WW called today and said she wanted to talk. She stopped in after work. She said she wants to come back home for the kids. She says she has no feelings for me and will not go to counceling if I let her come back. She said maybe later down the road. I told her she would have to have no contact with other man, none at all, no phone calls, no seeing him, no emails. She kinda agreed to this, but she wants me to think about it and she wants to think about it also. I said it would be difficult and things won't be the same as before. She says she knows.

Should I agree to let her come home under these conditions? Should I tell her if she is only doing it for the kids then maybe she shouldn't come back? I don't want to live a lie with her. If she only wants to come back because of the kids, I'm still left with nothing... I want her back so bad, but I don't know if its the right time yet. I need help, please somebody give me some good advice...

Dear Lost, coming back for the kids is not the right decision. I think the NC needs to be made definitely and I would think her wanting her marriage back needs to be part of it too. It's good that she wants to come back but not for the right reasons. You need to set some definite guidelines and strict conditions that YOU feel comfortable with...

Hang in there...
D

lost-without-her,

You have extensive reply from your thread in GQII. What do you want ?. I don't beleive any season MBer would agree with you. She knew what she need to do but she is waffeling and still see if she could have the cake and eat it too. Unless she agrees on the term and prove it & even get conseling first, I advice you strongly not to let her in. Take it easy, let her earn it and date her, let her court you. If you let her in now you will regret it but it is your life anyway.

I even would like you to draft plan B letter and get ready to give it to her. JMHO

Either way, keep us updated - rh-

Redhat and Zacherysmom,
Thanks for the support. It's 3AM and I haven't been able to sleep. I felt like I made a big mistake in telling W she would be able to come back without counceling and only for the kids. I've been thinking about it ever since I told her that. Even before she left, I knew I had made a mistake. I wasn't strong enough to stand by my conditions and let her manipulate me. Well, seeing what you wrote, made me validate my feelings. I am going to tell her she is not welcomed unless she is willing to work on us. Because if there is no us then there is no point in coming home. I've lived this long without her, I can live by myself indefinately if I have to. I don't want to live in a one way marriage, even if it were better for the kids. And I don't see how it could be better for the kids if there is no love in the house... Again, thanks for the support.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lost-without-her:
<strong>Redhat and Zacherysmom,
Thanks for the support. It's 3AM and I haven't been able to sleep. I felt like I made a big mistake in telling W she would be able to come back without counceling and only for the kids.

I've been thinking about it ever since I told her that. Even before she left, I knew I had made a mistake. I wasn't strong enough to stand by my conditions and let her manipulate me.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have a few mistakes like that during Plan B with my W. The desire to take my W back is strong, but I know she will see it as weakness and it would be if don't hold to the standards she must meet. Thru hard knocks, I found it was better to right a mistake than try to live with it for the sake of pride. It eats on me until I finally straighten it out. (and I sleep better)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I can live by myself indefinately if I have to. I don't want to live in a one way marriage, even if it were better for the kids. And I don't see how it could be better for the kids if there is no love in the house... Again, thanks for the support.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It wouldn't be better for your kids. They need at least one parent that is a good example they can look up to, and is strong and reliable. Feel very good about yourself for that. Hope your W sees the light and joins you there soon. Sounds to me like you are now in the driver's seat and not in the passenger's. Your W knows it too.

I honestly don't beleive she is telling you the truth about ending all contact with the OM if you allow her to come back home. I beleive she is more concerned with repairing the damage she caused to her image as a mother more than anything else. I would seriously reconsider your decision to allow her back under HER conditions because not only would you making the point to her that you do not want to live in a sham marriage but that you and the kids are strong enough to survive with out her if need be.

Monty,

DO NOT DO IT. Stick with the other posters have said, especially Redhat. She has to earn her way back.
I had a an identical situation in April of this year with my WW. She came back without many conditions...except she said she wanted re-hab...and to be a Mother again.
I allowed her to come home after talking to her about what we needed to do for us. What I shoud have done is to see if she was serious about trying to reconcile. Like a POJA. I did not. It resulted in a false recovery.
PLay your cards close to your vest. Make her earn it. The only way to find out if she is serious is to get her into action about the marriage. And that means a POJA. I would continue to talk to her, but under no circumstances would I allow her to dictate.
If you care to see my story it is under various subjects, but I amm sutre if you go to search and type in Gregg M. they will all appear.

Best to you, Monty.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Gregg M.:
<strong>Monty,

DO NOT DO IT. Stick with the other posters have said, especially Redhat. She has to earn her way back. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Gregg, I was just replying to Lost_Without_Her.

There is no way I am breaking Plan B with my WW. She is full blown into her affair and enjoying it from what I did see. I will say that I am feeling better since beginning NC with WW. I don't feel like the victim on Plan B.

Thanks Gregg
.[/QB][/QUOTE]

Monty,

Sorry. I got confused. Bt the time I realized I had made a mistake it was posted. My apologies.

I called WW this morning. I told her I didn't want her coming home unless she was in love with me or if she would give our marriage another chance. There was silence. She didn't say anything for a long time. Finally she said alright, there was nothing left to say. I guess you guys were right. She is either still in the fog or she just plain doesn't have feelings for me. Either way, she's not coming home under her conditions... Thanks for the support.

LWH don't be surprised that in the near future she calls you and again states that she wants to come back home with HER conditions. It is very typical of the WS to not want to give up on both the OP and the marriage, but continue to pressure the BS to accept her/his situation. Be resolute in your conditions and make her show you that she wants to come back for the right reasons which is to because she agrees to no contact with the OM forever and to follow a marital recovery plan. People tend to value and appreciate much more something that they've EARNED the hard way than when it is freely given to them. Make her EARN her right to come back home.

WW did call back. She says she will end contact, but will not go to couseling right now. She says she is not ready for that. She started getting to me, but I held my ground somewhat. I don't want her to be stuck with the OM, but I don't want her to come home under her conditions. I think I may suggest she find a cheap apartment and figure out what she really wants to do. I spoke with my sister and she says she doesn't think my wife is thinking straight. I agree. I'm up for any good suggestions.... I need good sound advice............

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lost-without-her:
<strong>WW did call back.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Played the WS script to the T ... good call by TMCM. I would suggest you to arrange her to stay with your sister for a months or two <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . This way she is away from OM while you are matching her words with her actions. You have to follow how A should ends to the T. She has to earn her way in by comitting to M. Conseling is a big part of this.

-rh-

She called again today. She says I must not want her to come back. She says I need to look in the mirror. Is this all just affair talk? Can I believe she is serious about coming back? I asked her if she still loved the OM. She wouldn't answer. I asked if she really wanted to work on our marriage. She just kept saying, I told you I would give up OM and we would see how things were. I want to believe her, but I don't think she is being honest with herself, much less me. If she still has feelings for the OM and none for me, then I am still left with nothing... Help, I don't want to fall under her pressure.... Thanks for the support...

Have you ever heard FOG SOUND ? this is it !.... don't entertain her. YOU DON'T HAVE TO SHOW HER ANYTHING SHE IS THE ONE WHO WALK OUT ON M NOT YOU. I copied TMCM's answer for WS ... :
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wife every day that you continue having contact with the OM, is one more day that more of my love for you DIES. Eventually all of my love for you will die and I will no longer have any desire to remain married to you. That is NOT an ultimatum but a statement of FACT. These 'talks' do nothing but speed up that loss of love. Please DO NOT contact me again.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hang up !. Do you have caller ID ? don't pick up the phone again from her and let the recording picks it up. I would suggest you to contact your sister as go between and let her stay with your sister rather than staying home.

She is your W ! She know how "weak" (sorry this is 2x4) you are. Normally you would mostly cave in sooner or later. Until you would convince her you mean bussiness she would keep trying. If you have not given her plan B letter, this is the perfect time.

-rh-

<small>[ August 17, 2003, 08:12 PM: Message edited by: redhat ]</small>

My wife has nowhere to go. We have no relatives that live close by. She can't afford to rent an apartment. That was her original plan when she left me. But the convenience of the OM having found a place made it easy for her to move in. I don't want her to live with the OM but I don't want to end up in a one way relationship. If she really wanted to she could probably find a one bedroom apt she could rent until she came off the fence and made a commitment to our marriage. Am I being selfish at this point? Am I making it worse by letting her stay with the OM? I'm going crazy thinking about this. Yesterday I was either ready to welcome her back or tell her to get a divorce. Today, I'm in the middle. My heart tells me two different things. I don't want to lose her, but if she doesn't feel anything for me, then I'm not losing much....

You know you are enabeling her if you take her home now. She has a choice of NC, work on M and go home ... but she choose A & OM. Nothing you could do. I like what you say ...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I don't want to lose her, but if she doesn't feel anything for me, then I'm not losing much....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeap, you are not loosing much. If you take her now, you are gurantee a heartache !. This is call "tough love". BTW: Have you give her plan B letter ? could you beg you sister to help you out to take her in ? This way she has more choices ?.

-rh-

Consider that the next time you talk to her you convey the following:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">'Wife what do I gain from taking you back if you are still in love with the OM and you do not want to commit to rebuilding our marriage? I am sorry but I do not want to be a husband only in name and that is precisely what I would be if you were to come back home right now. Contact me when you WANT to join me in rebuilding our marriage.'</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She may hate you for putting your foot down and not letting her have her cake but she'll also realize that you do not want to be a part of a sham marriage.

Oh and one more thing, your children are not well served either if you taker her back under her conditions because there is the strong possibility that she and the OM might patch things up and then she'll leave home once again.

You are all right, I'm an idiot! WW promised to never have contact with OM and get counseling. I told her that she would have to say these things in front of our kids because I knew she could lie to me but I didn't think she could lie to them. She told them and she came home on Thursday. She was depressed and wanted to call OM because she left him without saying goodbye. He wasn't home when she packed up and left. I told her she could write a letter and tell him she wanted to work on our marriage and not to contact her. She said she was going to write a letter but she didn't want me to read it. I said no. She wasn't happy. Anyway, Saturday rolls around and she went to work. She didn't get home when she was supposed to so I called her cell phone. It was turned off. So, I did the wrong thing. I asked my daughter to show me where the OM lived. I didn't know until then. I drove over there hoping I wouldn't find her there and that there was some other excuse for her lateness. Her car was there and I lost it. I knocked on the door and she answered. I told her not to come home except to get her things. I drove home very angry and I was wrong in doing this because my daughter was in the car with me. She was balling her eyes out and I was more angry than I have ever been in my whole life. When I got home I started throwing my wife's belongings on the front porch for her to take. She followed me home and told me to quit throwing her stuff around. This just made me angrier. I snapped. I have never yelled at my wife in 16 years of marriage. Yes, we have had some arguements, but I never yelled at her. I scared myself with the way I yelled at her. She yelled back at me, a thing she really had never done before either. Well, finally I calmed down some and she also. We apologized for getting that crazy, but she said she couldn't stay with me after that. She said that she went to the OM's house to tell him goodbye and she was wrong for not telling me. She understood why I got so angry. But through all of this she was still not going to work on our relationship. So, she is back with OM and I'm back at square 1. I did a lot of LBing in those few minutes I lost it. She may never be able to recover from this. She saw a side of me that neither of us had ever seen and it wasn't pretty. I hope I can one day show her the best side of me and maybe we can some day work through this. She is still planning on going to counseling and I hope it'll help her some. I know she can't get through this as long is she is with OM, but I don't know what else to do. I'm gonna take this one day at a time... I won't give up though and I told her that. I said I would remain faithful to her until we both decided we couldn't work through this anymore. I hope one day she will come back on board and we can really start the healing process....