Hi C,

How dare they expect you to take time from here

Yeah, I think I need a new contract!

Unless he wants tools, too. I might buy deadbolts for the doors between the garage and the house, then he could take things from there. I like that idea.

Oh, very good. Don’t stand between a man and his powertools! C, I think I would go ahead and change out the other locks – the locks to the house – too. I think if for no other reason that it would allow you to sleep at night. More secure. Or, you can just take them to a locksmith and have them all rekeyed. I did that about a year ago, when we changed maid services. I think it was about $10 per lock. Then you don’t have to worry about the new locks fitting in the old holes.

Just hoping to hear from Hoffs.

Ask HT to send a note to HoFS. I think the two of them trade e-mails.

Glad you’re up off of the floor. Now, take care of things – for you and your children. C, this is probably the step in your marriage that you should have taken long ago. But you’ve certainly exhausted all of the other possibilities to-date.

Send me strength, this is really hard.

I expect it is. Ok, woman, now go “roar.” Sorry, couldn’t resist. Nah, if I had a candle, I would light it. But I’m thinking of you. And praying for safety. And for him to see the light, finally!

P

Crier:
Be sure to brief the kids explicitly. Tell them to call 911 if any of the following happens:
1. H starts to break in door.
2. H is about to hurt you or any child.
3. H shows up with any weapon.
ect. Maybe other posters can help with scenarios.
I think you need to draw out these scenarios with the kids so they will know what to do if the need arises. I remember once when my step-father was physically restraining my mother and wouldn't let her get up from the sofa for about 2 hours. When it was over, I told my mom I considered calling her sister (who lived on a completely different coast -- who knows what I thought she would do), and my mom said, "you should have called the police." Well, if I had known that would have been ok with her, I would have.
Your children are looking to you for direction here. Let them know that it is all right to call the authorities if things get out of hand.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by curious53:

Your children are looking to you for direction here. Let them know that it is all right to call the authorities if things get out of hand.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks, I will. It's a good thought. I also need to talk to them about answering the phone. Although with caller ID, they usually don't unless it's their friends.

C

Jen,

Iwant to talk about your situation. There are some ideas I have that might help you get things moving in the right direction.

But right now, I gotta go buy locks.

C

And please everyone, this is so hard, keep me in your thoughts. From the JFO thread, tell AAF and any others who don't know how you got here where I am. I need you guys today.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by crier:
<strong>
And please everyone, this is so hard, keep me in your thoughts. From the JFO thread, tell AAF and any others who don't know how you got here where I am. I need you guys today.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">C,
Wow I am so sorry it has come to this.. but maybe this will help your H to "get it" ya know? I am SO glad that you, and your children are safe, that is the most important thing.. I am sending prayers and positive thoughts to you today.. ((((CRIER))))) I have never met someone who under such great stress at home, continues to help as many people as you do.. Please stay safe ..

aaf

Crier,

I just talked to a lawyer about the door locks. He basically said why not just let my H change the locks and leave it at that. If things are as amicable as we think they are, he'll let me in if and when necessary. He also said I could just rip off the new locks and put on new ones since it's my house, but then we just start a one-up-manship war, and forget being amicable. He suggested I simply tell my H it's unnecessary to change the locks, and that I'll respect his wishes not to come over or into the house without informing him first. I'll try that and see what happens.

I am eager to hear your thoughts later. If you want email me at daisybabe73@hotmail.com.

Happy lock shopping to you!

Take care,

Jen

C- I'm here. sending strength your way. Wish I knew what to say...

It looks like you got things pretty much figured out, so not much can be said except good luck and God(dess) bless you and your family.

On another note Jen has a post where your expertise might help her tremendously, here's the link:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=30;t=001422

Crier,
In answer to your question on p's thread.. I think it's time.. His behavior this weekend was totally unacceptable.. You do not deserve to be treated in a way that has you continually worried about your safety and your children's safety.. He has had AMPLE time and he has the knowledge of the harley principles to do something to save your marriage, and with the delivery of this letter, he will have a reason to put his knowledge into action.. IMO..

You are putting your boundaries in place.. You do not deserve to be treated in this manner.. and even though he's being nice at the moment.. you know the crash is right around the corner. A wise woman once said "Every one of us has the right to set out the conditions under which the relationship can continue! This includes Care as well as Protection, and is ESSENTIAL for Recovery." You know what the conditions need to be.. you have written them down.. You now need to protect yourself and your children...

JMHO

aaf (((CRIER)))

Hi C,

Thought I&#8217;d take it back over here. Now, please tell me why you wouldn&#8217;t do this? The shots across the bow have all been exhausted haven&#8217;t they? Are you starting to back up some thinking that maybe just Sat&#8217;s blowup with the kids was him rebelling against the negotiating stuff? Finally not able to weasel around or back out of doing his share of the work? And losing it realizing that you&#8217;ve finally figured him out, and you&#8217;ve got a way to end the manipulation?

Ok, let&#8217;s consider dropping the letter and the Plan B for a second. BTW, you&#8217;ve never gone to Plan B before have you? Anyway, so if you drop Plan B, where&#8217;s the motivation going to be for him to change? To seek help. To end the kid abuse. Ok, I feel like 50 questions man now.

Why are you hesitating? Because you are afraid of losing him? I hope it&#8217;s not a failure issue bugging you. But C, think real hard. What are you losing? From what I understand, you have moments with him, but the majority of the time is not safe.

Ok, let&#8217;s back up to MB for a minute. How&#8217;s your Love Bank now? Anything left in it? How long ago was it when you remembered feeling like it had a positive balance. Hey, pot calling kettle black &#8211; I think even Steve would say it&#8217;s time.

I&#8217;m a planning ahead kind of guy. I think separation, him getting help, and the two of you dating before moving forward again is the right thing to do. If I could think of another way to do this, yeah, I&#8217;d toss it out there. But I think you&#8217;ve exhausted everything else.

It&#8217;s getting late in the day, so maybe you want to sleep on it. Again, you really don&#8217;t want him to not get the letter and show up unaware. Wait another day if you want. But even if he shows up tonight with flowers, dinner, snore patches, and an armload of kid videos, you know tomorrow&#8217;s gonna be hell. C, this IS the right thing to do. You&#8217;re only question now is whether it&#8217;s too late for today, but certainly needs to be done no later than tomorrow. And yes, I wish there was another way too &#8211; but I&#8217;m clueless on what that would be.

P

Crier, ((((((HUGS))))))

Being constantly on the down side of a YoYo string, with a person who likes to "walk the dog" is no way to live.

As Rafiki would say to Simba: IT IS TIME!

Be strong - remember BPD's are very good at "acting" remorseful. But he has a track record here; and when you're praying "or spelling" for an alien take over, the odds are not in his favor!

This will work out. I believe you can put some positive energy in your own path to turn things for the good. And he doesn't need you to rescue him - you can't help him go through what he has to go through. You can only get in Goddess's way!

Hi, Crier! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I just wanted to let you know that I think you're doing all the right things here! Stay strong, and love your kids like you've never loved them before! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Above all else, stay the course! Don't be intimidated, or tricked into an early reconciliation! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> That's MY fear about myself it if ever came down to it. Know what I mean? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{C}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{C}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{C}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Let me know if I can ever be of help to ya! Okay?
Take care of you and your family, and I'll keep the prayers coming your way!

God Bless!

HT

I sent it at about 2:30 today. He usually works until close to 4:30. If he wants clothing he will have to email me a list of things. I'm not answering the phone if it's a number that could be him.

The locks are done. 19yo and I went to Menards and would you believe the $25+ each locks were on clearance for $2!!! Yes the goddess is watching out for me. Good thing, I bought 6 altogether.

I put the truck in the garage and barred the overhead doors. I need to talk to the kids, the older ones know intuitively what's up, but we are going to have a nuts and bolts conversation.

I just really didn't want to hurt him. I never want to see anyone hurting, and certainly not someone that I really loved at one time. I did so much damage in my first marriage and caused so much pain. I never wanted to do anything like that again. I feel so sad and so terrible.

Yes, I know, that no matter what he came home saying and doing today, the crash tomorrow or the next day (if not before bedtime today) would be terrible. And the fear. I can't live with the fear anymore.

To be afraid to have my children in the same room when he is there is just not ok.

But I am still so very sad. I really really loved him, once upon a time.

Thanks for sticking with me today. I couldn't have done it without all your support and care. And I hope I never need to do the same for you!

Blessings to you all my friends,

C

Well, I got a reply. Here it is. Calm and respectful, and hurts like hell.

"Ok, then.

Thank you for doing it so respectfully.

I will need the truck key -please put this in yourself so it doesn't
get locked
in.
Clothes-everything in my closet plus my jacket from the bed.
misc shoes from by the stairs.
Two oil filters in the garage plus the full 2 gallon oil. just throw
this loose
in the box of the truck
personal items- shavers, shaving gel,qtips,floss,
toothbrush,toothpaste,
medicine, advil,deodorant, soap
truck payment book, date you need ins. check every month
checks for my account.
flashlight-green from garage work bench
a towel and washcloth
a copy of whatever harley books you have a sprare of.
anything else you think i might need.

I will come later tonight. Don't wait up. I'll leave the key in the
car.

I want you, too."

Can't stop crying, again.

C

C - the more I hear about your H's outbursts, the more I think he really does have BPD. I should know, I grew up with a mother who shows all the signs. Never formally diagnosed, since she had to be hospitalized to get her to see a doctor. My father always said she was schizophrenic. She was ok on the upswings, and ok when on medication. Unfortunately, as soon as she 'felt better' (ie, no longer 'depressed') the meds went out the window and back on the rollercoaster we went. I never dared to admit to fears, or unhappiness, because they would come back to haunt me. I never felt 'safe' because I never knew what was coming. I could have Jekyl and Hyde in the same day, often the same hour. And like your H, she never seemed to remember what had happened. As an only child with a mostly absentee father, I had no one to tell me I wasn't the one who was crazy. I tried once, to tell a teacher what was going on. My mother went in for a conference and convinced the teacher I was telling stories because my mother was the nicest sweetest person you would ever meet and how could anyone ever believe she would throw her child out of the house. The neighbors must have heard her screaming at me, but no one ever did anything. I was on muscle relaxants for chronic stomachaches for a year. The doctor said it was stress. At 10-12 years of age? My father tried to help, but he worked nights and weekends and holidays. He wasn't home much and often I only saw him 1-2 nights a week.

Please consider this - do you want your children to live like this?

If you want to talk, you have my email.

HUGS
M

{{{{{{C}}}}}

C, you&#8217;re doing the right thing. Yes, everyone knows you don&#8217;t want to hurt him. It&#8217;s never been a revenge, or trading blows thing with you. Even the negotiation was in good faith and fair. You know your account is owed much more.

I guess you&#8217;ve written so much about the ups and downs, that I didn&#8217;t expect any other response from him than the one you got. Calm, rational, sorry, hurt.

Yep, a long discussion with your children. An explanation. But also probably some stern rules about them not getting involved. Them never mentioning this to him. I think it&#8217;s very hard for any male to hear &#8220;this is why Mom&#8217;s doing this to you&#8221;, or &#8220;Mom says you have a problem&#8221;, from a small kid. Almost a nah-nah. I think you understand what I&#8217;m trying to say less than eloquently.

C, actually, if his emails tend to stay like this &#8211; short, efficient &#8211; then you can probably live without the intermediary. Let&#8217;s just play it day by day.

Yes, you knew the minute you hit the send key, that you were going to feel bad about doing this. Get your kids though. Hug them. Work through this evening. Hope that this will FINALLY be the BEGINNING of something for you and H. You might also want to make a list at some point of what you require from him for the Plan B to end. And stick to it. And not be caught in a weak moment.

Now, I&#8217;m ramblin&#8217;, and you know I never do that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Getting out of here in a few minutes, but will try to check back later this evening. Thinking of you though. Talked with wife at lunch a bit about your situation too. She&#8217;d have been gone a long, long time ago.

P

C- is there anywhere you and the kids can stay tonight?

I would still feel better if you weren't there when H gets there.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Marissa:
<strong>C- is there anywhere you and the kids can stay tonight?

I would still feel better if you weren't there when H gets there.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not really. We're kind of on a limited budget all of a sudden. But my gut feeling is that it won't be dangerous. I've never known him to act badly except in the heat of the moment. Not the type to cold-bloodedly hurt someone.

I talked to the big kids first. They had lost of questions. Mostly about what BPD is and how it manifests. We talked about the kinds of things he'll need to address. They asked what I meant by "no-contact" and "limited contact."

I told them they had permission to call 911 if they felt I or they were threatened, but that he would be coming to get things on occassion and that my car coming up the driveway is not a reason to call the sheriff.

I have no idea what is plan is for the night, or for long term. I put this off for so long, worrying about the SA and the past hx of going immediately to strippers and hookers when things were bad at home. I always felt I couldn't survive that again.

Now, I just think I can't worry about that. It's his issue. He'll need to decide if being married to me is worth staying sexually sober and addressing his other stuff. I'm sure just being alone in a hotel room tonight will be a problem.

He'll also need to address his alcohol use. In the past he drank in order to justify the sexual acting out. And he drank when he travelled. So being alone overnight is the condition under which the drinking and the sex occured. He's back in that place again. And I don't know if he can make it.

But it's not my problem. I just can't handle the fear and the worry any more. I'm letting go. It is in the hands of the goddess now. I have no idea what the future holds for any of us. I guess it's an adventure.

I'm sure this will hit me in waves. Right now, all I can think is how nice it is to be with my kids and not afraid of how he will treat any of us. It's peaceful.

C

hugs to you c

Checking in to let you know we are all fine. Don't know if H got his things last night, I put the truck down the hill in the big shed. Slept fairly well.

Called my D and our HPs to let them know. Otherwise, haven't talked to family or friends.

It's peaceful here. And as long as I don't think about "Once upon a time..." it doesn't hurt too bad.

There are not enough words in any language to than all of you for your support, concern, and prayers.

C

ps/ Kayla, it would be considered unethical to do a spell or a working to effect change in another person <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> It's considered control. Only ourselves, or with someone's specific request or permission. And then, only with the intention that it be for the greatest good of all AND harm none. Like MB, Wicca acts on the idea that we can only change us. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ August 20, 2002, 05:57 AM: Message edited by: crier ]</small>