your marriage didn't get where it is today from one bad experience and you're not going to fix everything that's wrong in one day, one week or one month.

having said that, understand that all you're guilty of is wanting to see immediate progress and as sad as it is to say, this process that you're involved in is not a sprint...it's a marathon. it takes growth and endurance to win this race.

if it were me, i would just back off on the relationship talk and certainly notr force any issues. just detach and seperate yourself from the mess emotionally.

getting on with your life doesn't mean that you need to legally seperate or initiate an immediate divorce. all it means is that you begin to concentrate on your personl growth and develop healthy interests outside the marriage. all of these things are intended to make you more attractive.

giving your WW all the rope she needs is your way of setting her free. but don't for goodness sake, push her away for the sake of your pride. let her see you! let her see how attractive you are and how much you're growing as a man and husband. let her observe your cool, your calmness and your command of the situation. more important let her compare the OM to you! just give it time...if you want to keep her that is.

coach

waid,

I would call SH to update him. I used to schedule my next appointment the following week since the situation moves sooo fast.

WS wants to be cake eater and your LB$ start going down ... I am worry.

Have WS notice your changes (plan A) at all ?.

-rh-

Coach,

I do want to keep my marriage, right now I understand it just can't happen. My WS is telling me that I'm not the one for her. She's even said that maybe I'm not really listening to her. The craziness of it all is that she's leaving me for a man that just got married 2 months ago. I see this thing as one big fantansy on her part, in her words, better to try and fail than haven't done anything at all.
I wish this was the same for our M.
I forced her hand because I wanted to push her aside and go on. It's as if really deep inside I want the D, because I know right now it wouldn't work. As if you couldn't tell I'm extremely impatient. I'm an hot blooded Italian with a temper that needs to be worked on.
The keyword that I use, from the concepts you mentioned is "friendship".
It really give me peace of mind over the whole situation. I want to be her friend, but right now it's too difficult. The legal seperation is for protection of eachothers future assets since she's leaving.
I'm going to hold back and let the dust settle.
My problem is that the people who love me and see me hurting want me to get rid of her as soon as possible to begin moving on. I respect them, but I must also listen to myself. I know some day I could be her friend, I just have to be in a position to be strong enough to get over the pain that she's caused. This is where your words of encouragent are important to me.

Thanks Again!
WAID

waid,
your post speaks volumes...and not just about yourself or your situation. your theme i would guess, is pretty universal among all of us here experiencing your problem.

the thing is that when experiencing an ordeal of this emotional magnitude, especially when it's new, fresh or a recent occurance, it's the absolute worst time for you to be making life changing decisions. that's why most would council delaying tactics. delay gives you time and time will give you the perspective you need to handle most situations.

by the way, i for one am not counciling you to stay in your marriage no matter what! others here may feel that way but i don't!

my feeling is that some relationships are just not meant to be and aknowledging this seems to be both rational and mature...but if you want the marriage...no matter what...then here is where you will find a method that may work for you. even more important...it's a method that will make your marriage stronger and better. and let's face it, that's no small thing!

coach

Coach,

I'm finding it easier to get my thoughta together.
As you probably see I do have my moments.
Your right, who know's what's going to happen to my marriage. It seems at times I'm more out of control than my WS. I'm not showing her all the turmoil, but I know she's experience the same.
I keep saying that I'm going forward, while my WS is going back. Your comments through out this forum show's me the steadiness I need.
I'm sure I'm over thinking this whole thing out.
I'm so tired of the thinking that the relief of her leaving may be beneficial to my recovery.
I will make my own decisions, now to work on my desperation.

WAID

<small>[ September 29, 2003, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: what am I doing ]</small>

Well my WS has finally given me a departure date within the next 2 weeks. She has the U haul and her mother is coming out to assist in her move.
Part of me want's to detach from the situation while part of me just want's to accept it and support her in her pursuit of happiness.
With time, I know I will heal. I feel that taking the high road in situation will allow me to move on with class as if she'll ever realize. I know the A is as strong as ever, I have no control over that. Seeing an X rated pay per view charge on my last cable bill and mobile phone bills that consist of 3 hour conversations just shows the addictive nature of the A. The selfishness is beyond comprehension. It's funny the pain stings at first but diminishes quicker than in the past.
I feel like a doormat, I still love her.
Confronting would just bring out more LB's, her accountability right now is nil.
I believe I'm just going to let it lie, is this a trait of Plan A????
The questions linger, why does someone do this to another individual.

Take Care!

WAID

Does OM's new bride know her M is already affected by infidelity?

She needs to know.

Pep

if she is in fact leaving than you have no need to confront either her or her activities. it's not like she is going to stop doing what she wants to do, simply to please you anyway.

if it were me i would plan A right to the bitter end. if for no other reason then to be on that all important high road that you're talking about.

as for loving her, don't confuse her with the woman that you married. that lady is long gone leaving behind this foggy little turnip who's conciousness is from another dimension, planet or solar system.

if it were me, i would go about the business of life as if she wasn't even there. i'd be respectful and as kind as i possibly could but i would go out of my way for her not one inch.

i would not initiate relationship discussions and i would make no complaints about her activities of actions. i wouldn't spy, ask personal questions or make demands. offer nothing accept what she requests of you. be busy and be happy (at least try to look that way).

who knows what can happen before that u-haul come to move her on to her "greener pastures?" with the appropriate behavioer you may become a facinating new man to her. who knows?

just stay strong and take care of yourself.
coach

Pep,
I haven't contacted the OM's spouse.
I do have a name. To contact her now may bring my WS and the OM closer together. I've read the benefits and downside of contacting the OP spouse. I feel like I'd rather not waste the time and energy, it will all come out.

Coach,

I'm a little confused, I know Plan A is about me.
Hopefully change will be apparent to the WS. I know this will take time. Does this mean detachment as you recommend or shall I try to be her friend.

WAID

plan is A stradegy...it's designed to brake up the affair and help you get into recovery. it's intended to do no more or no less. one might even say, if you want to keep your marriage together no matter what...then her's a way to do it.

doing a good plan A is problamatical however, because it requires such dicipline. during the process you must avoid LB and disrespectful judgements etc. and when your spouse is cheating in your face this ain't easy!

for me, it would have been impossible unless i could disconect myself emotionally from the situation.

i mean for me it got to be like i was standing outside myself watching this man (me) taking all this sh#t and still keeping my temper (world renown temper that is, LOL).

i wanted to cry, scream and break walls...but in a perverse kind of way, i also enjoyed the control...the control of being able to do the plan A and the power doing so gave me over the situation.

she got to the point where she just couldn't reach me...couldn't push those buttons that she had been pushing for years...i had control...OF ME...ME...!!!

she did what ever she wanted to do and i couldn't stop her. but she finally got tired of acting like a spoiled brat when she couldn't hurt me with it any more. it really hit home when she realized how much she had hurt herself. and when she realized what she had done...right out there in day light where all could see it...her family, my family, our friends, people that we all new! that's when she wanted to find a hole to crawl into it...the fog had cleared! yikes...REALITY!

and i was still there...not because i'm a saint but because that's where i still wanted to be... and she saw that finally...that i was still there! that i didn't run off on her and i didn't turn my back on her and that i didn't try to take her home and children away from her and that i still wanted her...and then she crumbled.

and would you believe, that seeing that was the worst of the whole thing for me...out of this whole horrible mess...to see her crumbled was the worst pain i experienced. to see my proud, beautiful, accomlished, brilliant wife crumble! that is a sadness i will never forget having in my life. to see her loss of pride in herself.

but this is about you and i still say be patient, be loving, be kind. be there to listen and not to argue. be there to help her change her mind...to support her because she's probably afraid to do it on her own.

yes you must be firm in your resolve, yes there must be ground rules...but first she has to decide that she wants to stay...and helping her to make this decision is your job to do...until she's finally gone.

just my opinion.
coach

WOW!

I wish I was only as strong as you.
As you can see I'm finding it difficult to keep my stregnth up to the challenge.
The WS came over on Sat. and we walked around the house placing post its on what she wanted to take with her. The whole situation was agonizing, she saw the pain I was under. I took it like a man, but at times was at the brink of tears. I wasn't strong enough to act like nothing was happening. She gave me a date of 10/19 of her move. When she was ready to go, I asked her how are we supposed to say goodbye. She said she didn't know. I told her that I supported her in her pursuit of happiness and that this comes from the love I have for her. I may move her items into the garage for my own sake, it's difficult living with post its all over the place.
I don't want to, but I have to serve her this week with the seperation papers, unfortunately it must be done before she leaves. When I advised her of this, all she said if this is what I want. It pissed me off, because I have to file to protect myself, while she's the one that's leaving.
I've realized if I show any emotion or if I LB, all it would ease her guilt.

Hanging in there!

WAID

One week to WS's departure.
I've kept my distance as far as emotions and seeing her.
She continues to call daily just to chat.
Today she stated that she'd like to meet on Sat.
morning to take care of some issues and maybe an afternoon at the zoo. ( I wish I could cage her up when I'm there). She also stated that beggining tonight she'd have to find a place to stay until she departs.
Here goes the game playing.
Recommendation please!
I don't feel like I should
have to offer her a roof, she may not even ask.
I've remained to my plan A, joined a Gym, house projects, meeting with friends etc...
I realize things take time and can't be fixed overnight. The fog she's in is so dense, I beggining to laugh whenever I talk to her.
Do I reach out before her departure or protect myself and detach. By reading my previous post, you can tell I'm struggling with this issue.

WAID

WAID,
you are turly at a cross roads. and i know things are horrible but the truth really is that your W is playing silly romantic games. if you look at this thing objectively it's high school stuff.

i think she really would like to stay but her pride won't let you convince her! how's that? it's like she's decided to punish you and her for her stupidity & childishness! so if she needs a place to stay, let her stay! just recognize this as one more ploy on her part to get the affirmation she needs of your continued love.

keep being cool and in contol. be there for her! listen to her. just listen with out making any demands at all! if you think that because she's moving out that she's through with you then brother you better get a keeper because she isn't about to let you go just yet!

if it were me, i would become them most sensative male on earth...loving caring and her best confident!

i would learn to be mysterious and facinating...referencing new friends to her in of hand ways during conversation...talking about "cool" new activities that i'm into...places that i'm going!

look, if she wants high school games, give her high school games....at least until her foogy little brain clears...plenty of time when that happens for mature reality and hard marriage work. for now you just need to win her back to you.

stay the course and be strong!

coach

Coach,

Followed your strategy. I need some feedback on the results.
WS never asked for a place to stay until her departure. This was a relief, I think she knew better. So I didn't have to come to the crossroads on that one.
I was cool and relaxed about the whole situation.
She was blown away that I was late to our meeting due to my first Yoga class. We shared a laughed about this, she got a kick out of the fact that I'm doing different things.
I tried as much to be a confidant, and reitereated my support for her. It kept running through my head that this women has tortured me and here I'm laughing with her. Feelings weren't shared as often as in prior conversations. I didn't try to persuade from her departure, I just said that no ones's making her leave. I don't know if this was right. I was a little uneasy regarding the outcome of our meeting. It seemed like my I was actually doing Plan A, no LB's just trying to establish some EN's. It felt weird because our conversation was more like friends and not lovers. It was a good, but felt like I was settling for what she had to offer. Reality was present, it felt like I was the one who had to deal with it and not her. Maybe she's already out of the fog and realized that she's caused too much damage to me and all the friends she's leaving. The legal seperation was served today, she called and kiddingly stated that at least I didn't mark the emotionaly unstable box as a reason for filing.
I just told her again, you don't have to go.
What do you think.

WAID

We'll tonight maybe our last meeting.
The WS said it would be up to me if we should meet. She stated that it may be too difficult.
I'm having my reservations, but want to meet.
I asked during our morning phone conversation if this is what she really wanted. Of course no response. I guess her actions are speaking louder than words.
She then came back and said, she needed to be true to herself and by leaving she would be.

I will continue with my plan A, I never thought she would carry on with the move. It's like she's penalizing me for her mistakes. I will strong if we meet, but what do I come back with when she states that she needs to be true to herself.

WAID

WAID

what i'm about to say will seem crazy but here goes...

don't take what she's doing personally! i would bet almost anything that it's all about her right now...to her, you're just a bit player in this little soap operah. that's why she can be so cavalier.

and get this...just because she's moving out it doesn't mean that anything is over. a second bet of mine would be that she still has plans for your sorry butt, LOL she just hasn't come to that conclusion yet...oh but she will!

look, the current way you're responding to her sounds perfect. just don't keep pushing the "please stay button" on your recorder. remember she is in control of what she intends to do...the only control you have is over how you behave and react...so be sure to remain up beat and posative.

the idea is for you to be attractive in her memory and conciousness. when she doesn't have you present to help meet her ENs or her practicle needs as well, then i suspect some of the fog will begin to clear. just stay busy and posative in your approach.

let me remind you again...this is not a sprint! this is marathon! staying the course is not for the faint of heart so grow from the experience and become a stronger and better person. don't let this thing beat you!

coach

M- 4 years
BS 39
WS 34
No Children
D-day 7/31/03
EA/PA

I’ve never before experienced a period like this in my life. Events with the departure of my WS days before the evacuation caused by the Cedar fire here in San Diego have not given me the time to visit this forum. God bless my neighborhood was spared. Unfortunately I know of 5 families that lost their homes to the devastation. No words can explain the expression on someone’s face as they see all of there personal belonging disappear. In a weird way it’s assisted me in dealing with the departure of my WS back to the Mid West.

The following is the letter my WS left me, all feedback would be appreciated.

BS,

I know that it’s so unbelievable for you-the way this has gone. For me too in many ways. I’m truly sorry that I’ve hurt you so badly. But I know you’ve found strength that you didn’t know you had. I can see it in you and hear it in your voice, in a way it was never there before. I’m sorry that this is what has taken for you to find it but I’m glad you have. I think that you’re close to finding your center, your sense of inner self and that when you find it you’ll be complete. You don’t need to look to another for person for that. I don’t know if I’m even making any sense….

Thank you for (trying) being so understanding. I know that this has been/will be hard for you and me. I hope that we can stay in touch in some form. I leave it up to you. I’d hate to loose you completely. And I know that you can’t see it, or maybe even believe it, but you’ll always have a place in my heart. I have many regrets about how I handled things, but marrying you was not one of them. Nor do I think of this, of us, as a waste of time.
My life is better because of you. I’ll always think that way of you, regardless of how you feel about me and my actions.

Love,
WS

My reactions was at first of anger, sorrow and some what relief. She did contact me regarding the impact of the fires. After all of this I will continue with my Plan A,
But now I will have to reach out. Obviously some of my Plan A tactics have been noticed by her, During this whole ordeal, I’ve had to initiate everything, as you can see she’s left future contact up to me. Her statement on me finding my center, to me, is her form of projection Again, let me know your thoughts, good or bad.

WAID

Her letter to you is as screwed up as she is. She is in La-La land. The OM has told you that she did to him what she is doing to you. That should tell you something about her character. You have no kids and can easily move on. IMO it would be healthier for you to do do.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by what am I doing:
<strong>During this whole ordeal, I’ve had to initiate everything, as you can see she’s left future contact up to me. Her statement on me finding my center, to me, is her form of projection Again, let me know your thoughts, good or bad.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What do you want to do ?

-rh-

RH,
Your question is a good one!
I want to get my wife back, but I wan't the person I married. Not the person she's become.
I realize I may never get that person back, but to at least have a chance of finding eachother in an M is what guess I really want.
The MC that I currently see on my own, inquires to me, why would I want to be around a person who's actions are that of my WS. I sometime have to agree, but I also state the WS of today is not the person I married.
The problem is the pain of the ordeal continues to drag me down. Like most people on this sight, some days are good, some are tough. I've developed a Plan A, but without her here it's more difficult, so I've put the work into myself. You mentioned in an earlier response the need for me to reach out. Letting go seems so much easier, but I feel like she never gave me a chance. The few times I have reached out, you can tell the conversation is painfull for both of us. The WS wants a friend rather than a Husband. I know a spouse is a friend but as we all know a M is more than just friends. When I stand up for myself (no LB's), she shuts down, no response, just dead air on the phone. We talked this week and she stated that she missed me. Then she emailed me within minutes and explained it was good to hear my voice but the conversation was weird and unconfortable. She stated it would get easier to talk with the passage of time. She then wrote how sorry she was for hurting me so badly.
I don't feel like a Plan B is the answer, no kids and already 2,500 miles apart.


Thanks,
WAID

<small>[ November 10, 2003, 02:52 PM: Message edited by: what am I doing ]</small>