Well kids,<p>Here we go, the story you've been waiting for. I included date and location stamps so you understand why it doesn't flow the way you would expect.<p>Saturday afternoon, I got a call from my boss asking if I could go to Connecticut for a couple days. I told him I needed to think about it. I needed to talk to W about it. I asked W what she thought. She said she thought it was a good idea, but I shouldn't be away past Thursday. I called my boss back Sunday and told him I could make the trip, but I had to be back by Thursday night. W, boss and I agreed to the time.<p>3:02 PM Monday Jan 14. DIA Denver<p>Saturday W said she was interested in working this out, and that she would probably move back to our house while I was gone, and that she wanted to spend Sunday with me. Noon Sunday W called and said let's get together for lunch. I met her for lunch, and then we went to Target to get a carry-on bag for my trip. She had seen that they were on sale. Note, She wanted to make this purchase for me. After we got done shopping, we went back to my house, She said she wanted to talk about her moving back in. She took me into the bedroom so that the boys wouldn't disturb us. She sat down on the bed and told me that she had been trying to bring herself back to our M, but she just couldn't. That she had been struggling to tell me this for weeks. She said she felt better being able to be completely honest with me, and that she didn't see any chance for us to work this out, I had hurt her too much in the past, and she had forgiven me for everything but the dishonesty. She says her LB for me has been closed. She also says the she sees the changes I have been making but that they don't make any difference. She's glad I'm making them, as I am now a wonderful person. <p>I hate to make judgments, but this looks like the deepest thickest fog I have seen. Is there a way out of this, or is she ready to move on without me?<p>8:34 PM O'Hare<p>She also told me that this trip might do us good. I think that means she can spend time doing her thing, whatever that may be, without worrying about me. She also said that she was going to spend the time I am away at my house, thinking about our M.<p>11:21 AM Tuesday Jan 15. Bradley, Heartford CT.<p>I haven't seen MB Since Monday morning. This trip has been a nightmare. I haven't seen a cable head end, let alone worked yet. I talked to W this morning. One of the boys is sick. She said she loved me, and was concerned about me. She said she went to my house for a bit last night but didn't stay. She also says that she thinks this trip is good for us. I guess I was a little (terribly) clingy. This also made me think that she would like me to Plan B. She misses me, but is not uncomfortable about it. I don't know what this means. I want to think she is back on the fence, but that is pretty unlikely. I guess I need to try and find new ways to improve Plan A.
5:53 AM Thursday Jan 17. Bradley, Heartford CT.<p>Well, I didn&#8217;t get to put any of this up during my trip as I didn&#8217;t work much. (What a mess) I did talk to W last night. She wants to talk about some things when I get back. I don&#8217;t know what she wants to talk about, but I think it pertains to our M. If my luck runs true, she has probably filed for D. That is about the only thing that could make this week worse. Of course I am hopping that she has some questions she wants answered before she moves back in, but that is doubtful.<p>OTHER MENTIONABLES:
OM#2 has apparently bough a ranch somewhere away from here, and offered to make W the life of her dreams there. W is still here and said that she turned that offer down.<p>The score as I see it<p>Me -1
OM 0
OM#2 0
W 3<p>She doesn't want me, OM#2 wasn't good enough, and she says OM is nothing more than a place to live. She can have any one of us but is happier without any of us. (Yes I know this looks like I&#8217;m buying into all that crap again. I&#8217;m trying to put that out of my head so I can Plan A)<p>There is a lot here. I invite questions or comments on all of it, and I won't be offended if I get beat up over some of it. Especially the clingy part, I should have been watching for that. I'm must try to find a way to be caring and understanding so that she knows I want this to work and yet be strong and self-reliant without pushing her away.<p>I'm afraid that if I'm not available (on demand) to meet her EN's and continually reminder her that I love her and want to work this out that she will find some one else to do that kind of thing for her. (Isn&#8217;t that Plan B?) I guess it is silly of me to worry about this, as it appears that she already has. Come to think about it, none of us would be here if that hadn&#8217;t happened to us all in one way or another.<p>As always, thoughts and suggestions wanted.
My thoughts and prayers go with you all.<p>
The Trip:
Due to the Excite/@Home debacle, I was sent to Heartford CT to assist with the cut over of cable modem customers from the Excite/@Home network to the Cox Cable network. This has been the worst trip.

Hi Rev,<p>Glad you made it back safely. Wow long distance roller coaster ride. Yep that A stuff is mobile. The pain will travel at the speed of light. <p>I am sorry she is taking this turn. Funny though that if she had been like this for weeks that she made an effort to tell you she might move back home while you were gone. Just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Sounds more like waffle fog. <p>So if you were like OM1 and owned a ranch would you then be Mr. Wonderful? I think not. See there is still way too much fog out there. I am sure if she reads this I am dead meat as far as speaking with her but this is how I 'seez it'. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>So for now you are back home and pretty much in the same spot. Why? I am not sure. But I do know that things will be changing because a stagnant A is bad for all. <p>Hancker down for more rough weather. <p>Take Care,
L.

rev,
Drop asking her to come home, drop asking her for relation or marriage. Just look settling. Still say I love you and show affections to her but stop short on asking A or W to come home. She needs to comes up with her own reason, let it be. Still working on your issues, it is for you even she does or doesn't believe it. It will make you a better person anyway. Make sure you draw the line on the term of coming home, not just taking her as is. You want a better marriage and it is up to her to step up to it. Remember you were WS before and both of you have to protect this M and search for fullfilling M. You could relapse down the road if she is not working as hard too in recovery. Hunker down and stay in there, let her make the choice.

RedHat, Orchid, everyone,<p>RedHat, I cought your post to Guido. You don't know the reality that brought home. I talked to the bank about buying my house yesterday. This removed a great deal of fear from my life. Once I had made the decision to buy the house, I was able to relax and think about some other things, knowing I would have a place to live.<p>I realized during and just after my trip, that I have an intresting emotional pattern. I'm sitting here typing this realy not caring what happens between W and I. Sure I would like our M to survive, but one way or another everything will work out. When I get around her I am on the other side of the fence. I feel like I can't live without her. I become clingy and pushy about our R and M.<p>Guido's comment: <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>If I wanted celibacy I'd have gone into the seminary. I want someone to appreciate me, give me attention and take care of my needs. I hope that person is her. If it's not, I'll find someone that will (though not an A).<hr></blockquote>Struck a nerve. I know I havn't been at this as long as everyone else, but I have the same feelings. Especialy when I'm not around her.<p>I will continue Plan A. It is getting easier to be apart, though I'm not sure how positive that is. I think I am developing some resentment when she is not around. Sometimes I'm just ok with her not being here, and others I don't have any desire to get her back. Then she calls or stops by, and I fall apart again. I need to work on the time we are togeather. Try to be less concerned about the M. I don't want to push her away, but do I need to start living my life without here. This goes back to the "on demand availability" thing. Do I need to be less accessable. If I have plans and she calls, do I need to drop everything to accomodate her. That's what I have been doing. Is it a LB to say sory, I have other plans, assuming I do, and not be at her every beck and call? Is this pushing her away? Is this failing to meet her needs? If so is this against the Plan A program?<p>Somebody help me find that line between living my life and working Plan A. Between showing that I'm not a kicked puppy in the corner that can't live without her, and draging her kicking and screaming to D court. I know that nobody wants someone who can't take care of them selves, but how do you show that quality without being too independant.<p>I can't quite find the right words to explain what I was trying to say there, but I hope you can drag my meaning out.<p>Thoughts, suggestions, answers? Somebody please give me some answers.<p>Thanks
Rev.

Rev,<p>You are getting there and you don't even realize it. Strive for reaching for acceptance. Not what kind of acceptance just acceptance. It is important for you so that you can move ahead and make plans for your future. <p>You are learning to remove obstacles. The WS has learned to make obstacles. Until the WS learns to remove them, the WS will be a thorn in the side of the BS and family. How long the BS allows that is plan A. Once the decision is made to remove the thorn...that is plan B. Then if the WS decides to no longer be a thorn and the family is willing to take the WS back, then the journey to recovery can begin. Otherwise, plan B is in action and the D becomes inevitable. <p>Knowing this is good. Wherever it lands the BS learns to be prepared and continues to remove the obstacles in their lives and move on. Then the BS will feel relief and progresss. <p>That is when the BS can make the statement back to the WS.....'just like you (ws) did not want me (bs) to tell you what to do (which I (bs) really was not doing), now I (bs) will tell the Ws that the WS can no longer dictate anything about the family since we are no longer a family'. <p>See all that goes around comes around. If the WS really believed all their threats and whinning...... then it would be accepted by them when they are rebuffed using their logic. In most cases, they (ws) do not want to be treated like the way they know they (ws) are treating the BS and family. <p>Does any of this make sense? Let me know. <p>Take Care,
L.

Orchid,<p>Looks like I have found some of your "honesty". Please don't take offense.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Orchid:
Strive for reaching for acceptance. Not what kind of acceptance just acceptance. It is important for you so that you can move ahead and make plans for your future.<hr></blockquote>Let me get this straight, I'm not suposed to care how this turns out? It doesn't matter if it ends in D or in recovery I just need to know that it will work out and we will all live through it. Don't take this personaly, I DON'T LIKE THAT. Yes, I'm a better person now, and I could probably go on to make someone a great husband. I will keep the new me because I like it, but I'm not working this hard, and feeling this abused to just let it all go. I have some expectations here. Nobody does this without expecting some sort of payoff in the long run. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Wherever it lands the BS learns to be prepared and continues to remove the obstacles in their lives and move on. Then the BS will feel relief and progresss.<hr></blockquote>The house thing realy did give me a feeling of relief and progress. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>That is when the BS can make the statement back to the WS.....'just like you (ws) did not want me (bs) to tell you what to do (which I (bs) really was not doing), now I (bs) will tell the Ws that the WS can no longer dictate anything about the family since we are no longer a family'.<hr></blockquote>I have bee trying to say this without LB for 2 months, and can't find a way. We are not a family. If you don't want to live up to my expectations, Don't expect me to live up to yours. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>See all that goes around comes around. If the WS really believed all their threats and whinning...... then it would be accepted by them when they are rebuffed using their logic. In most cases, they (ws) do not want to be treated like the way they know they (ws) are treating the BS and family.<hr></blockquote>If we treat them the same as they treat us aren't we producing LBs left and right?<p>Thanks
Rev

Rev,<p>Yes if we act like them we'd be lbing left and right. <p>Now in response to your other statements..... plan B with either help her come home or lead to D. <p>She needs to cooperate with her family for her to come home, if there is no cooperation eventually there will be a d or you will continue to enable the A. <p>I am not saying you don't want to save your family. I am simply saying that you both must work together to make the marriage work. You can't don 100% and she do 0. Anything less than 50/50 will be a hardship. I am having to do the same here myself. So I am not holding you to a higher standard. <p>These are hard realities to face but eventually when we are over the shock and have done all we think we can, then acceptance is the only thing left. No one can push you quicker to that piece. We can talk about what is ahead for you but your emotional timeclock will tell you when. It may be a while and there may be some more ups and down but then you will reach a settling point. I can learn stuff without getting as upset as I did in the past, that is an improvement for me. I can move forward and I am. Not perfectly yet, not where I want to be but getting there. <p>Keep posting here..... you are doing good. <p>Take Care,
L.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by rev:
<strong>RedHat, I cought your post to Guido. You don't know the reality that brought home. I talked to the bank about buying my house yesterday. This removed a great deal of fear from my life. Once I had made the decision to buy the house, I was able to relax and think about some other things, knowing I would have a place to live.</strong><hr></blockquote>
IMVHO, Guido has a different issues. He did not set the deadline, WS did. WS already acknowledged the changed and seeing it. There are no reason for her to stay there and Guido is running low on his LB$. He is ready to take control from WS and basically turned the table. You do that when you are ready to Dv your W if they are not turning around within unspecified time frame. I do not see you at that point yet. Your W is not yet sure that your changes are here to stay. You are still have some breath left to ride the 'coaster of A a bit longer.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I realized during and just after my trip, that I have an intresting emotional pattern. I'm sitting here typing this realy not caring what happens between W and I. Sure I would like our M to survive, but one way or another everything will work out. When I get around her I am on the other side of the fence. I feel like I can't live without her. I become clingy and pushy about our R and M.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You have to stop that. When you are in acceptance mode and settling down, it is easier to do plan A. Only be patience. When you are around her, just bring up the day to day bussiness and do not bring R & M. Heart 2 heart only when she brought it up and pull back of asking her to move in. If she ask let her know that there is a term to come back and it is by the MB principal ... no contact & working on ENs - 4 rules of recovery. Otherwise either you stay in plan A or moving to plan B.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong> ...This goes back to the "on demand availability" thing. Do I need to be less accessable. If I have plans and she calls, do I need to drop everything to accomodate her. That's what I have been doing. Is it a LB to say sory, I have other plans, assuming I do, and not be at her every beck and call? Is this pushing her away? Is this failing to meet her needs? If so is this against the Plan A program?</strong><hr></blockquote>
In plan A, filling ENs is optional and is not requirement. However you try to. You do not make your self less available but you don't go way, out of way, to accomdate her. For instance, if you do this to get her back you are in the wrong shoes. You do this because this is what she will be getting if she is back !. No, it is not LB ... you need to state the fact and let her know ... no demand (she is the one is demanding), no judgement (you could not do it). Yes you are pushing her away.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Somebody help me find that line between living my life and working Plan A. Between showing that I'm not a kicked puppy in the corner that can't live without her, and draging her kicking and screaming to D court. I know that nobody wants someone who can't take care of them selves, but how do you show that quality without being too independant.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You should live your live ... a M live that is and also you are working on plan A, fixing yourself. You have to show independent. I show it to my WW !!!!. I completely take over the care for 2 D, Steve Harley warned me include her too. Soo, I make reservation dinner for 4 and if she wants to join us it is the better ... but we have fun anyway w/ or w/o her. I booked vacation to Bend and inviting her. I drop and pick up the kids except on Tuesday & Friday. she wants more time, I let her. What I am trying to say is you have to be independent but you do not shut the door. You let them in rather than you beg them. You take your self out of the A ... no LB, no excuse and worst of all no gurantee that you will be there forever. Let them stare at their A point blank. Rather than clingy which is an LB also you give your WW a comfort that you will be there forever, you show love and affection but not clingy. I told WW that I love her unconditionally, she is free to do as she pleased (she is an adult), I wait for her to willing to work on M, but I might not be here forever. She is afraid that I will have "a date", she bought me a nice Bible (do I need reminder about my faith ?) and she is cutting down the baby sitting night on Tuesday & Friday (which was my single nights). I went out to see movies and going to gymn and run some of my errand and took a break on those night. I will start again going to late movies and late gymn night pretty soon (arranging baby sitter) ... w/ or w/o WW. If she is home I 'll ask her but if not I am going by myself. I make a plan to go to 3 days church retreat and ask her if she could be home but if she refuse I will get help somewhere else. Hope it make sense.

RedHat,<p>I saw her for lunch today and managed to be unintrested in our M. She didn't bring it up, I didn't care.<p>I am still afraid to not be there for her. <p>!!! Example !!!
Some nights she calls and says she will stop by after work. I wait for her to get here between 12:00 and 2:00. After she leaves I sleep till 6:00 when I need to get up for work. This sleep pattern is not hepling me. I am afraid to say "just go strait to OM, I need to sleep". This to me is the same as saying "you are not as important to me as sleep". To me that sounds like a LB and if it doesn't push her to OM, it allowes for less time with me and more with OM. Isn't that bad?<p>Thanks
Rev

rev,<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>
I saw her for lunch today and managed to be unintrested in our M. She didn't bring it up, I didn't care.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Good. That is the way is suppose to be. Let her get interested.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I am still afraid to not be there for her. </strong><hr></blockquote>
We scare because we care [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . She know you are there for her and if she need you she will aks you.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>!!! Example !!!
Some nights she calls and says she will stop by after work. I wait for her to get here between 12:00 and 2:00. After she leaves I sleep till 6:00 when I need to get up for work. This sleep pattern is not hepling me. I am afraid to say "just go strait to OM, I need to sleep". This to me is the same as saying "you are not as important to me as sleep". To me that sounds like a LB and if it doesn't push her to OM, it allowes for less time with me and more with OM. Isn't that bad?</strong><hr></blockquote>
[img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] I am honestly thinking that she is testing you rev !!!. Testing how far rev has changed. Yes, for now she is the VIP and you have to take it ... later she is still the VIP but you are her VIP too and you two could POJA. For now, she own you. Be patience, is there any little thing like this happens ?. If she is testing you the cow will be home soon [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>I have to bring D to cheer leading, catch you later.

Rev,<p>Read what Carol/kh posted to Cali on GQII. A very good plan A and B. Hard but strong. Now these tend to work better on the male than the female (I think because women are way more stubborn). But she stuck to her course and her H is on his way home. <p>Her experience might give you some encouragement. RedHat has given you more good advice. If she is testing you, you turn it around and make it an accomplishment towards your family's goals not hers. Don't let her control you or push your buttons. Take that step and don't be afraid of moving forward. Of course Rev, eventually you will get to the point. Just don't let her push your buttons....k? [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>L.

rev....

I posted the following to squirt want to share it with you and then will follow with a post to you..

Squirt,
{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}

I have to tell you, that while I feel that there are no good excuses for an affair, I can certainly understand why you are at this point in your life. You feel like your H has torn up his ‘husband card’.

I have some experience in what you are going through. My XH was a serial cheater thought the entire time we were together and married, 20 years. Though I have no idea of all his affairs. I am aware of only 5 or so of them.

If you look at my profile below, you will see that my new husband did the same thing… 10 affairs in the 2.5 years of our engagement and early marriage. We have been married for only 1.5 years. Today we are in a very good recovery. A couple can get beyond this.

But first you and your H need to decide if you even want to work on your marriage. This is not an easy call in your case.

As for his multiple infidelities… since they started even before you were married, I’d venture to say that the problem is definitely more in him then in your marriage. Remember that you share 50/50 in the current state of your relationship. Though in your case, with his multiple infidelities that may be skewed quite a bit.. like 10/90 or something like that. Your H is totally responsible for his decision to have the affairs just as you are for the affair you had.

I would venture to say that our H’s problem is not that he does not love you. But that he has a sexual addiction… this is an attempt to find love through sex. He is a very broken man who does not believe anyone can truly love him… so he keeps trying to fill that void. You and he may wan to read the book “Out of the Shadows” by Patrick Carnes, Ph. D. People do recover from sexual addictions, but it takes a lot of work.

Please read the material in the links in my signature block below. This will get you started in the MB material. I believe that you, personally, will benefit tremendously from this material whether or not you stay in your marriage.

I need to head out to work right now.. but will check back later.

{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}

<small>[ June 05, 2003, 12:50 AM: Message edited by: Eleonora ]</small>

rev<p>Please don’t take what I am about to say as my being harsh. I am trying to be real with you. I am currently in my 3rd marriage. Every one of my H’s has been a serial cheater. I have more experience in being the wife in this situation then anyone should have. So I’m going to tell you exactly how I see things with you and your wife. <p>As I said in my above post, I can understand why your wife is where she is at today. Her love bank has been seriously depleted. Given time, if you do the right things and she lets you meet her EN's, she may be able to have feelings for you again.<p>I am not saying that your wife’s affairs are right. There is never a good reason for adultery. Only that in her mind she has moved on from you. Her affairs are an attempt to feel loved and special again. She no longer feels like that with you.<p>Your wife is scared. She is afraid to trust you. You say that you are making changes. Well, it’s going to take more then a three or four months for you to win her back. You are being far to impatient with her. <p>When I called Dr. Harley’s office about some counseling for my current marriage they were not encouraging. They told me that it is very hard to recover a marriage when the WS is a serial cheater. This is because the infidelity is not caused by a spouses’ needs not being met. It is caused by the WS having a serious character flaw…. Today we call it Sexual Addiction. It talks a bold to lightening from God to change this behavior.<p>Here is a link to one of Dr. Harley’s letters/answers about forgiving and forgetting. The second has some points that I feel are pertinent to your situation.<p> Can't We Just Forgive and Forget?<p>You say that you have changed. Maybe you have been hit by that bold of lightening. But how on earth does your wife know that. You have promised her a zillion times that you were changed and that it would not happen again. I know that you did not say that here on MB, but I know that you did. I comes with the territory. <p>I was listening to the Dr. Laura show today. Some woman called in about having found out that her H has been having serial affairs for their entire marriage. Now that she has kicked her H out, he was suddenly decided that he wants to work on himself and their marriage and wants his wife to take him back. The wife is leery of his sincerity. She was contemplating either staying married and working on her marriage or cutting her losses and getting a divorce. She no longer felt any love for her husband. Dr. Laura advised the woman to divorce her husband and get on with her life. Dr. Laura further said that if the was sincere in his changes he would continue to work on himself and court his wife again. That it takes about 5 years to make sure that a person has really made serious changes in themselves. If after that time, her H was truly a changed man the wife would know. At that time it would be reasonable to remarry him.<p>Have you done the serious work required in the MB principles? What were your contributions to the current state of your marriage? From your wife’s post they were not only adultery. Have you listed those out? How are you addressing each of them? In you wife’s view, what are your love busters? What extraordinary measures are you going to take to assure your wife that you will never again repeat the adultery and love busters of the past?
Yes, your wife’s affairs are wrong. But on this thread we are talking about you. At this point in time you need to be focusing on becoming the best person you can be and you need to start courting your wife. <p>Rev, if you attorney is pushing you to file for divorce to get the upper hand, don’t buy into it. Of course he/she wants you to file first. Then he is assured to get your money as soon as possible. If you don’t file first then you might reconcile and he/she will never get your money. Attorneys are great at stirring up the emotions and making everything an emergency. Because they make more if they can keep their clients in this frame of mind. It makes no difference who files first in a divorce. If you file first, it will the nail in your coffin of your marriage.<p>Rev, you’ve done a lot of damage to your marriage. Your wife feels that she has no voice or respect. What are you doing to make her feel safe, to let her set the terms so that your marriage is balanced and she has equal footing with you emotionally and in all other ways? What compensation are you willing to give her… and I don’t mean money?<p>Figuring this out is where your time needs to be spent right now. <p>Just MHO<p>[ January 23, 2002: Message edited by: zorweb ]</p>

Z, and all others,<p>I came here looking for a way to correct all the damage I have done over the last 12 years. I didn't advertize my faults, but I never hid them from anyone. When my wife put up her first post, I emediatly put the link in my signature. I have never had anyone pass judgement on me in this thread, and for that I am thankfull. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Please don’t take what I am about to say as my being harsh. I am trying to be real with you.</strong><hr></blockquote>This is the reason I keep comming back. I get honesty and good advice. Honesty and Advice I can find nowhere else. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>In you wife’s view, what are your love busters?</strong><hr></blockquote>If I thought I could get her to fill out the LBQ I'd ask her to. It took almost 2 months to get her to fill out an ENQ. I'm having to make up a lot of things as I go. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>What extraordinary measures are you going to take to assure your wife that you will never again repeat the adultery and love busters of the past?</strong><hr></blockquote>If I read SAA and HNHN correctly, there are "Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery" and 3 "Extraordinary Precautions to Avoid A Former Lover". There are other things I need to do, but these are where I need to start. I have accepted them as a way of life, especialy openness and honesty. I hide nothing from her. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Yes, your wife’s affairs are wrong. But on this thread we are talking about you. At this point in time you need to be focusing on becoming the best person you can be and you need to start courting your wife.</strong><hr></blockquote>Agreed, her A was her choice and a bad one at that, but if I had been a better H she would never have done it. She is a strong lady, who has put up with more than her share of pain. It is time for me to make things right, by becomming a better person/H, and giving her the type of M she always wanted. All she ever wanted was for me to love her. I always loved her, but I never knew how to show it, and I didn't let her show me (make deposites) the way I should have. That is some of what the MB site and books have tought me, and why I am so thankfull that I found them.<p>NOTE, Self Serving Defensive Statement:
Just for the record, I would like to re-quote one paragraph from my post on page 7 right after poodle's <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I was unfaithfull for the first six years of our 12 year R. Since then I am guilty of accepting and calling one phone number with intent to cheat 7 months ago. I broke a lot of trust and caused a lot of pain. I also realize during that call the amount of damage I was causing, and choose not to pursue the A any further.</strong><hr></blockquote>She has also stated to me that she was happier the last few years. Lonely, because I spent too much time at work, but better than it once was. My W claims to have read this thread in it's entirety, and has not corrected the quote above in any way. If she corrects me later, I will post that correction. I only bring this back up to show growth in our M and provide a timeline that may have been missed.
END Self Serving Defensive Statement<p>Thanks for your comments, and please feel free to add more. I want to thank you for being direct. I can be a bit thick sometimes. Learning isn't always fun, and facing ones flaws is rarely painless.<p>Thanks,
Rev<p>[ January 25, 2002: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

Time for an update... of sorts (or maby just a vent) and a testement to Plan A. (not for the faint of heart.)<p>So far no D. I guess that's a good thing.<p>W and I have been spending time togeather, going to LOTR togeather with the kids and the like. W says I have become "Superdad". Kind of nice since family commitment is high on her list of ENs. In fact she says I have turned into a wonderfull person. I am no longer the person she left. If I continue this way, she will come running back to me. I assume, I just need to prove that the changes are going to last.<p>My quandry...<p>I spend time with her. She makes small LB deposites. Ocasionaly she makes a large LB deposit. She leaves, goes "home" to OM's house, (Claims they do little more than fight, and that she isn't happy there) making a medium to large LB withdrawl.<p>Orchid said I should strive for acceptance. Ok, got that. I can live my own life and do my own thing whithout any emotional upheaval now. I even had a major setback on the house and didn't get too twisted over it.<p>Any thoughts on the word "boredome"? I have gotten to a point where I can't get motivated to continue working on this. I feel like I'm chasing a carrot on a stick. I can't see that I'm any closer today than I was a month ago.<p>Plan A works. I'm making deposites, she's making withdrawls. The real question now is will her bank get full enough before mine is empty? I guess the race is on.<p>Thanks
Rev

rev,<p>I know you will post ... I wish we could buy patience. Good thing squirt starts seeing the changes and acknowledge it. Some WS won't and very guarded. Some detail if you don't mind, did squirt ever stayed at home at all or still in panic attack mode to stay ?. If she stayed, what is her excuse when she is leaving ?.<p>For boredome ... my conselor send me to talk to OM. Just ask OM what is his plan w/ W ?. Let them see their own fantasy. However I would not recommned this for anyone. I took a lot out of me to go through with it w/o incident. Check my post on GQII.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>... I can't see that I'm any closer today than I was a month ago.<hr></blockquote></strong>
I disagree, she is commenting on your plan A ... a big progress. She is enjoying being around you more and allows you to fill in her EN. You are way ahead of my M.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Plan A works. I'm making deposites, she's making withdrawls. The real question now is will her bank get full enough before mine is empty? I guess the race is on.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, plan A is not about EN or filling EN. It is to convinced WS that you are capable of change or changed person. To make you a better choice to your W. If WS allows you to fillin ENs ... jump for joys !!!. Also rememeber that squirt' LB is not start from 0 but overdrawn almost being a close account.<p>When is the last time you ask her to set her terms to come home and for you to put out your boundry ?. It is not an LB if you could talk and negotiate rather than in anger or disrespect.<p>Glad that you are still hang in ... I know you are a long distance runner too. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Hello all,<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by redhat:
<strong>rev,
Some detail if you don't mind, did squirt ever stayed at home at all or still in panic attack mode to stay ?. If she stayed, what is her excuse when she is leaving ?.</strong><hr></blockquote>Not yet. She says she can't do it yet. She isn't having the pannic attacks any more, just not staying. I still tell her she is welcome, but I've begun to give up hope. It's been going this way too long. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>For boredome ... my conselor send me to talk to OM. Just ask OM what is his plan w/ W ?. Let them see their own fantasy. However I would not recommned this for anyone. I took a lot out of me to go through with it w/o incident. Check my post on GQII.</strong><hr></blockquote>I'll check it out, I'm not sure I could do this w/o incident. I have had brief contact with OM in the past, and I think my ability to maintain controle is being replaced by apathey twards consequenses. I'm impressed that you could do that. It's not quite what I meant by boredom though. My boredom is twards "the chase" or "pursuit" of the M. Twards Plan A. I'm back to wanting some form of payoff for all the effort. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Actually, plan A is not about EN or filling EN. It is to convinced WS that you are capable of change or changed person.</strong><hr></blockquote>Perhaps my emphasis was in the wrong place. My point was that Plan A is taking it's toll on me. Drive and entheusiasm twards repairing my M is being replaced by apathy and boredome. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Also rememeber that squirt' LB is not start from 0 but overdrawn almost being a close account.</strong><hr></blockquote>This is why I'm still working on it. I can't quite find the words to explain this. I guess it goes way back to wanting the tinyest bit of progress. Without progress or some form of payoff, I start to lose intrest in things. I'm finding the same is true with this CoreOS thing at work. I've been trying to rebuild it since the first of the year without success. I'm tired of working on it and not getting any where. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>When is the last time you ask her to set her terms to come home and for you to put out your boundry ?. It is not an LB if you could talk and negotiate rather than in anger or disrespect.</strong><hr></blockquote>Yesterday. She still thinks I'm being pushy and clingy then gets defensive. I always make sure I ask her with respect and acceptance when I ask. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Glad that you are still hang in ... I know you are a long distance runner too. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] </strong><hr></blockquote>Why do I feel like "long distance runner" is synonymous with pathetic looser who doesn't know when to get on with his life?<p>Well, I guess that is an upbeat finnish now isn't it.<p>Thanks
Rev

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by rev:
<strong>Why do I feel like "long distance runner" is synonymous with pathetic looser who doesn't know when to get on with his life?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I again disagree w/ you. I had that thought came across my mind and I was looking for A, and I tried to court BE ... 13 years younger than me, a knock out brunette w/ very cute eyes, very smart, savy investor, financially independent and matching ENs. It is a challenge actually for me. Within a few encounters, I had been checked out by her freinds and got a thumbs up. My co-workers just could not beleive it. I really have to pull out and Jeffers, sing, Orchid and a few others knock my senses. I had "ice cream walk" invitation during the cold weather that I declined and then invitation to relax in the spa around Orchid's neighborhood that I have to declined it too. Rev, I could choose to walk out and never look back ... heck, I could even become an cake eater too, in her fog, my WW told me to find someone else. I stay and work on this M by choice ... that is not a looser. I am pretty sure you could easily find OW given your resume but you choose to try ... at the end no matter what is the outcome we are the winner. I am pretty sure with our understanding of MB and our plan A, we are ready to tackle the next relationship and protect it with care & love.<p>We have the power to choose but we stay [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] .

Rev,<p>Hm..... I understand, you are tired. Can't run on adrenaline forever. So don't. Slow down, don't rush to push her. You are already familar with your pace with you and the kids. Concentrate on that and forget her actions. Only when you see it will benefit you and the children. Otherwise, ignore her. I know this is hard but some of this means that you have to move forward with out her so she can see what she is letting slip out of her hands. <p>You will get there Rev, just don't rush yourself. <p>Listen to Redhat, hang on a sec.....RH where's that spa by me?!?!? Hm..... BE bothering you again? I'll send Jeffers out there next time with my squishy baseball bat!! LOL!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Ok Rev, back hard to do nothing, I know. But you can make it through all this mess. You got your little ones counting on you. Look at it this way, you are not losing her, she is losing all of you. <p>Gotta go and get some shut eye. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>L.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong> Listen to Redhat, hang on a sec.....RH where's that spa by me?!?!? Hm..... BE bothering you again? I'll send Jeffers out there next time with my squishy baseball bat!! LOL!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]
</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, I have no contact w/ her, it was the invitation to WatercourseWay in PaloAlto. She thought I get offended by her other email remark, she leaves me alone. I want to let her know that is not the case but I know my weakness and she hold the key. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]