Orchid,<p>It's friday night. I'm doing ok. I'm still in a mote of indecision, but I Got a bit of "intresting" news today. <p>I talked to W earlier today. She said she was thinking about moving back in this weekend. I talked to her about 1/2 hour ago, when she calld to say goodnight to teh boys. She said she may call later to ask me to come visit her at the bar. This would make HUGE points with me. I could spend some time talking to her like we did when we first met.<p>When we first met I worked overnights in an out of the way truck stop. She would come in and spend most of the night with me talking. I miss those days.<p>As I talked to her she was still using non-concrete terms like "thinkning about" and "may". This indecision still concerns me, and it's friday night. I know how Saturdays fall apart for me, so I'm trying to be as cautious as possible about things. I don't want to get too excited about what she said today, b/c I don't want to dive tomorrow.<p>I appreciate you checking on me. I'll be here for a bit if your still on. I didn't get here much today, I was reading Divorce Busters a site that was reccomended in another post. <p>Thanks
Rev<p>[ December 21, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

Well Rev,<p>You have those 2 little ones who depend on you. Right now you are mom and dad. Step back a bit and see how much effort she will make to come back. Don't be too quick to jump in and help her out. Sometimes it scares the WS away. <p>Be gentle and kind. Loving and firm. Easy to say, hard to do. Prep yourself for her to reject you or say somethings that may hurt you. Remember her thinking ability may not be where it should be. So don't put all your hopes on every word. <p>I am in the middle of cleaning the house and keep taking short MB breaks. he he he!!!!<p>I will check back. <p>L.

rev,<p>I am in a slow connection ... 24kbps, in a cabin, Bend, OR., just arrived. I will check later. Good that you check DB.com too.

Saturday!<p>I havn't crashed yet!<p>I know, it's 1:00, There is a lot of Saturday left. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> So don't put all your hopes on every word. <hr></blockquote>I have learned that anything but a solid "yes" means no. I keep the "mabeys" and "I think so's" in just that light. Sometimes it's hard not to get excited, but I have to keep that grip on reality. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I am in a slow connection ... 24kbps, in a cabin, Bend, OR., just arrived. I will check later. Good that you check DB.com too. <hr></blockquote>RedHat,
I don't feel sory for you. I use a 21.6Kbps dialup at home (any time after 5:00 Mountain). It's tough comming home to that from my 10.5MB (7 T1's) connection at work (I got the 2 Sprint T's up with BGP) And what's this "cabin, Bend, OR" stuff? [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] I'm feeling left out.<p>I have bee reading the excerpts from the books at DB. Great site, any others I should know about? I think I ran accross this one in one of Echalon's posts. If this isn't correct let me know. I want to give credit apropriately.<p>The W is in IC right now. I'm just hoping that we don't end up in the tank again. That always happens when she goes to IC. RedHat was right, her IC is more protective of her than good for M. I have offered to go to any C with her that she wants. I don't care if it is with her IC, my IC, MB, DB, or some one else. I'd like us to see MB or DB C but my IC would also be ok as she is open minded enought to be learning MB things from me, reading HNHN and reading this site.<p>I'll put more up later.<p>EDIT<p>No one has added so I'll just continue here. 3:18 pm a little edgy but no crash. I had tried to call W after IC. No answer put me on edge. <p>I just got a call from W, she explained that shi had an upset stomach after our lunch togeather and went to OM's house to take meds. layed down for a bit and ended up sleeping through appt. with IC. All things concidered, I'm ok with this. We seem to be getting along good now. I don't want him screwing it up.<p>Thanks
Rev<p>[ December 22, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

Rev, <p>Have you tried looking at Dr James Dobson's Love must be tough book? Good stuff in there especially is no commitment. <p>What does: I felt sick after our lunch and went to OMs to rest for a bit? <p>That is like when my WS told me he had to go to OWs to return her key because she would get mad. <p>Do they think we are stupid enough to know there are other options to their deleama other than associating with the OP? Give me a break. <p>Hope you are able to keep busy. I am still at work and waiting for these updates to be completed so I will periodically check in. <p>L.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>Rev,
What does: I felt sick after our lunch and went to OMs to rest for a bit? <p>That is like when my WS told me he had to go to OWs to return her key because she would get mad.
</strong><hr></blockquote>She has been living there for a couple months. I try to get past this. When I didn't get an answer on her cell at 2:45 (appt was from 1-2) I called OM's house. (Yes I do this. If it is that wierd ask about it.) He answered and said she was sleeping. About 30 min later she called.<p>I know this reads bad. Mabye it explains the ride I've been on. I am probably in denial, but remember from page one of this thread, they had sex twice and felt that it was a big mistake for both of them. Since then I've seen it as an EN. I can take this for a while as it seems that she is becomming more and more intrested in comming back.<p>Be patient, I'll probably be back to vent over this someday. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Thanks
Rev

Hi Rev, <p>I am glad you are able to come here and vent. I apologize if I was a bit callous in my understanding of your situation. I do not mean to throw anything in your face. The pain of it all is all too familar. <p>I understand RH is out skiing with his girls. Seems like this CA guy had to go out of state to find snow. he he he!!! <p>Keep posting, we'll be here. <p>Take care,<p>L.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>Rev,
I am glad you are able to come here and vent. I apologize if I was a bit callous in my understanding of your situation. I do not mean to throw anything in your face. The pain of it all is all too familar. </strong><hr></blockquote>Don't apologise. Remember, I'm probably in denial and need some one to kick me up side the head for it.<p>I realize that my situation is a bit outside the norm for this site. Her living with him and me having contact with him, doesn't quite fit the profile for this site.<p>I also struggle with her having the boys this afternoon and sleeping. That leaves the boys with OM for a few hours. (This also hapens on the mornings I'm at work. She works till 1 or 2 in the morning and one of the boys is in afternoon kindergarten)I figure, once she moves back here many of these problems will go away. (I'll also be able to more eficently plan a her'till the cows come home) That is why it is so important to me that she move back in. She keeps getting closer and closer to moving back, so I continue to try and be patient.<p>I realized when I went into this that I would have to make some sacrifices to get the M to work and that there is an order to all things in life. In this case the sacrafices are obvious and the order is get her back here then work on M as hard as possible. If I folow that order most of the things I have problems with go away quickly and don't interfere with working on the M. Yes I have to work on the M to get her to move back, but this is work that would have to be done once she gets back any way. It looks like a chicken and the egg thing, but it realy isn't. It's goal oriented. Once I hit a goal I can move on to the next, and I can devote 100% of my efforts to each goal. That way I don't spread myself too thin trying to accomplish too many things at once.<p>WOW, I'm a motivational individual tonight. Look out Dale Carnege [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] <p>What do you do? I know your in IT. Why are you at work?<p>Thanks
Rev.<p>[ December 22, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]<p>[ December 22, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

rev,
I don't want to hijack you thread, Orchid keeps you inline anyway. Since you asks ...<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I am now in Bend, OR on my vacation. My 2 D want to go skiing so bad and one of their friend, went here almost every year, invited us to join them. I know I will be miserable & venurable on this holiday season, I told Steve that I could do plan A or B with no problem but I am worry that I will not be able to recover. I will not settle for less knowing that I could have fullfiling M. I invited my WW to come but she refused. So I brought my family here minus WW. She knew this is Christmas and my birthday is next week. I did not even get me a present !, I gave her christmas present before I took off. I know she is not home and w/ OM but I rather have fun than staying home w/o WW and holiday blues w/ my 2 D. My 2 D deserve better.<p>I had a blast !. I took the lifts and hit the slope before my afternoon lesson ... even it is the beginner slope but for a guy who doesn't know how to put his skii boot on, I took it on. I rolled up side down most of the time ... ha ha ha ... I needed this. I did it twice (the lifts)!. My instructor thinks I am a nut case when I told him. By the end of the day, I could going down w/o body slamming the snow [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . I will be here 'till end of next week. Now I have to rest from hitting the ground so many times.<hr></blockquote><p>You ???? with 21.6 bps ???. I don't feel too bad then. Good job on your BGP work. Hey in your post you mention the cows come home... how many are they ? ... LOL.

Hi Rev,<p>Actually you are not out of the norm. Just was askin'. You are trying your best and that is important. In time when you look back and reflect what you have been through, knowing you have done your best will be a consolation and a reminder of your self worth. Whether others appreciate it or not will not impact you as much because you have already settled in your heart that you have done your best (not perfect-your best) and that is important to all recovery efforts. Reaching the 'acceptance stage' of your grieving with this problem is reached faster when you know you have done your best. <p>Me? I am not in IT work. I give them work. I am the dreaded USER kinda worker. Oh yea, the IT and programmers run when they see me. I wish the OW would run away permanently. <p>Anyway, I work in the payroll tax field and working on enhancing our current system while taking care of everyone elses' payroll tax problems that they all of a sudden need fixed by the end of the year. I have my staff her 7 days a week right now. We have been on this schedule for 3 weeks and will do more. Oh don't worry, I do plan to let them have the holidays off. I am not a scrooge! <p>I am back in the office this morning. Gotta go and run more report stuff. <p>Redhat is out there 'falling down in the snow'. Hey RH, watch out for the trees!!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I think the most dangerous slopes are the 'bunny hills'. he he he [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Take Care,
L.

rev,
normally i would be making suggestions as to how some one ineyour post i'm not sure that i'd be doing your wife any favore.<p>if you're a serial cheater and been neglectful why do you want her back? it doesn't sound as if you ever really valued her. so what gives? what makes it rigth for her to come back to you now; not that she's in such a teriffic place you understand, but still, why would she want to come back to you?<p>and rev, please don't try and sell that old tired line about finding that you love her and can't live with out her! i mean other then "just wanting" her back, what have you changed about yourself to deserve the love and respect of a good wife?<p>sorry, but i really feel compelled to ask these question.<p>poodlepapa

rev,
I know you could handle poodlep@p@/[censored]. Go for it brother, that Q is for you.<p>poodlepapa/barry,
Bring your sorry @ss out of this forum. I don't know what you are looking. You lurked here once in a while and post you sorry M p!3c3 of [censored]. You are in the h3ll h0le but don't bring other to YOUR FAILURE. Why don't you put your profile and see where you are at ?.

Wow, good questions.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by poodlepapa/barry:
<strong>rev,
if you're a serial cheater and been neglectful why do you want her back? it doesn't sound as if you ever really valued her. so what gives? what makes it rigth for her to come back to you now; not that she's in such a teriffic place you understand, but still, why would she want to come back to you?<p>what have you changed about yourself to deserve the love and respect of a good wife?<p>sorry, but i really feel compelled to ask these question.<p>poodlepapa</strong><hr></blockquote>I was unfaithfull for the firs six years of our 12 year R. Since then I am guilty of accepting and calling one phone number with intent to cheat 7 months ago. I broke a lot of trust and caused a lot of pain. I also realize during that call the amount of damage I was causing, and choose not to pursue the A any further.<p>I was raised to believe that a good husband provides well for his family. This was the only EN I was good at. By "neglectfull" I mean I spent all my time at work, when I should have been spending this time nurturing my R. Because I didn't understand all the EN stuff I never filled any other EN's for W. This does not say that I didn't love her, only that I didn't know how to show it. It also doesn't mean I didn't do a good job of filling one of her more important ENs, only that I didn't fill all of the top 5. Untill the incident 7 months ago, my wife told me that she thought our R was going well. She was a little lonely, but the R was in good shape.<p>To continue, I realize that it was my decision, and my actions 7 monthes ago that caused this situation. However, I now understand that if she had been filling my top 5 ENs, or at least doing a better job with the SF EN, I would not have created the situation I am in.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>normally i would be making suggestions as to how some one ineyour post i'm not sure that i'd be doing your wife any favore.</strong><hr></blockquote>I realize that counters reset, but I imageine Member Status doesn't. I realy don't know what to say to this, other than, I'm glad I was one of the few to catch your attention.<p>Profile for poodlepapa/barry
Member Status: Junior Member
Member Number: 8408
Registered: December 27, 2000
Posts: 16 <p>Profile for rev
Member Status: Member
Member Number: 14300
Registered: November 17, 2001
Posts: 48 <p>Profile for redhat
Member Status: Member
Member Number: 12949
Registered: September 21, 2001
Posts: 602 <p>Profile for Orchid
Member Status: Member
Member Number: 8823
Registered: January 31, 2001
Posts: 3205<p>Orchid, RedHat,
If I have offended you by this, I apologise. Please let me know. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Hey, in your post you mention the cows come home... how many are they ? ... LOL.<hr></blockquote>Remember, I live in Nebraska. We're talking a lot of cows. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] And when it comes to plan a for life, I mean all the cows and their respective homes. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>On to other things:<p>W, the boys and I went to see Monsters Inc. today. We sat in the back row of the balcony. We sat through the entire film in each others arms like real married people. We talked and had a wonderfull time. As we drove home W said to me, "That was our first date since I left" and that she had a realy good time.<p>Extranious story:<p>W got a DVD player for herself for Christmas. Asked OM to connect it to his tv this afternoon. She hadn't even had a disk in it befor we went to the movie. Whe seh returned to OM's house, OM had tried to watch a DVD. In the process managed to screw up the config of the DVD player. W was furious, and spent about 45 min putzing about with it and couldn't get it to work. After working her anger at OM up, she brought it to my house. Said if anyone could get it working I could. (nice to know there is still some faith in me) I putzed about with it for about 15 minutes. I managed to change the menu to german and back to english before I got the color back and the picture to stop rolling. This apeared to make HUGE points with W. She went back to OM's house with DVD player about an hour ago. I got the "good night call" from the boys and talked to her. OM and her have had a bit of a tiff over this. Just an opinion, OM -2 me +2 in the old LB. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>RedHat,
I had this much done before your post. Take a look at the post time. I waited, hoping I would see a response from you or Orchid before I put this up. Tell me what you think.<p>
EDIT:
RedHat
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I know you could handle poodlep@p@/[censored]. Go for it brother, that Q is for you.
poodlepapa/barry,
Bring your sorry @ss out of this forum. I don't know what you are looking. You lurked here once in a while and post you sorry M p!3c3 of [censored]. You are in the h3ll h0le but don't bring other to YOUR FAILURE. Why don't you put your profile and see where you are at ?. <hr></blockquote>Such Language, I didn't know you had it in you.: [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Thanks
Rev.<p>[ December 24, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

Mornin' Rev,<p>Sorry for the late reply. I got home from work last night and basically collasped. Yea, after making dinner, getting ready for bed, 2 loads of laundry, etc. <p>No offense here. I actually started to reply to you last night (in between all that stuff) and then started to do some research..... then my system was running too slow for me so I went to bed. <p>Like RH, I am in a quandry about one of the posts you received (just not with the colorful metaphors [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ). I will finish my research today. <p>You handled yourself well though. Keep up the good work. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Take Care,
L.

rev,
I have a very short fuse w/ those kind of people, I could rebuke them in His name but they won't understand it either. I want him to response not to hiding in hit and run, not to shame him but to see if there is hope after all for him. I want to see what is his experienced with his relation ... third guessing ?, regret of pushing his W to OM then her wife cheat OM and so on ?, He is a sorry soul that could not put closure in him. A poster man for not what to do w/ your M. There is another one last night too, same kind ... I don't know why I spend time with them, I guess my giver nature. Good work on your reply to him, hope he could see the light too.<p>Hey, I am not offended w/ the cows. I did not know you have sense of humor in you [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . I just worry that you have multiple cows [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>I am glad that you got some bonus [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] , it will make it easier to do plan A. How is OM#2 ?. Is it real ?.

First things first.<p>After my "date" last night and after the impressive answer I gave poodlepapa/barry (if I do say so myself), I have been in an exceptional mood. I don't know exactly why, but I like it.<p>Yes RedHat, Rev has a sense of humor. Sometimes it's a little dry and hard to see. Other times (like today) it's hard to supress.<p>I know I'm going to beat this one to death, so please bear with me. (I know RedHat would be all over this if I said "you can only kick a dead horse for so long". It's the whole Nebraska farm animal thing isn't it? [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ) I am glad I got that question. It made me think about my situation in a way that I havn't before. In formulating that answer I had to take stock in more than just todays situation. I had to look at what my M was like before, and where I wanted it to go. It brought out some things that I hadn't thought about as hard as I should have. The fact that it has been 6 years since my last A is important. It is a sign of growth in my M. It also made me think about how my W brings the subject of my infidelity up every time we argue or fight. 6 years is a long time to hold on to somthing like that. I have read SAA and HNHN, and I think she may be gaining somthing from bringing this up. I need to look a that as well.<p>At first glance poodlepapa/barry's question, seemed mean, uncaring, and a little abusive. Once I took the time to answer, I still see those qualities, but I also see that I needed to go down that road. God not only has a sence of humor, but he has a way of making us look at ourselves in ways we hadn't intended to. I don't reccomend that everyone be hit with these questions, nor would I ever suggest that they be phrased in this way, but I do think that they are good questions for some of us to think about.<p>RedHat,
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by redhat:
<strong>How is OM#2 ?. Is it real ?.</strong><hr></blockquote>She says that she told OM#2 that she wanted to work on M and not to see her any more. Since then I have only asked once, and she said he's gone. Here again, I am probably in denial, but I believe that he was real (no proof) but that he is no longer an issue. I'm sure he will find his way back into the bar where she works eventualy, but I hope to have the situation better in hand by then.<p>I forgot this last night: While we were at the movie W said she wanted to take me to a dinner theater in Ft Collins in Feb. They are doing the Rocky Horror Picture Show. I asked why she was planning that far ahead. Her reply was amazing. She knows that we will be back togeather if I could just give her some space. My initial thought is FOG, but hearing it and being able to read her body language, I tend to believe that she knows this as a fact. I think you are right about her testing me. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> She is afraid that it's a temporary change, and she's not going to reattatch herself to the person/situation she has grown to be so uncomfortable with. She wants to know that this will last. (Ok, that's my W, but I think it's your too) <hr></blockquote>You can find this here:I NEED PATIENCE!?!<p>Your right about finding ourselves in the support we give to others.<p>Orchid,
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I actually started to reply to you last night (in between all that stuff) <hr></blockquote>Sory. I just can't leave a post alone untill all the spelling is right, the words are in the right order, or the whole story is in place. I just continue to tweak it untill someone else puts somthing up. Then I figure no one is going back to see the corrections, I might as well start a new one. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>As alway my thoughts and prayers go with you all.<p>Thanks
Rev

Hi Rev,<p>Wanted to send you a hi-5....you are doing good admidst all this crap.... [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Keep up the good work, you have been encouraging to me and I like your sense of humor. I still have questions about the poodle post... but since you have a better attitude than I at the moment, I will check on it later. <p>Take Care,
L.

Well kids, the time has come again for the ever popular Ugly Mood Swing (UMS). Yes I will probably use this term again, please remember it. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>It's 8:13 Christmas day. I woke up alone. No wife, no kids, just the thought that for the rest of their lives, if W and I get back togeather or not, the kids will remember Santa comming to OM's house this year.<p>I know that we have made a lot of progress. W told me that last night she had a bag packed to stay here. That's closer to her staying here than she has ever been.<p>I am still proud of the way I have handled the last day or two. I am still am able to look at the posts from the top of this page to Orchids post before this one, and smile. I just wish I could get the mood back. <p>Observation:<p>The past few weeks/months I have felt many ways. Afraid, happy, hurt, and angry. Everything from elation to rage and/or any combination there of. Today I don't feel any of those, I feel only great sadness. Yes my friends, God does make us look at and evaluate ourselve in ways we never intended.<p>My hopes an thoughts and prayes for all the happieness you seek go to each and every one of you where ever you may be.<p>Thanks
Rev<p>[ December 25, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

rev,
Well kids, the time has come again for the ever popular Ugly Mood Swing (UMS). Yes I will probably use this term again, please remember it. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
No you can not use it, it is patented [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] LOL! ... it is roller 'coaster.<p>It's 8:13 Christmas day. I woke up alone. No wife, no kids, just the thought that for the rest of their lives, if W and I get back togeather or not, the kids will remember Santa comming to OM's house this year.
Are you playing Santa ?. I am surprise that you could go to OM.<p>I know that we have made a lot of progress. W told me that last night she had a bag packed to stay here. That's closer to her staying here than she has ever been.
PTC will bring her back, dose she initiate the conversation of coming home ?.<p>I am still proud of the way I have handled the last day or two. I am still am able to look at the posts from the top of this page to Orchids post before this one, and smile. I just wish I could get the mood back.
If she initiated the above conversation, you should smile, big one [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>The past few weeks/months I have felt many ways. Afraid, happy, hurt, and angry. Everything from elation to rage and/or any combination there of. Today I don't feel any of those, I feel only great sadness. Yes my friends, God does make us look at and evaluate ourselve in ways we never intended.
Yes, we are human. Just be carefull not to fall into depression. Focus on the future.<p>Thanks for helping Torizo, you will see there are alot of lost soul out there and to little of us. I usually pick and choose my battle.<p>Merry Christmas to you & your family.

RedHat
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by redhat:
<strong>rev,
Are you playing Santa ?. I am surprise that you could go to OM.</strong><hr></blockquote>Sory man, that's the whole point. I'm sitting here at home waiting for her to bring the kids over somtime this afternoon. OM might be playing santa for all I know. I suppose a fat 50+yo grey haired mustached bearded biker fits the part better than I do.<p>You ever say things that realy supprize you when you say them? Mabey I just think about things too much.<p>I'm doing my best not to be too depressed. I have to keep going on Torizo's thread right now. It gives me somthing else to focus on.<p>Thanks
Rev<p>[ December 25, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>