Orchid,<p>This is RedHat's last day on the slopes, so I didn't expect to see much of him, and he's probably traveling tomorow. You on the other hand wer noticeably absent today. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] You were up too late werent you. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] BTW, I'm only an hour ahead of you. I am an 8 hour drive west accross a time line from where RedHat takes his girls. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>So have you figured out what you are getting past? It is important to know where you are in this stage of grieving.<p>Let me know what you think about this thread. It helped me during one of my darkest hours.</strong><hr></blockquote>I liked the thread. I think I'm headed into acceptance. At first glance this doesn't seem to be a good thing. I have no desire to accept the fact that she's not here. You could tell me that this will just make plan A easier. Please tell me that it isn't a sign that my love bank is about drained.<p>Feedback on this would be appreciated.<p>I could have used one of those Graemlins with the straight mouth to tag this post with. The question mark just doesn't seem right.<p>Thanks
Rev<p>[ December 27, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

Acceptance is a state of mind. Acceptance can be realization that you are doing the best you can and will wait for the outcome or move on. <p>Don't write off your situation yet. While it may seem dismal you are becoming a better communicator and person. She will see that. Whether she wants to be a part of your better life is actually her decision just like it is yours to become a better person. <p>Life is rough sometimes and you could go backwards a bit but don't beat yourself up. <p>Look back at where you were (d/d) and where you are now. Notice the improvements (big and little ones). Make that a source of encouragement. Your advances are going to be good for you and all who you associate with. <p>Eventually she will see it. So keep up the pace. You are actually doing better than most. <p>Take Care,
L.

Update of sorts,<p>W just left after about a 45 min visit. She was visibly adgitated. She was in good spirits and we talked. She seems to truly miss and love me. She just can't sit still, and still gets upset stomach. She stayed as long as she could stand, then headed back to OM's house. This is a notable improvement over last night. I think she sees IC tomorow. If so she says she will ask about the anxiety and if there is somthing she can take for it or somthing else she/we can do about it. I just hope he doesn't tell her it is a sign that she shouldn't be with me.<p>We are getting along better now than we have in a while. I just hope we can get past this anxiety thing. One of her comments tonight was "I'm just going to have to get drunk and stay here one night". Mabey her C (a real Psychiatrist) can prescribe somthing more socialy acceptable to get her throught this. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Don't write off your situation yet. While it may seem dismal you are becoming a better communicator and person. She will see that. Whether she wants to be a part of your better life is actually her decision just like it is yours to become a better person. <hr></blockquote>All things concidered, I'm not about to write off my situation. I get a little figity about it when I start to think about months of work to get past anxiety attacts, but as well as things seem to be going, I can't give up now.<p>Still looking for advice on the anxiety thing.<p>I'll check back in the morning. Same bat time, Same bat channel.<p>Thanks for all the support.
Rev

OOPs... ok anxiety thingy. Well when the anxiety attacks hit, the reaction may vary but generally there is an uncontrollable flow of emotions. Lots of crying for no reason. Get very weak. May loose it at any time. I lost it in meetings at work, in my office, at the store, at home, while sleeping, in the shower. <p>You need to just let your body relieve this stress. Cry if you must. I got so bad that I passed out a couple of times. The attacks hit me every week sometimes 3 -4 times a week for the first 6 weeks. It made me very very weak and tired. I became sick a lot, my immune system was shot. <p>Anxiety attacks are your body's way of releasing stress. Don't fight it when it happens. Just find a quiet place if possible and let it all out. Then you may need to rest. I was physically exhausted after those attacks. <p>There is more info. I will get back to you later. It is late and I need to get home. <p>See ya.
lhm

New Question:<p>If any of you folowed Torizo's thread, you may have seen me say "I had to go fight with my parents for a while" Christmas day. My parents have are of the opinion that as long as she is in this situation she is not welcome in there house, and uninvited her to Christmas Eve dinner.(I think this was a LB for me) If she wants to file for D and live with OM, she is welcome there house. If she moves back in with me she is welcome there. This is pressure I don't need.<p>They have taken this "opporotunity" to show her "the wrongs of her ways". Please keep in mind that a drive between the furthest points in our town is less than 5 miles (This is a small town). Avoiding them will only work for a short time.<p>I just made a great observation. If you go to yahoo, click maps, and look up terrytown ne you can see all three cities (Gering, Terrytown and Scottsbluff). And from the MapQuest logo to the Gering Drain is about 5 miles.<p>Back on topic: I know as do all of you that my parents behavior isn't helping me. I feel bad, but I have no intrest in visiting with my parrents now. We usualy go out for dinner on Fri. nights. I also know that my parents think that if we get back togeather everything is going to be fine. WRONG, now I have to live the next few years with my W, who I love dearly, on one side and my parrents, well... their my parrents, on the other. Face it kids, My parrents just put me in an uncomfortable position for a very long time. How do I handle this?<p>Thoughts or suggestions on this or the anxiety thing?<p>Thanks,
Rev

Hi, <p>This is where you learn to make lemonade. OK? <p>Turn this apparently sour issue and use it to your best advantage. Think about that concept and I will post more later. I am in a bad mood right now due to more crap from work. <p>L.

Orchid, <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>I am in a bad mood right now due to more crap from work.</strong><hr></blockquote>This "work" thing doesn't do well with you does it? [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Coulld you and RedHad, and anyone else for that matter, please take a look at this:NEED HELP!!!! Is there Hope
I asked if it was ok to put this here and was told it was ok. It goes back to "The rest of the story"<p>Thanks,
Rev<p>[ December 28, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

Hi Rev,
No it doesn't but it is a job. Funny I can plan B people at work real easy. Especially the kind that have big titles and do little work. <p>Ex: met a 'project sponser' title person. Big title? Yep.....this guy didn't know what to do. Not even the stuff from his dept. He tells me not to tell him anything because he can't remember it from my office back to his. Then I get a call from a higher person (director type) and she says this same guy is the contact person for all my questions and he will be the one to give me the info I need to finish the job. WHAT?!?!? It is enough to drive me insane! Is this fogese or what!@?!??!? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Oh forget the fact that this should have been on my desk 4 weeks ago and now I have less than 2 days to complete the main part of this job. Hmmmph.... that's just one of my pleasant experiences this week. <p>Ok, enough about work. Let's get crackin on that lemonade stuff. <p>Your parents vs your W. Here's a thought, maybe in their own way, they are showing your W that they do not condone her actions. She is their DIL and when she acts like their DIL then they can act like her MIL & FIL. I don't think they are against you, but they are against the A. <p>So it is a matter of how it is viewed. Right now rev, your W will view everyone as the enemy. Even you. So don't throw out your other relationships. <p>IMHO, I would tell your parents thanks for the support. I prefaced my request for support from both sides of the family but I asked all to respect my decisions. You know what? I got it from both sides. H barely speaks to any family members but he knows they care for him. He is embaressed. <p>So hows that for lemonade? Is the bitterness a bit more palatable now? [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Hey thanks for letting me vent about work. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] You really wonder about some people.....then they get promoted! Go figure. Fog @ work. YUCK!!!!<p>Take care,
L. <p>ps: Your parents will always love you. Remember that. Don't push them away. Tell them you love them and that their 'support' is appreciated. Maybe they will eventually ask you how can they support you better. (I'm a mom, I probably would act that way if someone upset my son......oooh you don't want to know what I would do if someone did that to my son). K?<p>[ December 28, 2001: Message edited by: Orchid ]</p>

Orchid,<p>Trying to catch you before you bail.<p>Did you make the "squirt - NEED HELP!!!! Is there Hope" connection???<p>EDIT:<p>Sory about the work thing. It always seems that the moron gets promoted.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Your parents vs your W. Here's a thought, maybe in their own way, they are showing your W that they do not condone her actions. She is their DIL and when she acts like their DIL then they can act like her MIL & FIL. I don't think they are against you, but they are against the A.<hr></blockquote>I agree I just hoped they would try to align there efforts closer to mine. I keep thinking "How far would I have gotten if I had treated her that way?" <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>So it is a matter of how it is viewed. Right now rev, your W will view everyone as the enemy. Even you. So don't throw out your other relationships.<hr></blockquote>I'm trying not to, I just felt realy betrayed, and I'm trying to get passed that. (I'm trying to get passed everyone elses trash right now.) <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>IMHO, I would tell your parents thanks for the support.<hr></blockquote>I am trying to get to a place in my head/heart, where I can do that. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I prefaced my request for support from both sides of the family but I asked all to respect my decisions.<hr></blockquote> I'm not sure how this would go over with my parents. I may have to try. I know it would'nt fly with hers. <p>I know that they are doing there best as parents and that they love me. I just seem to have differing views and expectations sometimes.<p>Thanks
Rev<p>[ December 29, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]<p>[ December 29, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

Here goes Redhat:<p>**now I have to live the next few years with my W, who I love dearly, on one side and my parrents, well... their my parrents, on the other. Face it kids, My parrents just put me in an uncomfortable position for a very long time.**


I don;t really understand why you think this is a long term problem. And honestly, your parents are acting within their rights (After all it is there house). Take a step back, they are Plan B'ing...Their entire problem is that she is married to you and living with someone else. They want her to make a choice. Isn't that what plan B is about? They don't need to Plan A. YOU DO!

So don't make a mountain out of that mole hill;You don't have to like what they are doing, but as you wrote it there is not an issue of choosing sides, that I can see and therefore no reason to avoid. Sorry

**See what Orchid said about panic attacks**<p>Orchid is right on this;Remember I have had these attacks and it has been recently..I also have a student with SEVERE attacks that I help at school. They can be overcome, but the key is to not fight it! The more she tries to suppress it the worse they will be. She has to talk herself thru it, acknowledge and know that it will end! What you need to do it be there, but give her space! No pressure and absolutely no guilt for having the attack. Don't pretend to understand ;just be supportive. They can feel like a heart attack;She can pass out! Been there done that and it is hell. Recall when I stopped by that night and talked with you and She before I went to the OT ; I was having a mild anxiety attack and working myself through it. It CAN be done, but She is the one who has to do it. You can not do it for her. (After reading her post, I understand why she is having them and I would be willing to talk with her from my own experience.)

**I can both see and apreciate the effort she is putting fourth. I have to find a way to solve this problem. I know "Time". I fear months/years.** <p>Why does the element of time scare you so much? It took time for you two to get to this point, don't you think it will take time to heal, to reconcile, to change, and to recover?

I continue to pray that the 2 of you can find happiness again and that both of you do right by your sons. T.<p>[ December 29, 2001: Message edited by: smlltownwoman ]</p>

Yes Rev,
I posted to Squirt last night. <p>Thanks for the heads up. I'll catch up to you later.<p>L.

Orchid,<p>I saw your post last night. Thanks. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>Yes Rev,
I posted to Squirt last night.</strong><hr></blockquote>I'm still not sure were both on the same page here though. Squirt is my W, and I am the evil "Joe". I hope this new information doesn't compleatly destroy your opinion of me.<p>Please don't take offinse if I am stating what you already figured out. I just wanted to be sure you made the "whole" connection.<p>RedHat,<p>I read about your accident. (I already hijacked T's thread once so I brought this here.) I'm glad everyone is ok. Where did it happen? Were you home, if not will/did the car make it? I'd offer a lift, but you would be stuck for a couple days while I made the trip. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Thanks
Rev<p>[ December 29, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

rev,
I am gone for a day an a half and miss the Squirt posts [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ... My car is a wreck, I left Bend w/ freinds, thanks of the offer. I am from sunny California, and 4 years at Torizo's neighborhood didn't teach me well how to drive in snow strom. I just send you and smw email. hope it makes sense. Let me go over the Squirt's post. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

RedHat, Orchid.<p>Thank you for catching up with Squirt. I hope things won't change because of it. I have great respect for your opinions and input. I would hate to loose either.<p>I am not proud of my past, but I can't change it either. I have to look to the future. A future that I hope will include Squirt. I also want to note that I have been open and honest both with W and the people here. I didn't feel compelled to throw every mistake I ever made into the ring here, but I have never hidden any of it either. (nobody ever asked what "serial infidel" meant, but it's been there and in my profile since November 24, 2001.) I would also like to to draw attention to the post on page 7 right after Poodles. It hasn't been a perfect 6 years, but it does say somthing.<p>I am willing to turn over all passwords for E-mail, V-mail, bank account, and anything else. (Actualy, W managed 100% of our finances untill she moved out. She has had to help me pay bills since she left, as I had no idea what was due, when, and how much) After I told W about everything, I have nothing left to hide. Not much to be proud of, but nothing to hide. <p>Over the last few months I have learned many things. Including what it means to be alone, scared, and hurt. I can't say that I understand all the pain I put her through. Nor can I take it away. God knows I would live it for her if I could. I have also learned what I want my M to be, and how to make it that way. remember my discertation to Torizo on "enlightenment".<p>OBSERVATION/UMS:<p>I once again find myself in an uncomfortable position. I wanted W to know that there were others who have been through what she is living, and that there was hope for our future togeather. Now I sit here praying that I don't get stoned or abandond by the people who have been so supportive of me. I guess thats the chance I had to take to try and help her cope with what I have done.<p>Sory if I rambled.
Thanks for listening<p>EDIT:<p>Back on the family thing. My parents had a post Christmas get togeather today. I was for my dad's family and their familys. I opted not to go. I know I missed an opprotunity to see some family that I don't see very often, and in my family you just don't miss somthing like this, but I couldn't bring myself to go. W was sick, and slept at OM's house most of the day, so I realy had no reason not to go other than I know that W wouldn't have been welcome if she had wanted to. She is still my W, and I will stand in her corner.<p>Chastize me as you will for this. I probably deserve it. I just needed to share it.<p>Thanks
Rev<p>[ December 29, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

Rev, <p>I don't have my whip (can't remember where I left it - LOL!! ) Oh yea.....nope...not there... [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I see no reason to change how I feel. You are both here for your own reasons and that is how it should stay. I will go back and read my response to her but I think I said to read up on the MB stuff. <p>There have been couples that posted here before. Don't worry about it. Just learn and grow. We all have things in our past that we are not proud of. Right now the only thing we can do is be responsible, logical, clear minded and fix the future. We can apologize for the past and not do those things in the future but we can not redo history. <p>So do I have to call you scary jo? LOL! I like rev better. Besides, rememeber me? I am that dreaded USER that the IT dept hates..... so if I like you that's quite an accomplishment. he he he! <p>I will keep an eye on squirt also. I promise not to carry things from one post to another unless required. <p>So don't have to worry about me. Redhat's a good guy and I am sure you don't have to worry about him either. <p>Take Care K? I sure hope this turns out for the better. I will keep you and yours in my prayers. <p>L.

smlltownwoman,
Thanks for sharing you point of view, I just email you too.<p>Orchid,
I am back ... I will bring my kid to see Lord of the Ring at IMAX - Metreon & check back in later tonite - I am a night owl. Again WW is missing in action w/ my rental car. Well it is her loss.<p>rev,
I kind of sense you hold a very big debt to your M & squirt. You see I did whip you several time in the beginning. About serial infidel, we all capable of having A and capable of making mistakes. What counts in MB is moving toward the future. You better treat squirt like a queen from now on otherwise next year I will go to your town, SBC [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . Open dialog again w/ squirt and make any arrangement with her to safely come home including avoiding "somthing" if you have to for a period of time. Negotiate on the terms, both of you, her on OM and you on protecting your weakness. If that is not possible, cranks your credit card, call MB for help. I think at this point you know already the value of your M. Get third party involve in POJA, actually in your case is not POJA it is one sided POA. You accept her condition w/ no but no if and her on your about OM.<p>Good luck, I am waiting to see the squirt come home.<p>Note: sold out on LoTR. I am back earlier<p>[ December 29, 2001: Message edited by: redhat ]</p>

WOW,<p>Way too many things to quote. You are all very understanding. <p>Orchid,
I'm not concerned about anyone cross posting between Squirt and I. I am making a consious effort to work twards a positive future. I have and will continue to apologise for the past and will remember the lessons I have learned from it.<p>My UNIX machines give me a "fortune" every time I login. The other day one of them said "Real users know you home phone number". You don't even work for my company and you have my e-mail address. I have users that don't get that. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Thank you for "keeping an eye on Squirt".<p>RedHat,
I owe Squirt the world for what I have put her through. She will be treated like a queen. You won't have to make a trip here in that context, but I have an extra bed and you are welcome. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Every night she comes over after work I offer to stay in another room if it will make comming home easier for her. I will accept her terms unquestioned, and at this point I will not push the no contact issue. I just want her to come home. Remember, if I do a great job of fulfilling ENs there will eventualy be no more need for him. Yes, I would like "no contact", but I can work twards that.<p>I didn't want to make this a quote fest. There were so many things I wanted to address. I hope you find my responses close enough to what you said to make the connections.<p>Thank you for your understanding and your patience. Deep down I believed that you would understand and support me/us, but when I started to think about what you have been through and where my past could have taken you, (trigers) I began to see that it would be very easy for you to change your opinions.<p>I can't put into words how thankfull I am that you have handled this the way you have. I feel like I am back on track again and that Squirt and I will get through this togeather.<p>Going back a few posts:
W got Paxil from C yesterday. She took her first one this morning, and got sick. (fever, hives...) I think she is alergic to it. She may end up on somthing else, but the C sees the need to manage the panic attacs.<p>W says that she wants to make an attempt to stay the night tonight. From her tone and choice of words, I think she may wake up here tomarow. I know, I've been here before. I'll live if it doesn't happen. On the other hand, I had my saturday crash earlier when I was thinking I lost my MB supporters/friends. <p>OK, about now your thinking "Rev, SHUT UP" [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] Sory this was so long. I have great people to thank and lots of stuff I wanted to cover.<p>Thanks
Rev<p>[ December 29, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

rev,
Just finished playing clue w/ 2 D [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . <p>Remember, if I do a great job of fulfilling ENs there will eventualy be no more need for him. Yes, I would like "no contact", but I can work twards that.
Steve Hardy will be proud of you, speaking like true MB'er. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>About your past, it stays in the past until you repeat it again. The only one that matter is the future. We support your action now but not your actioned in the past. Hope with time & your love&caring squirt's wound will healed. I don't think she will survive another one.<p>Let us know in the morning if she is home tonite.

Rev, <p>I am only to happy to help out where and when I can. Let me know what you think of that movie. I read the books (several decades ago....) and loved it but did not like any of the movie versions. <p>Keep working on yourself. You need to show by actions (not just words) that you have changed. This will take time. There is no miracle pill for healing from a malady like this. <p>Patience, time and effort (PTE). Both of you pray for a clear mind and a calm heart. Think about worse case scenarios and prepare how you would react. That way you have some prepartion when things do arise. <p>You will never be fully prepared for all of life's ups and downs but it is good to have a head start! <p>Take care,
L.

RedHat,<p>Clue is a great game.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>About your past, it stays in the past until you repeat it again. The only one that matter is the future.<hr></blockquote>This is where W is with the C. Tryig to stop living in the past. IMVHO, she is making great progress in this. C also says the pannic is from her subconsious telling her not to be too trusting with me again. I doesn't do well for me to say this, but I can't say that I blame her subconsious. I do hope it can get over it though. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Let us know in the morning if she is home tonite.<hr></blockquote>Not last night, again. We're still working on this.<p>Orchid,<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Keep working on yourself. You need to show by actions (not just words) that you have changed. This will take time. <hr></blockquote>Agreed. I keep this in mind in everything I do. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>You will never be fully prepared for all of life's ups and downs but it is good to have a head start!<hr></blockquote>What do you say to somthing so profound.<p>Other than her not staying last night, I realy don't have much to udate about. I again wish to thank everyone for the support and intrest. You all have provided a comfortable port to weather this storm.<p>EDIT/UMS:
Met W for breakfast after church this morning, then went to Kmart. At breakfast she asked me if I wanted to go on a "date" this afternoon. At about noon we left Kmart, She said she needed to run to OM's house to get some things and would see me at "our" house in about an hour. She showed up here at 5:00. Said she spent most of the afternoon reading MB and talking to some girlfriend I don't know. She picked up the boys swim suits and some towls then left about 20 after. While she was here I asked if she wanted to stay the night. She answerd with a flat "no". She's back to the "mabey" and "I don't know" stuff. I don't know what I did wrong. I must have LB'd big time, but I can't figure out how. I don't know where to go from here.<p>EDIT #2:
5:55 W just called to tell me she loves me. I tolde her about the above edit and she said I didn't do anything wrong. She said it was PMS (I swear she told me to put that here) and that she was just in a fighting mood. She was happier on the phone, but was headed to OM's house. She said she may come over later tonight. I realy hope she does. I keep thinking about Orchids post, actions, not words.<p>My thoughts, hopes, and prayers to all of you.<p>Thanks
Rev<p>[ December 30, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>