<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> It is too bad that you did not pass the test. I would of postpone the test until some stability on my mind. But you could re-take again. <hr></blockquote><p>One shot free upgrade test that had to be taken before 12-30-01. I can smile about this, It's not as important as it was 2-3 months ago. One of the lessons I have learned through this struggle is that nothing is more important to me than my W and M.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Just cherish the moment that you have with her and knowing that she will be back again ... hopefully for more. <p>Did you get wild flower along with nice cards ?
<hr></blockquote><p>On the way home today I was thinking about how much the time I got to spend with her yesterday meant, so I stoped at the local Halmark store and got her a card to let her know. They are still trying to find cars under the snow we got, so the wild flowers didn't make it. Hopefully there will be time for them later, or I may just go to the flower store.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> OM may even be giving her support and advice on restoring her marriage. <hr></blockquote><p>This brings me to some new news. W didn't tell OM that it was me she went to Cheyanne with. She says he only tells her he doesn't want to see her get hurt, but she didn't want to put up with a lecture from him about it. This leads to good and bad questions in my mind.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> SHE IS TRYING TO TELL YOU EXACTLY WHAT SHE WANTS IN ORDER FOR HER TO COME BACK TO YOU!!!!!<p>LISTEN TO HER! This is a GOLDEN opportunity! Take It!
<hr></blockquote><p>I hope you mean she is showing me. She's not saying anything about what needs to be done for her to come back. In fact last time she brought it up I asked, and her reply was "I don't know". That is her reply to all questions about us any more. I'm trying to get past that for now. She says she made a list, but never remembers to bring it to me. I have asked her a couple times to fill out the ENQ to no avail. Life would be so much easier with a target (the list or ENQ). It is so hard when some one says "make me happy", but doesn't tell you how. I'll just continue to read HNHN and make some stuff up I guess. I may not get them in the right order but if I work on all of the "female" EN's I should at least make minor headway. That's what plan A is all about right, me learning to fill all the EN of the one I love?<p>Thanks
Rev<p>[ November 28, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>
It is so hard when some one says "make me happy", but doesn't tell you how.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes she did tell you in the past when she is LB at you ... Also how do you "date" her and court her ? what is her picture of "fantasy" husband or boy freinds ? ... think, think, think of the past you will see it clear. Also probably she had been getting tired of telling you.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>
That's what plan A is all about right, me learning to fill all the EN of the one I love?
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Wrong !. Plan A is to show that you are a changed man or in the process of changing addressing her issues. Some issues are legit (fact) some are excuses (reasoning of A) you have to weed them out and then do it. My WW says I do not love her and I am not capable of loving her ... I work on it, make sure she knows that I am in this shoes because I love her and love my M and she meant that much to me. If WS allows you to fill in EN (horray !!!) you take the opportunity and do it good. This is icing on the cake. Part of the her issues about you might be related directly to her EN, then you shot two bird at once.<p>Read the link below by Distress.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Yes she did tell you in the past when she is LB at you ... Also how do you "date" her and court her ? what is her picture of "fantasy" husband or boy freinds ? ... think, think, think of the past you will see it clear. Also probably she had been getting tired of telling you.<hr></blockquote><p>Good point.<p>
Ok, I had to go looking for this.<p>I'm just trying to make sure I understand, I may not have put the enphasised correctly. take a look and tell me what you think.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Plan A is about you only you. You have to earn her trust back and show that you are working on change and you are capable of change. You are only fullfill her EN when she allows you to, stop when she resents it. <hr></blockquote><p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Wrong !. Plan A is to show that you are a changed man or in the process of changing addressing her issues. <hr></blockquote><p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> That's what plan A is all about right, me learning to fill all the EN of the one I love?
<hr></blockquote><p>Thanks
Rev<p>[ November 28, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

rev,
I just want to stress that the emphasis is on changing not just filling EN. Some issues might not have anything to do with her top EN. Fill'in EN is a must skill to have for your M to survive. You have pass the test w/ flying grade, 101%, now you have to apply (do) it ... [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] LOL !!!.<p>[ November 29, 2001: Message edited by: redhat ]</p>

Sory I didn't get back yesterday. I have been taking and following this great advice.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>RedHat: The trick is get you calendar fill up to the minutes and no idle time <hr></blockquote> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Conqueror: Recreate what attracted her to you originally with the added bonus that you realize you have hurt her and have learned from your mistakes and will correct those character flaws. <hr></blockquote><p>I had lunch with her again. I try to do that every day. She seems to be feeling more at ease around me. I would like to think we may be getting close again and I am begining to believe this is going to work out<p>I still fight the lonely nights, and I hate the fact she's not at least in the house. I know this is where patience comes in. It's just odd thinking so positively and yet not living under the same roof. I know that's how dating works, but after 12 years of living with her I miss her presence in the house at night.<p>Just thought I'd put in an update.<p>Thanks
Rev<p>[ November 30, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by rev:
<strong>
I still fight the lonely nights, and I hate the fact she's not at least in the house. I know this is where patience comes in. It's just odd thinking so positively and yet not living under the same roof. I know that's how dating works, but after 12 years of living with her I miss her presence in the house at night.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Write a good note on a card and let her know how much you miss her and "buckle in " [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] .

WARNING: Massive, undeserved vent.<p>I am going to get so reamed for this, but at this point it has to go somewhere. It wouldn't help my coust to tell the W so I'll tell you.<p>I know I havn't been any where neer perfect, but I am tired of paying for everyone elses fun.<p>I am sick and tired of her living with him. She says she wants to work things out but won't put forth any effort.<p>I have paid all the bills from my two divorces/marriages while they are out having a wonderfull carefree time.<p>I have set at home and taken care of the kids while my W rides on the back of OM's Harley. I have wanted a Harley since I was in high school but have had to be the responsible one and take care of everyone else's finances This gets two strikes: I can't have one, but she gets to have fun on his. (Thats how the whole A started)<p>I want my wife and I to be togeather again, working on a common goal, but I can't spend more than an hour a day with her. She's too busy with her new life and friends. Quite frankly, My hour a day can't stack up to the time she spends elsewhere.<p>I got to go to Wal-Mart with her today. The kids couldn't behave well and she couldn't get off her cell phone down long enough to form a complete sentence. All thoes other things in her life that are more important than me or out marriage.<p>She's wearing new perfume. Somthing else that just twisted the knife.<p>I feel like I get to make a deposite or two a day, but by the time I see her tomarrow someone else has taken them + some out and applied them to their account.<p>I'm tired of taking two steps back for every step forward. All I ask is that she show a little progress in this fight. I'm not sure I can continue at this pace for much longer.<p>And to top it all off she told me today that she thinks this whole emotional needs thing is a load of crap.<p>I eat, sleep, and drink this stuff to try to become a better person, but I'm not seeing any gain. I can be a patient as the next guy when I see progress. I'm willing to plant a stake to see the sun move. But I can't stand to not see progress in some fassion.<p>I guess I didn't realize the toll her living with him would take on her account.<p>I also woke up this morning with a massive case of resentment. When she told me about the A she went on to tell me about a session of sex like we had never had. I can deal with basic sex, but I can't stand the joy she took in relaying it to me, along with the things they did that we couldn't.<p>RedHat, I know "buckle in" and yes, I'm doing my best not to go to her with LBs thats why I put this here.<p>Please forgive me for this rant I just couldn't keep it inside any longer.<p>Thanks
Rev

WARNING: Massive, undeserved vent.<p>I am going to get so reamed for this, but at this point it has to go somewhere. It wouldn't help my cause to tell the W so I'll tell you.<p>I know I havn't been any where neer perfect, but I am tired of paying for everyone elses fun.<p>I am sick and tired of her living with him. She says she wants to work things out but won't put forth any effort.<p>I have paid all the bills from my two divorces/marriages while they are out having a wonderfull carefree time.<p>I have set at home and taken care of the kids while my W rides on the back of OM's Harley. I have wanted a Harley since I was in high school but have had to be the responsible one and take care of everyone else's finances This gets two strikes: I can't have one, but she gets to have fun on his. (Thats how the whole A started)<p>I want my wife and I to be togeather again, working on a common goal, but I can't spend more than an hour a day with her. She's too busy with her new life and friends. Quite frankly, My hour a day can't stack up to the time she spends elsewhere.<p>I got to go to Wal-Mart with her today. The kids couldn't behave well and she couldn't get off her cell phone down long enough to form a complete sentence. All thoes other things in her life that are more important than me or out marriage.<p>She's wearing new perfume. Somthing else that just twisted the knife.<p>I feel like I get to make a deposite or two a day, but by the time I see her tomarrow someone else has taken them + some out and applied them to their account.<p>I'm tired of taking two steps back for every step forward. All I ask is that she show a little progress in this fight. I'm not sure I can continue at this pace for much longer.<p>And to top it all off she told me today that she thinks this whole emotional needs thing is a load of crap.<p>I eat, sleep, and drink this stuff to try to become a better person, but I'm not seeing any gain. I can be a patient as the next guy when I see progress. I'm willing to plant a stake to see the sun move. But I can't stand to not see progress in some fassion.<p>I guess I didn't realize the toll her living with him would take on her account.<p>I also woke up this morning with a massive case of resentment. When she told me about the A she went on to tell me about a session of sex like we had never had. I can deal with basic sex, but I can't stand the joy she took in relaying it to me, along with the things they did that we didn't.<p>RedHat, I know "buckle in" and yes, I'm doing my best not to go to her with LBs thats why I put this here. Right now I just want to curl up and die.<p>Please forgive me for this rant. I couldn't keep it inside any longer.<p>I believe they are right. Love/Marriage is an addiction. This one is killing me, but I won't let it go.<p>Thanks
Rev<p>[ December 01, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

rev, if past guilts are not enough for you to do it. Pls do it for yourself. If this M is not saveable, the burden will not be on you. Yes you made mistakes in the past but you have learned and you have changed. You could move on with peace within you, also you will be come more attractive and irresistable [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] .<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>And to top it all off she told me today that she thinks this whole emotional needs thing is a load of crap.</strong><hr></blockquote>
All WS rejects the notion of EN since it will invalidate their romantic fantasy of "in love". My WW say "that EN is very interesting concept but it doesn't apply to our relations."<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I eat, sleep, and drink this stuff to try to become a better person, but I'm not seeing any gain. I can be a patient as the next guy when I see progress. I'm willing to plant a stake to see the sun move. But I can't stand to not see progress in some fassion.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes you should see it ... not in her, it is in you. If you are better and improve "rev" then you should give yourself a pad on the back. At least she is open a bit to you, talk to you and also checking up on you. I do not know how bad you are before but I think a couple of days of plan A and understanding of EN, your W starts checking up on you ...that is a progress.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I also woke up this morning with a massive case of resentment. When she told me about the A she went on to tell me about a session of sex like we had never had. I can deal with basic sex, but I can't stand the joy she took in relaying it to me, along with the things they did that we didn't.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I thought she is only doing it twice and both are very sorry ... LMAO !!! ... sorry, after a few cups of wine getting the better part of me. She is out there in the fog, and the joy for her is "revenge". Her A is a revenge A, she is pulling the string and see your reactions. I would say "honey that is very interesting but at this point in time I would rather not talk about it since you would not want it with me.". In plan A it doesn't mean that you could not push back, you just have to know how to push back w/o LB.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>RedHat, I know "buckle in" and yes, I'm doing my best not to go to her with LBs thats why I put this here. Right now I just want to curl up and die.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Good no LB !, this forum keeps many of us "sane". Yes, cry, scream, kick, vent in here ... there are many of us read it but do not have time to reply (silent supports) to all.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Yes you should see it ... not in her, it is in you. If you are better and improve "rev" then you should give yourself a pad on the back. <hr></blockquote> I know that I need to change and grow so that I can provide for the EN of the one I love (whoever that ends up being), but isn't both your goal and mine to save our current marriage? This is the progress I would like to see. I know "patients". I just needed to vent for a bit. I'll try to keep my head togeather.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I thought she is only doing it twice and both are very sorry ... <hr></blockquote>
True, this was the story of the first time it happend. This also goes back to when she first revealed the A and before I found this site. I'm having a hard time letting go. I know time will ease this pain. Along with new memories we can create togeather.<p>EDIT<p>Just spent about an hour with her. We had a good talk. NO LBs from either of us. I asked her to fill out the ENQ again. She agreed to do it.<p>Says she has a lot of resentment to let go of. I agree. Unfortunately resentment can take years to let go of and I can't go on like this for years. A couple months mabey, but not years. I have to look on the bright side, she is working on it very hard. I don't think I can ask for more than that. I caused the pain, I wish I could live through it for her. I wish I could help somehow.<p>I've bee reading MB about resentment, it looks like time is the only "cure". Let me know if I missed somthing. As always ideas apreciated.<p>[ December 02, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by rev:
<strong>
I've bee reading MB about resentment, it looks like time is the only "cure". Let me know if I missed somthing. As always ideas apreciated.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>It is time and very full filling M will heal it. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> It is time and very full filling M will heal it. <hr></blockquote>I'm tryin' man, I'm tryn'.<p>Been a day so I thought I would catch up. <p>I managed to drag myself out of the anger and depression I was in Sat.<p>I'm trying to get passed the living apart thing.<p>W Kids and I are going to drive around and look a Christmas lights tonight. Things are going better.<p>Still working plan A and keeping the LBs to a minimum.<p>I think I'm headed down a hill on this coaster. I know I'm probably headed for another up hill, but I got to enjoy this while I got it.

rev,
This experience is the most inhumane treatment you could put on your SO. If you need medication to help you out, go and see your primary care. All you need to tell them is that you need a medication, probably anti big D, you have M problem. They are trained and probably you are not the first one asking for this. I have to get stomach medication, my stomach feel twisted and upset when I think this cruelty. Physically, each person has a unique way of coping this cruelty. I might ask my doctor for some anti D if this going on too long, I am seeing him on January. Definitely I need it for plan B.<p>You need healthy mind and body to work on your M.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by redhat:
<strong>rev,
This experience is the most inhumane treatment you could put on your SO. If you need medication to help you out, go and see your primary care. </strong><hr></blockquote> I have been on Prozac for about two weeks. It should be about built up in my system.<p>I do want to make a note here. The "anger and depression" I spoke of was related to the "vent" about 4 posts back.(My "vent" posted December 01, 2001 05:35 PM) I put on my game face when she is around, as I don't want to let my emotions get in the way. As I said in that post. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>It wouldn't help my cause to tell the W so I'll tell you. <hr></blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> managed to drag myself out of the anger and depression I was in Sat.
<hr></blockquote>Was just my way of saying I'm feeling better after that post.<p>One more note.
I apreciate the support from all of you<p>[ December 04, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

RedHat,<p>Please explain "The Fog".<p>I just heard the most amazing string of words.<p>"I promis we are going to get back togeather, I realy want to work this out, but I'm not moving back home."<p>You got it, I managed to have it out with the W. I couldn't keep it togeather at all. I had to take the kids to the OM's place tonight. If you ever have the opprotunity to do somthing so insanely stupid, DON"T. I thought I could just drive them over and drop them off. I pulled up and saw in the front window. (Insanity Starts Here) She was sitting there watching TV with OM. I thought "Well isn't that nice. Shouldn't I be the one doing that?" That's when I lost it.<p>I deserve everything I get for this.

rev,
I have to pick up my kid from rehearsal but I will check in later tonight. Basically, "The Fog" is a BS rationalization of WS behavior which is NONE OF IT MAKE SENSE. BS just call it "in the fog" because selfishness take the better part of WS, the could run over you and they care less. We named it so that it will help lessen the pain. You just got one of the fogese line. Yep ... if you want to talk, email me. I will be in later tonight.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I deserve everything I get for this.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>No, nobody deserve this treatment, I would lost it too. I did similar thing, I know she lied and going to OM but I follow her anyway. I LB'ed when thing getting hot but later when I listen to their reaction (voice recorder I put in the car) to my LB it wake make me up. They made fun of my LB and OM used it to prove his point and degraded me. My WW's words & laughs with OM put a knife on my heart. I made a promise to my self that I will never LB. It is WW's choice to have A and to continue to have them, I will have my saying on plan B. Whenever I want to LB I remember their laugh, it helped me several times. Hang in there ... all we can do is let time heal us and hope the 'coaster will go up again.<p>[ December 05, 2001: Message edited by: redhat ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by redhat:
I LB'ed when thing getting hot<hr></blockquote>
Yes, I did that too. I called her after this last night and apologised for getting upset. I told her I hadn't changed the way I feel, but I shouldn't have gone off the way I did.<p>We're meeting for lunch again today, we'll see what happens.<p>[ December 05, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

rev,
keep us posted, tell how you lunch goes ... I hope you do well.<p>- [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] hxk

Another good mood strikes.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by redhat:
<strong>rev,
keep us posted, tell how you lunch goes ... I hope you do well.<p>- [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] hxk</strong><hr></blockquote>
Lunch went well. I even got a call afterword, thanking me for having lunch with her.<p>I think I learned a little fogese. We talked about living arangements. She said she wasn't ready to move back in. I said "Ok, don't move back in, just start spending the night". She's thinking about this.<p>I'll add to this later.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by rev:
<strong>...I said "Ok, don't move back in, just start spending the night". She's thinking about this.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>LMAO !!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] Hey, who said that BS could not have fun too ?. WS is not thinking straight ... half want OM and the other half want BS. Also if you ask when WW is with you you might get a better reply than when OM is on her side listening. I got my WW stayed 2 nights in the rows, and last night my D saw OM car circling around book store that they went to. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ... baby steps, even half step but it moving forward [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ... hmm let OM think if WW also SF ... let the table turn a bit.