Hello folks --- ok I know I have another post but I feel like I have to "tell" someone or I will explode.

I am a man and am supposed to be tough, calloused, insensitive, just plain blind emotionally and somewhat able to control feelings of hurt - at least that's what they say anyway - but I simply can not stand this. I don't know why I feel like my insides have been torn out. I should be able to deal with this but in all honesty it is very hard.

I have read the articles on this web site and they say things like "it's the hardest thing you'll ever do," "it is devastating," but that is kind of like telling someone that when they go to the beach there they will see a lot of water. The articles stop short of telling you what is really going to happen. They don't tell you that you are going to feel like throwing up. They don't tell you that your world is going to seem like it is ending.

In the last couple of years I have been downsized, lost my mother (yes, my wife and that man were involved with each other then), and now this.

The only saving grace I have is that being a Christain, I know that He will see me through this. I don't understand why it is happening but I know that eventually things will be better.

I have talked to her about going on anti-depressants but she says "I don't want to have to take drugs just to live here." When I heard that it was like being hit with a sledge hammer. To be honest, my 2 sons and I are all ADHD but we are all on medication and working hard to "be normal." So, I understand a lot of her frustration but I don't understand her pulling her love away.

For all of you who are further down the road than I am, please help me and tell me what I can do.

How can I retrieve my manhood?

Do any of the other men feel like they are less of a man because they can't or haven't kept their wife happy?

I have never felt like this before and I don't know how to deal with it. I want to hit someone really badly but I have never and will never hit my wife. The other man is an undertaker living 75 miles away.

Does anyone have a tree they want cut down? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I know exactly how you feel.

I could not get over not being man enough for my wife. I could not accept being the fallback choice, the "for the kids" choice. I felt that my life was washing away, hoping for a love that was not coming my way.

It is hard. For many WS, the fog does lift, the terrible consequences of their actions comes to light, and they do see the BS in a whole new light. They actually see their BS as a worthy and valued human being, deserving of the love and respect they have in their hearts, even if it is temporarily buried. Sadly, some WS are never able to see that. They don't truly realize that their BS are deserving of the same love, adoration, and admiration they seek. They only see their BS as "something" that has outlived it's usefulness in their lives, and is to be cast aside.

It is entirely normal for you to be feeling emasculated by this. Do not feel ashamed. You are not alone. But, don't wallow in your self-abuse. You must remember that you are no less of a man because your WW does not see you as one. You have to remind yourself of your self worth; failings and all, you are still a worthy human being.

Perhaps your WW will come to see your merit, but if she doesn't, that doesn't mean you don't have any. You are worthy and deserving of a partner who will love and cherish you for who you are.

((((((((((((((((((((((RHR)))))))))))))))))))))))))

It is completely miserable at first, but does get much better. I think it is particularly hard for men. At least we ladies can cry and scream.

There are a ton of men here going through the same thing. Hopefully some of them will check in.

Hi RHR -

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> For all of you who are further down the road than I am, please help me and tell me what I can do. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Find a good pro-marriage MC and start going with your W.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How can I retrieve my manhood? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your manhood is still with you... you are giving your W more credit than she deserves. I completely understand your feelings... but your w's decision to have an A is in NO WAY a reflection of YOUR manhood.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Do any of the other men feel like they are less of a man because they can't or haven't kept their wife happy? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes... I felt like this for a very long time... but I've since learned that my W's A's were NOT about me...

Please find a pro-marriage MC and start going with your W as soon as you can...

Semper Fi,
RIF

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am a man and am supposed to be tough, calloused, insensitive, just plain blind emotionally and somewhat able to control feelings of hurt </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is what society tells us. I do not know a single female that does not want to connect emotionally with there closses friends. And the only way that is going to happen is by there friends having emotions too. At least that is the lesson I learned.

Yes we need to be tough and be the rock in our families, but we have a right to break down and cry or laugh our butts off. I must share my wifes pet peeve was I did not show anger/hurt in anything small or large, still hard to do. But at least now I am learning through some close male friends there wifes are looking for the same thing. As soon as I learn the balance between being the rock and showing my emotions I will let you know <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

RHR in AL,
Listen to Uphill he alway does a great job communicating what most male BS experience.

Before my wife's affair, I really thought I had all my sh"t together. Great wife. Great kids. Was economically successful. Felt confident bordering on overconfidence.

Then I discovered the "friendship."

At first it was extreme anxiety. All of the spying and continued lies just fed that fire.

I fell into a depression after hearing that it was an EA "as defined in that book (Glass' 'Not Just Friends')

She wrote the NC letter and recommitted. Things appeared to get better. I felt better briefly.

About a year later I found out that he had tried to contact her again once things had cooled down. Although unwanted on her end, she didn't tell me about it as she had promised.

The hurt and anger came streaming out. I was a 46 year old man who couldn't remember the last time he had felt hurt let alone had cried. Well I did.

Finally, I was told the "truth." I thought I had prepared myself for this moment. I had told myself that although the evidence wasn't conclusive it was probable. It didn't matter. I imploded.

Now I know how a mentally ill person feels. It's as though you have no control over your actions. Mentally I hit bottom about six moths ago.

Maybe I was hit harder because I had held everything together for so long and thought I was indestrucatable. Who knows?

Uphill is right. There is no reason to doubt yourself, but I know that it is much easier said than done.

I just wanted you to know that you are not alone and there are many male MBers who feel as you do. For the ones who have already been there, we can tell you that you can survive this.

Take each day at a time. Take care of yourself. Eat right. Get sleep. Exercise to relieve the huge stress. Otherwise it'll start to eat on you.

I'm not always here on a daily basis anymore but others are so post. Use MB as that giant anonymous group session that it is.

I wish you well,

Mac

<small>[ December 03, 2004, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: cwmac ]</small>

Thanks to everyone who has responded. There is so much more to my situation than I have told and I don't know if I should tell it or not. It will probably just bore everyone and I don't want to sound like I want everyone's pity.

Mac, you hit a sore spot when you talked about crying. I want to cry but I can't. I want to scream and yell but I am not that kind of person. I want to look the other man up and kick his butt good, but he is 75 miles away and I know that it won't really do any good.

I have so many conflicting emotions going on that my nerves are simply overloaded.

I am at the stage that where I have basically thrown myself at her in an attempt to get her back. I have given her flowers, sent cards and emails, called her 2 or 3 times a day just to tell her I am thinking about her and love her and a lot of other things. She is basically non-responsive except when she "blows off steam" and starts complaining about me not taking her somewhere, or this place being boring, or I am not "making" my 20 year old son clean his room. I could add a littany of other things which I am sure to her are major items but in my mind just mask something else.

I am just about at the point of giving up and telling her - just do what you want, I don't care any more. And, that frame of mind really scares me. I honestly think that she has some deeper issues that need addressing. I am torn between staying here and being here for her and hoping she comes out of it, or leaving and letting her deal with reality.

I have never been like this - but I am in a situation where I simply don't see a good solution to anything. I know it is probably me, but I just can't see a good solution.

P.S. My real name is Rick. Please feel free to call me that if I am not being too forward.

RHR:

I think that part of her "blowing off" at you is because many WS have to vilify their BS in order to make the A palatble. The BS is some unholy b*st*rd or frosty b*tch who has done absolutely nothing for the WS. It's all part of the mental reconciling that goes on, and is really part of the self-protection mode we all have.

Self preservation. WS do it; BS do it, too.

In fact, self preservation is the essence of the Plan B. The BS is essentially preserving their dignity and self worth, sort of like one is saying, "I CAN survive without you. I have inherent value and worth, and it is not dependant on what the WS thinks at any moment."

The key to Plan B is to maintain your own mental health. You cannot make the WS love you or want to be with you; you can only make yourself someone who is desirable to be with. You are making yourself an attractive person.

An attractive person does not throw themselves at others. An attractive person is someone we all want to be with; their own high self esteem conveys that they are self confident and seek to fulfill their own happiness. They do not rely on others to do it.

So, at this time, you have to cool down. Have some "Rick time". Work on your own being. Become involved in your community. Develop hobbies and interests. Soon, you will see that you are indeed an attractive person, and you will see that there are many, many other people who like to be with you.

The end result is that your WS may see your intrinsic self worth, and come to appreciate you all the more. Certainly more than when you're pathetically chasing her, trying to prove that you're good enough for her. In fact, it turns the tables and now she has to demonstrate to you that she's good enough for you!

Notice this is not about hating your WS. It is about detaching your self identity from her estimation of it, because she is a human being and can make mistakes. She has made a mistake in denying your value and worth; when she comes to see that you want to be able to at least consider welcoming her back into your life. But, this time as someone who will respect you, and like you for who you are.

It is a win-win situation, for you at least. If your WW comes around, she'll be coming to someone whom she loves and admires. If she doesn't, then at least you will be able to get on with your life. You will survive this; someone - perhaps your WW, perhaps someone new - will see the value in you.

Rick,
Looks like you just signed on, so please be aware that the first 2 months after Dday are the worst.

I have talked to her about going on anti-depressants

You going on them or her? Maybe you should...I did and it helped mucho. Helps you cope with the day to day.

Is the A still going on? If so, it must end of course. You can become pro-active and expose to the OM's spouse if he is married.

Is she willing to end it? Is she remorseful? Does she want to commit to the marriage?

How can I retrieve my manhood?

Dude, look down there...it is still there! Its not about your manhood. Its about some EN that the undertaker was supplying to her, then the endorphines and other chemical phereomes started saturating her brain and the FOG settled in and she was in her fantasy world, where he was the guru.

IT IS NOT ABOUT YOUR MANHOOD!! That's what us manly men who are so tough, calloused, insensitive, just plain blind emotionally always think its about.

Get the book "His Needs/Her Needs" and read it. Stay strong.

k

I want to thank everyone who has responded to my post. You have helped more than you know. If nothing else, just blowing off some steam through these posts helps.

Several of you said not to throw myself at her and I know, really I knew - that was the wrong thing to do, it simply justified the A in her mind. She had talked for several weeks about Divorce before I found out about the A and then she wanted to "not lose the respect of the kids." I kept thinking, "What the hell about my respect?" But later I realized she doesn't care about my respect at all.

Lately, she has began talking about all of the "problems" she has with our marriage and how we are probably not meant for each other.

I am bouncing between the "hurt" and the "angry" stages and bordering on "I don't care." Just this morning she was giving me "down the country" about some "major" thing I had done like didn't iron 4 of my shirts when I did the laundry last night - or something like that. I told her that I had a right to be hurt and angry too - and while I was stepping up and trying to do the things she is complaining about, she is doing nothing to help my feelings.

I don't know if I should have done that but maybe it got through.

Please, everyone - let me know if I am doing the wrong things.

Rick,

I have to say that "Uphill" is just about right on the mark....you're "normal" in how you feel....

My XW did the same exact thing in 1999 without EXCEPTION. I tried everything to get her to change her mind...I had no idea that she already had her affiar, she was actually in withdrawal during the "speeches:....My problem was that I would not cooperate with her divorce plans....was not an option in my life....the ensuing 5 years were an absolute HORROR...More than once I sat in our bedroom, door locked...her having just told me she did not love me and there was "no hope"...with a loaded .30 - .06 rifle barrel in my mouth....my children were the only thing that stopped that mess...

So I seperated myself from her...and my boys...VERY BAD CHOICE....lead a seperate life...She had an EA that I demanded end (it did but she worked with him)...I just ran away...ALONE...I was lonely and wanted an affair but could never do it...

One day I came home from work and was greeted by the police who tossed me from my home..."I was unstable"...the filings said...we divorced last year....I was further crushed....talk about crying...talk about your world caving in...I gave her the option of not filing the papers..she filed...Even after it was official I reminded her "It will always be on the table"...even when that old EA went to a PA.......but I had to remove myself and stop having her see me pathetic...and I was....less than 2 hours sleep...lost 70 pounds... (from 230 to 160!!)....when I had my boys and was consumed with her activties while I had them the boys suffered...I could not as much as speak to her...I was a mess...a divorced man hung up on his XW.....YUK.. a real prize....


and when I finally resolved myself that we were done (at her choosing)....that I began to date...I let some someone in...but they were seond best to my XW....

Fast forward to now...we're reconciling...all of the facts had to come to light...We are both different now and in counseling still....D-Day was just over 5 months ago....for an affair that ended 5 years ago. (did not make it any easier my friend).
My bitterness and anger is overwhelming sometimes but that solves nothing.

So again...listen to Uphill....I reads some of this stuff an only wish I knew of it when I was going through my hell.....

Rick,

I'm in 'Bama too.

My situation is pretty different from yours, but if you are in north AL, maybe we could round up some other MB guys and get together sometime.

Outside of the marriage problems, we do have some things in common. My Mom died about 2 years ago. I lost my job (after 20+ year at the same company) 3 years ago.

You can email me at mb11094@yahoo.com.

-AD

<small>[ December 06, 2004, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

RHR,

I really understand what you are feeling. Getting back to your main post up there. I would like you to understand that you are human and you do not have to be calloused, rough and tough etc. because you are a man. You do have your manhood and you are allowed to cry. So let it out. Keeping it in will cause you more harm than good. Your body can only handle so much strss before it breaks down. Start listening to your body. Just don't be abusive. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

The feelings that a person goes through is basically a roller coster of emotions. One day you might feel good, the next it comes crashing down and you don't want to get out of bed. Then you have the famous crappy triggers that will ruin your day in a flash. I cannot tell you how to deal with them because I have a hard time with them still. Just be prepared about your feelings and accept them.
As for ADHD? One good thing that came out of my H. A. was that during my IC, I was diagnosed with ADD. It felt soooo good to know that I am not a true "bubble" head. That there was a name behind my aloofness. I was on meds until we switched our insurance. We are in a waiting period before the new insurance to kick in. Believe me I cannot wait. The ADD meds also helps keep me focused as well as working as anti-depressant for me.
Do you excercise? If not, I suggest you do. It is a great stress relief. Even if it is just walking around the neighborhood or if you have a dog, walk him for about twenty minutes a day. You both will benefit from it.
Every person is different and deals with betrayal in different ways. The bottom line is that BETRAYAL hurts and it sucks.

Just continue to post here and we will try to help as much as we can. You are not boring us with your story.

Ali~

RHR,

Lately, she has began talking about all of the "problems" she has with our marriage and how we are probably not meant for each other.

Pure "FOGBABBLE", heard by most of the BSs on MB.

It is frightening how the different WSs say the same thing WORD FOR WORD!!

k

Isn't that a true statement! As different as they are, their words are almost dialoged as if it was a secret WS meeting.

You have to realize and this is still hard for me to swallow, is that your W, like most typical of the WS, are in so much of a fog. They came back and are only in it for themselves. They blame the BS for the A. They cannot see the damage or the lack of respect because they cannot come to grips with themselves yet. I really wanted to beat my H. over head a lot because he was not seeing the pain and suffering that he had done to me.

The best thing to do is be patient. Do somthings for yourself. DO NOT tip toe around her. What is this about not ironing 4 shirts? Are they your shirts????? Also read if you can. I know with ADHD it will be hard to stay on track with all that is happening. But read books like How to Survive an affair. His needs/ her needs. Go to Barnes and Noble or another store and pick through the relationship section and plant your butt down and start reading. I did that. I got a lot of insite and a lone time to figure out what "I" needed at the time.

Stay focused on your day to day things. Write down a list after work on what you would like to do or what you have to do and stick to the list. This way it will help you stay focused and keep you busy.

Ali!

I am going to attempt to respond to several comments and answer several questions in this post.

krusht -
--------------
I have talked to her about going on anti-depressants

You going on them or her? Maybe you should...I did and it helped mucho. Helps you cope with the day to day.
------------------
No, about her going on them. Her response is "I don't want to have to take drugs just to live here." My initial response is "Neither do I." However, after thinking about it - I don't want her to have to do that either and I hope I am not such a bad person that she would.

-------------

How can I retrieve my manhood?

Dude, look down there...it is still there! Its not about your manhood. Its about some EN that the undertaker was supplying to her, then the endorphines and other chemical phereomes started saturating her brain and the FOG settled in and she was in her fantasy world, where he was the guru.

--------------

I know physically everything is ok --- I have never had a problem in that area. Maybe instead of manhood I should have asked, "How can I get back my feelings of self worth?" I know in my heart of hearts that I am not a bad person. I have never - and will never - abuse her in any way - physically, mentally, verbally or sexually. I know logically that somewhere someone special will love me for who and what I am. (You will just have to trust me that I can make someone very, very happy.) The problem seems to be that the one person I most want to love me is the one who thinks I am not worthy - for what ever reason she has.

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Fortunately, I have never considered suicide. In my mind that is the coward's way out. It solves nothing and causes even more pain for those left behind. I know - someone I was very close to did that.
------------

To those who said in one way or another - get some time for yourself. Thank you! That is one of those things that you know, you know that you know but don't think about until someone says something and you say "I knew that." Can you follow that? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I know I need a break and am just hanging in there until I can get away and go visit my Dad for a few days.

I play sax in the church orchestra and in 3 additional groups around Birmingham. So, that keeps me a little busy.

I am also working on my PhD which takes up some time. The problem is that I haven't been able to fill 100% of my day.

Now, for all of those who will read the last few lines and say - "If you would pay more attention to her...." I have to tell you I do these things because of her.

You see, I am a romantic. I love laying in front of the fireplace with dim lights and soft music playing and just snuggling. She doesn't like that.

I like going for walks and just being with her. But, when we do she acts like it is a marathon race and does "power walking."

I like going to the mall just to walk around. But, she would rather stay home.

For so many years I thought we were just opposites - you know different - but now, I believe that she just doesn't want to be with me.

I guess my emotions and moods are swinging wildly and right now I am being nostalgic.

-------------

To those who said to eat right - I am trying to do just that - and at the same time lose a little weight - not much about 15 pounds.

-------------

Folks, I honestly want to thank you for responding to my posts. As I said before, it does me good just to be able to put into words, even as poorly as I do, what I am feeling. It is also tremendously beneficial to hear from so many of you that you felt - feel - are experiencing the same things. At least I know I am not alone - or strange. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Now for the better part of this post ---

I am not going to preach to you but I am a Christian and believe that Christ will see me through this. I don't know why He allowed this to happen but I know when it is all over, I will be a better person. I will keep faith in Him.

----------

Again folks, thank you so very much for taking time to read my rambling posts and thank you even more for caring enough to respond.

Again I say "THANK YOU" to all who have posted and assured me that the emotional roller-coaster I am on is normal.

It has been 2 months and 2 days since D-DAY. I would like to tell you that we have began reconciling but that isn't the case. My wife seems unresponsive and has buried herself in some work that she does - all day and until she goes to bed at night.

I am not the one who had the A but I have given flowers, gifts, told her over and over that I love her, told her I forgive her for having the A, tried to take her out (go on a date) and many other things but she is simply non-responsive to any of my attempts. For example, when I suggest we go out to eat she replies "We have things here to eat and I would rather not go out." Now, I don't have a problem with that occasionally but when it is every time I ask, I have to wonder.

I have told her over and over that I want to work things out and when she says anything it is either - "OK" or "Sometimes I don't want to work things out." When I call her during the day and tell her “I’m thinking about you and I love you.” All she says is “ok” – if she answers at all.

I guess I am on a downer right now because (1) I don't believe she is really remorseful over the A, (she hasn’t even said she was sorry since I confronted her with it) and (2) I don't see her doing anything positive to help our relationship. My gut feeling and really my fear is that she is just "getting through the holidays" and will tell me she wants a divorce some time after the first of the year. That makes me feel like a fool for even trying.

QUESTION: How long after D-DAY should I allow before I can expect to see her begin to do anything positive for our relationship? She says, "I washed your clothes." or "I cooked your diner." But it isn't like I don't and haven't done that too. Maybe this is the guy in me but I'm sorry, just because you cook diner that 4 of us eat doesn't mean that I take it as you doing something for me.

I make this next statement maybe because I am on a downer right now but, I am almost at the point of giving up. That is something that is so totally unlike me that it is somewhat scary. But, it is the way I feel.

Am I wrong to feel this way? Am I missing something? Or, am I reading the situation correctly?

God, I want this to work out! What do I do?

Rick,

Just wanted you to know I read your old thread.

Some of the things you are saying resonate with me. You got my email, but just in case you check in here, I wanted to leave a note.

-AD

Well, it finally happened. A couple of nights ago she finally told me that she wants a divorce. Her words were "I think you have known for a long time what my feelings are. This should not be a surprise to you." I am broken inside. I don't know how much more hurt I can take and I guess it is better if we split. I love this woman with every fiber in my body but love is a 2-way street and she obviously doesn't love me now. My hopes are (1) we can split with something like civility, and (2) that she will come to her senses and come back.

I know I have made mistakes and I have done things I shouldn't and not done things I should. But, honestly neither has she. However in all things, I may be angry or hurt for a little while but I have always forgiven her for anything. The greatest hurt to me is that she seems to not be able to do this and lets things build up inside her until she simply can't get over something. She won't go to counseling and she says she doesn't want things to work out between us. I don't want a divorce to happen, yet to hear her tell it she hasn't been in love with me for 25 years and if I were doing things differently she wouldn't want a divorce.

The last several months have been pure hell for me and one part of me says "at least it will soon be over." But, I still don't want a divorce. I want her to come back to me and our relationship and marriage become something like a fairy tale. I guess that is just a fairy tale. :|

Again, I a dying inside and I don't know where we go from here. Any help or thoughts?