<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by redhat:
<strong>... baby steps, even half step but it moving forward [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ...</strong><hr></blockquote>Progress is progress, and I'll take whatever I can get. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I can return to being patient again for a while, now that I've seen this.<p>RedHat,<p>When the fogese came out of my mouth I thought "RedHat's gona love that one". On that note, she says she's thinking about staying here tonight. Once again I'm on top of the world. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] She may decide not to stay tonight and I'll crash again, [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] but I have to keep looking at the positive.<p>It's the memories of the good times that drag us kicking and screaming through the bad times. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Almost forgot this.
OM has quirks that don't sit well with WW, and WW has quirks that don't sit well with OM. I couldn't have be happier when he told me this. I didn't show it, but I was thrilled.<p>[ December 05, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by rev:
<strong>Almost forgot this.
OM has quirks that don't sit well with WW, and WW has quirks that don't sit well with OM. I couldn't have be happier when he told me this. I didn't show it, but I was thrilled.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
You mean you have contact with OM ?, just curious how you could keep your coolness. Most of A has a serious flaw on it, WW's shows it too. Just wait, A will dies naturally. One other point that I saw from many poster that before WS "out of the fog" completely the frequency & the duration of up/down or in/out of the fog increases. Thus be ready with sweet and sour from one moment to another. IMHO, this is 'cause WS is trying to select which avenue to go.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> You mean you have contact with OM ?, <hr></blockquote>No, She told me this.<p>2:11 am, she didn't even call to say she waasn't comming.

rev,
It is because she has to leave from OM and come to you. Sh is not ready yet, just be patience. Next meeting w/ her just ask her why she didn't come and could she come tonite ?. If she is w/ you then decided to stay you will have more chances. Remember no LB !!!. Your ride is faster and shorter cycle between up/down ... it is actually good. You make her off balance or confused.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by redhat:
<strong>rev,
Next meeting w/ her just ask her why she didn't come and could she come tonite ?.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I saw her this morning and asked why she didn't show up. She said she drove past last night, but just didn't stop. I guess it was one of those T in the road things where you chose to go one way over another. She at least headed for my place. That's better than just heading straight to his house.<p>I also asked that she call if she isn't comming over so I don't wait up all night. She said she would.<p>She may come over tonight. I'll admit that it is getting harder to be optimistic about it at this point, but I keep trying. I'm not going up today like I did yesterday. I just hope I don't fall as hard if she doesn't show up again.<p>Last night the boys and I had Happy Meals for dinner. (I don't eat as much as I used to) We all got little stuffed lions with our dinners. I took mine over and put it on the dash of her car. It didn't go over as well as the moose a few days back, but she did call and say thank you. I told her I knew it wasn't much, I just wanted her to know I was thinking about her.<p>[ December 06, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

rev,<p>How about writing a nice "I missed you last night" card and place it on her car so that when she is going home tonite she could go directly to you [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ?. Or even offer to pick her up from work and leave her car there overnight ?.
I know it is very hard but keep it up, if she comes it is a bonus. If she call to cancel it ask her to stop by for coffee [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . How is other aspect of your plan A beside affections ?. What are her top complaints against you ?. Family supports I guess you are doing good, you are taking care of the kids.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by redhat:
<strong>What are her top complaints against you ?. Family supports I guess you are doing good, you are taking care of the kids.</strong><hr></blockquote>She never filled out the ENQ so I'm still guessing as to order.<p>1. (Conversation) She is begining to talk to me about things in her life more every day. I make it a point to ask how she's doing and what's going on in her life, and to be intrested in her answers. I try not to "solve all her problems", but to empathise with her.
2. (Openness/Honesty) I refuse to say anything that isn't 101%+ truthefull and I let her know every time there is a change in my plans.
3. (Domestic Support) She's not at the house but the kids and I have been keeping it clean. doing dishes and the like.
4. (Family Commitment) The kids keep me going, but I enjoy the time I spend with them more now than ever. I make it a point to spend specific time with each of them doing somthing we enjoy togeather. This may be her number 1 need.
5. (Financial Support) I'm still doing the same job, and still underpaid (35K for a guy that maintains internet connections 24/7 coast to coast via satellite isn't enough and we both know it). I think we can get by here. She works because she wants to. We could live on what I make "here", we couldn't do it any where else in the world, but we can do it "here".
6. (Physical Attractiveness) I'm 5'11" and 165lb. I'm dropping some weight due to stress. Keep clean and neat. don't want to offend anyone.
7. (Recreational Companionship) I try do things she likes with her when she lets me.
8. (Admiration) A weak spot for me. I'm working on ways to accomplish this. Not sure how high it is on her list.
9. (Sexual Fulfillment) High on my list, I think it's the bottom of hers. I'm not pushing this right now. If she's intrested she'll let me know, and I'll do what I can.<p>Suggestions welcome.<p>Thanks
Rev<p>[ December 06, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

Well kids we have good and bad news this morning.<p>She came over for about a half hour after work last night. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I wanted to die when she left. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I know progress is progress, and I'll still take what I can get. I'm still looking at the bright side, so I don't feel as bad as I have about this in the past.<p>More after lunch or later tonight.<p>Thanks
Rev

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by rev:
<strong>
She came over for about a half hour after work last night. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I wanted to die when she left. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p></strong><hr></blockquote><p>Actually this is a huge step and you will see more of this, the 'coaster ride will be faster. I guess you are ready last night. Good job [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>What I meant with complaint is what did she tell you that you have to change or make her very angry and very unhappy ?. Those are your basis for plan A.<p>About your order of EN, think about it the past, what actions that make her uneasy or unhappy and what actions that make her smile and happy. Match it with your list to make the EN's order. Also she might verbally tell you too.<p>Any plan to improve your skill set ?. Cisco certification ?.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Actually this is a huge step <hr></blockquote>This is a huge step, and I am truly greatfull that it happend. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> what did she tell you that you have to change or make her very angry and very unhappy ?. <hr></blockquote> All she says is that she is very angry and resentfull. She says she's staying with him to get over the anger and resentment. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> About your order of EN, think about it the past, what actions that make her uneasy or unhappy and what actions that make her smile and happy. Match it with your list to make the EN's order. <hr></blockquote>We had a long discussion at lunch today. I asked her what she realy wanted. She said: to let all the anger and resentment go, and have a happy marriage. We talked about that for a bit. I told her what you (redhat) told me "Time and a fulfilling M" We talked about what she's gaining from being at OM's house. She said she's getting time to learn not to hate me. We also talked about working togeather. I told her that she worked on our M for a long time by herself, and I am working on it right now, but it won't be what either of us wants untill we both work togeather.<p>She asked for some links on this site, and maby to get C from MB. I was thrilled. I sent her some links about resentment and some SAA stuff. I'm a bit concerned about how she'll take what I've put here, but I have to believe in the PoRH. I just hope she understands how this keeps me on the right track. <p>I'm begining to believe that she realy wants this to work, and is willing to begin working on it with me.<p>Thanks
Rev

rev,
You are close and you could smell it. Be patience, she still love you but like she said "to let all the anger and resentment go, and have a happy marriage", it takes time. She is also probably a married type not typical "fast lane" type.<p>Next meeting ask her to move back for 6 months, no string attach, if she did not like what she see she could move back to OM. States also as long as there is OM & contact the road to recovery (rebuild happy M) is not possible. If she likes "new you" then she have to end A w/ no contact. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>She asked for some links on this site, and maby to get C from MB. I was thrilled. I sent her some links about resentment and some SAA stuff. I'm a bit concerned about how she'll take what I've put here, but I have to believe in the PoRH. I just hope she understands how this keeps me on the right track.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, she see you change but still not sure. I do not blame her for that, keep plan A'ng and lend her your HNHN's book to her. About your posting, you could go back and edit some but you don't have to, let her see you as is. Ask her to to post hre for questions there are some WS here too, see reply to kevco request of WS to his Jill. (GQII) [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I'm begining to believe that she realy wants this to work, and is willing to begin working on it with me.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, she is. All you have to do is patience and consistent on your behavior so that your plan A become a habit. Getting C from MB is good idea but there are a lot of people "do it yourself MB'er". As long as she is willing to work on M and have a open communications, you could manage it. Also there are a lot of MB veteran here that willing to help.<p>Still about her anger ... what she is angy about ?. About your infidelity(ies) ?, about your ignorant(s) ? just to be sure that you cover all grounds and make you more irresistable [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>[ December 08, 2001: Message edited by: redhat ]</p>

Well kids I'm back. Ok, I realy didn't go anywhere I just havn't posted in a couple days. I've bee reading everyone else's threads.<p>Trying to drag myself out of more anger and depression. I had a lousy weekend. I had to prove that I could LB with the best of them. Also had to prove that I could beat myself up for it like the best of them as well. I'm still working on this. The good news is that we managed to work through it. I think were getting along now almost as well we did last week. I know that's not the best sign, but it's what I got.<p>Story for the day:<p>W is reading HNHN. Is at chapter 5. "Thinks" she's ok with it so far. "Thinks" she wants me to fulfill her ENs. She knows I have SAA, and wants to barrow it.<p>Question:
W thinks I am the WH at this point as I had been for many years. W is in Fog Like Pea Soup (Sory man had to use it. Just proves I've been reading.) of EA right now. I think loanig it to her would "tip my hand" so to speak.<p>Recommendations?<p>One other mentionable: I'm getting the "I refuse to give him up for you, he's just a friend" line. On with plan A.

It depends ... some WS so thick in the fog that they could not think straight. Also in the book doesn't describe "plan A" clearly, more chapters should be dedicated to PlanA/B. Just take a look at it, could someone understand completely plan A just by reading the SAA ?. I don't think so. I have to read other posts to understand it plus Steve helps me. Most WS just laugh at the method. IMO, use it for barter, if she allows you to fill in some of her EN(s) then you lend her the book. It might help her to understand that A has to end for recovery of M and M could be rebuild (new and improved M).<p>Long road but try not to LB.

Revelation!<p>In the shower today (I do some of my best thinking in the shower) I had a clarity of thought that I havn't had since this ordeal began. I realized what her top 4 needs probably are. I think that if I put some thought to it I can sort out the order. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I think I will be playing the "I can fullfill her needs better than OM can" game for a while, but now I may have the advantage.<p>Clarity and direction, I've needed this for so long. I know the clarity probably won't stay long, so I have to get as much direction out of it as I can.<p>Thanks for listening.
Rev<p>P.S.
RedHat,
Would it be possible to email you on a buisness mater. I need a second opinion on a network design issue.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by rev:
<strong>P.S.
RedHat,
Would it be possible to email you on a buisness mater. I need a second opinion on a network design issue.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Feel free ... I will check them later.

Update:<p>It's been a rolercoaster the past couple days, but it has been more like the little ups and downs tward the end. Not like the highs and lows that I was going through. I'm proceding with caution as I understand it can start all over again in a big hury.<p>W says she loves and misses me, but is still afraid of getting hurt again. Doesn't want to let her guard down yet. I'm keeping LB's away and trying to meet her needs. I think there is a bit of progress there. Yes progress is progress... I'm not complaining.<p>I still wish she was living here, but we may be getting closer. I have given up on "no contact" for now. I'm just going to have to plan a this to death.<p>I was reading SAA a few days back. The first couple chapters were hard for me. I couldn't see any hope for us at all, but I kept reading and started feeling better.<p>RedHat,
I wasn't concerned so much about my W learning that I was in plan a. It was more that I'm not sure I want her to know that there is a plan b just yet.<p>Any thoughts?<p>Thanks
Rev

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by rev:
<strong>RedHat,
I wasn't concerned so much about my W learning that I was in plan a. It was more that I'm not sure I want her to know that there is a plan b just yet.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Usually they won't get it anyway. If they do I don't think you are not married to psychopath. Hope they will appreciate you more. If she is curious let her read it.

She just told me that she thinks she is in love with some one else, and 50+ yo OM knows about him. She's still living with 50+ yo OM and wants me to just leave her alone.<p>She says I am a truly evil person for what I have don to her in the past and that she can never forgive me. That she doesn't want to be around me any more. That she is happy where she is and wants to give the new love a chance.<p>Some one tell me what to do. I can't continue to live like this.<p>[ December 15, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

rev,
You mean OM#2 ?. Oh, boy, so sorry to hear that. Does she suddenly told you this, out of the blue, or is it provoked ?. Could you verify this OM#2 ?. I would plan A'ng her for now and see for more come. It is normal for WS to push you, saying mean thing just to hush, hush you away. Do not LB'ed, keep the door open, just told her no expectation but "just be a freind". How OM#1 (OM 50+) reacts to this ?.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by redhat:
<strong>rev,
You mean OM#2 ?. Oh, boy, so sorry to hear that. Does she suddenly told you this, out of the blue, or is it provoked ?. Could you verify this OM#2 ?.</strong><hr></blockquote> <p>Out of blue. Can't verify. I told her I missed her last night. She was (again) thinking she would come over. The she said I couldn't come over because she thinks she is in love with OM#2
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>How OM#1 (OM 50+) reacts to this ?.<hr></blockquote>
He, "Just wants her to be happy"<p>Tell me again why I'm doing this. Why do I contnue in this life or on this path if it hurts so much?<p>How do I get the desire to plan A. Right now plan a seems a lot like "how much bad treatment can some one take without killing themselvs or some one else".<p>[ December 15, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>