</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How do I get past the hurt?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">By realizing that you ARE loved by your H and God.

CoffeeMan -
Then my H gets through the hurt the same way? By knowing that he is loved by me and God? What if H believes in "Higher Power?" Doesn't know if that Higher Power is God or not? Then what?

BTW - I thought I was the only person awake this late at night!

CoffeeMan, what brand of coffee you drink ? It keeps you very alert, I want some <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by imready2try:
<strong>Thoughts??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As in any plan A ... PTC, patience, time & consistent. Right now you just pass 2 weeks of NC, give it time. It took you a while before you made a decision to have A, the least you could do is wait and be patience. Don't take his rejection personally, he rejects WW and it will take time before he will accept you as FWW and then as W again. You did the right thing to come back home and he did the right thing too to sort his feeling out. This is about him not you. Keep up the good work.

STTSI, Take your time !. As part of 5 stages greive, your anger will subside. I thing I would like you to do ... no matter how you feel, you should not reject her attempt to ammend you. Even you have doubt, even you are hurt ... let her fillin your ENs !. Time will healed both of you and don't shut your LB$ when she is trying. IMVHO, You are not a second choice, you are a better choice. Have you told her what ammends you are seeking to make you feel safe ?. I know you are shock by NC ... now for her staying w/ her parent, where else she could go ?.

STTSI & mrs. STTSI,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>How do we get past the hurt?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't judge the present with past history, take the actions on the face value and let time reveal the real intent. As anything else under the sun, it has a purpose for both of you. It could be the beginning of the blessing of fullfiling M. Again time will tell. I think both of you should post here but you can't ask directly to each other. You could vent here, you could ask question here, you could ask for support here but you can not post directly to each other here. If you want to do that you should pick up the phone and talk.

-rh-

STTSI ... just as reminder of the rule, stay away from answering this, it is for CoffeeMan.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by imready2try:
<strong>CoffeeMan -
Then my H gets through the hurt the same way? By knowing that he is loved by me and God? What if H believes in "Higher Power?" Doesn't know if that Higher Power is God or not? Then what?

BTW - I thought I was the only person awake this late at night!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

RH-
Thanks for being so supportive. Here's more though...

Go through and read STTSI's thread in GQII. It basically spells it all out for everyone - When I moved out of the house, I moved in with my parents. My parents did NOTHING to stop the A. They decided that I was 2? years old and I would make up my own mind. Ok, so... My H feels like my parents covered for me while the A was going on. So, right now - he trusts my mom LESS than he trusts me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> (I didn't think that was possible)

I know that it is hard for him right now because he is OOT - I also know that we are NOT ready to have me move back home. Right now, I am currently unemployed (because I quit my job to have NC with OM) so it is a little hard for me to look for a place to live on my own!. So I am kinda stuck!

One problem that I had in the R before was that I always felt like I was being controlled in everything that I do. That said, how do I NOT feel that way with POJA? What is the difference between my H not agreeing to something that I want to do and negootiating on it and feel like I am being controlled all over again?

I know that I canot rush this process. I know that he is hurting tremendously right now. I know that it will take time to heal. Tell me something, how many other WS's come here? How many of them are doing the things that I have done to try and make ammends? You, CoffeeMan and Chris seem to be knoweldgable - are you the BS/WS?

Thanks for taking the time to help me. I am still new at posting - but I spent most of the night replying to others' posts here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

-Imready-

That said, how do I NOT feel that way with POJA? What is the difference between my H not agreeing to something that I want to do and negootiating on it and feel like I am being controlled all over again?
Unless you are locked in a closet, the other cannot really control your actions. The may coerce you or argue against saomething. You can CHOOSE to NOT do things which are hurtful towards him or things which he is not enthusiastic about.

Using POJA, you negotiate. If you give up going out shopping alone, he then agrees to take you out shopping once a week and dinner once a week. Something like that.

It is not simply giving up what the other doesn’t like. In a relationship, you are both willing to do things FOR THE OTHER PERSON. The idea is if I do something for you, you will do something for me. Or vice-versa.

Just like in the beginning of a relationship. You do things for the other because you WANT to do things for them because eventually you expect to be liked/loved and have stuff done for you.

I am a BS, I turn WS to vice (paid), my M ended in Dv 12/31/02. You could check my profile if you are curious, there are many detail and OM is living with ExW. I learned MB on my own then through counseling with Steve Harley. Like Chris & Coffeeman, we had been around and learned a lot from posting and lurking at this website. This bring one worry that I have. You have been reading MB, conseling with MB and now conseling with cerri. However I don't feel that you really understand MB well. You know most of the term and the concept but once in a while we (Chris & I ) found out that you missunderstood MB, as what Chris pointed out in POJA. I really encourage you to keep posting the way you are posting. We could help you out. There are many WS that tried ... Jen Brown is one of them, TrueHeart is my favorite WS but there are much more BS. Occationally we have OP, OW more exact. We just have BS that actually start as OW then A become M <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> and now they are fighting for their M.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by imready2try:
<strong>My parents did NOTHING to stop the A. They decided that I was 2? years old and I would make up my own mind. Ok, so... My H feels like my parents covered for me while the A was going on. So, right now - he trusts my mom LESS than he trusts me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> (I didn't think that was possible)</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I won't trust IL that support A either <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> . It requires work to mend this relationship too. He trusts neither of you. He wants to wait and see if NC is true and A is truely ended. Did you send a copy of NC to your H ?.

Have you contact your lawyer to cancel Dv ? Why not ?. What did cerri tell you about this ?.

-rh-

Your's truly just got laid off today after 17 years with the same company. Our wafer fab was shutdown and we got our exit papers today. It was a great place to work, and everybody was sad because we all became like a second family to each other. I'm going to miss them all, but plan on remaining in touch with as many of them as I can.

I apologize imready2try for briefly hijacking your thread, but I hope I can make it up to you with my caffeinated rants <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

I agree with redhat, you need to read the Harley books 'Surviving An Affair''Love Busters' and 'His Needs Her Needs' along with concepts and Q&A on this website in order to understand the MB concepts thoroughly.

One thing going for you is that your H is also very much aware of the MB concepts (many WS and BS unfortunately are not). This makes following an MB oriented marital plan of recovery, so much simple (not easy) since you both are going to know what the other one is talking about.

You set you felt controlled by your H and I beleive this MAY have been because your Giver was the driving force in your relationship. You sacrificed the things you enjoyed because you loved your H and did not want to make him unhappy. Unfortunately, this only made your Taker stronger until the time came it took over and you fell into your A. That's why the POJA is so important, because without it, there is a dangerous imbalance between Giver and Taker, that can ultimately destroy a M. Use the times that you and your H meet, as an opportunity to POJA. Once you and your H get the hang of it, you no longer will be controlled by him and vice versa.

As far as me is concerned, I am a FBS who was not able to save his M. I divorced my exWW almost 3 years ago (May 27th 2002 and before I knew MB even existed) because she had gotten involved in multiple A's (PA's mostly) and flatly told me that she was not going to stop not even for our daughters sake. I begged, I pleaded, I threatened but to no avail and when she started neglecting her parental responsabilities, my remaining love for her died. But there is a happy ending to my story, because a year after I got divorced, I met a wonderful woman (divorced) who had gone thru a similar situation with her ex-WH, we both became best friends and months later we fell madly in love and are now engaged to be married (we haven't set the date yet). As for my exWW, she lost custody of our daughters and given supervised visitation. She suffered an emotional breakdown an attempted suicide, but was hospitalized and went thru therapy to combat her demons (two which were her child molestation and sexual addiction). But thankfully, the therapy worked miracles and now she is once more a functional human being with a job, an apartment, and unsupervised visitation with our daughters. She has expressed her remorse about how she treated me and our daughters during our M, and wished more than anything else, the opportunity to make it up to me and the girls. Unfortunately it's too late for us, but I have forgiven her and wish her nothing but the best that life has to offer.

Ooops sorry, double post.

<small>[ March 28, 2003, 04:29 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

"Basing your course of action on feelings,"

I disagree with this statement by TMCM in his post. If anything her husband is trying to look at this situation objectively. He is looking at her recent actions and trying to determine whether he wants to stay in a crippled marriage and be exposed to another affair sometime in the future. Of course, her husband loves her but that does not mean that staying in this marriage would be in his interests. He should be careful also from the point of view that IR2T may be mentally unstable due to the fact that she has contemplated suicide. This might suggest that she has deep psychological issues that may have nothing to do with the marriage but with her own demons. A marriage or religion should not be used as a crutch for emotional or psychological problems. In fact, only when a person becomes healthy and has resolved their problems should marriage be reconsidered. Her actions and remorse should be judged by her husband,(if he is still interested ) not by what she has been doing for the past 2 weeks since NC, but what she does to improve herself over a 2 year period.

Tomaz

I doubt that many would disagree with your points, but let's remember that he has been hurt and human beings, like animals, tend to lash out at what they perceived was the source of their pain. If he decides on a course of action in the heat of the moment, then he may be doing something that may come back later on and haunt him for a long time to come. That is why it is recommended that a person be as humanly possible in control of his emotions before deciding on a life altering decision. That was my point to him in that statement.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by redhat:
<strong>STTSI ... just as reminder of the rule, stay away from answering this, it is for CoffeeMan.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">RH I am trying to stay away from posts that are directed at my W. Thanks for the reminder though! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I don't know if my W will be back at the boards since Cerri suggests that we stop posting.

It has been a very bumpy road for us lately. TMCM, you are correct about basing actions on feelings. I am trying to keep that at bay and think rationally, it is VERY difficult. We both appreciate your help support and advice!

The rollercoaster continues!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Still Trying To Save It:
<strong>I don't know if my W will be back at the boards since Cerri suggests that we stop posting.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What a shame. Your W still needs a lot of clearification on many MB principals. I disagree with Cerri, as long as you & her use the board wisely and not to get at each other way & not to use it for communication between the two of you, it is fine. Both of you are going to be missed.

-rh-

RH- Have no fear I am ignoring Cerri and still posting here. She continues to yell at me though! I will tell my W that she will be missed.

Thanks again RH!

Hi Guys -
Yea, I know that I still need some clarification on some of the concepts <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

But, I believe that my H knows them pretty well - and with Cerri as our coach - we BOTH should know them pretty well Very Soon! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I will still be around - My H and I will continue to keep everyone posted on the latest GOOD NEWS! Things right now, like STTSI said, are bumpy - but I can only imagine that over time, they WILL GET BETTER <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

I especially want to say thanks to RH, CoffeeMan, Chris, JL and FH for all the supportive words! I know that we can do this! I also know that with God as the new foundation in MY life - I am a much better person - and God will help H and I get through this!

p.s. you guys can't get rid of me that fast <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ March 29, 2003, 07:14 PM: Message edited by: imready2try ]</small>

RH -
To answer your questions:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He wants to wait and see if NC is true and A is truely ended. Did you send a copy of NC to your H ?.

Have you contact your lawyer to cancel Dv ? Why not ?. What did cerri tell you about this ?.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, NC letter hasn't been sent. H is OOT right now - WE will send NC letter when he is back in town. Yes - I contacted my Lawyers as soon as H and I started e-mailing. Put a hold on D action.

I know it is hard for H to believe me right now. Today, I left for Church early (went to the bank). H called my cell wondering where I was. He wanted to make sure I wasn't with OM. I understand his concern - but with him OOT, it is REALLY difficult for him to believe me right now! That is the biggest problem currently! I guess it was my fault though - I didn't call him to tell him I was leaving early. I call him EVERY TIME I leave my house to tell him where I am going (But I didn't even think about it this time). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I can't wait until H comes back into town - when we can talk face - to - face! I think that things will be sooo much better then!

Thanks for all the supportive words! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by imready2try:
<strong>Put a hold on D action.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Cancel Dv, not on hold or postponed. Don't look back, if H want Dv let him do it, in which I do not beleive he would. Do not wait. Yes, be accountable about your time, I would even get a journal to write it down and H could take a look at it any time. Plam Pilot or Window CE would make it easier.

It is a very long journey but you are walking toward a fullfiling M. Be patient and consistent and give time for H to see it.

-rh-

<small>[ March 29, 2003, 08:23 PM: Message edited by: redhat ]</small>

RH -
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Window CE </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What is that?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't look back, if H want Dv let him do it, in which I do not beleive he would. Do not wait. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think that WE are going to talk about this when he comes back into town! Things are going okay tonight! Thanks for the supportive words! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I use Palm pilot/Palm OS but there are other devices that running Window operating systems.

Good luck & keep up updated -rh-

To both of you: I'd suggest you both keep posting also. You may however want to change identity names.

To I'm ready: Keep in mind that recovery is a slow process. If you want your H back you need to be patient. Just because you are now finally ready doesn't maean he can be on your time table. Most WS make the mistake of thinking," I'm ready to recover so let's move on." I've learned from personal experiences that that may only delay true recovery. I think that most BS jump into Plan A so quickly to save M's they don't really have time to grieve over the A. I also think that many make the "knee jerk" reaction that they want to save their M's. These sorting out thoughts sometimes come after Recovery starts.

Just a few thoughts.

Good luck to you both.