rev,
I put a post before I step in the theater, didn't take, must be a gremlin. :mad :. Anyway, I am just back from watching Lord of The Ring. You should see it. Many people can not take the temptation of the Ring (A). The Journey is to destroy the Ring (A). There is a lot of fogese talk too, waffling in and out. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . And the best part of it you have to wait to see how the journey end (the death of A). [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] . A cliff hanger 'till next year.<p>Well I see you are doing better this days, I have to feed my kid now ....<p>Hang in hard ...

Rev, it sounds like it is "looking up" for you, somewhat anyways. I wanted to just say good luck to you.

T,<p>Got to make this short, but I didn't want to miss you on this. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Torizo:
<strong>Rev, it sounds like it is "looking up" for you, somewhat anyways. I wanted to just say good luck to you.</strong><hr></blockquote>It apears that things are getting better. We still bounce occasionaly, but it keeps getting better.<p>Thanks
Rev

Well kids,<p>WARNING, Vent/Whine.<p>Rev LBs big time.<p>Somebody explain this to me.<p>I met W for dinner. She says she wants to come back. I said great then come back. Why did she just go back to OM's house? Oh, and by the way, She had to pick up some milk.<p>That's another thing that just burns me. I can forgive her for sleeping with OM, but I can't stand the idea that she cooks, cleans, and has to stop and get milk on the way "home" (whatever the erand of the day might be). I know it's petty and stupid, but she not only doesn't do that for me now, se didn't do some of it before she left.<p>She moves out and becomes the perfect wife... to someone else... OVERNIGHT... What is that all about?<p>Now she calls. I'm not kidding, I get home, start this post and she calls right there.<p>She is in tears and says she loves me. She also says her phone is dying. I tell her in that case she needs to say what she needs to say quickley (before the phone dies) or come over and talk. I also tell her that she is welcome whenever she wants and that I miss and love her. She said she will talk to me later. What does later mean in fogese? 5 min, 5 hours or, as in RedHats case, 5 days. (Forgive me RedHat)<p>Yes RedHat, "We scare because we care" (Monsters Inc.) I love her so much, and this is tearing me apart. I have done and will continue to do everything I can to make "our" house safe and comfortable, but at some point she has to make the decision to come back. I can't do that for her.<p>I love her, and I miss her, and I am so alone without her.<p>Thanks for listening.
Rev

rev,<p>When they say it just a freind or they do not mean anything to WS ... watch out. Look at their action !. My WW every time goes out to OM it changes her world, addiction. Your W is the same her weakness take the better part of them and they can not help it. How do you break addiction ? .. cold turkey & break the habit that follow to addiction. i.e stay away, move out of town probably, etc. However WW needs to make the choice to do it.
You have to make sure that WW saw your changes and acknowledge the changes. If they are convinced yet waffle, it is the time to do plan B. You are the only one that could judge the situation. If you are a distance runner like me, hang in there, specially when WW lied and waffled. Play along the ride, WW will have to make the choice.<p>rev, you miss count it , it is not 5 days ... it is 8 days. My love for her is deep but not bottomless. It makes my plan C easier when the plan B fails.

RedHat<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>If you are a distance runner like me, hang in there, specially when WW lied and waffled. Play along the ride, WW will have to make the choice.<hr></blockquote>I think I'll try for all your titles. I'm not throwing in the towl, just venting. We will get through this.<p>Thanks
Rev

Ok boys, here's the venusian back again!! LOL! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>You gotta let them show their value that they need to bring back to their family. Otherwise why bother? I know that sounds rough but take it from an old lady who had 4 false starts and is still wondering about this one (hey, I'm a skeptic).... lol! <p>Their word is their word and right now doesn't carry much value. I mean would you bet your world on her word? How about your life and that of your family? Well that should help you see that even though they may periodically talk about coming home (my H cried while at OW's housse with her in the background saying "L, take him back"). Yet he still kept the communication so much that she claimed to be prego 2 more times. Now really what value were his words and tears? Hmmph..... Are you guys getting this? In this area women can be worse than men. We are used to trying to control our man. Bad technique we pick up as girls trying to wrap our daddies around our little fingers. <p>Remember that you who have daughters!!! <p>Please take care, I know you are both going through very rough times. Love your children and take care of yourselves. Post your thoughts here and if you need I will be as supportive as I can. <p>I wish there was a miracle cure but our endurance proves that miracles still happen. <p>Take Care,
L.

Orchid,<p>I'm feeling terrible right now, and I have to tell you why. Mind you I'm not holding you responsible or blaming you. I also know that this is right for the long term. It just realy sucks right now. Yes, I've been listening to you.<p>W had a prety severe fight with OM last night. She called and said she was comming home. I said ok. The boys were asleep so she stayed at his house. This morning she called and we met at the mall. We wandered aroung and shopped and talked. I asked here if she would be comming back if her and OM had not fought last night. She said probably not. I told her that she needed to think about why she was moving back. I told here that she was welcome to come back to work on our marriage, but I wouldn't bail her out of a bad situation just so she could run back to it after she cooled off, or run off to another situation somewhere else. We will dissagree on things just like her and OM do. She has to be commited to this M just as I do, in order for this to be a long term R. I want her to move back so bad, but it has to be for the right reasons. We talked about this for a while. About my expectations if she moves back and how she would handle them. She is now back at OM's house. She went there to pack. I also told her that if she gets back to OM's house and has a sudden change of heart to call.<p>The only thing that is diffrent right now from the past is that the boys are here. That meanes that we have to meet somewhere if she decides to stay with him. Usualy she says she will probably come over later, but takes the boys with her. I have mentioned this in past posts.<p>I'll catch you up on this later.<p>Let me know what you think.<p>EDIT:<p>Well, I just got off the phone with W. She was at OM's house. I talked to her twice before and she kept saying she was comming over. This time she said she wouldn't be be here tonight nor is she picking up the kids. The boys were less than pleased. She said that she will be moving her things back here tomorow and she promised that she would be staying the night tomorow as well. I'll believe that when I see it. (Sory. I'm trying to stay positive.) She also says that she wants to work on M when she moves back. I guess "Time will tell" is the prefered way to say what I said above. She still won't tell me how she feels in front of OM, but she will tell him she loves him in front of me. (she hasn't done this since her fight with him last night, just to be fair) She says that tomorow he will know that she is staying with me. This is notable, because he called the police and asked them to check on her at "our" house one time. He was "concerned" about her. I realy couldn't believe he did that. Anyway, I wonder if I will get a visit from the local constables at 2:00 am Thursday morning if she stays here. I have to admit, I'm still not feeling realy grand about things right now. I'm still hopping this is the right thing to have done. I feel like she would have been back in the house and I could have better shown her my changes and she could have fallen back in love with me if I had kept my mouth shut.<p>I may add to this later, it doesn't feel finnished or quite right yet.<p>Thoughts, Opinions?<p>BTW, RedHat I don't know how Squirt feels, but thanks for the bump.<p>EDIT:<p>It's 3:12 Wendsday. Just got back from lunch with W. Yesterday I told her I saw thing she didn't. Today W said I was right yesterday, 1.she was comming back for the wrong reasons and 2.she has to decide if she is in love with OM or not. The list of things I never should have said just keeps getting longer. She also went to see C today. He said that as quickly as she is forgiving me she could be back in "out" house by the end of Jan. Combind all this and she ends up with OM for good. If she is staying with OM, OM makes deposits, and I don't. I wish she would work as hard on our M as it seems that seh works on A. She says she's confused, and her solution is to live with OM. That's just great for our M now isn't it. BTW she is also wondering what she might be missing with OM#2 now.<p>Kids, I'm just dying for comments here. Somebody talk to me.<p>Thanks,
Rev<p>[ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

Hi,<p>So the W is on the fence again!?!?! Well it is to be expected ya know. <p>You have set your expectations, right? She understands them right? Then just step back and watch. BS' do a lot of watching otherwise you get car sick (roller coaster stuff). <p>Easy to say and very very hard to do. So please do not think I am minimizing your situation the resolution seems much easier to see when it is someone elses' scenario but I do understand. <p>Rev, you gotta understand that right now, she does not have the right reasons. She is with a man that she said she does not have SF with but she loves? Ok, work with that piece of illogic. You buy that? I don't. He is definitely filling a need and it is visible to all. She is willing to say she loves him to you but won't tell you anything in front of him?<p>Let me ask you REv, honestly, do you want her back as 1/2 a woman? If you do, you will settle for any piece or anything. Not very respectful to you and your family since 1/2 a woman will not make a good mother or W. <p>So have a serious discussion with yourself and see if that is what you are willing to live with or not. If yes, then go ahead and take her as is because the OM is. If you and your family are better than that then stand your ground and don't make the kind of mistakes I did the first 4 times around. I thought I was being tough but I was being manipulated. It was VERY visible to all here expect dum ol me! I kept looking for the rose among the thorns but Morticia Adams' had already cut to buds off.....remember Adams Family Show? LOL!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>When I truly stepped back and found out that I was holding onto a bunch of dead stems, that were a bit slimy YUCK!!! I said nope, nope, nope. I am better than that and started to move forward. <p>The WS saw me pulling away. Didn't need him as much as I had thought. I was making it through the day. It was hard but I was making it and can still make it. Of course he still has his obligations to meet but I can take care of my stuff. <p>Well now, I was looking way more attractive than PBR....who became very belligerent an clingy.... LOL!!!! dumb bunny. Also she was caught for making promises she never kept. I can name them, they are kinda crazy.... but you just have to know this nut case....<p>By the way, do you know how to see an e-mail sent to a yahoo account without actually opening it? I know I can do this in outlook but don't know how to do it in yahoo. <p>Ok, back to you. Think about what I said and let me know. Pro or con is ok. <p>Take Care,
L.
PS: I am not trying to be mean to your W. I actually feel bad she is feeling this way but not surprised. What makes them more loyal to some stranger than proven family is beyond me, but then I was never one who liked the fog.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Orchid:
Hi,
You have set your expectations, right? She understands them right?<hr></blockquote>I think I did, How do you know what a person in the fog understands, and or if the understand it the way you do? <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Then just step back and watch.BS' do a lot of watching otherwise you get car sick (roller coaster stuff).<hr></blockquote>I'm trying, getting a little sick, but I'm trying. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Easy to say and very very hard to do. So please do not think I am minimizing your situation the resolution seems much easier to see when it is someone elses' scenario but I do understand.<hr></blockquote>That's why I look to your advice. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Rev, you gotta understand that right now, she does not have the right reasons.<hr></blockquote>That's why I said the things I said. I told her that if she wanted to work on M that she could come back. If she was running, she needed to think about what she was doing. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>She is with a man that she said she does not have SF with but she loves? Ok, work with that piece of illogic. You buy that? I don't.<hr></blockquote>I am realy torn here. I think SF is about number 18 on her list of top 10 EN's. She could go for months without when she was here. Mabey she doesn't find me attractive or somthig. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>He is definitely filling a need and it is visible to all. She is willing to say she loves him to you but won't tell you anything in front of him?<hr></blockquote>Please help me out here. I know how stupid I look asking this, but I am missing somthing. I know he is filling a need. I'm either too stupid to see what it is or I'm in denial BIG TIME. I think your going to have to spell this one out for me. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>So have a serious discussion with yourself and see if that is what you are willing to live with or not. If yes, then go ahead and take her as is because the OM is.<hr></blockquote>Got me confused here. No, I'm not willing to take her as 1/2 a woman for the rest of my life. OM is taking her now. and if she stays there, she will become a whole woman for him. Don't I want to take the same chance that he's taking? I know I can play this game better than he can, I understand things he doesn't. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>It was VERY visible to all here expect dum ol me!<hr></blockquote>I'm working on this, give me time and I'll have you beat. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>The WS saw me pulling away. Didn't need him as much as I had thought. I was making it through the day.<hr></blockquote>I thought I was there. I guess not. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Ok, back to you. Think about what I said and let me know. Pro or con is ok.<hr></blockquote>I'm still not feeling well about this, but I know that it is better for the long run. I'm trying to take comfort in her confusion. I don't know if you cought my post to ScottP the other day. I told him, "I like to think of me on one end of the confusion scale and OM on the other. She started out sure of OM, then got confused." That meanes she's comming my way on that scale. I keep hoping that the confusion will begin to dissapate as she moves my way more and more. I think she is about as confused right now as I've ever seen her. Odd how I missed this confusion on the way out. Had to be hit with a brick I guess. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I am not trying to be mean to your W. I actually feel bad she is feeling this way but not surprised. What makes them more loyal to some stranger than proven family is beyond me, but then I was never one who liked the fog.<hr></blockquote>I would never have accused you of this. I don't think it is in you. I also wonder how the loyalty thing works in the fog.<p>Thanks
Rev<p>[ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

Well rev,<p>I wish I had a good answer but alas I don't. I'm in your boat in a way and no one is responding to my cries for help here or in real life. I went to the doctor today and got my meds increased and have an appointment with C tomorrow to hopefully learn some tools to cope with everything. At least you have a concrete idea to deal with. My wife still will not be honest with me.<p>There will come a point (when I do not know) that you will have to decide as Orchid said if you want what's left back. I have read enough of your history to realize you have made your own share of mistakes and Squirt stuck with you. You may have to learn patience. It sucks, this I know. The wondering, it is terrible. I wish there were a secret for putting it all out of your head. I have tried getting wrapped up in work or learning and school. The only things that help me is being with my kids. I may try to start going out and meeting some new people. I guess that is part of what this website is for, meeting and sharing with new people.<p>I wish you luck, and will keep you in my prayers. Soul searching, and turning it over to your higher power seem to be the answer.

ScottP,<p>Good to see your still with us.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ScottP:
Well rev,
I wish I had a good answer but alas I don't.<hr></blockquote>Thats the point. If there was an answer either we wouldn't be in this boat, or one of us would be rich beyond the dreams of averest. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>At least you have a concrete idea to deal with. My wife still will not be honest with me.<hr></blockquote>Your situation is just as concrete as any of ours. You learn to watch behavior. Orchid said it a page back, Actions not Words. OK, so she also said it's easier to see anothers situation than it is our own. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>There will come a point (when I do not know) that you will have to decide as Orchid said if you want what's left back. I have read enough of your history to realize you have made your own share of mistakes and Squirt stuck with you. You may have to learn patience. It sucks, this I know. <hr></blockquote>I have never claimed to be so much as a good husband, (actualy I was a poor husband, but you know that.) but Squirt has stuck with me through it all. I will stand by her as she stood by me. Even through the times when she says she doesn't want me, as I so often did by hurting her the way I did. She fought for so many years. It is time for her to get the husband she always wanted. I just hope it's not too late. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>The only things that help me is being with my kids. I may try to start going out and meeting some new people. I guess that is part of what this website is for, meeting and sharing with new people.<hr></blockquote>Spend all the time you can with your kids. They need you now more than ever. Meet new people. Protect yourself. I'm not sure how much of this came throug in my story, so add this to the pot. Squirt took our lawnmower over to the repairmans shop to get it fixed. She began talking to the repairman. The repair shop was in his garage and she saw his Harley, so she asked about it. He offered to take her for a ride that next sunday. I having unconditional faith and trust in her let her go. This riding on Sundays turned into Sat and Sun rides and dinner on Tues. Now she's living with him not me. 2 things to note: 1. The time I had to spend with here due to our conflicting schedule was Sat after she got up untill 4:00 when she went to work, Sun, and monday and tuesday evenings/nights after I got off work. (compare that to the time she spent "riding". Not much diffrence is there?) and 2. She didn't do a very good job of protecting her love bank. Of course she's not doing that very well right now either. Back to you. If you don't protect your love bank you can fall into the same trap Squirt did. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I wish you luck, and will keep you in my prayers. Soul searching, and turning it over to your higher power seem to be the answer.<hr></blockquote>I thank you for all of this, and I talk with him often.<p>Sory I havn't been in your thread as much lately. I have been more reserved about posting. Some of the things I put up were serious LBs to Squirt. After finding that out I have been a bit gunshy. (Gunshy, I wonder if RedHat will jump on that "Nebraskan" talk the way he did the farm animal thing. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] )<p>OTHER NEWS:<p>Squirt asked me to visit her at work tonight. I got to sit on the end of the bar and talk with her some. This was like when we first met. It does however add to my confusiion about where we are headed. Mabey she is working her way twards me on the "confusion scale", or not. Who knows about this fog stuff. I think it was an opportunity to make a deposite or two, and that's all that counts.<p>My prayers and thoughts to all of you.<p>Thanks,
Rev<p>[ January 03, 2002: Message edited by: rev ]<p>[ January 03, 2002: Message edited by: rev ]<p>[ January 03, 2002: Message edited by: rev ]<p>[ January 03, 2002: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

Rev,<p>"--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He is definitely filling a need and it is visible to all. She is willing to say she loves him to you but won't tell you anything in front of him?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<p>Please help me out here. I know how stupid I look asking this, but I am missing somthing. I know he is filling a need. I'm either too stupid to see what it is or I'm in denial BIG TIME. I think your going to have to spell this one out for me.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------
Ok here goes: OM is filling a need. What need or how many may be unknown at this time. Maybe you can or can't fill that need. <p>Ex: If her need is that you act like an old man before you time, you just might not be able to do that nor should you do that. <p>So what do you do? Find a need you can meet.
Is the OM a nice guy, does she like it when he cooks? Hmmmm. learn to BBQ. <p>------------------------------<p>
So have a serious discussion with yourself and see if that is what you are willing to live with or not. If yes, then go ahead and take her as is because the OM is.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<p>Got me confused here. No, I'm not willing to take her as 1/2 a woman for the rest of my life. OM is taking her now. and if she stays there, she will become a whole woman for him. Don't I want to take the same chance that he's taking? I know I can play this game better than he can, I understand things he doesn't. "<p>Maybe I am spewing too much venusian babble but I will try to claify.....OM is only taking her as is 1/2 a woman. Eventually the OM will want the other half and she won't be able to produce. Hm.... at that time, you could unknowingly cause an LB between Om and your W. Another hmmmm....moment. So continue to better yourself because when you do in some sort of sick and crazy fogese sense, you actually start to not only look better but feel, smell, sound better than the om. <p>Moral of this point? Don't settle for less than a whole woman. Neither should she settle for less than a whole man. <p>L.

Rev,
I ditto Orchid, she still hold the title for getting WS too early. Stay put and let her comes back on her own. When the time comes you do plan B. Evaluate your plan A and look at ENs and LB'ed. Waiting is hard specially when Venusian WW starts playing your soft side. Hang in there.

RedHat,<p>I realy don't have much tonight. I just wanted to say thanks, it's good to see you.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by redhat:
<strong>Rev,
Hang in there.</strong><hr></blockquote>I'm hangin' man. Trying to stay positive.<p>Thanks
Rev

rev,
Check on guido's post, I almost had a heart attack when I saw his post as I was planning to leave office to pick up my kid. I have to hold his horses [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] , close call. His W's A is dying soon.<p>About helping others, yes some time we sound like broken record (repeat and repeat the same tune) to us. However your broken record sound like a sweet melody to those who are confused, sicked and hurt. Do not get discourage, specially if you have time on your hand. On the average there are 3 to 5 newbies that post for the first time. Since you are staring at this board and waiting for reply, why not post to others [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] .

Oh thanks RH, I new I was good at something!!! LOL! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Rev, <p>How are you holding on? I have been busy today and so I was not up much. I will go and read guido's thread next. <p>How is Squirt? I will go and look for her post also. <p>Take Care,
L.

RedHat,<p>Here is the update you asked for.<p>SSDD [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I wish I had somthing new to report. Squirt is no longer fence sitting, she jumps from side to side. It's more confusing than ever. I'm learning to roll with the coaster. I still have ups and downs, but I think I made it through the worst. I'm dealing with a lack of openness and honesty right now. I think she is trying not to hurt me by not telling me things. Just a feeling, I may be wrong.<p>She still says she is going to reply to her thread, but I havn't seen it yet.<p>Sory I havn't payed much attention to this thread lately. I have tried to make at least one post a night. I've been replying mostly. I figured if I was getting tired of repeating myself, everyone else was probably tired of hearing it.<p>RedHat, Orchid,
If you havn't read your mail yet, please check it now.<p>Thanks,
Rev

Hi, <p>I am just leaving work. I will check it when I get home. <p>L.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Squirt is no longer fence sitting, she jumps from side to side. It's more confusing than ever. I'm learning to roll with the coaster. I still have ups and downs, but I think I made it through the worst. I'm dealing with a lack of openness and honesty right now. I think she is trying not to hurt me by not telling me things. Just a feeling, I may be wrong.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Whatdaya mean by jumping ?. Mowing from one side to the other and back again ?. Well, you can not stand still either, you have to keep improving your plan A'ng ... go figure & be creative.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>she still says she is going to reply to her thread, but I havn't seen it yet.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Let it drop, probably she will never do it until much later.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Sory I havn't payed much attention to this thread lately. I have tried to make at least one post a night. I've been replying mostly. I figured if I was getting tired of repeating myself, everyone else was probably tired of hearing it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hey, It doesn't mean that you could not post something out from sport page after NB got clobbered by Miami. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] . I start learning from isitpossible, very demanding lady.