iip, I am glad you are willing to give your M the last shot. You are in the good hand w/ SH.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by isitpossible:
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He confided this to me and asked me not to tell anyone. Is this forum considered telling? I don't think it is time to break it to him yet that this is not about me, but is about rebuilding our marriage. PLEASE COMMENT ON HOW TO HANDLE THIS.
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Thanks for internet, I don't know you at all, just what you want me to read. Your H doesn't know me neither. If H found out, you tell them that it helps your sanity otherwise you will need to talk (tell) to live human being or freinds. Take it right out of fogese dictionary.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>IF SHE MOVES IN WITH YOU, THAT IS A COMMITMENT. AND I WILL NOT SNEAK AROUND WITH YOU. He said he knew that. (SHOULD I SAY THINGS LIKE THAT?)</strong><hr></blockquote>
Watch out ... good thing H took it as no LB. You should be vague as much as you can. If you say something you better come through with it.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>He said that he knew I was ready, but the TIMING was wrong for him. He kept talking about TIMING, and that he might get there one day and he might never. He didn't want me to expect anything, but yes, he still has feelings for me. WHAT IS THIS FOGESE FOR and WHAT DO I SAY IN RESPONSE.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Just say, ok. Nothing you could do, H is in deep confusion (fog).<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>He also agreed to meet me for lunch with one of our children. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Good, good chances for showing your plan A. No LB !!!, rehearsh it like you will have a job interview, if you LB'ed you might have huge set back. I think that is what SH afraids that you will LB'ed.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>And you can bet that he isn't telling her about any of our conversations. </strong><hr></blockquote>
You have the house's card, I won't bet against it.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Normally I would have called OWH and told him this. But I will not, thank you all for the advice like that. You are right, I am vulnerable and needy.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Protect your weakness ... <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Do any of you have a story about the FOG lifting and if it was like a curtain rising, or sun shining so that it evaporates slowly. Either way, I would like to hear the story.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It depends on the individual ... on thing for sure for now it is in-out of the fog. Follows Echalon's thread His W' OM break the A and the A dies ... she still waffling but the fog lifted up immediately.

Where to start!!<p>I have not had time to post, but when I have been weak, and in need of support, I have gone to the website the last few days and read other people's posts and replies. It has been very helpful!<p>Update: SH talked to WH, and I don't feel like I got a lot of feedback from SH (in my call with him the next day) about his conversation with WH. He did say that he thought he had planted some seeds with H that he expected to grow. He said that H definitely has caring love for me, and remembers our being very happy together. But H doesn't believe in "our" future right now.<p>SH recommended to me to work on a Plan A, make sure that I read SAA and that for my H, the OM was an emotional barrier or excuse and that I needed to consider that. These are real surprises, huh? And I honestly didn't feel like I got a whole lot of individual direction. I am not sure even if he expects me to call back and if so when. Does he leave that up to the individual?? I felt a little disappointed with our sessions. Why? I don't know but I will think about it. <p>Coming up with a Plan A -- the list of specific things to work on. How did you all figure that out? The EN, LB Questionnaires? My SAA book is not here yet. Does that give you some help on some areas to pinpoint for yourself?<p>Okay, now for the real update and my need for some guidance, redhat and JL, are you all listening? . I have told the OM that I am not being fair to him, and I have some unresolved issues and feelings about my H and my M that I need to work on and I need time and space to do so. He, of course, doesn't want to do this, but without being mean, he doesn't really have any choice. We had made some commitments to do some things over the next few weeks which include having already purchased airline tickets, and he asked me if I would still do these things with him. I told him that I would think about it. Coach me here, guys. I have seen him for about 5 hours since Friday, and normally we would have been together most every day. Am I supposed to go cold turkey? No contact? Probably.<p>Since my last post, my H spent the weekend with the OW. On the 4-hour drive to her house on Fri p.m., we talked on the phone for about an hour. About us, the kids, and why he is "on this path with OW" and he doesn't feel like right now that he can make a change. Just because I am ready, doesn't mean he is. I assured him that I understood that, but I just wanted a chance for us to work on some sort of relationship. Even if it were only friends, and that we couldn't do that with OW living in his house. (IS THIS BEING DEMANDING? I have stated it in such a way that it is positive, non-threatening. "I think it is good for us to spend time together. I am wondering how you think we can do this with her living here?" Please help me. Should I say nothing about the real issues in our life? What if he brings them up? And, keep reading because he went from saying on Friday that he was on a path and couldn't get off, to saying, in a roundabout way, he didn't know how to get off.<p>He said that OW has said some things about making a scene if she sees me in public, and he told her that would be bad news for her. Apparently they also have had some conversations about how she is going to react to the kids b/c of me and how he will have to communicate with me over the kids, and he said he has warned her not to interfere with his relationship with the kids. During the call, I was crying and telling him that I loved him and I was sorry for everything that I had done to get us to this point. I also told him that I had bought him a present over to his office, and that I found out that he had left early. (I wanted to say, you would never do that for your family before, and i have your time sheets for the last two years, and you never took off nearly as much time as you have taken off this year to be with her.) He wanted to know what it was and I told him a CD with a song that we danced to when we go married. He was definitely moved. I also had a card with my "promise" to him, on knowing and acknowledging some of my mistakes. I say some b/c this is an excerpt from a 5-page love letter that he knows I have and that he can have anytime he asks.<p>Another incident that I don't want to go into too much is that I picked up my kids from school on Friday and they get in the car and say, "mom, did you know that (OW) is moving in with daddy? We heard him ask her on the phone. He said I want you to move in with me. They seemed surprised and just dying to tell me. Then the kids get into this big deal about where are her kids going to sleep, there is not enough room in daddy's house, so i say they aren't coming to live with OW and Daddy, and they say you mean they aren't going to live with their mommy. and i have to pull over b/c I am crying so hard and tell them not to worry, bc/ their mommy will never leave them. This was so horrible, you cannot imagine, and if you can please tell me how you handled.<p>He came home on Sunday. (He could have stayed until noon on Monday, but for some reason came home.) By then I had seen some mutual friends of ours who were telling me that H told them that OW was had pressured him to let her move in with him, and get married, and that he knew what he was doing was "crazy." He told them basically "What can I do?" implying he was powerless to stop it b/c she divorced her husband, lost her job, lost her home, has no money, and is willing to leave her kids for him, and he feels responsible. Okay, fogese experts, is that his public excuse? And/or is this the fog rationalizing to his friends what is happening here? If he really is trapped, is there anything that I can do to help loosen the jaws of the trap? Shouldn't I let this be his decision? These thoughts and questions just swirl in my mind!!!!<p>Without making this a six page post, we have spent significant time together over the last three days. He came over Christmas Eve and we baked cookies together, and tucked in the kids, he stayed later so that we could talk. There was some physical contact between us. He told me he loved me, BUT (always a but). He said that OW has been so good to him and has done so much for him and how can he walk in and just say he changed his mind. She has done nothing to deserve him leaving her. (READ THAT SENTENCE AGAIN, it will be important later). She has been good to him, and hasn't done anything to hurt him, and I have. (By the way, logic just doesn't work with these people, does it?)<p>He knows (b/c I have hinted for a long time, that I have some "dirt" on her about her faithfulness to him), but I cannot and am afraid to tell him. I don't have "proof" and she is only going to lie and say that it isn't true and then it will turn him against me. Plus, it will only hurt my children in the long run when she starts preventing his involvement with the kids. He asked me repeatedly to tell him anything that I knew because if she had been unfaithful to him, "that's it!" <p>On Christmas Day, I had kids til p.m. and when he came and picked them up, we went to dinner together. It was very nice. We were all dressed up, and it felt so right. We talked like we hadn't in a long time. He held my hand in the car, and when we got home he followed me upstairs and told me that he cared so much about me, and that he found me so attractive. And let's just say that he let me meet is SF need. We spent some more time that evening together, and spent an hour on the phone. He asked me to come over last night while we were on the phone and I did.<p>Redhat, I am not calling this sneaking around, because I am not hiding anything. I am not going to call up OW and tell her, but if she asks me, I am not going to lie. AM I JUST RATIONALIZING?<p>We have had a great time. I have done a good Plan A. I haven't bragged about ending with OM but he knows the status of that. Working hard on no LBs and letting him see my changes and that I can be his friend. I am finally getting a sense that he is confiding in me now. I will say things about the future, sometimes jokingly and sometimes not, implying that we will be together and he will agree with me. I am reading on the website. I almost didn't go to dinner on Christmas Day b/c I thought I would be morose, but I got on MB and read some things going on at Christmas, and no offense redhat, but reading your post made me count my blessings, or at least the pretend time that I was having. I wish you well, and a better year. But I put a smile on, and went anyway.<p>I don't know what to do. First of all, i realize that this SF is one area where I have a big advantage -- we were always great together and I miss it, and that there were many times during our last year living together (before he moved out, during his A) where he would say his unfulfilled SF was his biggest problem. Right now, I don't want to say no b/c it builds a place for me in his life. But it changes things emotionally for me. I had to leave last night around 1 a.m. for a couple reasons, but one of them was b/c I could just feel his guilt. He says that he realizes he is betraying the OW. I, unfortunately have no guilt in that respect and he knows it? Why should I? He is my husband (at least for a little while longer. Will this be considered "cheating" for us as we put things back together? And will I wonder if he would do the same thing to me? <p>The one thing that I have not gotten into extensively was the blame game that H and I have played over the past few months. The legal battle certainly intensified that. I just wanted him to say, I am sorry and admit his mistakes. But what my C said, is that Craig is unable to emotionally accept any, even his share of the responsibility for the problems, breakup of the M. He doesn't want to be the bad guy. HERE IS THE BIG PROBLEM with his ending his A. He doesn't want any more guilt. He wants her to give him "an excuse" because he doesn't want the blame. HELP ME! And how can I help him? Get me on track. On a real analytical level, I can see how it will be hard for us to get past this if he thinks that that everything is my fault or her fault, and how can we be in recovery unless it is HIS decision?<p>I think that the fog has lifted enough even in the last week of a Plan A, for him to more clearly see what his two choices are: his family and me OR the OW. But right now she is still winning, or is she? <p>I have told him that what I would do, and did do with OM -- and that is this: tell her that he has unresolved feelings about me and our M, and that he wants some time to work on these issues, and that he is not ready to make the commitment. He just shakes his head as if I am crazy, and don't understand why this isn't possible. I suppose its the fog.<p>And there are two other things that scare me: his parents are coming to visit this weekend and are going to meet her (again -- since when they dated 20 years ago). I think that this will paint him into a corner. I have considered calling my FIL and telling him that H is wavering on his relationship with OW, and that we still have a chance to work things out and he should talk to H about it. IS THIS A GOOD IDEA? I know that my FIL would support that idea, but I don't know how he would take my call. His parents have typically tried not to interfere in their kids life. His parents know that there relationship started as an A, and I guess, have dealt with it. But I have talked to them recently a couple of times and have always had a good relationship with them. Advice, please. And plus, after he has been with her for a few days, I feel like I lose so much ground that I gained. <p>And here is my other concern: if she does move here, and it is looking likely, and it doesn't work out, look what that does to my kids (7,5,4). This will be very upsetting for them. Any comments about that.

isitpossible,
Just an observation, you are very demanding lady [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] but we are all here to help each other. Good thing you read other posts, it help me too, as sad as it is we sometime still could count our blessing. Go through also notable posts. Those are collection of Veteran MB's wisdom.<p>SH will not tell you what H is saying ... it is confidential !!!. SH accessing you and also accessing your H !. See how much work is needed in your M. I accidently taped my W conversation w/ SH and right away SH asked me how much do I listen ... I run out of tape [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] . From his tone of voice I suspect that he is glad that the last .5 hours is not on tape. Trust him, he is on your side & working for you [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>Usually, you have to make appointment right after H's session. Ask him he will tell you. He expects you to read and learn on your own for good thing, less $$$. You probably talk a lot about MB that SH might think that you know what to do. Only minimal coaching.<p>Actually, plan A is not about fulfilling EN(s) is about you fixing whatever your H is not happy about. So start the list of what your H told you before about you ... SF was one, but more specific, to show that you could be changed. The EN & LB you could ask but you pretty much should be able to guess it ... is it your own H!.<p>About OM, no contact, no but no if. If you go and your H finds out, where is your credibility ?. As you know there is no chance for fulfilling M, car & loving w/ OW let alone OM. Cancel it and send him a no contact letter, and really no contact. You learn how to cheat now, what prevent it for the future ?.<p>Please help me. Should I say nothing about the real issues in our life? What if he brings them up? And, keep reading because he went from saying on Friday that he was on a path and couldn't get off, to saying, in a roundabout way, he didn't know how to get off.
Let it go ... when he is ready he will bring it up.<p>Be strong ... I know how hard when A impacting kids. This should have push you more to work on plan A and end your own. You did the right thing by reassuring your kids about you will always love them and will never leave them. I did the same ... initally I told them that W want to stay with them ... now I saw some damage has been done, I told W that the deal is off and I will fight the coustody if we have to separate. My kids are much more happier these days.<p>Okay, fogese experts, is that his public excuse? And/or is this the fog rationalizing to his friends what is happening here? If he really is trapped, is there anything that I can do to help loosen the jaws of the trap? Shouldn't I let this be his decision? These thoughts and questions just swirl in my mind!!!!
Let it go ... just listen and remember that this is a fog that is talking.<p>Redhat, I am not calling this sneaking around, because I am not hiding anything. I am not going to call up OW and tell her, but if she asks me, I am not going to lie. AM I JUST RATIONALIZING?
You don't need to lie, tell her if she asked. H is your husband.<p>HELP ME! And how can I help him? Get me on track. On a real analytical level, I can see how it will be hard for us to get past this if he thinks that that everything is my fault or her fault, and how can we be in recovery unless it is HIS decision?
First thing first. Fix yourself and no LB. The rest will follow. When H is out of fog he will realize it but he might not want to acknowledge it. Don't beat the dead horse.<p>I have told him that what I would do, and did do with OM -- and that is this: tell her that he has unresolved feelings about me and our M, and that he wants some time to work on these issues, and that he is not ready to make the commitment. He just shakes his head as if I am crazy, and don't understand why this isn't possible. I suppose its the fog.
Well, you have to come through w/ it. It is not fog, I will not trust you either ... sorry.<p>And there are two other things that scare me: his parents are coming to visit this weekend and are going to meet her (again -- since when they dated 20 years ago). I think that this will paint him into a corner. I have considered calling my FIL and telling him that H is wavering on his relationship with OW, and that we still have a chance to work things out and he should talk to H about it. IS THIS A GOOD IDEA? ...
Don't go there. Don't involve any family member that is not only include your kids but also any family member. Read kevco- advice on WAT's guide for BS. Do not intefere, let it dies naturally.<p>And here is my other concern: if she does move here, and it is looking likely, and it doesn't work out, look what that does to my kids (7,5,4). This will be very upsetting for them. Any comments about that.
It is not on your account plus your can not stop it anyway.

isit,<p>You asked a lot of questions for this feeble mind to hang on too. Redhat answered most of them for you. I would like to suggest that knowing that your H doesn't want any blame or guilt, that he is asking you for material so that he can dump the OW. BUT...<p>I do think one thing has eluded your notice. The divorce will happen in a few weeks. What you may not realize is that it may be a good thing for your marriage. I can see you know saying WHAT IS THAT FOOL TALKING ABOUT! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Well, lets step back just a minute. You are both in A's although you have chilled yours. This whole mess started with your A. Now there is little realistic chance that your H is going to gain trust in you in a few weeks. However, you don't have just a few weeks. You have much longer. For even if the marriage ends your efforts to rebuild the marriage should not. More than a few people have remarried after working out the issues that led to the end of their first marriage. I would recommend that you view things this way for a bit.<p>Frankly given all that has happened what you and your H need is a NEW marriage to one another. The OW is a formidable foe because she is an old girl friend. But as you have pointed out she isn't exactly mother of the year nor W of the year either. She is grasping at straws and therefore will make many mistakes. <p>You are right it would be better if she didn't come here, but it may happen. So what to do? Your H has asked for information. You have no hard information but you have rumors right? I would tell him that you have heard things, you might even tell from where, but you must tell him that you don't have hard facts. It isn't your job to get hard facts on his OW, that is his job before he ruins his life, her life, and of course brings this woman into your children's life.<p>Now you know and I know that she didn't abandon her children just for him. In fact, while it seems like a heroic thing to do, it suggests that the relationship is doomed. If she will abandon her children for a married man, she will abandon him for her next fancy just as easily, in fact, more easily.<p>Of course she is meeting his needs, she wants to and is motivated to do so. Some of this you might point out to your H, but most of it I am afraid he is going to have to find out for himself. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Isit, you have started down the right path and you seem to be doing very well. Keep up the good work and don't get discouraged. Your H will have to face the music whether he wants to or not. Give cicumstances time to work and give your Plan A time to work on you. He will notice.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

JL and REDHAT, thanks for responding. I went back and reread my post and I am sure that you all could here the fear and desperation in all of my "demands." I am being careful with that around him, I promise. When he keeps bringing up his A and wanting to talk about it, it is hard to just listen. But I am doing the best I can. I will make a conscious effort not to even discuss guilt or responsibility. There is enough of that to go around. <p>I will say that I am getting mixed messages, particularly when I think about what my counselors have said, on the issue of my Plan A/unconditional surrender. <p>For example, I talked to my C this a.m. so she could talk to the kids' C about the OW moving in so that when H calls, they have the full picture rather than his fogese version. My C is cautiously supportive of my Plan Aing -- not letting OM be a factor for H anymore, and working hard on showing H the changes of my counseling and personal growth so far. It really has been remarkably easy to quit some of my worst LBs when I reach inside and find the love for him that I have, and let go of this anger. But, she said to me on the phone, that what I have to do is decide how long I will wait. She doesn't think that I should wait long, honestly. She also said that she really thinks and it is her advice that I start a policy of NO CONTACT (though she didn't say Plan B specifically) should start as soon as OW moves in. She says the OW cannot meet his EN, particularly when his EN include: FC, DS, FS (he was always clear that I had to pull some weight financially and from all accounts the only weight she wants to pull is spending). Currently the only RC she meets in going out with him and drinking. He likes her doing that as long as it is on the weekends (which is primarily when he gets to see her), but he will not like it when she insists on being with him 24/7. Or will he? Any thoughts about that? <p>My C says that it will only hurt me to "pretend" that we have a chance when he is so clearly moving on. What do you all think of that? <p>She also said that the OW would not "let go" easy unless she had another man on the hook. And my H would drop her like a hot potatoe if that were the case. So he says. I am going to think about that information I have on her from OWH. <p>According to my H latest update, she is moving here sometime in January. (I suspect the weekend of January 18). He has said that she has really unrealistic expectations about what he can give to the relationship on a daily basis while spending time with the kids and having a job that requires evening "customer" entertainment. Reality will not be as much fun as the fantasy weekend. <p>Redhat, thanks particularly for that link to notable posts. I have spent the last 4 hours reading (much to my children's disappointment b/c they want on the computer.) Those posts are great. I made tons of notes on Plan A components. I know I need some process time, so I am going to the Y with the kids shortly to help me get focused. It scares me that this might really be a "relationship" and not an affair, and I was looking for posts on telling the difference. Right now, it is definitely an A, but heading toward a relationship, with cracks in it obviously. But my other fear is that H will not want to have 3 broken Ms (I am wife2), so he will work very hard to keep it together, if it gets to that point. <p>What I most heard is that I need to understand that this is going to take PTC. I read somewhere that a minimum of six weeks of Plan A is necessary. I am going to count my Plan A as having started December 24. I really do not think that I can manage a Plan A very long with her living there. I guess I don't have to decide that exactly now. Or did you all set dates. I think I will set a minimum expectation of lasting until February 4. If I think about this in terms of small steps, I can get through it. I also keep hearing from everyone today -- "Let it go. You cannot control what he is going to do." <p>He is in process of buying or building a house, he did tell me that he told her that HE was buying this house, and it would not be her house too, though she is going to live there and I am sure that she will have all the say over the decorating etc. This REALLY hurts me because we built two very beautiful homes together and this was something that we really enjoyed doing together. Especially the last one because it was to be our final home. <p>Just a comment on your post, redhat:
I said:
I have told him that what I would do, and did do with OM -- and that is this: tell her that he has unresolved feelings about me and our M, and that he wants some time to work on these issues, and that he is not ready to make the commitment. He just shakes his head as if I am crazy, and don't understand why this isn't possible. I suppose its the fog.<p>You said:
Well, you have to come through w/ it. It is not fog, I will not trust you either ... sorry<p>What I meant is that those were the words that I used with OM, and that is what he should say to OW. He shook his head not because he doesn't believe me, but because he doesn't think it would be that easy to tell her that. I even asked (not in a demanding way) for him to give me and us some time, and that I would not expect him not to see her. He said that OW would never go for that. He didn't sound as if he were opposed to the idea, he just acts as if he is powerless to get out of this situation. <p>Believe it or not, I think H realizes and trusts that the OM thing is almost over. I say almost b/c I haven't sent the letter. He doesn't doubt me on this -- he mostly expresses doubt that I could be this "nice" forever, and he has also put forward suspicions that I am "conniving" to get him in trouble. I suspect when he says that is he is afraid if he would decide to try, that I would say "gotcha, just kidding." I teared up when he said that about conniving and expressed that I really loved him. <p>This was at the same time I asked him to come over for a bubble bath last night. I am really depressed today, and know it is because he didn't show up. He is back in the foggy world of the fantasy la la land when the kids leave b/c he is talking on the phone to her or going out with his buddies. Getting ready for weekend. <p>I tried to do the right thing when he didn't show up, I didn't call him at home and plead, but I did leave a message on his cellphone that my BB was lonely without him, which he would have gotten early this a.m. A part of me hopes that he laid in bed last night hoping for my phone call, which I did not make b/c he told me again "no pressure." Do you think I handled this well, and what should I do differently? How do you know when your requests for time are becoming annoying behavior vs. flattering? And I feel like I have the pressure of time. I am certainly not going to have the freedom to call him at home at 10 p.m. and talk for an hour once OW moves in. Or should I? ADVISE ON HOW TO DO PLAN A with OW living in. <p>Also, I sent him a pleasant an upbeat email today. I could have called him, but since I felt so depressed, wasn't quite ready to put on that happy face. <p>Thanks for your help. Kids getting restless. Gotta go.

Hello out there.<p>I have been working hard on my plan A for the past couple of days. I still don't have SAA but I am reading, reading, reading on site. Torizo's post is pretty interesting. Orchid, if you are reading this, you are way funny.<p>Anyway OM's stuff downstairs ready for him to have. I think he is read the site, because he appears to be trying Plan A. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Don't worry. Little effect. The hard part about this is that I am lonely right now -- this holiday weekend particularly, knowing my kids are with OW, H and all my ILs. One comfort is that most people have told me how they have seen straight thru her. But I have been keeping busy. Not busy enough. <p>Yesterday I called H house to talk with kids and OW answered the phone. I asked to speak "with my husband." I know that really made her mad, but it really made me feel good. <p>Anyway, I volunteered to get the kids for the night since the grownups were going out. H agreed. H brought over kids, and also brought cookies from his mom to me. I sent back two books for his father. I felt like that was a really good thing, b/c my husband used to complain about (well, everything really), but about making the effort with his folks cause we only saw them a couple times a year. I was always so caught up in trying to make everything perfect (to please H) that I forgot to stop and enjoy. He couldn't see or didn't appreciate all the work that went in to getting the house ready, cooking and taking care of three kids while they were all having fun. Now I know not to worry about appearance, and worry about your relationships -- big lesson in last year.<p>When he came to pick up kids this a.m., I had gotten up early so I would be showered and look nice. It worked. He sent kids to the car and closed door. Wanted to know how I was. I said fine. I know he saw OMs stuff in LR (that is -- living room, not a MB abbrev [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ), but I didnot comment, and neither did he. He kept telling me thanks for watching the kids. He asked me whether he should button or unbutton his shirt, and asked me to try. When I got close to him, he gave me a hug. I said miss you, and he said miss you to. I told him I loved him and he smiled and left. <p>I have gone through such mood swings today. On one hand, I feel some freedom just to be sad, and know that it is leading to peace. and then I swing to, I cannot do this, I cannot continue watching him make a life with OW!! and then my mind screams reality. YOU HAVE NO CHOICE. I feel sad. and then I feel like I ought to do something outrageous like go to Europe, and make him wonder what I am doing. Then I think I should just have no contact. And then I think, What if that is okay with him? <p>Here it is guys: the divorce process was so adversarial -- it only stopped b/c one day I caved while my attorney was out of town. I gave him $20K (rightfully mine) and he gave me 70% custody during school year. Yeah, I know -- what kind of man does that. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] But I can only say the fog made him do it. Plus, he does believe that it is important for kids to have a "primary residence" he was just holding kids over my head. He wouldn't have needed money so bad, but we are one of those $30K + divorces. <p>The point of that is that there were times the divorce process was so bad, that I was forbidden to talk to him by my attorney, b/c he would use everything against me. Like me saying, I only filed b/c you said you were going to and I wanted to slow down the process. So he said he would argue to get his attorney's fees paid. He even got my drug addicted brother, who was angry at me b/c I AGREED (and trust me, given how messed up my world has been, I didn't need anything else) to take in his 6 year old daughter (AGAIN) while he straightened up. Of course this request happened while he was zonked and then he conveniently forgot when he sobered up (yes, he does that occasionally)and got mad and came and got the daughter and called H and said IIP tried to take my daughter, i will help you take her kids from her. Nice brother, huh, but anyway, my family (mom, 4sisters, etc) did not spend one day during holidays together, since T'giving or Christmas over this crap. First time in about 35 years. I overheard H confirm this scenario with his attorney too -- what a hit. It devastated me. Needless to say, not too many H fans left in my family (no drug addicts family ever blames the drug addict, don't you know, but I stopped being in denial about this a few years ago. Tough love stops at the kid however.)<p>Oh, and does anybody know what the initials YPS stand for. Because that is what H kept holding up to me on a sheet of paper while my attorney was questioning his girlfriend about the 1.5 year affair. He was mad and said that she didn't deserve that. (my teenage sources tell me it stands for YOUR PU$$Y STINKS). <p>I digress. So there have been periods already where we weren't talking. We were however arguing via attorneys, major LBs, etc. How does this translate into a timing issue on Plan A to B [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] ? I think this means I have to do Plan A for awhile. And watch him be happy? What do you think? <p>Does anybody out there think I have a chance?<p>Part of my plan A includes letting him see that I have the FC that he wants, and that I can be his RC, and that I give him plenty of admiration. No LBs. My biggest LB was angry outbursts. Honestly, I don't have the energy right now and am working hard at letting my anger go.. I have only been doing this about a week. But it seems like a week in eternity. <p>I know this isn't a competition, but reading through the LBs section again with different eyes, I know that she is a big LBer with lots of selfish demands. And I know that she hates me and she hates when H and I get along. (She knows we tried to work things out this summer, and that makes her paranoid, according to H.) H has been nice to me on the phone in front of her, and he has NEVER done that. What will be her response to this? Anyone with a crystal ball? <p>It is almost scarier to have hope again, rather than just accepting that it may really be over. But God and my closest friends and my counselor, and my H (when his fog lifts a little) have all known that I didn't want this. I just didn't know how to go about saving my M. <p>Please let me hear from you.<p>[ December 30, 2001: Message edited by: isitpossible ]<p>[ December 30, 2001: Message edited by: isitpossible ]</p>