Hi persistant:<p>We have very similar issues...<p>Yes the OM has finished the A. but my WW is extremely obsessed with the OM and continues to reach him via telphone and e-mail, though most of the time the OM does not repond the problem is once in a while he does and that starts the process all over again, whatever greiving and withdrawl my W gets when he is not responding suddenly comes back when he replies. <p>Also, I dont know much of the story because my W is staying away and I have no way of knowing what is going on rather just rely on the info I was given by my W which is lie, most of the time, I cannot diffentiate between a lie and Truth...<p>Yes I am patiently trying to wait for the FOG to lift, but see no signs of it ending...<p>She kept things very much to herself, including her unhappiness. Just like your W<p>In my case I have this issue, she has been spreading the news and making me as a bad guy, she is not telling the truth to everyone, rather telling people including her mom that she could not get along with me that is the reason she has moved out not because of the A.... That is something I dont know how to handle....<p>Please advise, should I just get the truth out and we both will deal with it or wait and see her progress before doing that ????<p>Please advise, thanks P....
thelion

Hi L,<p>Back from lunch. <p>Yes the OM has finished the A. but my WW is extremely obsessed with the OM and continues to reach him via telphone and e-mail, though most of the time the OM does not repond the problem is once in a while he does and that starts the process all over again, whatever greiving and withdrawl my W gets when he is not responding suddenly comes back when he replies. <p>Well, yeah, you are right. Well, my wife and OM had gotten to the point of him contacting a divorce attorney, and investigating his chances of getting full custody of his kids post-divorce. That was important to him. Attorney advised him little chance. So, their plans to both divorce and set up family afterwards couldn&#8217;t happen. After a while, they just started trying to maintain it as a friendship, with no deliberate contact. But one event or another, one crisis or another, pulled them back together to renew things, as well as the physical aspect.<p>Yeah, your wife really won&#8217;t begin withdrawal until she realizes it is all over with. For that to happen, it has to be over with. No more returned contact from OM. But you cannot cause that now &#8211; nothing you can do about it yet. The Plan is always to make your changes (Plan A), then force her to make hers (Plan B). <p>In my case I have this issue, she has been spreading the news and making me as a bad guy, she is not telling the truth to everyone, rather telling people including her mom that she could not get along with me that is the reason she has moved out not because of the A.... That is something I dont know how to handle....<p>Yeah, well, no one knew about my wife&#8217;s affair. Nor did she say anything about it to anyone. Just said we had marital problems. Of course, said the same thing while we were scheduled to go to mediator to end the marriage. She lied. Let everyone think she was working on things when she never really had. That we were working marriage issues, when in reality she was plotting divorce and remarry. Like I said, they had the whole thing worked out. She still doesn&#8217;t see how much OM used her. Oh, BTW, he was a friend of mine, our families took vacations together, my daughter even spent two weeks at this house last year with his two boys attending a camp. It was all very ugly &#8211; to me. For him, he was trying out the whole family &#8211; my wife and daughter &#8211; before committing further. Someday, someday, my wife will see what a jerk he was.<p>Sorry &#8211; got twisted off there.<p>Please advise, should I just get the truth out and we both will deal with it or wait and see her progress before doing that ????<p>My thought would be to work on yourself first. In a way, what she is saying is true. She couldn&#8217;t get along with you, so had to move out. Of course, you probably wouldn&#8217;t let her get along, and have an affair at the same time as living with you. I guess you could respectfully tell your wife that it makes you unhappy when she misleads people like this. That you want to Protect her, and work on your marriage, but it&#8217;s very difficult when she&#8217;s not telling the truth, and expects you to collaborate her story. <p>This is a very touchy situation though, and something I would advise speaking to Steve about. I believe the old-school Harley would say let the world know about the affair, to get it all out in the open, and have everything stacked against her. But I also know the way that Jennifer and Steve have handled my own situation and others recently, and it&#8217;s been more like give the WS a chance to see a changed BS, and make the right decision to end things. And if that doesn&#8217;t work, everything goes public and Plan B. At least for now though, you could explain the difficulty that her storytelling is causing, and your desire to Protect yet still be honest.<p>P

Hi persistant:<p>Thanks for listening and advising, I dont know where I would be if you guys were not there to help. I really appreciate it.<p>BTW, FYI she has moved out 2-1/2 months ago, so she is living separate from me and has contact with the OM, I think I have plan A quite a lot, one thing I do not seem to grasp with plan A is that yes we are working on ourself than why do we have to give in all the Selfish demands the WW wife keep asking, without LB's or not agreeing with them defeat the purpose of plan A....<p>But I think I am at a point where plan B seems justifiable, because the A is not over and she is not ready to finish it...<p>BTW same story like you the OM was a very close friend of my W since college, I always thought it to be a good friedship, never in my dreams thought that it could lead to this, one thing i am still trying to uncover is was this EA there before we met or married, if that was there I dont think any one who would meet all my wifes EN would be able to have passionate love, to me it was a lie all along our relationship.... which is very hard to digest... I am not sure yet, though I have asked my W she says it just started 3 years ago EA... I do not believe that...<p>
Well I think telling the truth is the way to go....I am still debating that in my mind but I am convinced that I should do that though lot of MB fellows are against it saying that would be a big LB, but I think it has to come out for the A to die and healing process to begin... what do you think ?<p>Thelion

TheLion,<p>I was asked to come read your post by Orchid. She is drumming up help for you. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I guess my take on the telling people thing is simple minded. Don't lie for your W, there is already enough dishonesty. BUT, I wouldn't go around announcing she is having an affair. If the topic comes up and you really are placed in a situation of responding, then tell the truth and nothing but the truth.<p>I would also do as P has suggested, talk to her about what you have been hearing about what she has said, and warn her that if she plays the blame game in public you will be honest with these people.<p>P, mentioned the old Harley approach. I recall that you have been married for 5 years, and your W has had an affair for 3 years. You have no children. So my question is: Are you in love with the woman your W might have been when you married or the woman you know she is today?<p>This is an important part of your considerations during Plan B. I realize you are in love with her or you would have filed for divorce already, naming the OM in the petition. But, part of this whole process is for you to come out of it KNOWING yourself, knowing what you want, and having a good future to look forward to.<p>By the same token, I suspect your W is desperately trying to keep the affair alive, because she doesn't want to be left alone. She doesn't believe you will forgive her for all that she is done. I would guess you have no clue all that she has done. Hence my question to you. <p>You will need to know who/what you are in love with before you can really give her the assurances she will need. <p>Odd isn't it? You will have to assure her, when she has done all of the damage. In any event, I must go. You are getting very good advice, my only advice is to really know yourself well, then decide accordingly what your actions should be.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

Hi L,<p>Give in to selfish demands? Like what? Are you talking about keeping the affair secret? What other demands are there?<p>But I think I am at a point where plan B seems justifiable, because the A is not over and she is not ready to finish it...<p>Maybe so. How good or long was your Plan A. How successful in YOUR changes. 2-1/2 months doesn&#8217;t sound like enough time for changes to become habitual. She&#8217;ll know that too.<p>What did Steve say re: Plan A or Plan B. You counseled with him twice. No guidance at all on this. The only way I can think Plan B is if you are ABSOLUTELY at wits end, to completely shut her off, and also the affair to go public so that others do the same. End fantasy world. But Steve would have advised this route if he thought it was right.<p>BTW same story like you the OM was a very close friend of my W since college, <p>Not quite. OM was a friend of MINE and hers. Met him and family through recreational hobby of ours. A mutual friend. No previous history between the two.<p>To me it was a lie all along our relationship.... which is very hard to digest... I am not sure yet, though I have asked my W she says it just started 3 years ago EA... I do not believe that...<p>Well, three years is plenty to rewrite history. Enough for her to be in it so deep she cannot remember what happened before.<p>Well I think telling the truth is the way to go....I am still debating that in my mind but I am convinced that I should do that though lot of MB fellows are against it saying that would be a big LB, but I think it has to come out for the A to die and healing process to begin... what do you think ?<p>I think you go to the truth exposure at the same time as Plan B. Otherwise, in Plan A, you really cannot be doing things if you don&#8217;t have enthusiastic agreement. Right? Again, I would schedule another conference with Steve. Especially for such a significant move. You may be right. It MAY be time to shut down all contact and crash down her world. But, if she hasn&#8217;t seen something she desires in you, a changed you, prior to this, you&#8217;re really doing the same as moving forward with divorce. It&#8217;s one hell of a gamble.<p>P

Hi Just Learning:<p>You have excellent point, I am still not sure which women I fell in love with. but I can tell you this yes, the women I fell in love with was a totally different person i knew, today she is completely different, to answer to your question I am going to seriously think again for 24 hours before I tell you what I have discovered during my thought process....<p>As far as the truth you are right I should tell everyone the truth of course I wont be telling everyone, only if asked and the people question than I would say yes she had an A and we are still working to save our M...<p>OK I will tell her about the blame game and see what her response is.....<p>"P, mentioned the old Harley approach. I recall that you have been married for 5 years, and your W has had an affair for 3 years."<p>You see I was not aware of the A all these years I just came to know about 2-1/2 months ago when she told me.....<p>
"By the same token, I suspect your W is desperately trying to keep the affair alive, because she doesn't want to be left alone. She doesn't believe you will forgive her for all that she is done. I would guess you have no clue all that she has done. Hence my question to you."<p>Yes you are right, that is the possibility...<p>
"You will need to know who/what you are in love with before you can really give her the assurances she will need."<p>I agree with you here....<p>
Thanks once again!
thelion

Hi persistant:<p>There are numerous demands every day, from financial matters to getting what she wants, just plain stubborn, nothing else matters its all about me (her)! I.....<p>Plan A technically 2 weeks, but I have been playing before the D day that would be 6 months, honestly I have changed myself, stopped LB's trying to meet her number 1 EN which is conversation, though it is hard since she moved out and hardly talk to me.... but overall I would say I have changed and there is still willingness to change whatever areas i am lacking.... <p>No steve basically wanted to talk to my W she is not ready I gave her the MB phone numbers and asked her to talk, but she refused.<p>Yes you are right it is one heck of a gamble!!!<p>I would be better off playing with some real money up in las vegas.....<p>TheLion

Hi persistant & everyone!<p>I have sent a letter to my WW describing exactly how I feel and what we can do it has been 2 days no reply, do you all have any experience how long does it take for them (WW) to react......<p>theLion

Hi Roar,<p>What did the letter say? Did you mail or e-mail.<p>Hmmm, how long for a WS to reply. I'd say, in your case, sometime between 3 days (cause it's been 2 days so far and no response) and infinity (i.e., no response).<p>What do you expect her to say? A commitment to work on your marriage? Remember, she is currently navigating in a FOG, and you are asking her for direction. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>P

Hi persistant:<p>Yes I mailed it she received it 3 days ago, I guess I got the answer from you NEVER.....<p>I am done!
I am letting everyone know about the A and the Truth, whatever happens will happen....<p>I am done! persistant I do not have the patience and the courage like you sorry!!!!<p>bad mood, just there are too many things going on and i dont know what to do....<p>yes I was expecting a commitment to work on the marriage also I mentioned in the letter unless you stop the A there is no way you can work on M.. was that an LB? i am sure it is but how long can you take this, I have lost 30 lbs in 6 months... and I am losing my mind over this....<p>thelion
thelion

Hi Just Learning:<p>I have reached a conclusion about which women I loved....<p>I love my W when I met her the way she behaved with me till the D-Day...<p>I hate her from the D-Day till today!<p>However, I will not miss her from now on because I am done!!!!!!<p>I tried everything I have given this M all I had, I cant do anything else, I am falling out of love with the new W (WW) I am seeing unless drastic changes occur I am through...<p>Please pray for me.....<p>thelion

Hi Lion.<p>Your WW's non response to your letter comes as no surprise to anybody here.<p>As far as your giving up on her and the M is concerned, do you plan on contacting an attorney to file for divorce at your earliest convenience?<p>What have you done to improve yourself for a different relationship in the future?

Thanks TooMuchCoffeeMan:<p>I have not heard from you for a long time!!!!
I am sure you have read the last few post...<p>Yes I am ready to see an attorney pretty soon, will do it as soon as I calm down a bit, It is one of those days!!!!!<p>Well what you are saying is I should not expect any reply from my WW... that would help right?<p>I have stopped LBing learned a lot on MB boards, from my readings, and I am a better and improved individual and will be very careful with my new relationship....<p>Thanks Too Much Coffee!!!!
Hope you and your daughters are doing fine....<p>thelion

TheLion,<p>You know the MB approach doesn't save every marriage but what is being suggested to you is that you get some GOOD out of all of this. That is you become a more aware, a more giving, and more sensitive human being.<p>However, the first question anyone that comes here is asked is: Do you want to save your marriage? If you do there are things you can do and it seems you have done many of them. If you don't then the lawyer's office is the appropriate stop.<p>I would caution that patience is required here. If you file, not LB her, and don't try to get revenge by telling people that have no business knowing what is going (almost anyone really). But if this is the path you have choosen, the procede with dignity, and calm resolve. One never knows what the future holds, but my bet is that there will be good things for you if you have learned from this experience.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

Hi again Lion.<p>Me and the girls are doing just great, thank you for asking. My oldest turned 14 today [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] and is going thru that adolescent phase of trying to act all grown up but yet depending on daddy for her desired purchases - make up, fashion clothing, allowance money, etc, etc [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] My youngest girl is not nearly as high maintenance as her older sister but she is 3 years younger and I am bracing myself for a history repeat in 3 years hence [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] But I'm enjoying all of this because once they grow up, I'll be lucky if I see them at all.<p>I'm glad that the MB stuff has done you good like it has me. Just Learning is right that not all marriages can be saved or should be saved for that matter - even Willard Harley acknowledges this - and that what in the end is more important is how we have grown from the trauma of infidelity as human beigns so that we will better spouses to our future spouses.<p>Whichever way you decide to go, I will support you all the way. Have a good one.

Thanks Just Learning:<p>Yes I have learned a lot in past 6 months and especially at MB boards, I will never forget this, also, I had wonderful company here, though I dont know many of you pesonally but it has been a tremendous help.... Thanks for all your efforts, I sincerely appreciate it.<p>TheLION

Hi TooMuchCoffeeMan:<p>Thanks TMC, I am glad to hear that the girls are doing fine, I wish you all the best, I am sure you will the best father to your girls in the whole world, please take care of them....<p>As for me I am done, and I am moving forward, life is a journey they say is true to 100 cents for me, I will start a new chapter in my life soon and will be in touch...<p>Regards,
thelion

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TheLion:
[q]Thanks TooMuchCoffeeMan:<p>
Well what you are saying is I should not expect any reply from my WW... that would help right?<p>I have stopped LBing learned a lot on MB boards, from my readings, and I am a better and improved individual andwill be very careful with my new relationship....<p>thelion[/q]<hr></blockquote><p>Hey Lion,<p>Are you saying that you will go to plan B and leave us? Hm..... U know MB can still offer you support. If you are going the way of the D (IMHO I think it is a bit early for that but each makes their own decision), then please stop by the divorcing/divorced site. U will find support there also. GQII does offer general support but the other sites tend to focus on their specific subject. <p>Another point, MB offers support not just for the M but for us as individuals. Now I will ask and answer if you choose but you made a statement that I put in bold about your 'new relationship', I ask because I care,..... has this new relationship started already or are you speaking of the unknown future one? Just asking because though you have been the one trying it looks like you are having external influences. This has happened here at MB before. So please move forward but with caution. <p>I remember when I first came to MB, I was in great pain (like many), overwhelemed by the support and care of many but also very vulnerable. It was easy for me to become attached to some of the MBers here since they were as a group very kind. One of my biggest needs was for communication and reassurance. I got that here. But I had to learn that MB could not replace my family or mate, just help me first find myself, recognize where I could improve and t hem work on it. Then if and when the opportunity arose and my mate would be willing to work on our M, then I would decide whether I really wanted him back or not. <p>That is what MB did for me. In the interim, I went through a wide gammit of emotions. That roller coaster ride was not always because of the actions of the WS, sometimes it was due to my own personal confusion and frustration. Like a good personal trainer, MB taught me to control my emotions and feelings. I then learned how to properly focus and use the tools here and my feelings to set and accomplish my goals. I always knew my goals, I just needed to understand my needs better. For me I did not pay attention to my needs enough and when they pushed through it frustrated me. <p>Now the outcome was that I was able to keep myself above board. Keep and demand respect for myself and relinquish the hold that both the WS and OP had on me. I realized that the OW (in my case) was even trying to control me. Once that major secret was unveiled, I learned how to make the WS and OP LB each other without even touching them. Hm...... wanna know how?? <p>Ok, if I have peaked your attention. Let me know and I will share with you my ideas. <p>take care,
L.<p>[ June 20, 2002: Message edited by: Orchid ]</p>

Yes, please do share... !

Thanks Orchid:<p>I agree with all you have said, and I am exactly where you were, I have learned quite a lot on MB but it is time for me to move on...<p>At this point NO i am not involved or even thinking about new relationship. But I meant was whenever that happens I will be ready....<p>Thanks Orchid once again, i will be visiting Hawaii sometime this summer Aloha....<p>In my case my WW is the one pursuing the OM has no intention of continuing the A he has told her very clearly but he is a MAN so whenever he can use her for his advantage he has been using her monetary, sexually and meeting her only 1 EN conversation, I have tried all MB principles and lot of other things I am exhausted and that is why I am giving up....<p>Well if you have anyother advise I would love to hear... Please let me know.<p>thelion