Ugh. Ok Cerri, here you go. HEEEELLLPPPP!!!!! I've posted this at GQII also just to see other's responses, but I really need YOUR insight. PLEEAASSEE. Here's what I posted.

What do you do when OP breaks NC? My W's OM#2, with whom that particular A was over before D-Day has broken NC. About a week ago he came into the resteraunt with some family. He knew she worked there because his mother had come in there and talked to my W. She went out of her way to avoid him but he went out of his way to make himself seen. It passed without incident (as well as possible anyway). Then 2 days ago, a phone call comes in while my W is at work. The name does not appear on the caller ID, but the person asks for W, then hangs up when finds out she isn't here. A short while later, another call comes in and the name comes on the ID display this time. It is a woman's first name but the last name is OM#2's. Coincedince??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Sure, and I've got Jimmie Hoffa stuffed in my closet with Elvis. My W and I area almost 4 mos into recovery and I am afraid this may set us back badly. I am also worried because I am also a MGR at this resteraunt and if he comes in there while I am there, well...you get the idea. So what to do? I'm at a loss save for going to his house and launching a pre-emptive strike <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . Not very smart but would make me feel a whole lot better.

So what do you think?

MTD

A pre-emptive strick would be the intelligent thing to do to make it very clear to the OM that you are not going to sit back and let him try to start an affair with your wife again. I would notify his wife about what her huaband is doing.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by madly_truly_deeply:
<strong>Ugh. Ok Cerri, here you go. HEEEELLLPPPP!!!!! I've posted this at GQII also just to see other's responses, but I really need YOUR insight. PLEEAASSEE. Here's what I posted.

What do you do when OP breaks NC? My W's OM#2, with whom that particular A was over before D-Day has broken NC. About a week ago he came into the resteraunt with some family. He knew she worked there because his mother had come in there and talked to my W. She went out of her way to avoid him but he went out of his way to make himself seen. It passed without incident (as well as possible anyway). Then 2 days ago, a phone call comes in while my W is at work. The name does not appear on the caller ID, but the person asks for W, then hangs up when finds out she isn't here. A short while later, another call comes in and the name comes on the ID display this time. It is a woman's first name but the last name is OM#2's. Coincedince??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Sure, and I've got Jimmie Hoffa stuffed in my closet with Elvis. My W and I area almost 4 mos into recovery and I am afraid this may set us back badly. I am also worried because I am also a MGR at this resteraunt and if he comes in there while I am there, well...you get the idea. So what to do? I'm at a loss save for going to his house and launching a pre-emptive strike <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . Not very smart but would make me feel a whole lot better.

So what do you think?

MTD</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The first thing you do in any marital conflict/issue/crisis is what?????

C'mon grasshopper you know this one.... The bedrock foundation without which you can go no where. HONESTY!!!!

Have you talked to your wife? Do you know how she feels? Have you told her that you are terrified and ill at the thought of contact?

"Honey, I want to talk about something, and unfortunately it's kind of icky, and I'm afraid to bring it up. I'm going to do the best I can to keep it safe and pleasant for you even though the topic is horrid. Please stop me if I hurt you in any way, and I promise to take a break and then try again. You are the most important thing to me, and I know I need to protect and care for you."

Then go on to tell her that you saw OM and it appeared that he went out of his way to be seen by her. And then tell her about the phone calls. Every detail, exactly what happened. Then tell her how you feel. THEN ask her how she would like to handle this. And THEN stop and listen, with your heart.

Notice that I'm not suggesting you tell her what you would like to do. Get her input and suggestions first. Find out how she feels. Honor and validate those feelings, they are hers and they are non-negotiable.

Once she's given her input on how she would like to handle this you have two options. If you like her suggestions... run with it. If they don't work for you, THANK HER for them... and ASK if you could offer some ideas as well.

If possible build on the ones she has given. Using the info you have about how she feels, try to come up with ideas and suggestions that take those things into account AND would work for you.

This is the heart and soul of negotiation. It is what Willard Harley's work is all about. Making decisions about your life (the little ones and ther really hard ones) that are respectful of and take into account how each spouse feels. In that way, and only in that way, can you build a lifestyle that majes you both happy at the same time.

I agree this is emotionally charged and that will make it more difficult to do. You've had some good practice with some other issues. If you think you can't do it, or if you get stuck.. CALL ME. I'll walk you guys through this.

Now take a deep breath, you'll be fine. The biggest danger here is not OM, it's slipping into a pattern of making decisions that hurt each other. OM you can't control.... the other thing you can.

C

Hiya Cer. Ok, situation taken care of. Let me clear some stuff up cuz I was a little hyped up when I posted this. I wasn't there when he came in, she was. She volentarily told me about it, her sister (whom works there also) confirmed everything my W said. No problem witht the trust issue. She was completely honost. I told her about the phone call. Not much was said over the phone, hung up on me. I did tell her how I felt. She feels immensly guilty. We have actually talked seriously about moving to another state. We have family in AL (yuck) and are considering going there to get away from everything(everybody). You know about the situation I had with OM#1 (my friend) and we occasionally still bump into OM#3. I ran into him at a gas station a couple of days ago. I didn't get gas, I just left. Good times.

MTD

Hey there.... what's up???

C

Sorry I'm late. I still don't have everything sorted out yet. I just keep having these very bad feelings/thoughts. I can't seem to get over OM's. I know I already bugged you about this, but it's not getting any better, it's getting worse. I dwell on it all the time. I have a hard time thinking of every thing else. Not just her being with OM, but mostly the lying, sharing her hear with someone when she kept me out so long. I feel constantly like I don't measure up to OM's... While in the "fog" she talked constantly about how great OM#3 was and I can't seem to get over it, any of them for that matter. I'm having a very hard time letting go. The problem is not her. She is doing everything I think she could possibly do. She is meeting all my EN's, and then some. I just don't know what to do about this. She feels I am falling into a depression. Maybe she is right. She read my computer journal the other day (it's nothing secret she knows she is welcome to read it anytime, it's just a timeline if you will of the day's events, also I am not very eloquant speaker but on pen and paper/computer I can write you a beautiful story or poem). Actually I like her to read it because it's easier to convey my feelings that way. I have a hard time expressing myself. ARGH. Way out on a tangent right now.

When she spoke of OM's she spoke of how great they were, most specifically OM#3. if you remember, she was still involved with him on D-day. She spoke of how handsome, sweet romantic (none of which describes me), she also talked about what a great lover he was, and he made her feel like I never could. She said she didn't know it could be so good. This is a very hard thing for me to deal with. One of the hardest things. Did I not give myself enough time between d-day and reconciliation?? I love her, don't get me wrong, but these thoughts wont' leave my head. We were making love the other day, and she was getting a little frustrated with me. She wouldn't say it but I coudl tell. I couldn't help but think to myself "I bet OM#3 never had this problem". I know that's wrong. I knew it at the time, but that didn't stop me from turning it into an argument and us sleeping on opposite sides of the bed. ARGH!! I can't even describe what it is I'm feeling. I just don't know what to do. I know what I'm supposed to do, but not how to get it done when I can't even describe it myself. I just feel so frustrated with myself sometimes I want to whack myself in the head with a shovel (figuratively speaking naturally). I know it's not much to go on but please HELP!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

MTD you might want to check out Rose Red's thread titled Husb. prefers OW to me as a lover..... because it talks about the same issue you are dealing.

{{{{{{{MTD}}}}}}}}

Dear, dear.... I didn't warn you about this strongly enough, did I? I'm so sorry.

Yes, this is pretty common. It happens to most of us with varying degrees, and it seems you got hit pretty hard. When the A is going on and the BS is doing Plan A, then the whole focus is on what you can do to stay pleasant and to convince the WS to end the A.

When that happens and you begin negotiating the conditions of reconciliation and recovery, your whole focus shifts to how relieved you are the the A is over. And you are almost on an emotional high because your spouse has come home.

But then, that eventually wears off and reality begins to hit... hard and fast. The cares of every day and the little irritations combine with the really hard work of recovery and that brings you down pretty quickly. You realize that life is not going to be just yummy great because the A is over and your spouse is home. (We all know that intellectually, but our hearts have other ideas <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

So then, the haunting begins. Thoughts of the WS with the OP. Reliving and rethinking the things she said while having the A. Comparing ourselves to what they said about the OP..... you know what I mean... And hey, if you're like me... it sometimes feels like there's a whole lot more than 2 people in your bed!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
Torturous, absolutely torturous.

So, first some practical suggestions, and then some marriage suggestions. Both are equally important... but if you only do one set, choose the marriage suggestions.

First I would highly reccomend that you see your family doc and ask about anti-depressants. (No this is not a sign of weakness... it's a sign of intelligence to take care of your health.) It takes people a few tries sometimes to find a med that works for them, but see if you can start with Wellbutrin... it has minimal side effects, especially in regards to sex drive.

Then I would suggest that you have a plan (gee I love that word!! LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) for what to do when those thoughts begin to intrude. For example, you can acknowledge that they are there (if you try to ignore them they just get bigger and uglier) and then you can replace them with some other thoughts.

Yes, that takes practice and time, but it will work. At first it will seem like there's no way you can get those things out of your head, but as you refuse to follow the thoughts where they want to lead you, you'll find that it gets easier and easier. The key is having a set replacement thought ready and waiting.

Now, marriage suggestions. Are you spending 15 hours a week together.. just you... doing things you both enjoy? That is the number one way that you will rebuild your marriage and eliminate the resentment (which is in essence what you are expereincing.)

As you learn to meet each other's needs, avoid the things that hurt each other, make your decisions in a way that is good for both of you, and of course base all that on honesty... then eventually the resentment and the haunting will subside.

Now, about honesty. This is one thing that you don't need to be sharing every time it comes up. If you have a journal that's open, I think that's fabulous. But for Mrs. MTD to be reading daily or weekly that you are having flashbacks and thoughts about the A will not help your marriage recover. It will simply continue to make her feel bad as well.

Not fair, you say?? Absolutely so not fair. But you can have justice, or you can restore the feelings of love in your marriage.

You've been through a lot. I suspect that some of what BS's experience is very much like PTSD. BE gentle with you. Explore the medication option. Have a plan for heading those thoughts off as soon as they start. And most important, do the things needed to restore the marriage, ESPECIALLY the 15 hours per week.

Eventually those things lose their power to hurt you.

Questions??? You know where I am!!! Hope that helps.

C

Hi MTD....Can I borrow Cerri for a few posts?

Cerri, since you brought it up....Time together. This 15 hour bit is something that H and I have never made a priority and I recognize the importance of it, however I have alot of trouble with trying to fit this into my life.

Of course I know you well enough to hear ther Cerri voice in my head that says YOU MUST FIND A WAY. OK, the problem...with the little one with Austism (the other big A in my life)...sitters are extremely difficult to come by. Part of my new un-approved by Cerri plan is to find a way to make the 15 hours work. The only way I can do so is with kids present. I can manage about 5 hours per week kid free time alone. That is with huge effort. Can we count time with kids if we do things like go somewhere that kids can be busy so that H can have undivided attention? Can you please help me find a way to make this work?

Thanks.

Oh, MTD....I still constantly struggle with the resentment and OW thoughts. Nine months later. I think about it many times a day. I try to acknowledge the thoughts and remind myself that given the choice...H would rather have me. Don't stuff your feelings...they will manifest in other ways. Accept and find a way to make peace with it. I suppose it is one of those time heals kind of things. I'm still working on it.

PDD

Well, look at that, you ARE here!!!

PDD:Hi MTD....Can I borrow Cerri for a few posts?

Why is it I suddenly feel like a Pokeman Card or a favorite sweater?? LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Cerri, since you brought it up....Time together. This 15 hour bit is something that H and I have never made a priority and I recognize the importance of it, however I have alot of trouble with trying to fit this into my life.

Uh huh.... <C nodding and listening>

Of course I know you well enough to hear ther Cerri voice in my head that says YOU MUST FIND A WAY.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Ahhh.... the sweet rush of power....

OK, the problem...with the little one with Austism (the other big A in my life)...sitters are extremely difficult to come by.

Yes, this does make it more difficult to accomplish, but OTOH it makes it even more necessary. The stress of having a child with special needs particularly in a step family situation makes it even more imperative that you have time to reconnect just as a couple.

Part of my new un-approved by Cerri plan is to find a way to make the 15 hours work. The only way I can do so is with kids present.

<nodding, non comittally>

I can manage about 5 hours per week kid free time alone. That is with huge effort.

How are you going to squeeze that out?

Can we count time with kids if we do things like go somewhere that kids can be busy so that H can have undivided attention?

The problem I see with that is the focus issue. Although the kids will be otherwise occupied your attention will by necessity be divided. You'll still need to have half a brain concentrated on making sure that they're ok... not kidnapped.. not beating up on each other... you get the idea.

See, it's not just being together for those 15 hours, it's being available and ready to meet the needs of conv. aff. RC. and SF.... hard to do when you're listening for children.

So, let's see what else we can come up with for some of that time...

Here are some thoughts I have and you can tell me to what degree you've explored them.

Hiring a high school girl for after bedtime or early on weekend mornings. You might check with your scout groups or other community/church groups, often these have incentives or requirments for doing service of some sort.

Trading childcare time with another parent of a child with special needs.

Bartering something with a person who has some skills in childcare.

Doing things at home once the kids are in bed...or setting aside time that they know is off limits... just for the two of you.

Some things that would be helpful to know.. what kinds of things do you like to do together? How did you do it when you were dating?

What kinds of things have you done as a family?

Helpful at all?? Let me know.

C

<small>[ January 21, 2003, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: cerri ]</small>

But then, that eventually wears off and reality begins to hit... hard and fast.

That is exactly what happened! Seriously came out of nowhere on me.

(We all know that intellectually, but our hearts have other ideas )

YUP!!!!

it sometimes feels like there's a whole lot more than 2 people in your bed!!

Again, YUP!!!

First I would highly reccomend that you see your family doc and ask about anti-depressants.

Yeah, I've been thinking about this too, but right now, because I've recently changed jobs I don't have the option for health insurance just yet, and since changing jobs has effectively cut my income by about 2/3 (no kidding <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ), doing it without ins. is pretty much out of the question.

Then I would suggest that you have a plan (gee I love that word!! LOL ) for what to do when those thoughts begin to intrude.

Any suggestions on how to do this? What about radical honosty? My W knows something is wrong, but I haven't come completely clean about this yet either. I simply don't know how to approach it without her thinking I dont' want her anymore.

The key is having a set replacement thought ready and waiting

What do you suggest?

Are you spending 15 hours a week together.. just you... doing things you both enjoy?

We are for the most part, though sometimes we end up cutting short, mostly because of babysitter issues. Tommorrow though we are going to a fight, we're going to hope a hockey game breaks out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . I have tickets for the Tampa Bay Lightning. They're not Bucs tickets, but I dont' have five grand to blow on SB tickets <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> .

Now, about honesty. This is one thing that you don't need to be sharing every time it comes up. If you have a journal that's open, I think that's fabulous. But for Mrs. MTD to be reading daily or weekly that you are having flashbacks and thoughts about the A will not help your marriage recover. It will simply continue to make her feel bad as well.

Unfortunately, that is EXACTLY what happened.

Ok, so I need to make sure the fifteen hours things happens, no excuses. It is a must, I know teach. But when I talk to her during these times are sometimes the most active times for my imagination, if you know what I mean. She will say something and I'll wonder, did she say that to OM's?? One thing is we've never had the "gory detail" talk, where I ask where, when and how. I didn't think it was necessary. I actually thought of it as counterproductive. Am I right in thinking so? Sometimes I think that if I knew the whole truth that maybe my imaginagion wouldn't run so rampant. But then maybe I think I just want to ask to punish her, make her go through everything again. AAARRGGGHHH!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I WISH THIS WOULD ALL GO AWAY!!!! Why won't it stop? Even now, it's all I can think about. <slamming head into refridgerator door repeatedly>

Another thing I should tell you, I haven't held back so far, why should I start now. Lately some of my thoughts have come in the form of violent daydreams towards the OM's. The problem is, I know how to find all 3 of them, and I am beginning to worry I may do something stupid. I know it sounds really crazy, maybe I am. I can look in the mirror right now and say I would not do anything so dumb, so childish, so STUPID. But what about tommorrow?? Or the next day? How long can I push these thoughts out of my head, or just go above them?

I really think I'm losing it!!

<small>[ January 21, 2003, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: madly_truly_deeply ]</small>

Hi C.

Why is it I suddenly feel like a Pokeman Card or a favorite sweater?? LOL

Actually you are alot like a favorite sweater. Warm and comfortable. Thanks for all of your help through these months.

Yes, this does make it more difficult to accomplish, but OTOH it makes it even more necessary. The stress of having a child with special needs particularly in a step family situation makes it even more imperative that you have time to reconnect just as a couple.


Well, I never thought about it that way before, but it certainly makes sense.

I can manage about 5 hours per week kid free time alone. That is with huge effort.

How are you going to squeeze that out?


Well, my idea is that I can be available for lunch most Fridays. 1.5 Hrs. I have a sitter on <onday nights for our class. There is the hour before when the girls are at class...we have that time and then the hour of our class. 2H. I can swing a couple of hours on Sunday when a therapist is with boy wonder. This is a good time to discuss/work through weekly assignments. 2H.

The problem I see with that is the focus issue. Although the kids will be otherwise occupied your attention will by necessity be divided. You'll still need to have half a brain concentrated on making sure that they're ok... not kidnapped.. not beating up on each other... you get the idea.

Fair enough. I was hoping that it would be minimal.

Here are some thoughts I have and you can tell me to what degree you've explored them.

Hiring a high school girl for after bedtime or early on weekend mornings. You might check with your scout groups or other community/church groups, often these have incentives or requirments for doing service of some sort.


This really doesn't work. He can be quite a handful and really needs someone trained to handle him. H had a company Christmas party to go to and my best therapist who has been with him for 4 years was babysitting. C to to peices about God knows what and ended up in a violent rage. She called me crying and said that other that call the police for protection she didn't know what else to do. We had to leave the party very early. You can't prepare a kid to handle things like this and you never know what is going to set him off.

He's been quite a stinker since school started this year. Autitistics do not do well with change and that is a large part of the problem. His world was turned upside down with the move. Change of school, therapists, etc. he is working on a world record for school suspensions this year. He has had at least 20 since school started in the fall. It isn't for the faint hearted. He is supposed to have a full time aide for school...that is another story...they can't find people either.

The real trick is to hire and train more therapists which is not as easy as it sounds. Since we have moved back here in June I have only been able to pick up one more therapist...I am always trying.

Trading childcare time with another parent of a child with special needs.


This is a good approch...however, most of the familes I have connected with, I babysit their children for extra income. Also...most of them have 1-2 children, I have 3-4 depending on where H's D is. I don't expect it would be easy to find familes willing to take that on.

Bartering something with a person who has some skills in childcare.


I suppose this would look more like finding and hiring therapists.

Doing things at home once the kids are in bed...or setting aside time that they know is off limits... just for the two of you.


Oh!!!! Yea! I forgot all about that...6 hours here.

Some things that would be helpful to know.. what kinds of things do you like to do together? How did you do it when you were dating?


Before we started dating, I had my home program running for 4 years already. I had a fabulous team of therapists that were willing to work. Obvious question is why now that I am back can I not just pick them up again. We use college students...speech majors, psych majors, etc. They graduate and get real jobs.

When I moved across town with him, it took me about two years before I was able to amasse a new good team of therapists. When I moved back here, I left them all behind except for my very best one who makes the trip out here for us a couple of times a week. She is engaged and now has a real job, so I probably can't keep her too much longer.

When we were dating we would often go to bars.. have a few drinks...he would smoke cigars and I would chain smoke cigarettes. Since, I have quit both drinking and smoking and many of his issues are alcohol related so that one is definately out. We had some of our best times in those bars.

Activities...movies, dinners, shopping, comedy clubs, plays. Also I used to go watch H play basketball which he likes but the novelty of that wore off. I don't enjoy it and can better spend my time. Sweaty men are sexier when you are dating than when you are married. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

What kinds of things have you done as a family?

Movies, dinners, parties (his basketball friends). Seasonal things like playing in the snow, Renisance festival, swimming, etc.

Helpful at all?? Let me know.


Actually, yes. Kind of brainstorming. And I added the RCQ to the list of Q's to complete.

Thanks...let me know what you think.

Donna Marie

Just to let you both know... the raggy old comfy sweater (who fantasizes about being new, see through, sexy, sweater LOL LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) is here and working today. Back at ya when I get through my mailbox and some phone calls!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

C

Just to let you both know... the raggy old comfy sweater (who fantasizes about being new, see through, sexy, sweater LOL LOL )

I am quite sure that I didn't say raggy. Of course I wasn't quite thinking see-thru either.

Thanks.
PDD

Could someone tell me what a "Plan A" is?....Help....

That is exactly what happened! Seriously came out of nowhere on me.

Yeah, I know. I still get hit once in a while. Not too often anymore... but once in a while.

C:First I would highly reccomend that you see your family doc and ask about anti-depressants.

MTD:Yeah, I've been thinking about this too, but right now, because I've recently changed jobs I don't have the option for health insurance just yet, and since changing jobs has effectively cut my income by about 2/3 (no kidding <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ), doing it without ins. is pretty much out of the question.

Ok, I see the connection, and I certainly understand the financial constraints. But let's look at the big picture... your marriage could be at stake here. How about trying St. John's Wort? Some people have good success with it? Also, what about exercise and relaxation/meditation? Try searching on "depression treatement" online and see what you get for alternative solutions.

C:Then I would suggest that you have a plan (gee I love that word!! LOL ) for what to do when those thoughts begin to intrude.

MTD:Any suggestions on how to do this? What about radical honosty? My W knows something is wrong, but I haven't come completely clean about this yet either. I simply don't know how to approach it without her thinking I dont' want her anymore.

Ok, honesty is always good. Honesty is also always about you, and always courteous. How do we put those seemingly impossible-to-mix things together?? You tell her that you are struggling with memories or pain left over from the affair. (those are true statements about you/your feelings) and that you are working on ways to deal with it. Do not drag her into the I-feel-so-bad-because-you-did____.

Reiterate that you are glad she's home, that you are committed to having the best marriage possible, and that you will work through this. And that she doesn't need to fix it.

C:The key is having a set replacement thought ready and waiting

MTD:What do you suggest?

It's hard for me to know what that would be for you. How about I give you a couple of examples from different areas in my life and how I deal with them.

The first is about me and my past, not about relationships. As a child I was abused and I think (but don't know, I have minimal memories) tortured. For years I dissociated and I had terrible irrational fears. For the most part, that is all in the past, but there are times when I'm alone at night that the fears will start/

Afraid of what? I still have no idea... just afraid. But it starts with the thought that I'm alone, that it's dark, that evil things could be there, and then it goes to the "what it" stage...

What if I heard them coming? What if I felt something move in the room? What if I saw someone?

Now, MTD... I'm 41 years old. I've run one succesful business and I'm starting another. I teach, I write, I parent, I interact in the community. I KNOW there is nothing in the dark that's going to "get" me. But if I let the thoughts go one step beyond the "it's dark and I'm alone" place... I'll be 4 years old again.

So I've learned that I stop them there. I refuse to think the next thought. I think about books I've read, emails I need to answer, stuff I need to do the next day, I plan my website, I plan my business strategy. Because I can't go down that thought path.

Now about relationships. I think you know that ours has been difficult.. to put it mildly. So when things get even a little conflicted my thoughts will immediately go to... it's the same as before, it'll never get better, he's hurt me so much and now it's happening again... all holding onto the past.

In a really weird way humans seem to enjoy dwelling on that kind of pain. We get a very perverse pleasure out of torturing ourselves with those kinds of thoughts.

One of the things about what I do in all aspects of my life is this concept of changing patterns, and that includes thoughts. So once in a while I'll find myself slipping into those torturous depths, and then I'll stop and say... no I don't have to go there. And you know what? I get a brief feeling of relief, of it being better, of contentment...AND I DON'T LIKE IT!!!! Now figure that out!!

So what I'm learning is that I need to stop those thoughts before they get to the dwelling and wallowing stage.

How? The first step is to find the trigger. What is it that starts the slide? This will be even before you find that you are struggling with things.... could be a conflict that's not resolved, a need that's not met, lack of sleep.... what is the trigger that makes you vulnerable?

If you can identify that (or those) then you can know where to take the initiative to proactively change what you think.

Some possibilities: your career goals and how to get there, what the kids are doing at school, your schedule, planning the next date, how your team did in the last game, jobs to be done at home.....

You can also DO something that requires thought. Play an instrument, read a book, do a puzzle (ugh!) begin a project.... taking a walk would not be a good idea because it leaves nothing but time to think.

We are for the most part, though sometimes we end up cutting short, mostly because of babysitter issues. Tommorrow though we are going to a fight, we're going to hope a hockey game breaks out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . I have tickets for the Tampa Bay Lightning. They're not Bucs tickets, but I dont' have five grand to blow on SB tickets <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

If I had five grand to blow.... it would NOT be on sports tickets!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> LOL Jewelry?? Clothes?? In a heartbeat!

Ok, so are you setting aside time each week to plan your 15 hours?

C:But for Mrs. MTD to be reading daily or weekly that you are having flashbacks and thoughts about the A will not help your marriage recover. It will simply continue to make her feel bad as well.

MTD:Unfortunately, that is EXACTLY what happened.

Alright then, no more... journal it here if you must and leave it out of where she can read.

But when I talk to her during these times are sometimes the most active times for my imagination, if you know what I mean. She will say something and I'll wonder, did she say that to OM's??

OMG... yes I know!!!! Just acknowledge to yourself that you have that thought and see if you can let it go. Remind yourself that she is with you, that she's committed to recovery, and that you are too.

One thing is we've never had the "gory detail" talk, where I ask where, when and how. I didn't think it was necessary. I actually thought of it as counterproductive. Am I right in thinking so? Sometimes I think that if I knew the whole truth that maybe my imaginagion wouldn't run so rampant.

You know, I don't have a good answer for this. It's something that I struggle with on and off. We didn't have that talk either. Not for lack of trying on my part... but he just always claimed he didn't remember. So I'm left with imagining all kinds of things.

Could you make a list? Take a week or so to do it. Put down all the questions that are haunting you as you think of them. Email me the list before you decide to give it to her, and we'll talk about it. I think getting it out in the open might be helpful.

But then maybe I think I just want to ask to punish her, make her go through everything again.

And that would not help either of you!

I WISH THIS WOULD ALL GO AWAY!!!! Why won't it stop? Even now, it's all I can think about. <slamming head into refridgerator door repeatedly>

Hey!!! Stop that! The neighbors will wonder where the dents came from!! (I have to admit, the visual is funny, though!)

Another thing I should tell you, I haven't held back so far, why should I start now. Lately some of my thoughts have come in the form of violent daydreams towards the OM's. The problem is, I know how to find all 3 of them, and I am beginning to worry I may do something stupid. I know it sounds really crazy, maybe I am. I can look in the mirror right now and say I would not do anything so dumb, so childish, so STUPID. But what about tommorrow?? Or the next day?

See, that to me says you really need to look at the medication issue. I'm not a doc and I don't know, but it sounds suspiciously like post traumatic stress disorder. Is there a reduced fee clinic you can go to. Hey! Call the United Way. They are fabulous and have helped me find resources on many occasions. Very caring and lots of good info on what's available.

Alright.... I'd really like an update from you before the end of the week. Tell me how you are and what your plan is for making some changes. I don't want to go into the weekend worried that I'll have to come and bail you out of somewhere because you bonked OM on the head with your refrigerator!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Let me know if those ideas help, and if not... well, I'll see what else I have in my bag of tricks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

C

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Kelli38:
<strong>Could someone tell me what a "Plan A" is?....Help....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kelli... here is a link to Dr. Harleys Plan A and Plan B descriptions. If you are dealing with infidelity in your marriage (which I assume you are since this is and infidelity board) then I really want to highly encourage you to GET OFF THE FORUM and read the articles, q/a, and other information available at this site.

Posters are well meaning and very caring, but you need a strong background in the concepts and the steps for saving your marriage. You need to get it from the expert.... and that would not be on the forum.

When you're done reading, search me out here or at the Just Found Out board and I'll help you with your questions.

Best to you...

C

Plan A Plan B info per Dr. Harley

PDD.... well little miss parallel life....

I'm glad to know there are parents in the world who spend more time in the principal's office than we do!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

We were there just again this morning to redefine our "plan" for the 8yo. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Alright then, high school kids are out, and adults are challenged, so we'll go with your continuing efforts to rebuild a network of helpers.

I see though that you have managed to eke out another 6 hours bringing our total to 11! Not bad. Now if you could get some phone and email time in there too, well.... we'd be on our way!!

I think the list of activities is good, and I think you'll find doing the recreational Q is fun.

So then, what does that leave? Waiting til he gets home to see how all of this flys?

I think you've put together a pretty comprehensive approach. If it doesn't work you could say you did just about everything.

What do you think he'd feel about going to the MB weekend? The next one is here ya know!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I don't have your post in front of me, so let me know what I'm missing. I'll be waiting to hear from you!!

C

Ok, not much but it's a start. I suppose I'll start with the list you asked for.

This is probably the hardest part. I can't even really identify the triggers. My W gets upset she seems to think I should be beyond this already. Gee, I'm sorry to dissapoint her... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . Ok, rant overwith. I just think of all the little crap. Every time we go past a Days Inn (where she went to be with OM#3) without thinking about it. OM#2 (my old friend) is working for one of those rent to own places, I won't say which, and I every time I pass one (and there are a LOT of them here in Tampa) I start to think about it. I think about how much trouble she went through to hide an A, but wouldn't spend any time on our M. About how she almost ended up in another A (would make that OM#4 and OP#5 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ) with a friends brother. This same friend helped enable her A. I feel like a complete moron everytime we see them. She still likes to go into her old sportsbars and see her friends, the ones who helped her with her extracarricular activities. This isn't supposed to bother me. We don't go there cuz she knows it does, but she thinks it shouldn't. It agonizes me cuz I think about what she said about him being a better lover and I go nuts trying to think about what he did that was so great.

I'm sorry I can't be specific, it just drives me nuts and I can't really pinpoint my what I'm trying to say really bothers me. Sometimes I honostly feel it's not worth the effort and I should just move on.

Even at the hockey game it was crap. We were there with a group from work. One of the other male employees sat on the other side of her during the game, and I kid you not, I almost thought she was there with him instead of me. There was no touching or any affection of course, but she spent the whole time talking to me and I had to fight just to get her to hold my hand.

Why am I even bothering with this? Is this really worth all the pain? I don't know, I'll try to sort it all out and give you more later. I promise my next post will make more sense.

Cerri, I have been honostly thinking of asking my W for a D anyway lately, all this just doesn't seem worth it. To much pain. Gotta go now. Thanks.