rev,
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Tell me again why I'm doing this. Why do I contnue in this life or on this path if it hurts so much?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Because you love your WW and you want to spend the rest of your life with her. The fullfiling marriage that we know we could have by practicing MB. It hurts, yes, but we have to give our best shot.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>How do I get the desire to plan A. Right now plan a seems a lot like "how much bad treatment can some one take without killing themselvs or some one else".</strong><hr></blockquote>
You did it, you could do it and hang in there. She looks like trying to push you and hush you away. It is common for WS to push BS so that they could get off this 'coaster train on your account Hang in there rev. She notice your changes.<p>BTW: I email you my cell. Call me if you need to talk.<p>[ December 15, 2001: Message edited by: redhat ]</p>

Rev,<p>Your W is waffling. Very common thing. Don't go with her flow right now. Stick to the straight and narrow. That way when she decides to look for you, you will be on the right path. <p>Very hard to do right now. Why? Because you want to be there for her. If you stick to your principals she will see how much farther she is drifting. That is usually when a BS goes to plan B. <p>For some WS' the BS is actually filling an EN or several ENs but they are usually the painful ones. You are there for financial support, she can count on that. Oh yea the fact that she is using the monies in a bad way is not something she is willing to fess up to right now. Most people would be abhorred, but not the WS. Instead they hurt more. Then you are there to pickup the pieces when she is hurt. Again the WS repays the BS with more hurt.....'I love the OM more than U'. Yet you want to still be there. <p>See the pattern? Well now you decide which course you want to walk, the one going up and down and all around (roller coaster) or the straight and narrow. That is the hard part and you will need time to asimulate that in your heart and mind. <p>Even though your mind may know better your heart may not be ready yet. Don't browbeat yourself then. Be patient with yourself also. <p>I will check back later. <p>Take Care,
L.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Because you love your WW and you want to spend the rest of your life with her. The fullfiling marriage that we could have by practicing MB.<hr></blockquote>Yes I do want this. I also know that I can't make her do or feel anything. If she is begining a new relationship/A she will have to put all of her time and effort in to it. Where does that leave me? None of us can compete with the fantasy world created by an A. Read SAA closely, this is what plan b is about, we must sepperate ourselves from the WS to impose reality on the WS and save ourselvs.<p>
Last night when she called to say she wouldn't be over I realized that it wasn't as important as it once was. I took this as my love bank dropping below the "in love" level. We had lunch today that went well. I was back in love with her. Then she dropped this bomb.<p>I am so confused. I don't have it in me to plan b, but I can't seem to find anything good to focus on in the M right now.<p>RedHat,<p>You have patience and wisdom of biblical proportions, and for that I am thankfull. Because I have this respect for you I will continue to not LB and I will most likely in time drag myself out of this back into the rest of plan A. Thank you for all you have done.<p>Orchid<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> BS is actually filling an EN or several ENs but they are usually the painful ones. You are there for financial support, she can count on that.<hr></blockquote>I got an ENQ today, Top 5: <p>1. Honesty and openness (I've become an open book but i think she's been hurt too much to believe it right now. All I can do is continue and hope it gets better.)
2. Financial support (Bottom of the ENQ page says "Doing a great job")
3. Conversation (Can't do this alone)
4. Family commitment (She says she never thought I could be the dad I've become)
5. Afection (I am now giving her at least one card or gift a week, usualy more)<p>I don't know what more I can do at this point. as always suggestions welcome.<p>Thinking back: It's Saturday night and I'm up to my backside in saddness again. Yes, I'm beginning to see a pattern.<p>SNL seems to have an opinion, and I gather I'm not doing well there. What's up?<p>Thanks
Rev<p>[ December 16, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]<p>[ December 16, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

rev,
From your description you are doing it correctly. The first thing that jump on my mind is waffling, like Orchid said. Just let it rest for tonite, get some sleep. She is waffling b/c she is still talking to you after saying mean thing to you and saying don't want to be around you no more. Look at this way, your first post is 11/22, not long ago you just understand plan A. It takes a while and you want to be sure before to go plan B. You are expecting too much too soon. When she bring up again not wanting to talk to you, you have to step back and be carefull. You have to keep the communication line open, no LB, but tell her that you would miss her & keep it "just as a freind, no string attached". Meanwhile could you verify OM#2 ?, do you have any freinds or help to find out ?. You know you can not ask her unless she brings it up and be carefull in snooping.<p>I will check you up in the morning (PST). BTW, did you receive my email to your BGP question ?.<p>About my SOS on GQ II, it was a false alarm. We are very sensitive to certain words, about suicide or harming someone else.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>
Tell me again why I'm doing this. Why do I contnue in this life or on this path if it hurts so much?<p>How do I get the desire to plan A. Right now plan a seems a lot like "how much bad treatment can some one take without killing themselvs or some one else".</strong><hr></blockquote>
I have confident that you are not that type but I post SOS on GQ II anyway just for percausion if I was wrong. We have peachy last month and we just have TerriZ last weekend. Anyway, I hope some WW will reply with their experience on "pushing away" BH to end the 'coaster fast so that both of us could benefit from it.<p>[ December 16, 2001: Message edited by: redhat ]</p>

RedHat,<p>8:00 am MST. I am getting ready to go to church. I just thought I would let you know I am still here, and so is everyone else. Yes it is an incredibly rought time, but I think I'll make it through this weekend. I have to find a way to break this pattern.<p>I appreciate your concern and the concern of others. I will try to temper my reactions a bit next time.<p>I'll check in later.<p>Thanks
Rev<p>P.S. Got the BGP thing, Thanks.<p>[ December 16, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

Rev,<p>I am glad you were able to post today. I must confess, RH was not the only one who was concerned. I sensed deep despair in your previous post and was equally alarmed. <p>You are always welcomed to share your thoughts sometimes this subject takes us to our limits and when it does, coming here helps. You are among those who understand what you are dealing with and going through. <p>A heightened awareness somtimes makes us more cautious than we need to be. The addage, 'better safe than sorry' is usually the road we take. <p>Personally, my story is already out on GQII and I admit to thoughts of deep despair and wondered if it would be better to end it all. However, with the help of God and good people (family, friends, counselor and many here at MB), I have been able to keep those thoughts at bay for now. It has been difficult, so I understand how you may be feeling. <p>Again, if I overreactd, I apologize. <p>Take Care,
L.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>Rev,
You are always welcomed to share your thoughts sometimes this subject takes us to our limits and when it does, coming here helps. You are among those who understand what you are dealing with and going through.<p>A heightened awareness somtimes makes us more cautious than we need to be. The addage, 'better safe than sorry' is usually the road we take. <p>Again, if I overreactd, I apologize. <p>L.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I am thankfull for what I was given here last night. I would not say that anyone overreacted. Nor have I taken any offense. I was in a very dark place last night. I am trying once more to drag myself back out of that pit. <p>On to hopefully more productive things.<p>I am having a hard time with her ENs. I feel like there is nothing I can "do". There is no action to be taken. I would realy like to put my time and effort twards somthing here, I just can't find a way to do that. Could someone help me with this? I don't want to feel like I'm not doing anything.<p>RedHat,
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> It takes a while and you want to be sure before to go plan B. <hr></blockquote>I have to stay on my path. I have set a limmit on plan a (as SAA recommends). I will not begin plan b before that date.<p>When I asked: <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Tell me again why I'm doing this. Why do I contnue in this life or on this path if it hurts so much?<hr></blockquote>You said: <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>You did it, you could do it and hang in there. <hr></blockquote>I know that I will again find the drive to work on me for me. I have found that sometimes if I work on things for others when I can't work on them for myself I can get through untill I get my own desire back, and I don't feel bad about giving up in the middle. I guess it's just my way of continuing to do what I know is right when I don't feel like it.<p>Thanks
Rev<p>[ December 16, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

Rev,<p>I am gonna share something with you that was an eye opener for me. <p>1. You are meeting some of her needs whether you realize it or not. That is why in some cases plan B actually works in helping the BS wake up. They don't want to believe they need or even use the BS but they do. <p>2. Posting here is a 2-way street. Post and vent as you need (you get help/support), post to others and you support them. At the same time, helping can work as a therapy for some. It does for me. <p>There is a saying: 'there is more happiness in giving than there is in receiving'. <p>Being here at mb has helped me tremendously. My H asks me why I post here, I say because this has been my place of support since he did not. He understood. <p>Continue to better yourself. No one here who learns and puts into practice what is taught here at mb loses. Only those who fight it. <p>All the best.
L.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>Rev,
There is a saying: 'there is more happiness in giving than there is in receiving'.</strong><hr></blockquote>I managed my first reply here as you were putting this up.<p>I'm a little afraid to reply to others, b/c I don't feel that I have the experiance to help at this time. I can't even get it right for myself, what makes me think I can get it right for others.<p>I'll keep trying though.<p>Thanks
Rev

Hi, <p>I saw your post on GQII. You are fine. Even though you may not have all the answers, your thoughts and insight may help others. Sometimes we see other situations clearer than our own and in turn our words to them may echo in our ears back at us. Or is a ricohet? Hm......<p>So don't feel like you don't have anything to contribute. You'd be surprised where support is sent and received. <p>L.

rev,<p>Good job on your reply, we need to share our pain and saga w/ others. There might be others that touched by your story, by your support ... you never know [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . We tend to seek other who had walked this path before and learn from it since we are so afraid that we might make mistake on ours. Any post w/ good intentions are always welcome and helpful. It is part of healing.<p>Always look at the bright side ... you are doing a bit of plan A, your WW starts talking to you again, visting you & having lunch w/ you, thinking of spending the night ... she is evaluating you. It is hard to keep plan A'ng w/o receiving what we know we could give & receive to each other, a fullfiling M. But you have to keep in mind there were others walk this path and worked it out and live in happy recovery. As Steve said, as long as there is hope ... from had been receiving it before, from currently receiving it, or promised and faith that will receive it in the future ... we could hang in that thin thread. Mine is before & faith in the future. When I am in the bottom pits, I bring back the happy past and I dream the future of better M than the past, and faith that MB will bring us caring and loving M. I try to forget about the current M that no human should live in it. Hope this help you.<p>Verify OM#2, there might be none. Either way you need to know this answer.<p>If you have not done it yet; probably this is the time for you to kneel down and confess all the sin that you have done and ask for HIS forgiveness and invite HIM in your life. Let your pastor baptised you with water and HIM with Holly Spirit. There is no better teacher of faith & unconditional love than HIM.<p>[ December 16, 2001: Message edited by: redhat ]<p>[ December 16, 2001: Message edited by: redhat ]</p>

One more note to let you know that I am still here, and so is everyone else. We all made it through this one.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by redhat:
<strong>rev,
Verify OM#2, there might be none. Either way you need to know this answer.<p>If you have not done it yet; probably this is the time for you to kneel down and confess all the sin that you have done and ask for HIS forgiveness and invite HIM in your life.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I have had short communication with her today. I have no reason at this point to believe that OM#2 isn't real. I will be looking into this. You are right, I must know this. I need to know how deep this pit could get.<p>As for my relationship with God. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] Besides the people I work with and my kids, you and God are the only people I communicate with regularly, and I talk to HIM a lot more often than I talk to you. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] Don't take it personaly. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I have confest everything, begged for forgiveness, and asked for help in all areas in my life. I also pray for all the people here every night. I also give thanks for finding this site and all the support I get here.<p>Update: NO LBs today. Manged to be upbeat and friendly thanks to all of you. I think tomarow I will be prepared to plan a some more on my own. I want you all to know that with your help I managed to "fake it 'till I make it".<p>Thanks
Rev

First a note: We're all still here. I'm in much better spirits.<p>And so the ride continues.(Progress)
Due to the weekends extream circumstances I am having a hard time with some of this timeline. It is realy disjointed but I hope it will make sense if you read it all.<p>I don't know when this happend, but At some point during this weekend W said she was thinking about asking me to move into another room in the house so that she could move back in.<p>The kids usualy stay with her at OM's house on sunday night. Last night was W's Christmas party. She called afterword to say she wouldn't be picking up the boys. Good thing, I have never seen her as trashed as she was when she called. They were unhappy to say the least.<p>(I know I'll get reamed for mentioning our R)
Met W this morning for the child exchange and talked for a bit. I asked her if she would still be intrested in moving back in if I moved into another room. She said yes. (Elation Strikes)<p>This evening, she called and said she tried twice but couldn't come over. She got about half way here then just couldn't make it. I offered to meet here somwhere to talk and if she was more comfortable with the idea after we spent some time togeather she could come over then. We met at the mall. I told her I realized how difficult this was and that I wasn't going to force her to do anything. We spent some time talking at the mall, then we sat in her car and talked for a bit. She said she was sory she couldn't come over tonight, but that she would try again tomarrow. I told her I understood, I was a bit dissapointed (probable LB but Honest/Open) but more importantly how happy I was she was trying. I told her I appreciated the time we spent togeather tonight, then she headed back to OM's place.<p>***Time shift
Last week I called her as we were leaving the parking lot after lunch to say thanks for having lunch with me. When she picked up the phone seh didn't say hello. She jokingly said "Having withdrawls".
***Shift back<p>As we were driving our seperate ways tonight I called her on her cell and told her I was in withdrawl. She laughed. I told her I loved her and I missed her and that I appreciated her spending time with me. She replied in kind.<p>I am still a bit dissapointed, but I am so elated about the effort that it doesn't matter. I know that it is going to be a long road for her to come back, but I see her trying so hard right now.<p>I think that if she moves back here my head will straighten out a lot. As you know, I have been strugling with the fact that she is living with OM.<p>I believe this leaves one last issue to cover... She says that she is going to tell OM#2 that she wants to work on her M. I asked her to write a letter, but she said she had to do it in person. Due to the events of the weekend I couldn't push any harder on that. If it works great. If not I'll deal with it later.<p>Correct me if I'm wrong. If she moves back, spends time, and I fulfill her EN's she should loose intrest in the others, fall in love with me, and then want to fulfill my needs.<p>New thought:
W Works in a bar. I'm not real big on this as you can imagine. This is where she met OM#2. I don't think this is a negotiable subject with her. I think she likes the job too much. Anybody have any thoughts about this?<p>Sory this is such a mess. If I can clarify anything let me know.<p>RedHat,
Why am I the only one here who hasn't seen your kids. Do you have pictures posted somewhere I don't know about, or do MB people hang out at the rink?<p>Thanks
Rev

Hi rev,<p>Nope, I don't skate or hang out at the rink.....2 left feet problem. LOL!!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] RH will need to send you those pics. <p>Glad to see you still retain your sense of humor despite your woes. <p>Hang in there buddy. You are doing good. The bad days will come and you are making it through. I know you don't feel like much now but one day you will look back and say wow, I can't believe I went through all that. <p>Take Care,
L.

rev,
Hey, you are doing good & handeling it with care. I'll send you my 2 D pictures from last year national. Promise me you will send me your 2 boys's ... [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . <p>I hope she will make it home tommorow. One step at the time.<p>Get your W2000 certifications, take some others too to increase your skills and income. Maybe you could then let her be the queen of the house, staying home and not working. You have 2 small ones that need constant care.<p>Take care ...

Hello everyone.<p>Just a note as I have some time on my hands.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by redhat:
<strong>rev,
I hope she will make it home tommorow. One step at the time.</strong><hr></blockquote>I hope she makes it tonight as well. As long as she's trying, I'm not going to complain. I'll let you know in the morning. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Get your W2000 certifications, take some others too to increase your skills and income. Maybe you could then let her be the queen of the house, staying home and not working. You have 2 small ones that need constant care.</strong><hr></blockquote>I tried that test a couple weeks ago remember. I also have to blow my own horn a bit here. It's not so much my skill set thats lacking, it's the area we live in. I have been a network manager for 6 years, been an MCP since '98, and have been head of network opperations for this company for 3 years. I have 4 years UNIX management (many flavors) as well as 4 years Cisco and Nortel router experiance. The highest paid I.T. guy in town manages the local school district network and makes 60k a year including insurance and other school bennifits. We realy do live in a low cost environment. We lived in Colorado for a while and hated it. We chose to move back here because this is where we want to live. She works because SHE WANTS to. Her working doesn't bother me. It's the environment she's in right now that drives me nuts. She likes working with people. When I met her she was waiting tables and cooking in a truck stop. It's just her thing. She is very sociable and an excelent cook. I would love to see her doing somthing that makes her this happy in a diffrent environment (NOT IN A BAR).<p>Wow, I didn't mean for that to go on like it did.<p>I got the new pics up tonight.<p>I know there's not much here tonight. Kind of a nice break.<p>Thanks
Rev<p>[ December 18, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

No W didn't show last night. Called and said lets do breakfast. Said she'd call about breakfast. 4:13PM I havn't eaten yet.<p>W says she needs time to think. W Wants time away. (still living with OM#1)<p>W saw IC today. IC thinks it's too soon to get back togeather.<p>Asked W if she thought IC was working for or against our M. She says, "I don't know"
Just like every other question I ask. <p>"I don't know", "Mabey", "Possibly", "I'll think about it". I am so sick of not knowing anything. All this from a woman who's dicisiveness and direction in the past were second only to a bull in a china closet.<p>I HATE W's IC. Every time she sees him we end up like this.<p>No good can come of this.<p>I am right back where I was saturday night.<p>Suggestions???<p>Rev<p>[ December 19, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

rev,
Only one suggestion ... hang in there !!!, you just ride this 'coaster not long ago, PTC. Mine is about 2 mo. and going. You are doing it good ... vent in here and avoid LB'ed. IC, huh ?. So predictable on advice, try to protect your W rather than fixing your M. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] . On the other hand to be fair, not knowing you ( I assume you have not talk to this IC ). I would say the same thing. Be patience, rev.<p>I saw your kid's new pictures ... some time it make us wonder, how could someone scars their memory with this ?. But again, hope they will learn from it and will not repeat the same mistake.

Hi Rev, <p>How are you doing tonight? I am still stuck at work...... <p>L.

Hi Rev,<p>It's me being a pest. Just wonderin' how you are doing.....<p>L.