for the OW...unexpected feelings...the '3-some' angle never materialized and Dewt went nuts watching her and I grow closer....

I was left in a tail-spin, wondering if I was gay, bi,..???!?... if this had bearing on all the effeminate men I had dated over the years, I needed to look at my life...my past...my issues...open up to myself and discover what the hell allowed me to do this devastating thing to my family...the people I love most in the world...

was THIS what I had been lacking that led me to break vows I held more sacred than my own life???..I honestly felt I had personal questions that I needed personal answers to....the first month after he had left me...I never even saw OW...I spent that dark time in an empty 5 bedroom house in the dark, slept in my son's bed surrounded by anything that smelled like him....

I have NO idea IF I want my marriage....much has happened in between my affair and now...

Dewt has been with 4 women during our separation which began last Jan and ended in Aug....something I have issues with (yes, even while in the throes of my own affair) as he stated time and time again he wanted to be married to me...wanted me still...loved me still...missed me....missed us....to me, those words do not 'jive' with the actions he instead took....

sort of a "you want me to get off the proverbial fence and decide to rebuild our marriage....ok...well,...you're busy right now with your girlfriend...so how about we hit the pause button on our M instead...come see me on my fence when you're done..."

how could I EVER believe he was serious and truly loved me when all it seemed to me, was a rush on his part, to have me 'replaced'....have someone to stroke his ego, someone to be intimate with...but all the while claiming he wanted our marriage?!?!?!

NC was established in June....I moved out of the OW's town and back in with my son and Dewt....to co-habitate and raise our son....

no 'marriagebuilding' as yet.....

Dylan

Amen to you both Faithfully and SAB! See she finally admitted something....when in her posts to me she was denying there was something deep. But I guess it is "safe" to be in a place of denial and not face things at face value.

You know, I am trying to live by this saying: "You only have today to live. Who knows what tomorrow might bring? Waste today and you may not have tomorrow." This helps me to get my butt in gear to help remind me that I am the only one that can really control my happiness. It helps me not to look back although it is hard because I have constant reminders of the great pain I have occurred in the last few years. But I am trying for me.

So CC, think of all the wasted time that you have occured and think of what time you have left and how you would like to share it with your husband. It is not fair for him to live in this limbo state that you are putting him in.

Ali~

<small>[ December 02, 2004, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: Ali88 ]</small>

Ali,

I think CC is going to get to it when she gets to it, and not a moment before that. And the harder anyone pushes her, the harder she will push back. JL has been talking to her about her denial for months.

The difference now, I think, is that she is in true NC, so she is gaining perspective. Before that, it was too hard and hurtful for her to let go of things (and potentially get hurt), so she didn't. This is someone who, by her own admission, is "spoiled." If you can admit that, it goes without saying that you're not going to put yourself in situations where you have to work and possibly get hurt.

She'll get there..... she can't stay stagnant forever.

CC, I know you are in IC, and I wonder what your therapist says about your feelings of sexlessness. To me, that is an "idle" ground that is dangerous. If someone comes along that suddenly makes you feel sexual, what will stop you from taking up with that person?

Finally, have you considered separating from your husband and seeing if that makes a difference in your outlook?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ConfusedCheater:
<strong> SAB,

Again, it's his way of dealing with things, and it's worked for 20 years,

CC </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">but that's just it...

it hasn't worked....has it....

otherwise, your marriage/relationship would not be where it is/was...

BOTH of you have changes to make...or yes, you are in peril of repeating history...


Dylan

soulloss,

First of all, I'm saddened to read your story. I'm sorry that you've been through so much pain and loss. Parts of your story (only the sexuality aspect) sounded similar to mine, and I thank you for posting. Now, some questions for you:

Do you find that you're now attracted to men or women? Would you want your marriage to "work" now? Are you done with the OW?

Your relationship with her started out much like mine. My FOW was a friend (albiet, an internet friend), who was having marital difficulties, and a sad, lonely life, although she had a great outlook and a comical wit about her. We forged a friendship and I tried to help her. In the midst of it, she helped me with a few things. THEN it turned into an EA and then a PA.

I'm curious if you left your OW? Did you end it? Did she end it? Do you miss having a woman to love? I still do, in many ways.

I, too, wondered about my sexuality after that, and even looked at my H differently, wondering if now I'd consider him feminine. After all, I always said that he was the closest thing to a woman (meaning that he's sensitive, caring, clean... I know-not good to generalize, but you get the drift).

Thanks for any input.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ali,
Again, I don't want to leave my H in limbo, and for now he's accepting what I can offer him. We are sexual, although it doesn't compare to our sex life for the past 18 years!! Right now it's still confusing and sad for me. I find myself missing my FOW. I miss sex with her. Maybe I miss sex with a woman? I don't know... Anyway, my H and I are open about my being honest regarding my sexuality and my sexual preferences. He's just hoping for that light to "switch" on again, and that I'll find him (and maybe all men) appealing to me again. Make sense?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Faithfully,
Ahh, reading your posts is like a relief to me. You sound so peaceful and fair to me. Everything you say rings true too, and you seem to get to the depth of what's going on. I appreciate it.

Although I still don't know what "denial" I'm in (that you're referring to), but I hope to realize it soon!! I know I am the most stubborn person, and I analyze things to death and I find change very, very hard.

Again, you bring up another GREAT POINT about being sexually "idle" and how dangerous it could be. If I meet someone who makes me feel sexually alive, I'd like to say that I won't act on it again, as much as I miss that with my FOW. I don't think that *I* could go through that again. After all, I said before that if my FOW came back into my life, begging me to take her back and promising me everything I'd been dreaming about for the past 18 months, I still don't think I'd do it. I got burned once (as selfish as that sounds!). Although I think I still love her and care about her as a person (even though she's been downright mean, hateful and cruel to me after the NC), I don't think that I could survive it again. I've realized how fragile I really am, and that's a first! I've always relied on my being a "strong soldier". Well, I'm not. I'm human. I have flaws and I could get hurt. I could bleed. I see that now. Does that answer your question? I really can't see anybody coming into my life and pushing those buttons, but believe me, I know that I'd lose everything here if I acted on it again and I don't want to do that.

To answer your question about my IC and discussing my sexlessness, my therapist says that I've been through a very painful loss and it takes time. She's not surprised at all, although she's never had a case where it involved 2 women, like it has with me. She suggested that I see a new movie "Kinsey", citing that it may be helpful regarding sexual preferences and those questions. She doesn't put answers in my head. She's waiting for me to get there.

It's all still a mystery to me. I, like soulless, thought I was the most hetero person on earth! I was sexual (although very Catholic--saving myself for my H) and happy and stimulated. So, for me to have fallen for a woman, is mystifying to me. And since I'm not attracted to ANYONE right now, that's a mystery too. Any answers out there????????

Thanks all, for your input. I'll get there. I promise!

CC

Stubborn?

I will agree with you on that one! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Stubborn, yes. CC, I only know about you what I learn from your posts, and I have seen you write several times that you take great pride in being stubborn, a "worst case scenario," different, etc. I personally think you lean too heavy on these identities and are desperately trying to hang on to them, which is impeding your progress at recovery. You "can't" figure yourself out because you are a "worst case scenario." You refuse to see that the same-sex aspect of your A is irrelevant. (I personally believe that it is, anyway.) In fact, maybe the reason you chose to be with a woman was because you knew your H would "accept" an A with a woman, but not with a man. It was an easy way to have your cake and eat it too.

Whether or not you are ever attracted to another woman is irrelevant. The question is do you value your relationship with your H enough to forego the action upon that feeling? Go ahead and BE attracted to women, just don't cheat on your husband. (Assuming, of course, that you stay with him.)

And if you ARE going to stay with him ... then stay WITH him. And start working towards creating a better relationship with him.

ETA: Just want to add something to this post that I made late last night. I mentioned it to my H and he thought I should clarify one of my comments.

When I suggested that you should or could go ahead and BE attracted to women, just don't act on it, what I was saying that it IS possible to be in love with your H, have a satisfying and productive marriage with him, and still be attracted to women.

We are all fooling ourselves if we believe that we will never find ourselves attracted to people outside of our spouse. It happens. But there is a difference between just looking and acting on it. Those are the boundaries that JL spoke to you about in a much earlier post in this thread.

However, I am not talking about your FOW. I want to make that clear. I just think you sound like you have so much guilt over having been with a woman that it is keeping you "stuck." It shouldn't matter WHO or WHAT you were with. The point is that you strayed.

Your descriptions of your life with your H now seem pained. You seem like you are there out of obligation, doing everything and being with him because you HAVE to. If he hasn't picked up on that already, he will, eventually. If that's what "good" marriage is to you because that's what you had before, then two things come to mind. First ........ eventually, you will stray again. Second ........ something is not "right" on his end for him to be willing to accept that.

The more I read about it, the more this seems like a very odd situation, all the way around. You said that even your mother has told you that your relationship with your H is not "deep." Was that comment meaningful to you?

<small>[ December 03, 2004, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: FaithfullyHoping ]</small>

Faithfully,

I'm trying to remember if I painted myself as the "worst case scenario". Wow. That rings a bell. My FOW used to say that I said the same thing very often!! I must say that regarding some of my health issues, I've been termed that exact phrase by my doctors, so maybe it did stick in a few areas of my life...

As far as having my cake and eating it too, I doubt highly that I even subliminally planned an A and chose a woman b/c it would make it easier on my H. Doubt it highly. I could have had the opportunity several times within my marriage (with another man), but NEVER acted upon it. I chose to act upon it with this woman because she became very, very close to me, she said all the right things, she was supportive and a confidante. We became closer and closer and then it happened. It wasn't planned. It was the first time that anyone (man or woman) had been THAT close to me since I've been married though, so that says a lot. I let her into my "bubble" as I called it. I don't let many people even in my life--I'm very careful about choosing my friends around me. But she fit in so easily and it felt so right, right from the beginning. THAT'S why it happened, I believe... That, and I was at a confusing part in my life and marriage.

I know for sure that I'm still attracted to the very thought of her. I'm not attracted to any other women, or even men right now. So, I could easily keep those thoughts away from me, since the OW isn't a presence in my life. SHE used to tell me something similar--she'd say, "It's okay to fantasize about each other as long as we don't act upon it anymore." I thought that was her way of telling me that she still wanted me but couldn't act on it anymore b/c of the guilt. I really don't know...

In any case, I *am* trying to make my relationship with my H better and better. How I react sexually is up in the air. Right now I'm okay with accomodating him, but it doesn't bring me any satisfaction and it's still hard on me. I feel like I'm lying to him each time we have sex. He knows that I'm not "getting anything" out of it, so it's hard. At least we're getting along better, and I think that it'll eventually catch up sexually. We'll see...

Thanks for your input, again.

CC

CC, I was adding to my post above while you were posting.

CC,

You used that phrase "worst case scenario" several times in your posts here.


Your comments about your current sex life with your H really just confirm what I wrote in my edit above. You still speak so romantically about your FOW, but with your H, everything is just an "accomodation."


As I clarified above, I was NOT suggesting that it's okay to fantasize or romanticize about your FOW. I wrote what I wrote in response to the fact that you are still so unsure about your sexual orientation. You seemed upset about the fact that you might be attracted to women. But the more I read what you write, the more I wonder if it's not that you are attracted to women. You were attracted to what the OW brought to you:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I chose to act upon it with this woman because she became very, very close to me, she said all the right things, she was supportive and a confidante. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You didn't have that with your H. You still don't. Obviously you NEED it.

So where do you think you can find that now? Is it possible for you to say those words to your H during your MC? He may need some coaching to figure out how to "be" that for you. (After all, if he also thinks your marriage is/was "perfect," then he is going to need some re-training.) Just a suggestion.

Faithfully! YES YES YES YES! You hit the nail right on the head! OK so I am not as articulate as you are but that is what I have been trying to say all along. CC is very manuipultive! She only sees what she wants to see. Thank you for the encourament and the words that I was trying to say.

Ali~ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ali,

"Manipulative"?? I only see what I "want to see"??? In what way do you mean?? I think that I have pretty clear judgment, but sometimes I am wrong, and I usually give people the benefit of the doubt. I don't think that I manipulate anyone or anything. If I did, then wouldn't I still be getting from the FOW what I wanted?? I couldn't manipulate that relationship, even though I tried towards the end!

Faithfully,

YES, eveything with the FOW was romantic, for the most part, in between the painful cycles. Sex with my H did become more of a "chore" towards the end of my relationship with the OW, because I only wanted to be with her, more and more. I wanted him less and less, and didn't think of men in an attracted way for a LONG time. So, the sexual orientation question is still looming over me.

Interesting, what you said about me being attracted to what the OW "brought" to me! She mentioned that one night to me! She said that it explained a lot, because in her mind, she was easily "fit" into my life--she was "maliable" and "nondescript". I immediately cited a million reasons why I found HER to be attractive and someone I wanted. It wasn't only for the attention she gave me, or the thrill of it. I admired so much about her, something she doubted for a long time. Very interesting...

I *do* agree that I was very attracted to parts of our relationship--where it fit in our lives, how we supported each other, etc. It couldn't have happened any other way. I was attracted to the fact that she "read" me well, she tried to please me, she thought of me a lot, she supported my trials and tribulations, AND most of all she was a soundingboard for most things in my life. She didn't hand-hold and agree with me. She said what she believed, and I did the same for her.

Okay, so do I have THAT with my H? I don't know. I don't think so. BUT, I think that's normal after being in a relationship with him for 24 years. We've both changed and I can't expect him to have the same energy and devotion as he did (or as my FOW did!). It's reality. So, was it a little thrilling that someone found me THAT important in their life? YES! And the further I fell from being so important in her life, the more despair I felt. I didn't ask to be so important to her, and when it was taken away, I was very hurt.

I don't know that I still "need" that attention, etc. It was nice to have it from her, and more than that, I miss HER as a friend, not the adulation. I am spending more time with my H and sharing much more, but it could never be a replacement for the type of relationship I had with her.

You're right in that my H and I both need "re-training". We stopped going to MC. It seemed redundant after several months, and it has helped to a certain point. Now I think we just need to spend more time together to see if it'll work.

CC

CC,

Your way of expressing things sometimes just sets my teeth on end. It is sooo disrespectful of your H and so dismissive of him. He is clearly your second choice and it is not clear you choose him at all. But the worst is how you have dismissed his efforts and forgiveness. I would like to examine a few things you have said and see if perhaps I can follow up on what is being said to you in the most recent posts. You said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As far as having my cake and eating it too, I doubt highly that I even subliminally planned an A and chose a woman b/c it would make it easier on my H. Doubt it highly. I could have had the opportunity several times within my marriage (with another man), but NEVER acted upon it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course you did not act on it, you risked losing your H and the support he provides you and your family if you took up with another male. Your affair with a female came in under the "radar" so to speak and even you admit that your H seems to accept it more easily than if it had been a male. BUT, you were also able to fool your children more easily as well. This woman could come to your house and "be your friend" in front of them, when they would have easily picked up on your affair IF you had brought a man home to "be your friend."


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I chose to act upon it with this woman because she became very, very close to me, she said all the right things, she was supportive and a confidante. We became closer and closer and then it happened. It wasn't planned. It was the first time that anyone (man or woman) had been THAT close to me since I've been married though, so that says a lot. I let her into my "bubble" as I called it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You let her in because she was "safe" with regard to destroying your family. I think you wanted the closeness and frankly it could have just as easily been a male IF he could get under the radar but no male could.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't let many people even in my life--I'm very careful about choosing my friends around me. But she fit in so easily and it felt so right, right from the beginning. THAT'S why it happened, I believe... That, and I was at a confusing part in my life and marriage.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And you really did not care what your H thought. Nothing confusing about that. You still don't really care which is a problem when trying to rebuild a marriage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know for sure that I'm still attracted to the very thought of her. I'm not attracted to any other women, or even men right now. So, I could easily keep those thoughts away from me, since the OW isn't a presence in my life. SHE used to tell me something similar--she'd say, "It's okay to fantasize about each other as long as we don't act upon it anymore." I thought that was her way of telling me that she still wanted me but couldn't act on it anymore b/c of the guilt. I really don't know...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Most of this is called withdrawal. But has it occured to you that she did NOT want to lose her husband or family either and YOU were a "safe" outlet for her as well. It only changed when you ceased to be "safe" and threatened to blow this thing up by telling her family. She simply cared much more for her family than you do for yours, hence she stopped it when it threatened her family. This is something you would NOT do and have not done...protect your family.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In any case, I *am* trying to make my relationship with my H better and better. How I react sexually is up in the air. Right now I'm okay with accomodating him, but it doesn't bring me any satisfaction and it's still hard on me. I feel like I'm lying to him each time we have sex. He knows that I'm not "getting anything" out of it, so it's hard. At least we're getting along better, and I think that it'll eventually catch up sexually. We'll see...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hate the word "try". You have to DECIDE to make your marriage better before it will become better. Your sex life will NOT bring you any satisfaction until you realize that sex is an EMOTIONAL experience for you AND your H. So I doubt that it is much good for him either other than as a physical release. You are emotionally still attached to OW hence no one else is attractive to you. Here is a case of you having to make a conscious decision to make your marriage better and your relationship with your H better. NO "I'm trying" will do the job.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I *do* agree that I was very attracted to parts of our relationship--where it fit in our lives, how we supported each other, etc. It couldn't have happened any other way. I was attracted to the fact that she "read" me well, she tried to please me, she thought of me a lot, she supported my trials and tribulations, AND most of all she was a soundingboard for most things in my life. She didn't hand-hold and agree with me. She said what she believed, and I did the same for her.

Okay, so do I have THAT with my H? I don't know. I don't think so. BUT, I think that's normal after being in a relationship with him for 24 years. We've both changed and I can't expect him to have the same energy and devotion as he did (or as my FOW did!). It's reality. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Excuse me! You don't think going through what he has gone through doesn't show devotion??? You don't think you have hurt him deeply, caused him to question himself, and surely your love for him? What you have seen is more of an act of devotion than anything you gave OW or she ever gave you and you clearly don't see it. Do you see where my opening comments are coming from?? You have NO respect for the man, and in MB parlance you are commiting a huge DJ.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, was it a little thrilling that someone found me THAT important in their life? YES! And the further I fell from being so important in her life, the more despair I felt. I didn't ask to be so important to her, and when it was taken away, I was very hurt.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You don't think your H found you important to his life? He is still there although you clearly are NOT there for him. YOU ARE VERY IMPORTANT TO YOUR H AND YOUR CHILDREN. Time to wake up CC.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know that I still "need" that attention, etc. It was nice to have it from her, and more than that, I miss HER as a friend, not the adulation. I am spending more time with my H and sharing much more, but it could never be a replacement for the type of relationship I had with her.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course you cannot. Your affair with OW was free of children, H's, and monetary concerns. It was free of guilt and it was understood by both of you that it was disposable when necessary, hence no real obligations at all. With your H, you have real life...children, bills, obligations, vows, and issues of commitment. This was like dating when living at home with mom doing the laundary and cooking and dad paying all of the bills and the insurance and gas for your car. That is why some people claim the HS years were the best in their life.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're right in that my H and I both need "re-training". We stopped going to MC. It seemed redundant after several months, and it has helped to a certain point. Now I think we just need to spend more time together to see if it'll work.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree more time together is a good thing IF you are willing to admit your perspective needs changing and you are willing to change it. If you are seeking what you had with OW, your H does NOT have a chance. YOU will never get the same feelings of freedom with your H because he is reality, but you would never have had the devotion and love you have received from your H with your OW.

Pick your poison CC, but it is time to start seeing the world from some other perspective than simply responses to YOUR discomfort for what YOU did to yourself. Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

CC,

In a few words, I think we're all trying to say to you it's time to get over yourself and get on with rebuilding your family.

Just because you manipulate doesn't mean you get the out come you are looking for. You said you tried right? Well, you are doing it here. I am not sure why? We are trying to help you. And you are not seeing as help. You continue to justify your feelings. We all know you had an affair. You are not the only one in this world that is suffering from it. My God, take a good look in the mirror and get real with yourself! Who are you really hurting?

Ali~

Faithfully,

Ouch. Okay, most of what you said is sinking in, and I think you're right about most of it...

My H *did* turn out to be my second choice, I think, although had I really been faced with that choice, I don't know whom I would have chosen. I have a 24 year history with him, and I know him. Her, I thought I knew very, very well, but it's not the same as being with her 24/7, and many things about her bothered me. I'd be a fool to leave him for her, but I could say with certainty that at the beginning of the A, I would have left if I could have--(meaning if our children were grown, if we both had jobs, etc...). I kinda wish I had that opportunity of choosing, because then I wouldn't be questioning anything! I wish I were in the position to have ended the A instead of her. I wish that I had more control over the A. The outcome probably would have been very different, and that ate away at me for months after it ended.

You are partially right--I dismissed my H's efforts and forgiveness. It's probably due to the fact that I felt in my heart he'd always be here with me, for me, and I for him. Honestly, even in the middle of the most heated part of the A, I still pictured in my mind's eye, ALL of us somehow ending up together, still maintaining our relationships. The OW told me that it was "big-headed" of me to think that he'd want to be in my life at all if I chose to leave him for someone else. While I"m much more hot-headed, I'd like to think that I'd always be in my H's life, no matter what happened, even if he chose to leave me. We had a friendship before our relationship began, and it always goes back to that.

About the "radar" and men/women being in my life, I have to correct you. Many men HAVE been in my life. Most of them are friends of ours. My children wouldn't be surprised at all if any of them would be here, as my friend. So, they could have easily gone under the "radar" too. Probably even more easily than my FOW. And, my children (whom are teenagers) have chided me about my relationship with the OW from the beginning, citing that I seemed so "happy, in love, happy". They'd ask me, "Are you a lesbian?" "Are you in love with her??", to which I'd reply, "Don't be silly. Mommy just loves her as a good friend!". It was believable, especially because no one would believe that I'd love a woman, nor a woman who resembled her. BUT, I didn't choose her because of those facts.

I *did* care what my H thought about my relationship with her. I didn't want him finding out. I didn't want to confuse or hurt him, but at the same time, I was trying to figure it all out.

Hmm, I'm STILL in withdrawal, and that's why I'm still attracted to the OW?? Interesting...

As far as ME being safe and that's why the OW chose me, I don't buy that. Her H didn't think of her as a sexual threat AT ALL. She used to joke around, saying that even if she said the most inappropriate sexual things to his friends, he wouldn't care, because, "Who would take a fat woman seriously??" (her words!). So, she could have easily had an A with a man, and he wouldn't have guessed it at all. I'm sure he was in shock that ANYONE found her to be sexually appealing!! I'm sure of it!

She ended our romance way before I ever threatened to tell about our A to anyone. She couldn't take the guilt from the beginning and it would occasionally eat away at her, and then she'd bounce back and want me again. We had cycles of that. I *do* agree that after this last threat in May, it was the final straw and she felt that she had to end it and she had to tell her H whatever she felt comfortable in telling him (I still doubt she told him the whole truth--she probably painted me as the aggressor, when in fact I had reams of info proving otherwise!). Anyway, that much I do agree on. I became a threat to her security, so she had to end it. She even told me that "Had you not painted me into a corner, it wouldn't have ended like this." So, I do acknowledge that I added to the ending. It was very, very wrong and dumb of me to do! Her children and her life there are her security. She stood to lose a lot if she lost her H. Her parents thought that she was lucky to have found someone to love her, and they'd never forgive her if she left him! I know that. Her financial security from her dad would have ended too, and it was something she relied heavily on. She once told me, "Do you think my dad would continue supporting me if he knew I left my husband for a woman??". He wouldn't have. So, I understand her choices, as hard as they were to accept.

So, she "protected" her family by ending it (something she really didn't want to do--end the friendship), and I didn't protect my family? In a way, I hated living a lie, and I did leave clues and evidence around (she made me aware of that). Of course I wouldn't want my children knowing about it until they were old enough to understand it better, but I wouldn't want to live a lie either. Someday they'll know the truth--that I fell in love with her and was confused about my sexual preferences. So, what the OW is doing is "right"? Lying to her children? She wanted to keep this secret and carry it to her grave, she told me. That's a better thing to do? What if they found out eventually? I'd rather try to explain it and talk about it. I don't know that either way is "right". But for the time being, I did try to "protect" my family from knowing the truth.

I understand what you say about "trying" to make the sexual part better with my H. I think that a physical release is mostly what it's about for him. That, and a combination of nostalgia and a need for love. I have that too, but I feel confused and guilty and worried if I even think of reaching out to him. I don't find him attractive to me, so I should lie about it until it becomes a reality again?? That confuses me. Emotionally, I"m grateful that he's still in my life. I love his ability to love, forgive and support. He has undying loyalty. I see his good qualities and I appreciate them, but I don't think I deserve them. Does that make sense? So, I don't know how to make the marriage better if we're not on an even parallel.

I totally see that my H has shown more devotion that I have to my OW or she has to me. I know that.

About the A, no, it wasn't free of those things (money, guilt, children...). We DID have to work through a lot. We had to figure out how to arrange to see each other-how to save money, etc., how to work it in our schedules. We had money, children, timetables, husbands to consider first and foremost. It wasn't all "playtime" for us. And, on top of that, we shared in daily worries and tribulations, so we basically shared complaints, like in a marriage.

Wow, what you said, "YOU will never get the same feelings of freedom with your H because he is reality, but you would never have had the devotion and love you have received from your H with your OW," is something I should print and put on a wall! You're right! While I did have love and a certain amount of devotion from the OW, it couldn't and doesn't compare to that which my H gives me, and she even told me as much from the beginning! She knew that she couldn't hold a candle to him! You are right!

So, what I have now is more time with my children and with my H. They are all happier for it. I know I can't look for them to replace what I had with the OW. That won't/can't happen. I have to be happier with myself and then with my H and with them. I have to be rid of the guilt I'm carrying, and the confusion. I'm not there yet. I'm sorry for being so stubborn. I know I work on people's nerves! Thank you for trying to get through to me though!

SAB and Ali:
Thanks for more advice. I don't know when it'll all sink in........

btw, I did go out with my H tonight. We went alone to a nice dinner and then shopping for a few Christmas presents. It was a nice, quiet night...

CC

Wow. I am at a loss for words. I don't even know how to articulate what should be said right now, other than to say that you are quite possibly one of the most selfish, self-centered, and clueless people I've ever run across. After all this time and after everything you've been through and all the help and advice that you've been offered, and this is where you're at? I don't know what else can be said except that you reap what you sow. If you're unhappy with your life, you have no one to blame but yourself. That has become painfully clear.


And BTW, you addressed that entire post to me and it was actually JL that you were replying to.

<small>[ December 03, 2004, 09:40 PM: Message edited by: FaithfullyHoping ]</small>

Faithfully,

Sorry I posted that last post to you instead of to JL.

I've been considered the most UNSELFISH person my whole life (up until recently). You all only know me by what's happening in my life recently. I've been very giving and caring to my family and friends, almost to excess. I've been duly noted for keeping my extended family together, when no one else had the energy or wherewithall to put on celebratory dinners, etc., and it was always my pleasure and my pride. I've BEEN THERE for them and for my friends as well. I've been there for my H all throughout our relationship, except for the past couple of years.

So, you may have a point. Maybe that's what "midlife crisis" is?? I do definitely agree that I've changed during the past few years and have gotten more selfish, but I looked at it like it was something good. I wanted a balanced life, but maybe I went too far the other way. Something to think about.......

About my being "clueless", that's something I never was either! Another bad attribute I've gotten recently......

CC

The fact that CC still thinks about the OW does not make her a selfish or self-centered person.
I think she has a lot of confussion about her sexual preferences, since all her life she thought she was heterosexual.
Most of the affairs are not true love, they are all base in lies and deceit, but in her case she really fell in love with this OW. Its extremely hard for her to commit herself to her marriage since her thoughts are still so fresh and vivid in her mind.
She would like to have the dedication to her marriage and husband, but since she is too low and depressed ,its very hard for her to do so.
Even though this is supposed to be an encouraging place for marriages and the comminment of them, in her case is going to be hard to do so.
She probably feels like she is living a farse with her husband. She is trying to get her feelings back for her husband, but itis not happenining. Not because she is abad person and does not want to, but thats the way life is. I think she wants to make it work. But the thoughts of what she lived and how she feels are not letting her.
I feel very bad for her, because she is going thru withdrawal,she has mixed sexual feelings,she feels bad for her husband her kids, her guilt of what she did and how she still thinks,etc,etc.

She needs a lot of moral support and help for what she is going thru.
I dont think she is being unfair to her husband, just because she still thinks about her. I think she is trying to make her marriage work, and she is probably feels frustrated because it is not happening. Probably her mind has a million contradictory thoughts and she is going crazy with them.
CC, I hope you can solve your conflicts and can be happy soon. I know you arenot feeling a lot of happiness and peace right now.

I wish you the best, and no matter what happens, you will be in peace with yourself.

Take care

MYRTA

Myrta,

First of all, THANK YOU very much for what you said. Your words were very comforting, and I feel that you were right on the money. Thank you so very much.

I have to say that after reading the posts this morning, I felt suicidal (again). That hasn't happened in a while. I thought I was coming to terms with things, and I thought that my relationship with my H and kids was getting better. But then when I read that I'm self-centered, manipulative, selfish and clueless, I really had to examine myself. It took me a while, but I thought of everyone in my life who loves me and who has known me BEFORE this stupid A took place. Yes, I'm a totally different person, and I guess looking back on it now I wish it didn't happen, because I HATE WHO I AM now, and I hate what it did to my marriage, to my H and to everyone else in my life (including the OW and her H and her family too!). This isn't the "me" I've known forever. And, feeling this pitiful and selfish and horrible is all new to me too. This is by far the most horrid thing I've had to endure, and I don't know why because I've endured a lot in my life. None of this makes sense.

Myrta, you are right. I *did* fall in love with my OW. That much I know. I truly did love her and she loved me. While she realized it was no longer working for her and she wanted to change it, I didn't get to that same place. I wanted it to continue forever, and anything less than what she gave me in the beginning was hurtful and confusing to me.

I am depressed and confused. I don't know how this happened. I don't know how I could have fallen in love with a woman. I have NO idea how I could have had a sexual relationship with a woman. I have no idea how I could have been unfaithful to my husband, the closest person I've known.

You're right--I am trying to get my marriage back with my husband, and I DO feel at times that it's a farce. I'm going through the motions, but wondering when I'll feel happy again, and when I'll feel like it's "right". It's far from right. I'm riddled with guilt and confusion. I love my H dearly, and no one here will believe me, and I never wanted to hurt him.

You are also right--that I am not feeling a lot of peace or happiness right now. Honestly? Right now I wonder why I'm still living. I'm wondering what my life really means. I'm wondering if the first 43 years were a farce, or I convinced myself that they were so great. I'm wondering how and when I won't dread another day and when the pain will stop. While I've come FAR in regard to the withdrawal, I'm still very hurt and confused.

ALL I want is to find peace and make my life livable again. I'm sorry that I've taken up so much time and energy here, and I thank you, Myrta, for your support and understanding. It has meant a lot to me. (My best to Stanley too). Take care.

CC