Hi Holiday,

The councelor didn't say anything that helped. I think it was just venting and having her validate my feelings. I meet with her alone today.

The best thing she said to me yesterday was that I don't have to stay in this marriage. She reminded me that biblically I can leave and nobody can say anything about it. She said lots of people do leave...this isn't for everyone.

That actually made me feel better because I realized I do have several choices. I don't HAVE to stay and be unhappy. Now of course there is the option of staying and being happy. That is what I'd like most, but am afraid...and rightfully so. So anyway just having my feeling validated is really all I needed I guess. I know you guys have always been helpful here, but I'm afraid that my negative post will only affect your positive growth. I don't want to be a downer.

Thanks for being here and I'm glad everyone is getting through this. Rocked - I'm NOT READY TO LAND. Circling is much more safe than a crash landing!

God Bless

2-You are never a downer. Use us to help lift you up when you need us. I look at the double negatives as a positive.
Push through. If you still can find love for your H, stay with it. If you can't, yes, move on.

True,
I would think the theme parks would allow you to wear a safety helmet if you feared getting hurt. Their whole business is to please the customer.

I am in your same boat, with all of the same questions and issues, including my feelings about scarring the kids and how I wanted to comfort him when he first told me the truth. I don't know what to do. His affair has been on and off for the last two years.

Welcome Sward...
How long has it been since you found out?

Good morning everyone!
I have been reading (of course, my favorite pastime,ha) a book called Love and Respect. It is a very enlightening book on how we as men and women in relationships tend to forget that each of us is extremely different in the way we communicate to each other.

I didn't realize how disrepectful I may have been to my H by what this book has told me. It incorporates Scripture which make sense. In the Bible it talkes about what to expect from a man and what to expect from a woman. I feel in today's society, with the feminist act, that woman now "think" they should run the show. When that happens we don't show respect in our H's strength and needs, he gives up on loving us the way we want to be loved and a vicious cycle begins.

After an A, we tend to really have no respect at all and feel the WS needs to "earn" it. Won't happen. I feel we should try to "unconditionally respect" our H's and for you Rocked, "unconditionally love" our W's. Hard pill to swallow. Someone needs to end the cycle or we can't progress.

Okay, enough of my soapbox for today...peace.

I found out just about three weeks ago.

Hey all! Today my little sad face is not about the affair--thank goodness. I am just writing to ask that you pray for my family as we are having a huge battle with sickness. The kids are VERY sick, and it is definitely something I don't need!
Anyway, I hope everybody had a great day. I will reply to our newbie tomorrow, but let me say welcome. I wish you didn't have to be here, but since you are, please take advantage of all the wonderful resources they have on this site!
True

Hey Guys,

Here is the thought for today. I started reading Willard's book His Needs, Her Needs. I got into chapter 2 and found myself depressed by what I was reading. Not helping AT ALL! (Did anyone read this book?)

Anyway, I got a call today from a Pastor friend of ours from way back. I started discussing the book with him and he threw out an idea that I hadn't heard expressed anywhere. I really liked what he had to say and was wondering what your guys take is on this.

He told me that God did not design husbands and wives to "meet each others needs". He said it is not a biblical concept at all and challenged me to find where in the Bible it says we are to meet each others needs. He said we are to do the things the Bible says, Love each other, honor each other, be faithful, forsake others till death do us part (you know...our wedding vows). He said that we are to equip and encourage each other, just like our friends in their personal relationship with the Lord. He said we are to encourage our spouses to get their needs met NOT BY US, but by GOD. I personally thought that was brillant.

As some of you know I have REFUSED to take ANY responsiblity in my husband's affair. I think this is why. When my husband wasn't meeting my needs (during his A) I went to the Lord for comfort and encouragement. God made me feel worthy when my husband did not. HE made me feel special when my husband wasn't around to pay attention to me. God made me feel loved when my husband was too busy loving himself to think of me. My needs where not met and I let God fill them in me. That is what is supposed to happen. I am NOT responsible for my spouses happiness...really. My husband had every reason to be happy (and I believe he was) when he started his affair. It was sin. It wasn't because I didn't meet his needs, it wasn't because he wasn't happy, it was because he did not let God fill his hurts and meet his needs...not me.

I promised this pastor friend not to read the book anymore and not to look to ANY secular books for advice on how to be a wife. I promised him that I would look to the BIBLE to learn how to be a wife and a child of God. It brought me great encouragement.

He also spoke to my husband at length today to share the same concept with him and encourage him in other ways. My husband and I have agreed on this from the beginning. His A had nothing to do with what I was or was not doing and that he was perfectly happy in his marriage (for the most part) when he began his A. He lost his focus on God, became enticed and sinned...plain and simple.

What do you guys think about this concept? God did not give us spouses to meet each others needs. Instead we are only to honor our vows and encourage each other in our relationship with the Lord. Feedback.

2-I don't agree with your Pastor, that is not completely...I think he might be "tickling" your ears to something you want to hear...that you were not at fault to any of this...at all.

I have read His Needs, Her Needs and it does contain some valid points. Perhaps you might read Love and Respect/The Love She Most Desires/The Respect He Desperately Needs by Dr Emerson Eggerichs. It runs hand in hand with Scripture and what God had planned for us in marriage. It also describes why people may stray.

I do agree that the happiness of our spouses does depend on themselves first. As far as your Pastor's comment: He told me that God did not design husbands and wives to "meet each others needs". He said it is not a biblical concept at all and challenged me to find where in the Bible it says we are to meet each others needs. You may like to show him: GENESIS 2:18-And the Lord God said, "It isn't good for man to be alone; I will make a companion for him, a helper suited to "his needs". Note: It only talked about meeting "his" needs (I think this is where the feminist act got heated.)

Makes you think. Actually, this whole book makes you think. That is why I stated in my last post about "unconditional respect" for our H's. Women can become so righteous today and forget to listen to or include their H's counsel. We think "we" have to do it "all" and most of the time "think" we "know" it all. I have acted with this type of disrespect many a time, which closes any communication with our spouses...may make them look else where for "admiration" etc.

An yes, our H's sinned, but for how long does one hold another's sin over ones head? It is up to them to find the path to God. And I don't think our pushing and prodding them will help. They need to do it on their own time and with our guidance not our criticism. PROVERBS 3:7-"Don't be wise in your own eyes." But, if we don't see them trying, perhaps that is the time we must move on.

2-To me it doesn't sound like you've really been able to move forward with an open heart...well, not just yet. I'm worried that until you do or you choose to, your M will be the battle of your life.

You're in my prayers.

The Bible also sais for husbands to love their wife. I think the real point of His Needs, Her Needs is to get the message accross that different people feel loved in different ways. This book isn't the only one desined to open our eyes to this point. The Five Love Languages is another book on the same lines. The point is that if anyone is following the golden rule and doing unto others the way they want to be treated then that may not be what will show love to them. How to Win Friends and Influince People puts it this way. You may like strawberries a lot, but when you go fishing you are likely to use worms as bate which I doubt you would like for yourself. But you are putting yourself in their shoes and finding out what they like regardless of what you like. My husband is a nice enough guy but when He treats me the way he would like to be treated then I don't feel loved. He is not very affectionate and I feel unloved with even a few inches between us for example. If you are clueless about what the other person needs to feel loved or how to get there then these other books can give you tools to get to the point where you are living as God intended, as one flesh.

Good Morning RB...
That is precisely what I am saying.

I woke up this morning and felt that I needed to add, 2-your Pastor is correct concerning our relationship with God. Our relationship with Christ is what makes our M/relationship with one another work for the better. And I do feel we need to help one another, not to just sit back and think God will do all of this for us ACTS 17:11.

We do need the help of each other to help to fulfill each others needs. It is a continual process. Just because we have vows between us, doesn't mean we don't need to contribute in the marriage and that the marriage vows will be kept. I have seen this when I read about a "strong in his faith" Christian man/woman falls into the trap of an A. I think "how could that be? when he follows the path of Christ"? We need to use the tools these books have to offer. To communicate how we need to be loved and respected.

Our relationship with our spouses whether they choose to do the same, is "our" path to heaven.

2,
I am glad other people have said the same things that I had planned to say. I think you have only opened yourself to listen to those things that support YOUR ideas about what you should do and forget others. In fact, I think that you will look at these responses not as insight to your sitch, but as confused people.
First let me say, that I, like you, take no responsibility for my H's actions. In my sitch, I came to the realization that he would have had it with someone b/c of his desire to be with another woman. I just always believed that he would have convinced me someday to be involved. However, the HNHN book made me understand how he could havve started to feel love for her. She WAS meeting some very important needs for him, and I believe that those feelings were genuine feelings. Everyone, including you want to make those feeling untrue, that they were just a justification for something, but if that is the truth, then we must all go through some sort of fog when we first fall in love with anybody. It hurts like hell to say that, but it's true. My H felt SOMETHING for another woman, and I must accept that.
Now as for what your pastor friend told you; it saddens me as a Christian. You and your pastor friend sound like you are soo into serving/worshiping God that you are forgetting that in serving you also need to LISTEN to him and do what he wants! Do you think that he would want you to harden your heart like this towards your H, to say you are not there to meet his need? He gave Eve to Adam as a "helper" He expected her to be there to help him live his life and grown emotionally, physically, AND spiritually! Humans were put on Earth to worship God, yes, but they were also put her to be a community towards each other. Part of being a community is meeting each others needs!
OK, I also need to say one more thing, and I KNOW this is going to tick you all off, but it needs to be said from me. I am a Christian, BUT I do not believe that the bible is a marriage guide. If it were, 2, then you better even stop thinking about leaving your man, b/c woman are second class people in it. I believe, and maybe some people who are better at this will correct me, but I beleive that when it talks of leaving your spouse for adultery, it gives permission to the man, NOT the woman. I won't get into my beliefs about the bible, because I know that they would offend you all.
2, I think you should read, As for me and my House, by Walter Wangerin. It is not about adultery, but about marriage. It was written by a pastor, so it definitely is Christian based. Some ideas I have expressed here are also in that book. It also has some valuable insights into forgiveness.
I am sorry for being so harsh, I try not to be, BUT I think you are way off base, and if you continue to act so harshly towards your H(yes, you do have some right to) then he will be driven away, and you can't blame him this time!

Holiday,
Good Morning!
Hope all is well with you.
True

Hey Guys! Good morning.

I'm glad to see that I got the ball rolling on this discussion board again! Thanks for all your feedback.

I am a bit surprised by the comments that I was acting "harshly" toward my husband. I don't know where that came across. I had a HORRIBLE last week in preparation for seeing the OW, but now that it is over, I've been fine. I believe that will happen, on and off maybe for quite some time.

The BIBLE speaks first and foremost about forgiveness, love and respect. So that is what I'm focusing on. The bible though condemns adultry (and sooooo many other sins too), but of course offers grace and forgiveness. Isn't that why we are Christians?!

Anyway, I found His Needs, Her Needs to be depressing and I won't read it anymore. He actually says your spouse will always love the OW?! How does he figure that? How does he know who a person will love and not love? That is crazy to me! I don't love any of my past boyfriends. Some of them repulse me! So I just couldn't agree with that from a personal perspective. I think it is wrong.

Anyway, as far as the bible goes woman are not second class citizen. What I love about the bible is we women are put on a pedalstool. Our husbands are to love us as Christ loved the church. There is no other way I'd rather be treated than like that! As far as being submissive is concerned, I whole heartedly believe that. Yes, I am a submissive wife when it comes to my husband's will. For example, I am a firecracker with lots of opinions and beliefs. I express them...all the time. But when push comes to shove about an important decision in our lives my husband makes it whether I agree or disagree. I'm sure you can image from what you know of me there have been many times I"ve disagreed. I can give you several personal examples of this if you want.

Sometimes I believe it is because of me following the BIBLICAL concepts of marriage that allowed my husband to get away with his A as long as he did. When I protested about his job and the "long" hours, I submitted to his desire to work that job and submitted to his desire to start up a small business on the side. I adamantly opposed the small business and presented my case as rationale as possible. He did what he wanted and I was not happy. BUT I accepted his decision and once he made it, I actually supported the small business venture (which has since gone bust) and tried to make life easy by not giving him a hard time about all the "long" hours. Being supportive and submissive. My husband took advantage of the "gift" or "talent" he was given (me) and he will be held accountable to God for that. However, I do believe he has received God's grace because of his repentance and his effort to do better.

I guess the reason why I'm struggling so much with the Needs book is because of what you guys have already said. Everyone's needs are different. I have several female friends who are the sole bread winner for the family. Their husband's don't meet the need for financial support for them. I know many people who have gained considerable weight or physical changes that might not allow for them to be attrative to their spouse (from a worldly stand point) anymore. I think the Love Bank concept was an interesting illustration, but so what?! I don't really see how it is relavant in a Godly marriage.

Anyway, I still think that if as people get too caught up in letting others fill our needs, we can't let God do a work in us. As a wife, I am here to provide my husband with unconditional love (yep, still love him after he cheated on me), support, companionship and respect. I do those things to the best of MY ability. I mean that! If I fall short (which I'm sure I do) then my husband needs to let God take care of it, not expect me to change or let some other woman fill his "needs". So frankly I don't buy it.

The other thing that I am dealing with is my husband continuing to work with the other woman. Willard's book and others tell me I MUST have them stop working together. They must have NO CONTACT. Biblicially it says I must be 1) submissive to my husband and his will 2) wait on God's timing. My husband desires to work there and has moved his office out of her building, but does continue to see her often. So whose right? What do I do about this? Do I want to follow Willard's book or God's? I'm choosing God's.

After the discussion with the pastor friend yesterday I felt much better. Instead of me focusing on meeting my husband's needs, I was able to get back to a place of focusing on ME and getting to that place of forgiveness and trust the Lord is requiring of me. Again, I feel if we focus on God and study HIS word, he will make us the kind of person, spouse, parent we are to be. Not focusing on my husbands "needs" which in my case (as diagnosed by 2 marriage counselors) are excessive and unrealistic to expect any 1 person to meet.

Anyway, thanks for the diologue. I am not angry or upset at all. I was expecting this controversal feedback and wanted to see if anyone was able to swing my opinion. I love a good debate!

Have a blessed day!
2

2,
I had decided not to respond to your post, b/c there is so much that I disagree with in it, and I become very defensive and blunt when I speak of what is/what isn't God's intentions for us. But then I decided that you are right and that people can agree to disagree. That is what I will have to do.

True

<small>[ February 18, 2005, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: truetoself ]</small>

But True, you did respond! (smile) Anyway, hope all is working out for everyone!

Hmmm, 2, I am older and hopefully wiser...but I don't think you really "got" what we were trying to say.
In short also, your female friends who are the "breadwinners", I bet if you asked them, and they spoke the truth, they would tell you that their marriages are truly unhappy.
Please read Love and Respect...with an open heart and mind.
I too don't want to seem harse. You remind me of my girlfriend who continually tries to be an "equal" in her marriage...not possible. H's have more "responsiblility" to fend and care for us. We, wives need to provide a "safe" place for him to come home to, spiritually and physically.
Peace...

Right Holiday, that is why I believe in the structure God created of wives being submissive to their husbands. I agree with you. I'm not sure where you think we disagree.

I have no idea if my friends who are the breadwinner are happy in their marriages. I was happy in my marriage and their clearly were things going on behind the scenes. That is one thing I can guarentee I'll never do again, compare my marriage with others because we just don't know. Not that I ever really did to begin with, but I think sometimes my husband compared me to other wives, both positively and negatively.

Anyway, I've got several books lined up to read, so I'm sure I'll get around to the one you are suggesting.

Got to go! Have a hot date with the hubby tonight.
2

yes, 2, I guess I like a good debate myself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
I am sorry ladies, but I do not believe in the submissive wife thing. I guess I am not showing that by staying with my H, but I believe that a marriage does have to 50/50. That is why this has been tough for me, b/c I know that our relationship is no longer that way.
Maybe this is why my H had an affair, b/c he wanted someone to be submissive, but that is one thing I will not change.
True

Good Morning everyone. Let me just say b-days SUCK! I hate getting older, and I think I just forget the blessings that I DO have on this day and focus on the negative.
I hope you all had a good weekend. We were all sick and tired. I am tired almost all the time now, do you all feel that way?
Sorry I am not so cheerful today. Will check in later to see if anyone is here!
True