And Wat thanks for the tough coaching!

Lion,<p>Listen to what WAT and Faith have written to you. I know this stuff is hard. Nothing worthwhile in life is easy. I had days where I thought that life really wasn't worth it. When I couldn't believe my wife of seventeen years was anyone that I ever knew.<p>As difficult as this may seem to you, there is a path. MB concepts are probably the most successful method of restoring marriages. But I read what you write, and all I get is overwhelming hope and despair. And pointing to your wife and saying "she does this and that, she lies,...", all about her. Listen. Do you really think your wife is the only WS around who rewrote history, who was dishonest, who acted differently than the women that we fell in love with and married?<p>Lion, I've had 20 months of MB coaching - most of that working a Plan A on a WS. In most instances, I don't feel real strong giving advice, although I think my Plan A was very successful. At least successful enough to get my fogged-in, in love with her true solemate, 2-1/2 year affair wife, to actually abandon her affair and give our marriage a try again. And yes, she went through some really deep withdrawal afterward too. I'm getting twisted off here, but all I want to say is that your situation is so needing of a Plan A that I am completely in shock that Steve did not recommend that to you.<p>What you are doing now with your Plan A/B mix is just showing her how mean you can be, and that you can continue to hold a grudge. This "I have to tell my parents about your affair" says that loud and clear too. I also think it is more of the "woe is me" syndrome. Yeah, I may be off-base as to your true intentions, but I bet this is what she's reading from your actions. You don't Plan B a wife who has ended the affair and is going through marriage counseling. Yeah, she definately will still have feelings for OM. Probably will for a very long time - it's called withdrawal - but they will subside with time. But look at this side of it - you're not meeting any of her EN's now with this Plan A/2, we all desire to have EN's met, so what do you expect her to do?<p>You say she's dishonest - sending out resumes out of town, and she hasn't talked to you about it. Come on now. What would you do - give her two minutes? How about the possibility that she's moving on because her husband is not there for her. Because her marriage had problems even before the affair, that her husband won't own up to or try to change. Come on - Plan A is about changing you.<p>Plan A, Plan A, Plan A! Did you hear me? I said PLAN A!!! Any kind of modified Plan B at this point is just a joke. If you don't have the strength to do Plan A, then don't bother with Plan B. Just go ahead and open up the conversation with her, and start working toward divorce while you two are still civil to each other. You could probably do a reasonably easy mediation. And two years from now you can kick yourself in the b*tt wondering why you didn't try harder back then to make your marriage work.<p>Maybe this is tougher love than you wanted to hear. But if you really want your marriage to recover, you need to get with the program. NOW!<p>P

From a veteran of Plan A... then Plan B... then DV! And, have become the better for it all!<p>Listen to the words of WAT(Dave), Faith1 and persistant!<p>MB is all about making you better...
...because if you can make yourself a better you...
...how can you expect a lowly WS to do it!<p>I'll add "Consistency" to your "Patience" and "Time"...
...PTC...
...as per...Plan A - 101 (2nd ed.)
...and the followups...Plan B - 101 (2nd ed.) and Plan B - 201.<p>You can't Plan A and Plan B at the same time!
Plan A is the setup for Plan B!...
...a growth in your human development!
Both are to make you a better person...
...none can guarantee a return to a healthy marriage...
...that's life.<p>Do re-read... several times over the great links that Faith1 gave you!<p>Love.<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Jim/NSR

Lion I was reading the missaplication of plan A thread and saw this, I thought it might be helpful.
Until the WS comes to you with: 1) genuine remorse, 2) a commitment to end things with the OP, and 3) a desire to understand what went wrong and learn from it (implementation of the extraordinary measures, openness, and acceptance of your feelings), you have nothing of value.
Harley says, the ws may NOT ever show remorse, true or otherwise.
Plan B can end if the ws is willing to end contact and do something to repair the marriage (such as speak with Steve/Jen Harley.)

Thanks worthatry:<p>so what you are saying is they will always lie until out of FOG, that is very hard for me to understand, the best thing would be to write a PLAN B letter and wait... that way you do not get trapped in lying and bull they talk about....<p>well Wat I dont know I am giving up. I fully understand but I am not sure I can withstand the pain, also, if someone can give you so much pain can they ever love you back like they have before....<p>TheLion

Hi persistant:<p>I agree with what you said, I do not have a choice she moved out so plan A is not in effect, I tried it when she was staying with me for about 2 weeks, and before that for last 6 months eventhough I was not aware of the A....<p>At this point I do not have a choice but to plan B. Because the A is not dying its natural death and she is not ready to give up....though as per her words it is over by the OM, she still chases him via telephone and emails....she is having a hard time withrawing... DETOX does not seem to work.<p>Well thanks for all your help, I fully understand what you are saying but until she gets out of FOG we cannot get into recovery stage.....<p>I have not told my parents yet, they only know that we are having Marital problems thats all...<p>TheLion

Hi Lion!<p>I have something for you to read [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] . Click here, AND THEN read the "My Story" link that you also will see once you get THERE.<p>He SAID it!<p>[ June 17, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

Hi Lion,<p>Could you please maybe add a few more periods and commas to what you write. Some of it takes on an entirely different meaning without it. Please. I&#8217;d like to help you out, but sometimes I cannot understand your point.<p>Lion wrote to worthatry:so what you are saying is they will always lie until out of FOG, that is very hard for me to understand, the best thing would be to write a PLAN B letter and wait... that way you do not get trapped in lying and bull they talk about....<p>Well, Jennifer told me to just ignore what they are saying. Don&#8217;t try to make sense of it. It will do nothing but frustrate you. And it&#8217;s effort for no return.<p>Plan B letter and wait? Who&#8217;s recommending a Plan B letter, before you do Plan A?<p>well Wat I dont know I am giving up. <p>You don&#8217;t know, so you are giving up? You don&#8217;t know that you&#8217;ve given up? See, I don&#8217;t understand the message.<p>I fully understand but I am not sure I can withstand the pain, also, if someone can give you so much pain can they ever love you back like they have before....<p>Boy, you&#8217;ve been reading too many romance novels. If someone gives you pain, then they cannot love you like before? Where do you get this? Have you read SAA, G&T, FIL/SIL? Or for that matter, any material with case studies of spouses involved in hurtful affairs, whose marriage eventually works out. With work. Some to be better than the original marriage. That&#8217;s what I&#8217;m going for, baby, and I&#8217;m not going to let the hurt that she put me through the last two years stop us.<p>Lion wrote to persistant: I agree with what you said, I do not have a choice she moved out so plan A is not in effect, I tried it when she was staying with me for about 2 weeks, and before that for last 6 months eventhough I was not aware of the A....<p>Uh, so you think you were doing Plan A? I would probably guess &#8211; not really. So many people think they Plan A just because they are nice to their spouse, or try to make things better. Plan A is just that &#8211; a Plan, a procedure, a deliberate approach to meeting EN&#8217;s and not Love Busting. Did you keep a journal while doing your Plan A? Did you meet three EN&#8217;s each day, and note your LB&#8217;ing so that you could work on that too. Nah, I bet you just tried to be nice to her, and make things pleasant, and that&#8217;s what you&#8217;re calling Plan A. No points in my book (nor would it have been in Jennifer&#8217;s, who was coaching me). Probably repetition of the same old things that didn&#8217;t work in your marriage.<p>You say you can&#8217;t Plan A because she doesn&#8217;t live with you. Bull. So you cannot meet a Conversation need (her no. 1 EN, I think), if she&#8217;s not under the same roof? Ever heard of a phone, e-mail, postal mail? Of course, meeting her Conversation need is going to take talking more than the two minutes you cut her back to. This isn&#8217;t meeting EN&#8217;s &#8211; it&#8217;s just plain mean, snubbing. Not attractive to her; and you expect her to desire you for this?<p>At this point I do not have a choice but to plan B. <p>BS. BS. Tell me again about your Plan A, and how you&#8217;ve laid the necessary foundation to proceed to Plan B. Or is it just because you know your alphabet, and B comes after A. No &#8211; you&#8217;re not getting off so easy. If you&#8217;re going to do MB approach, then you have to do it right. No grabbing at pieces and then thinking later that I&#8217;m gonna let you say &#8220;look, I tried, and MB didn&#8217;t work for me.&#8221; Either do it right, or just admit you quit.<p>Because the A is not dying its natural death and she is not ready to give up....though as per her words it is over by the OM, she still chases him via telephone and emails....she is having a hard time withrawing... DETOX does not seem to work.<p>What better alternative (of a man) have you offered her? One that has changed? One that won&#8217;t use an excuse of &#8220;honesty, baby&#8221; to be spiteful and tell parents about the affair? One that won&#8217;t talk to her, snubs her. Yeah, she made a mistake, and she&#8217;s got no one to turn to now. Certainly no one to listen to her, understand her pain, and help her through withdrawal. Maybe it&#8217;s easier for me, because I&#8217;ve had a wife that has gone through withdrawal, and I know how much she needed me then. <p>I fully understand what you are saying but until she gets out of FOG we cannot get into recovery stage.....<p>Well, I think YOU need to work on some things, and then you&#8217;ll have a prayer for recovery. Otherwise, she&#8217;s likely to find someone else to recover with. Eventually the FOG of this romance is going to drift away, and she&#8217;s gonna be left with the same undersirable choices she had when she started this affair. Unchanged husband, or someone else.<p>Lion, you are killing me with this. Plan A, PLAN A, PLAAAAANNN AAAAAA. This stuff is basic. You are not the Lone Ranger, and only person here who&#8217;s wife had an affair. And the recipe for recovery is no different than the rest of us. Plan A. And no, it ain&#8217;t easy. It isn&#8217;t for whimps. I think you&#8217;re whimping out with this &#8220;can&#8217;t recover because she&#8217;s in the fog, she can never love me again if she hurt me this bad, she doesn&#8217;t live with me so I can&#8217;t change.&#8221; <p>Yeah, you&#8217;re hurting. And I&#8217;m not exactly Mr Compassionate today. But you need to wake up. You need someone to give you a good slap across the face and tell you to get your b*tt in gear. Or direct you to the Divorce/Divorcing board. Because if you don&#8217;t want to Plan A, then skip the Plan B lip service and head over to your new home.<p>Boy, eight pages of posts, and we still haven&#8217;t convinced you that you need to Plan A? We should be working on helping you determine and meet her EN&#8217;s, identify and stop your Love Busters.<p>P

Thanks persistant:<p>I really apprecaite what you have written, let start plan A, OK tell me what to do and how to meet her 1st EN Conversation...<p>Lets take action and see the results, keep in mind she is away, she is not living with me, she does not want to talk to me long, does not want to discuss relationship and A, does not want to discuss finance, does not want to discuss her day or job ? will not tell me who she has told about the A, (by the way she has told several people and asking me not to tell anyone).<p>Please let plan how to plan A.....<p>i have read SAA and I am reading HNHN.....<p>Thanks Persistant!!!<p>What choice do I have and how do I converse ? Please help me.
thelion

Hiya Lion,<p>Just checkin' in. I haven't read all your responses but here's my freebie advice again!!! LOL! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Howz about no talking with her and sending info via e-mail? Short sweet to the point messages. No emotions just words. Try that for a couple of weeks. Remember that she will not like anything y ou do anyway so keep it to a minimum. She is living away from you so make whatever contact you do have meaningful but not overwhelming. K?<p>L.

Thanks Orchid:<p>Will try your advise!
how about you how are you doing?
it has been a while since I heard from you.
keep us posted.<p>Thelion

Lionman - persistant and Orchid have offered excellent advice. Plan A, Plan A, Plan A.<p>Sure, try orchid's e-mail idea. Send cards, letters - better let us screen any thing deep.<p>But Plan A is much more than meeting ENs. You know about not LB'ing, but here's the real hard part: identifying and correcting your problems - and then demonstrating your fixes.<p>Do you have any idea what her complaints are about you? She had to come up with justifications in her mind to have an affair. I'm assuming you don't have physical abuse issues - which is clearly a reason for a spouse to seek shelter elsewhere - but you likely have some issues. Perhaps she's already told you what her complaints are, but if she hasn't, ask her. <p>Keep in mind that she may re-write history, but your goal is to take each "accusation" seriously. She may have a valid complaint(s) - maybe not. BUT TAKE CORRECTIVE ACTION FOR EVERYTHING!! Why? WHY should you do this even if she's re-written history?<p>Two reasons:<p>1. To show you're willing to change and to demonstrate that you CAN change.<p>Lion: Why should I change if what I was doing wasn't so bad? Why should I change if she's re-written history?<p>Because you want to be married instead of being right. SHE'S BEEN ABDUCTED BY ALIENS!!! In her mind, you are the scum of the earth. Everything you do is wrong - even when it's right. GET IT??? <p>2. You need to cancel all her justifications about how bad you are as a husband. Remove her excuses. Address the most trivial complaint. Kiss her butt.<p>Perhaps you chose your MB name for a reason? Too much "pride"? Please don't let your pride get in the way. You have us to validate that you're right. She is wrong. OK? Now just do it.<p>WAT

Hi worthatry:<p>You are right about pride, we both are LEOS...<p>I will try Plan A, will try mailing her cards, but on her EN she did mention affection is a very moderate need it is not on top 5....<p>hugs, kisses, words, cards, courtesies, does not meet her EN...<p>But to the contrary the harleys says do not believe in what the WW spouse says when they are in FOG, how do you know it is just a blame game to justify their actions about the A... Though I have not problem correcting or working on things which made her upset. One thing she mentioned is conversation, how do we converse ???? tell me how do I meet this EN which the OM is meeting the best at the moment...without the contact or telephone.....<p>No physical abuse issue, I dont even talk to her in a raised voice! I have never ever touched her rather I would even have SF if she is not upto it, for last six months I had urges several time but I never forced her, I believe that is forced rape.... No P Abuse...<p>
"Because you want to be married instead of being right." <p>I want to be married for right reasons and not just force the other person to be with me... Arent we trying to do that if we agree to whatever she is asking....<p>OK Wat I will try plan A, and see if the changes occur, by the way i have told my parents that we are having Marital problems and nothing more they understood and said it is upto us to make a decision they will be fine with whatever we decide.<p>TheLION

Hey, Lion. Over the past couple of days, I've been reading 8 pages of this thread (is this called a thread or string, or what?) and I've been waiting for you to say that you told your parents. Let me tell you what I did. Her parents stayed with us for about a month right after her A got hot and heavy. They knew that she was seeing OM... it was obvious. They tried to tell me, my neighbors tried to tell me, even my pldest son (14 yrs) tried to tell me, but I refused to admit it to myself. Over the next couple of months, I had many conversations with her mom. She kept asking me if I knew if she was having an A. Even after I discovered it and WS confessed, I was ashamed. I kept telling her mom that I didn't know. Finally, one nite WS didn't come home from work. I knew she was seeing OM, but, of course, she said it was over. I thought to myself "why do I want to keep protecting her?" I mean, if you can't do the time, don't do the crime, right? Was I suppose to keep it a secret for her sake so others aren't being hurt by her actions? She already stopped talking to her own parents, along with her friends, and her siblings, as well. They have a very tight family, but no one could talk to her. <p>So, I told them. I told them everything. And, yes, WS was quite angry with me when I told her. Why should I lie for her, especially it was her lies that hurt me the most... not so much the OM. Maybe it was wrong, but I sure felt better about it. Now, I talk to her mom frequently. I don't tell her everything that goes on. I know I broke my wife's trust by telling her parents, but they already knew... they just needed confirmation. And that's what I did. I keep the personal information to myself now. But, I think it helped my situation, and I know it hurt her A. WS had to make a choice between her OM and her family. She chose OM, but one day she'll figure it out. Even if this whole thing lasted, OM would never be welcomed at her parents home. This was the decision that WS made. Now, she has to deal with it.<p>So, can anyone tell me I did the right or wrong thing? I just think that she needs to face up to the poor decisions she has made, and accept responsibilty for her actions that tore my family apart. And if nothing else, my relationship w/ her parents has become quite close over this whole ordeal. Okay, there's my 2 cents...
[img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by thejohnsmith:
<strong><p>...... So, can anyone tell me I did the right or wrong thing? I just think that she needs to face up to the poor decisions she has made, and accept responsibilty for her actions that tore my family apart. And if nothing else, my relationship w/ her parents has become quite close over this whole ordeal. Okay, there's my 2 cents...
[img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Confiming suspicions of others is not necessarily wrong. They already knew. So if she is mad at you don't take it as hard. U did not tell them just confirmed it. Her acceptance of damage is not there yet because she is emotionally not ready yet. <p>She will see it enough to admit it but that will take time. In the interim continue working on U. I know this sounds like a broken record but that is the steps it will take until it is completed. <p>take care,
L.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TheLion:
<strong>Thanks Orchid:<p>Will try your advise!
how about you how are you doing?
it has been a while since I heard from you.
keep us posted.<p>Thelion</strong><hr></blockquote><p>My motto: Never argue with a lion!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>So I will provide the update as you requested. <p>We are doing ok. I put a post on GQII last week that PBR (psyco babble rabbit - OW) tried to call twice as H was trying to leave on his business trip. H did speak with her and he finally hung up on her. All I heard was constant babbling. <p>That is it for now. Still in recovery. He just came home from his trip so we'll see. <p>Aloha bro!<p>L.

Hi Lion,<p>Please let plan how to plan A.....<p>Now you&#8217;re roarin&#8217;. I think you need to try Plan A. Do it right. And if things don&#8217;t work out with wife eventually, then you can move forward knowing you did what you could. Hmmm, I&#8217;m not sure that was so motivational, but I think you know what I mean.<p> keep in mind she is away, she is not living with me, she does not want to talk to me long, does not want to discuss relationship and A, does not want to discuss finance, does not want to discuss her day or job ? will not tell me who she has told about the A, (by the way she has told several people and asking me not to tell anyone).<p>Ok, for now, let&#8217;s skip telling others or even discussing the Affair or OM with her. One thing I do know is that no one here ever made headway in discussing or debating his wife back out of an affair, by talking about the OM or affair. And even if she were to discuss it with you, it likely would cause you to get upset and LB, given WS&#8217;s ability to rationalize what they are doing as correct. Best to just not go there. Not till Plan B.<p>So, we&#8217;re not going to discuss the relationship, we&#8217;re not going to discuss finances&#8230; Hey, why would you want to do that anyway? Plan something fun instead. Tell her you&#8217;d like to go out and do something fun, no relationship talk, and ask if she&#8217;d please go with you. Go bowling, go shoot pool, go play putt-putt, ride bikes. What did you do when you dated? Show her that you can be fun again.<p>She doesn&#8217;t want to talk about her day? Hmmm, maybe if you could talk about her work, be there for her to unload on. Realize that it&#8217;s not going to be greatest conversation that you ever had, but she might feel like you have interest in her, and compassion about her work challenges, etc. Someone just to talk to without relationship pressure. Maybe if you could do that, she would talk to you. And yes, eventually, we can get to the point of talking more personal. But it&#8217;s not going to happen until she feels Protected. So you&#8217;ve got some groundwork to lay first.<p>Does she have an e-mail account. How about short e-mails during the day. Tell her about the house status &#8211; that&#8217;s probably something she has interest in and something the two of you could talk about safely. Is she still involved in decisions? I would be proceeding forward with that house with the expectation that eventually she is going to live there. Treat things that way. Make it known that she&#8217;s still your wife, you are still married, and that eventually this is going to work out as such.<p>Orchid wrote: Howz about no talking with her and sending info via e-mail? Short sweet to the point messages. No emotions just words. Try that for a couple of weeks. Remember that she will not like anything you do anyway so keep it to a minimum. She is living away from you so make whatever contact you do have meaningful but not overwhelming.<p>Exactly!!!<p>WAT&#8217;s advise on starting your Plan A was also good. Do I remember correctly that one time you said that you filled out EN questionnaires and LB surveys? Or that maybe she filled out one. Any of this kind of insight and information is very helpful. When I began Plan A, my wife wasn&#8217;t speaking to me. She eventually did fill out the EN survey, but it seems spiteful and off-base, and really more geared toward things she didn&#8217;t think there was any way I could meet. Or that she wouldn&#8217;t let me. So, I just started changing behavior, trying to meet EN&#8217;s that I thought were important, and just judged her reaction. Then after a while, changed to others, then observe. About a year later, she actually filled out the ENq for me, but by that time I knew what her EN&#8217;s were already, and how to meet them.<p>As WAT said though, the big issue is to provide Protection. Remember, Rules of Care, Protection, Honesty and Time. The four basic Rules of a MB marriage. Well, at this point, I suspect your wife is not too keen on Honesty and Time. But you need to be Honest, and try to get as much Time with her. Time alone is going to show her that you&#8217;ve changed. Time alone will allow you the opportunity to meet some of her personal EN&#8217;s. BUT, you can still Plan A even with little Time together.<p>Anyway, back to Protection. This is SOOOO important. Your best meeting of EN&#8217;s is going to go down the toilet if you cannot Protect her at the same time. No AO&#8217;s, no DJ&#8217;s, no SD&#8217;s. If you don&#8217;t know these, look &#8216;em up. Doing a LB&#8217;er survey for you may be one of the things that she will do. Even my active-affair spouse took great pleasure in telling me everything I did wrong to make her miserable. Accept this information, thank her for it, and tell her you really appreciate her feedback, honesty and openness, and will use this information to begin to make changes in yourself. Then leave her a flower or something in appreciation. Smile. Read her feedback and don&#8217;t get mad, but just understand this is her view of things (which is probably correct) and what you need to change. Show her you can change. I had an anger problem that took a lot of work on my own to alleviate. My relationship with my daughter, which had always been good, is now fantastic because of the changes. My relationship with wife, who I had more history to work through, is also coming around very well. Six months post D-day. And at one point, we had given up, split up everything, and working with mediator to finalize. Things can change.<p>Ok, so the best thing I can probably advise is to talk with Steve again, and get his coaching in formulating a Plan A. Once you&#8217;ve done that, I think some of the board feedback is good for keeping it on-track. The formulation and kickoff seems to be the first obstacle. When I was coached by Jennifer, the first session centered around identifying my LB&#8217;ers, and her EN&#8217;s. If wife wouldn&#8217;t have filled out the two surveys, then I would have been responsible for doing so. Then formulating a Plan to meet EN&#8217;s. Jennifer gave me lots of ideas. For instance, one of wife&#8217;s top EN&#8217;s was Affection. But wife said she didn&#8217;t want any from me. Jenn said that was ok, to not push it on her if she was not comfortable with it. But what I found out, from trial and observation, was that wife wanted Affection, just not physical kind. Occasional flowers were ok. Small gifts, ok. Buying favorite snacks, renting movies and leaving them for her, cards left for her &#8211; that was all appreciated. Eventually, occasional hugs were ok too.<p>Conversation. Hmmm. I think we talked about that above. Like I said, I think if you can drop the relationship talk, she will talk with you. After you&#8217;ve shown her she can do this safely, then it may open up more. That&#8217;s sorta how wife and I got started back. Someone for her to just unload to, about her day. Then she started depending less and less on OM for this, and eventually&#8230;<p>One last thing, and then I have to run. When I started MB, I told wife everything I was doing. The night after my first coaching session, I went to her and told her how sorry I was for my anger, disrespect, using guilt, all things that contributed to the demise of our marriage. We had just gone about 6-8 months of conventional marriage counseling that had only ended in mediation plans. So I explained to her that I wanted to try again, and that I was going through MB counseling, and that Jennifer was going to help me work on some things in myself. To help me be a better person, husband and father. That this was all about me. At the time, I asked her to give Jennifer some feedback, but that didn&#8217;t happen. At the time, I was also living upstairs in the house, but we talked rarely &#8211; only when necessary. Only slightly better than your situation. Anyway, I told her these things. The next day, I left a short card with similar message on her nightstand, and a single rose, baby&#8217;s breath in a vase. It was basically to signal a start. That things were going to change. And that I was getting help in doing that. To be honest, I don&#8217;t think she had much hope at the time, after spending so much time in conventional counseling.<p>Finally, I kept a journal. At the end of the day, I tallied everything I did that day to meet EN&#8217;s. I also honestly assessed LB&#8217;ers. My goal was each day to meet two EN&#8217;s. Each day. And in the beginning, I was meeting several trying to determine which made her happy, and which got no response. I would also use the journal to plan things I was going to do. Also, it helped me to write and jot ideas down on paper, and empty my head of them. I was having a very hard time dealing, and coping, and sleeping. The head-clearing seemed to help a lot.<p>Lion, I was coached by Jennifer for over a year, through my Plan A. I think the cost was more than worthwhile. She was someone that could really help me focus, her advise was always consistent with the program. I&#8217;d recommend that you continue to use Steve. You can post here for feedback on everyday stuff, but my experience with the EN and some boards is that some of the advise is not exactly consistent with what I was MB-coached. Well-meaning people, for sure. But not always completely consistent. But then again, I&#8217;m pretty hard-line when it comes to MB.<p>P

Hello thejohnsmith:<p>You are right.. My parents guessed it, my Dad point blank asked me is she having an A. i have told them no we are having matrital problems and are trying to reconcile but I am sure they know...<p>
I think I have to be like you how long can you take this crap just tell the truth to everyone, and let her deal with it..... she has to face the truth in order to heal and get on with her life with or without me, because the OM had his fun and has left....<p>thelion

Thanks persistant:<p>You have been a great source and help! I really admire your patience and guts to work on your M, I will re-read your notes and will try to work on plan A.... <p>Thanks once again!
thelion

Hi Lion,<p>Just checking back in. I guess I&#8217;m not real clear on where your wife&#8217;s affair stands. Has the other man moved on, and your wife hasn&#8217;t accepted it&#8217;s over? Still trying to contact him to resume things? Actually, that is somewhat good news, as long as OM stays the course. Him ignoring her, moving on, neglecting her EN&#8217;s is a sure-fire way to deplete his balance in her Love Bank. Harley says the feeling of love subsides quickly with needs neglect, just as efficiently as Love Busting.<p>She will eventually come back around. The FOG will lift &#8211; always does. At this rate, it might do so rather quickly. But she also has feelings for OM that are going to go on for a while. Even now, six months after D-day, my wife still has periods of withdrawal. And we can talk, and be open. Safety is the key &#8211; me listening and not LB&#8217;ing. A good thing is that we have more periods of Openness and Honesty now than in our previous marriage even before the affair. She kept things very much to herself, including her unhappiness. Something for you to look forward to. Yes, after the affair, I have a very strong EN for O&H. But in the meantime, you are going to need to be patient with the FOG, and following withdrawal.<p>I don&#8217;t know that I would lie about her affair. I just wouldn&#8217;t divulge information. I basically told parents that wife and I had marital issues. They really knew very little. To this day, no one other than wife, myself and OM know about the affair. Now, Jenn also said that if OM ever tries to contact wife, or returns contact from wife, that OM&#8217;s wife would be brought into the big secret. To help with the solution.<p>Gotta run again,<p>P