I have a question...

Ive seen here that many Ws insist on NC with OW after DDay. This is often times in the form of a letter. The W should be able to read the letter, if im correct.

Can you explain to me the purpose of this? Why the BS feels the need to require this of the WS rather than allowing him to do this on his own free will.

BTW... ill state up front, that yes, i was an OW. 7 yr R, 3 of which he was M'd. (long story, ill spare unless specifically requested to share it). We had dday about 6 months ago or so (a little less actually), are still in casual contact (he moved right before Dday so we dont see each other). His W insisted he write me an email, cc her, and deny any feelings for me, that we were ever anythign more than friends, and to state that he never wanted anything more to do with me. He called me in secret to tell me she wanted to do this, and to ignore it that he didnt mean it if she made him send it. She stated that she hoped that the email would spur an angry response (angry from being rejected) if i was in fact involved with him, and so not only was the letter to end all contact with me but also to prove if there ever was anything.

Thats just my situation. I dont know if this is what you recommend here specifically though.

Anyone????
(i posted this on Just Found out, but thought this might be more appropriate, evne though i see there is a NC thread goign on here already).

Can you explain the purpose of this?

"i was an OW" .... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Someone who disregards her own female dignity and de-values her worth as a woman for 7 years, now asks: "What is the purpose of this?"

The purpose is MARRIAGE.

I am sorry you don't understand "marriage". I am sorry you have so little understanding of your own human value .... and you gave yourself up as a MARRIED man's tasty sexual pleasure .... on the side. It must hurt YOU very much, if you ever stop to think about what you've done to yourself..

Instead, you spend your time defending your 7 year folly, and you spend your valuable time questioning MM's wife's actions.

You could be building your own life, instead of (still) borrowing a piece of hers. Sad. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Take care.

Pep

The purpose of the letter? From the H's side, it's called cake eating. He's agreed not to contact you in order to keep his wife. From her side, it's called trying to save her marriage. The marriage cannot recover until he stops contact with you.

Here's the lesson. The H is being a scumbag. Doesn't want to choose one of you and is doing whatever he can to keep both.

He seems to have enjoyed seven years of his own "free will" and look where that has gotten the wife. Are you really insane enough to wonder why she wants him to stop contacting you?

Well... i just lost my reply! So ill have to post again.

First of all, just for the record, xMM never sent the letter she requested. He explained that as a friend he refused to write anything mean or harsh (supposedly), and that he would just end contact on his own, but not through a simple letter. Now, he may have just simply convinced her to change her mind about needing that. I dont really know as im not there.

Second, for the record... while weve been together, hes only been married to her 3 yrs. They only knew each other for a couple of months before getting married and they got m'd when she discovered she was pg. At the time i was in an a bad r and trying to get out. We were seeing each other but not on a sexual level. Prior to my R we had dated exclusively... so its a sticky situation, but probably totally irrelevant. Either way, she knew of our involvement when she got involved with him and got pregnant by him.

Again, irrelevant im sure.

That said... i did not come here flaming, and i expect the same courtesy. I havent done anything to anyone. My curiosity about the needs for the NC letter (im not questioning NC itself just the letter and the process and the way it is requested), and the preaching on the institution and value of M has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Yes our situation was less than ideal, but so wasnt the circumstances under which they got M'd. Another reason why i dont need a lesson on the value of M. I understand it quite well. Maybe all too well.

For you to assume i dont understand marraige or human value is a pretty far leap. I dont have questions about why my MMs W sent the letter, i know the reasons, and have heard the reasoning behind it from her own mouth. The NC letters that are encouraged here dont appear to be the same.

But, my question really lies more in why its pushed for. If the H wont do it on his own free will, then that speaks volumes. Sort of like the SG im seeing now - if i have to ask for flowers, its pretty meaningless when i do receive them.

That said, id really like some insight into why a NC letter is insisted on if the H isnt willing to do it on his own without the W requesting it.

Pepper..

I think your response was harsh. Rain came here asking a legitimate question. Quite nicely, actually. She didn't flame or insult anyone. And your response is to tell her that she has de-valued herself and call her a "tasty sexual pleasure" for seven years? When actually I believe she said, she was only involved with the MM for 3 years.. he was a SG for the first 4.

I am not condoning her A. But, I don't think it was necessary to insult her. If you didn't want to answer the question, you could have simply refrained from posting.

That said.. I, too, don't understand the point of an NC Letter, when it is obviously forced by the BS. What is the point if the WS has no intention of following it?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think your response was harsh. Rain came here asking a legitimate question. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are you sure baby? Check out the number of posts pep has....or mine....perhaps we have a little bit more experience with the TOW board than you do. Ever been there? There are some interesting discussions going on over there right now about this question and this board.

<small>[ September 21, 2003, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

Yes there is a thread there asking that question. Posted originally by a BS.

In fact, i can make a pretty safe assumption that the BS that posted it also posts here.

Rain..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Rain:
<strong>I have a question...

Ive seen here that many Ws insist on NC with OW after DDay. This is often times in the form of a letter. The W should be able to read the letter, if im correct.

Can you explain to me the purpose of this? Why the BS feels the need to require this of the WS rather than allowing him to do this on his own free will.

BTW... ill state up front, that yes, i was an OW. 7 yr R, 3 of which he was M'd. (long story, ill spare unless specifically requested to share it). We had dday about 6 months ago or so (a little less actually), are still in casual contact (he moved right before Dday so we dont see each other). His W insisted he write me an email, cc her, and deny any feelings for me, that we were ever anythign more than friends, and to state that he never wanted anything more to do with me. He called me in secret to tell me she wanted to do this, and to ignore it that he didnt mean it if she made him send it. She stated that she hoped that the email would spur an angry response (angry from being rejected) if i was in fact involved with him, and so not only was the letter to end all contact with me but also to prove if there ever was anything.

Thats just my situation. I dont know if this is what you recommend here specifically though.

Anyone????
(i posted this on Just Found out, but thought this might be more appropriate, evne though i see there is a NC thread goign on here already).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Rain,
When my own husband cheated, I never insisted on a NC letter. What purpose does that serve if it is not something that is done willingly...and by that I mean offered willingly.
Demands at the point of a DDay are useless in my opinion. If the marriage can be restored, great if that is what both parties want, but it can only happen if both parties are willing to act on those desires.
I've read some of the other replies, and I'm sorry that some chose to act out in their responses.
Regards,
Sandi

I agree rain.....she probably does. Did I not answer your question, or John39 (on JFO) or kam over on TOW?

Your follow up about why force a WS who does not want to send the letter to do so....is for the same reason. The formality of sending the letter may help a BS to make the formal commitment to actually end the affair and keep NC. Sometimes the OP will also honor a written request better. Dr. H seems to think so....and developed the plans here over 20 years of trial and error in MCing. The NC letter gets the best results....even if it is far from perfect in establishing no contact. We use it...because it has proven to give the best results....and yes...even when the BS isn't sincere in his wish to end contact.

Now please don't go back and tell the folks over on TOW how ugly you were treated here.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I was made VERY clear i was NOT welcome there. I was made VERY clear that i was an immoral worthless human being. That i had no self worth and no self value and that i did NOT respect the value of M nor did i understand any of it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did make it clear you weren't welcome on the JFO board where folks were hurting so deeply....but I never implied anything about you personally. I said you were ignoring the pain of others by posting there, and encouraging discord on YOUR board....which is not judgemental or untrue.

You talk about how accepting and wonderful the folks over there are, but I must tell you....I don't see that and I respectfully disagree. The obscenity and personal attacks on that board is overwhelming....even between OW and OW.

Star...

Just because I don't post as often as you and Pep.. doesn't mean that I don't read here, practically every day for well over a year. This place has been a God-send for me. Altho I may not agree with all of Harley's principles, H and I do incorporate alot of them into our recovery, and have discussed them with our MC. We have printed out the questionnaires, and completed them. They have helped us alot. The main reason I quit posting here all the time, was because I would get flamed if I disagreed with any of the principles. So now I read, take what I want, and use those principles that do work for H and I. All is not always black and white. What works for some, may not work for others.

That said, I also read and post at TOW as well. And I don't believe that Rain's intentions were meant to be malicious.

That is my opinion.

Sandi,

Your main site is the TOW board as well. Compared to the lashings people get over there....which are too obscene to even be pasted here....I thought rain's request was answered quite respectfully.....we just didn't agree that her interest was sincere.

star, i was referring to peppers post... and to another one on JFO. I realize that JFO (all too late) was not the appropriate place to post my first post especially asking a question of that nature. Which is why i moved it and later apologized.

But i guess youre take on it is its the formality of it all. I guess that works for you, which is fine. Ill just say that its not something that would work for me personally, which is probably why i dont understand how it can be of benefit if the BS isnt sincere in his efforts. Whatever works, i suppose.

Star, do you think my intentions are malicious, is that the problem?

Rain...

Sandi, thanks for the response <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by star*fish:
<strong>Sandi,

Your main site is the TOW board as well. Compared to the lashings people get over there....which are too obscene to even be pasted here....I thought rain's request was answered quite respectfully.....we just didn't agree that her interest was sincere.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry, but my "main" site is NOT TOW or this board, although I have read here for almost 3 years now, posted a total of 8 times here and maybe 5 times on TOW. My "main site" is a board on AOL that I have posted on for the last almost 6 years. I'm not disrespectful, nor do I abide others that are. No one here is able to discern what Rain's intent was when she asked the question other than Rain. I don't see where she was malicious, or hurtful in her question. It is the internet, and unfortunately, tone and inflection is not perceivable.
Some of the responses that she got were lashing out at her, and in my perception one in particular was degrading.
But I'm still reading.

rain,

I spent a great deal of time reading on the TOW site....particularly your posts....because I wanted to see IF there was a chance you were sincere....I am a fair person and didn't want to ignore an honest request. What you have to say about how you view the folks here and about the site discourages me from believing that you are.....so yes, I question your sincerity.

Sandi, would you mind sending me a link to the board that you read/post on? Im always interested in reading at other places <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Rain...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sandi520:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by star*fish:
<strong>Sandi,

Your main site is the TOW board as well. Compared to the lashings people get over there....which are too obscene to even be pasted here....I thought rain's request was answered quite respectfully.....we just didn't agree that her interest was sincere.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry, but my "main" site is NOT TOW or this board, although I have read here for almost 3 years now, posted a total of 8 times here and maybe 5 times on TOW. My "main site" is a board on AOL that I have posted on for the last almost 6 years. I'm not disrespectful, nor do I abide others that are. No one here is able to discern what Rain's intent was when she asked the question other than Rain. I don't see where she was malicious, or hurtful in her question. It is the internet, and unfortunately, tone and inflection is not perceivable.
Some of the responses that she got were lashing out at her, and in my perception one in particular was degrading.
But I'm still reading.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just needed to clarify......I registered in 2002 but have been reading here since late 1999. Oh, and I also updated my profile since it was also out of date. Our marriage has been back on track for 6 years come December.

star - ive posted very little in reference to MB because i read here rarely and know of it mostly only through other BSs.

So, i dont see where you would get that. I have said some things in jest about MB yes, but only in reference to things that you guys have said yourself is against normal Harley policy.

(Like the BS writing the NC letter, etc). And i have read up on some things - plan a ( only a little). And ill be the first to tell you that the principle itself (working on yourself for yourself) isnt a bad concept, but most of the posts ive read have not been in line with what appears to be the original intention of plan a. But id rather not get into that.

So, either way, my point is, i rarely mention MB on TOW.

Rain...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Rain:
<strong>Sandi, would you mind sending me a link to the board that you read/post on? Im always interested in reading at other places <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Rain...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sure thing Rain.....you can email me at mrspust123@aol.com if you'd like....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Rain:
<strong>Sandi, would you mind sending me a link to the board that you read/post on? Im always interested in reading at other places <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Rain...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I tried to PM you but can't...so you'll have to email me.

Sandi... email sent.

Thanks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Rain...