Okay, so it's not brief. Guess I have a problems with that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Sue,

I was talking about your husband when I said unwllling.....not you.

And about exposure....part of the strategy is to enlist the help of friends and family before he moves out. If his boss and wife are influential people in his life, people he respects, perhaps they could have impacted this situation in a positive way.

you said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> they can't do much together lest someone see them. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This tells me that the opinions of others has an impact on his actions, and that exposure may have helped end this affair.

Plan A is very difficult, are you taking anti-depressants? Dr. H recommends them so that this </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> There are days when it's hard to get out of bed. I've been doing the bare minimum around the house and haven't helped the children with homework at all. Did they take a bath in the last five days? I don't know.....

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">won't happen. The idea is for the marriage to be an attractive alternative to the affair in Plan A, and that's really difficult if you are depressed. I understand how hard this is on you, but unless you can meet needs and stop LBs....you haven't done a Plan A.

So contrary to what JL is assuming....I think Plan B is premature because you really haven't been able to do a good Plan A. I'm not criticizing you....this is a painful experience and it's hard to do the things required to turn this around and interest your husband in the marriage again.....but I'd like to see you take a trip to the doctor....follow through with the all the elements of Plan A and try that plan first before moving to B. Without that....Plan B has less chance to be effective.

Have tried to fill the needs he'll let you? Have you stopped LBs? Have you confronted him with your feelings about how the affair is affecting you? And please consider exposing the affair to people who have influence with your husband and enlisting their help. Have you spoken to this lady's husband? These are the things that are going to have the best chance of ending the affair.

When you are ready for Plan B....minimal contact is so incredibly counterproductive that you must be ready to have no contact at all....or don't go to B. Your husband has got to see you at your best....or don't go to B. You don't want his last impression of you to be a depressed person who can't get out of bed....instead he needs to see you as the wonderful spouse you have been for him. Please read the threads in JFO about how contact during Plan B makes the plan ineffective. Wantmywifeback's thread in particular would be good.

Sue, I'm sorry if any of this has been confusing for you....but I think that it's important for you to realize that it's impossible to use these concepts in a slap dash fashion and expect to get results. Depression is a natural side effect of these horrible times...but it will undermine your Plan A in a big way. You will need all your strength and wits about you to get your husband back....and those kids need you (and baths LOL).

I am encouraged that you have managed to keep your sense of humor throughout this. I don't know what you mean about your writing being a problem....it seems just fine to me.

Good luck and blessings.

star*fish, when I reread your post, I see that were talking about my H not being willing to give this M a chance. I actually DO think he is willing to give it a chance or he would have been gone already. He says he still loves me, he just isn't sure he is IN love with me ... yada yada yada. He doesn't want to see me hurting and has said he is sorry for that. They haven't seen much of each other lately. I think he's still trying to break free of addiction.

You make such total sense on Plan A and Plan B! I am on Paxil and that has helped immensely!! Guess my post sounded worse than it really is. I do the bare minimum, but the house is pretty clean and the kids get to school, get hugs and love, the dog gets fed and gets outside.

But I haven't been up at school like I usually am. (Kids from school would ask my kids if I worked there because I was there so much.) I spend all the time that I would have been at school reading this site and books. The other thing I have cut way back on is seeing friends. I know, I know, that is something I need to get back into. The problem was that I had lost 25 pounds and looked like a bag of bones (my H was going to take me to the doctor himself if I didn't start eating again). My friends were noticing and I felt conspicuous. They know that I am having problems and have discussed it with my BF. She hasn't told them what is going on ... they just surmised on their own, the same way that I would have done if it had been one of them.

We also have just finished (almost) a remodel of our kitchen which was totally gutted, new windows, etc. in our house. It has been torn up since July. Cooking in the basement, no doors on the bedrooms or bathrooms for two weeks. Stress to the max! So, now that that is done, on with my life.

I have been trying to meet his needs. The more conversation we have about nothing stuff (no kids or house stuff), the more I see him relaxing with me. He also needs admiration, so I'm making sure to do that, too. He has lost lots of weight and has a new wardrobe which he looks VERY hot in and I make sure to compliment him. Also he works very hard and earns a great living. I tell him how much I appreciate that. He has always been a wine lover and I was a beer lover. We went to Napa Valley in January and since then, wahla, I'm a wine lover, too. It's nice to enjoy a bottle together.

Enlisting the help of friends, coworkers, relatives to expose the A. I'm getting closer to doing that. Knowing that my BF knows what is going on has helped him, I think. He respects her. Have been considering telling my parents and possibly his parents. I think both sets of them have started to wonder what's going on. They see that I'm not my usual self. They don't live close to us so they don't see us often. Both noticed that I lost weight. I am pondering this and am seriously thinking of telling soon. I'm praying God will give me the strength to do this.

You're absolutely right about Plan B. It has gotten through my thick head. No contact means no contact! When/if I get to Plan B, I will need to pray for strength for that. It's always been my downfall. When dating oh so many years ago, it was hard for me to wait for the guy to call. I always wanted to call them.

So, in short <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> on with my life! I can do this! I can do this! I'm sooo thankful that I have found this board!!!

Sue,

Let me give you a couple of reasons why exposure is best done in Plan A...not to push you, but just to help you understand how and why it works. Part the reason affairs grow in secrecy is because the people involved know that it will not be sanctioned by others. The longer it remains in secrecy....the stronger it becomes. Exposure ends that. It opens the affair to scrutiny and criticism from the people around them. It injects conflict into the relationship....because instead of the mushy gushy lovey convos of the past....the things they have to talk about are instead the reaction they are getting from others. It's embarrassing for them and it helps them see past the fog and begin to understand the destructiveness of their actions. So exposure is best in Plan A....because the sooner the better. Another good reason is that while you are meeting needs and not LBing....you have a chance to counteract the negativeness of affairs with the kindness you show to your spouse. And finally, it's the perception that the WS has of the exposure. Once you move to Plan B....exposure appears vindictive....like "if I can't have you, no one can". While you are actively working on the marriage in Plan A....it appears like what it's supposed to be...and effort to end the affair. When the spouse moves out....it seems like a way simply to get back at them.

I know it's a scary thing to do....but I hope I've explained why delaying this step can be harmful. Many people can't get the courage to do this until their spouse actually leaves them....and that is not the best time to do it...because too often it is done out of anger and resentment instead of a desire to save the marriage. Intent...is an important element for this step. If it is obvious that your intent is to get help and support for the marriage...it makes forgiving the exposure very easy. You'd be surprised at how quickly it actually is forgiven, because it forces reality into foggy fantasyland. Good Luck.

Sue, I'm cutting and pasting this from JFO. Cerri posted this there a day or so ago and I think it may help you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> A while ago someone directed a post to me asking for help to find the courage to expose or confront. It was last week I think and while we were running back and forth with every imaginable appointment possible.

I've been giving that question a lot of thought and as I always do, tying it to what is going on in my life right now. I looked for the thread, I wanted to reply there, but I couldn't find it - so this is the reply. It is generic to the topic and I hope you all give it some thought.

The things you need to do in order to say you've done a good Plan A are pretty scary. Not the meeting needs part - everyone jumps on that, gets that part. But as I've written about over and over again, Plan A is far more than being Mr. Nice Guy. (or Ms. Nice Guy )

Plan A is a strategy to end the affair. And as such there are steps you need to take to rock the affair boat, create conflict in that relationship and expose it to the scrutiny and disapproval of the people closest to the straying spouse.

I'm not going to go into the reasons for those things, you've all seen me write about them over and over. What I do want to talk about is how do you bring yourself to do things which are so out of your everyday experience and so very very frightening?

Lets look at another situation if you don't mind. What if you found out through some chance of fate that you or your mate or your child had some life-threatening or lifestyle threatening illness?

And what if this illness required things like painful tests, experimental procedures, treatment with drugs that had possible significant side effects? What if you had to battle with your insurance company, or goddess forbid - what if you had no insurance? What if you had to sit by your child's side in a hospital bed after surgery and explain to them that they were not going to come home for a while? What if - terrible thought - you had done something to bring this illness on?

Do you forgo treatment because it's scary? Do you pass on the tests because they hurt? Do you skip surgery because it hurts and it's inconvenient? (who would take the kids to daycare and walk the dog??) Do you opt out of follow up care because you don't want anyone to know? Do you just try to eat more veggies, lay off the soda and pretend that doing so will make it go away?

In other words, do you run from the reality and the things that need to be done because you are afraid of the pain and the upset?

Of course you don't. Because you know that your kids need mom and dad there for them, strong, healthy and alive. You know that if you or your spouse or your child is ill you will go to the ends of the earth to make sure you do everything you can to protect the future of your family, the security of your home and stability of your kids lives.

And you know that there are times when ensuring that kind of protection means that you have to do things that rock the foundations of your everyday existence. You need to face the illness head on, find the treatment, battle the HMO's and DO WHAT IT TAKES. Your kids are depending on you.

Well let me tell you - infidelity is a disease. It's an addiction. An illness.

And, let me give you some stats.

Infidelity affects anywhere from 60-80% of marriages in the US. It is an epidemic fed by the media and the glamorization of celebrities such as Julia Roberts.

Right now approx 47& of first marriages in the US end in divorce. Approx 80% of second and subsequent marriages fail. Divorce is not the answer - If you think that you will have a better chance of success with a new partner - you are wrong.

Studies show that five years after interviewing couples who are very unhappy in their marriages - the by a large margin - ones who remained married are much happier and the ones who are divorced are much the same. (Study Review Link)

"Children living with a single parent or adult report a higher prevalence
of activity limitation and higher rates of disability. They are also
more likely to be in fair or poor health and more likely to have been
hospitalized (National Center for Health Statistics, 1997).

Children of divorced families are nearly twice as likely to drop out of high school.

They are approx 33% more likely to be out of school and out of work.

More than twice as likely to be unwed mothers during their teenage years.
-----
health vulnerability scores from 20% to 35% higher than those for children living with both biological parents.

* ...predicted risk of injury was about 20% to 30% greater for children from disrupted marriages than for other children.

* Children living with formerly married mothers had a 50% greater risk of having asthma in the preceding 12 months.

* ...an increased risk of speech defects among children living with never-married mothers.

* ...the observed proportion reported to have received professional help for emotional or behavior problems in the preceding year varied from 2.7% for children living with both biological parents to 8.8% for children living with formerly married mothers. For children living with never-married mothers or with mothers and stepfathers, the respective proportions were 4.4% and 6.6%.

Deborah A. Dawson, "Family Structure and Children's Health and Well-Being: Data from the 1988 National Heath Interview Survey
~~~~~~~

Are you getting the picture? Divorce is a major health and lifestyle threat to the future success and happiness of your children.

I cannot guarantee that if you do the things needed to end the affair that your marriage will be saved. But I can guarantee with 100% surety that as long as the affair goes on and there is contact with the affair partner, there is no hope for restoring your marriage. It cannot happen until the affair ends.

The longer the affair continues, the more likely it will lead to the destruction of your marriage. And that will in turn set into motion all those things I point out above.

And at some point you become a threat to the marriage as your love bank dwindles and you need to be in Plan B to protect those feelings and your willingness to save the marriage.

Your kids may go on to lead fulfilling lives after divorce - as humans we are incredibly powerful and resilient beings - but their efforts to get to that place will be hampered by the effects of divorce. The evidence is irrefutable.

Now, you want to tell me that you can't call the OP's spouse and expose, you can't confront your mate or the OP and you can't tell anyone because you are afraid of what might happen? The alternative is risking the health and wellbeing of your children are you willing to do that because of a little fear?

I don't think so. I think as parents each and every one of us would jump through flames to make our kids safe and secure. This is no different, your kids' future depends on you. Do the right thing.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Starfish,

I am not sure what is going on here. So let me set YOU straight on a few things.

1. I believe firmly that disclosure is the best way to go. I have never said differently. I was just not willing to bust Suebee's chops on that point, because they are planning on separating and disclosure was going to come, in fact it had.

2. I did not say she should be in plan B. I said I suspected she might well be there soon. In my haste I am not sure I told her to prepare for it. But, that was the point.

Finally, you said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So contrary to what JL is assuming....I think Plan B is premature because you really haven't been able to do a good Plan A.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not assuming anything, and frankly doing a good plan A is crucial as all here would agree, but My statemenst about plan B stand, and they are exactly what Harley has said and in fact what Cerri says.

Suebee, I apologize that your straight forward request has taken this turn. In order for you to get coherent advice without what apppears to me people jumping to conclusions. I will leave you to Starfish and Takola. Your life is complex enough without what in my mind seems like strange wrangling about who believes what.

I wish you the best of luck, I am sure the ladies here will give you good advice.

God Bless,

JL

JL...This is a huge misunderstanding. I apologize for not communicating clearly. When I said "contrary to what you think" I meant that you thought I didn't agree with you and I do.

Suebee.....Sorry your thread has gotten off track.

<small>[ November 04, 2003, 06:50 AM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>