Hi FeelingIt,

Don't you think that your son is a little too young at six years old, to be around your H's OW and being exposed to their sleaze? It must be very confusing for him to have to go and see his dad in his new home with this OW present, when all this little guy has ever known all of his life, is ONE family unit and HIS family unit, that consists of his dad, mom (you) and his big sister. Your H sounds like mine in that he wanted to shove the OW down our daughters throat as quickly as possible after he left. It is being insensitive toward our childrens feelings and also insensitive toward our feelings.

My H carted our daughter, eight years old, back and forth to OW's in the first six months after he left, then I put a stop to it when I was informed that not only was this probably being very damaging to our daughter (being exposed to their sleaze), but that I was also nothing more than ENABLING my H's affair, in continuing to let him *cake eat* and have the best of both worlds.
When they leave, they forfeit their rights to say what they want and what they feel is best for their kids. They forfeit their rights to take their kids whenever and wherever they choose!

I think you ought to be setting boundaries and let your H know what is acceptable to you and what is not and having your S & D around the OW so soon after your break up, should be a NO NO!!!

Hi Lianne37

I have taken steps to get H to respect my wishes for the children to have minimum contact with the OW as I said it is difficult as they live together and S stays overnight. I guess if H does not respect my wishes then the overnights will have to stop. H is having a whirlwind relationship, been seeing her 3 weeks and then moved in together, I guess I am waiting for her to become pregnant even though H mainatains he doesn't want anymore children (or was that with me) At least H is keeping his distance, NC has been made between us for the past 4 weeks now apart from email regarding access for the children. I don't get how fathers just accept things and make no effort to patch things between themselves and their children. My D has not seen her dad for four weeks now apart from 5 mins here and there when he has picked up S. H has not made an effort to phone continuously to both children. How can they just block out this part of their life.

I too cannot understand why/how you can be so in love one minute and not the next. I sometimes wonder if things would have been different if I had found this site before chucking him out and then I could have followed PlanA but this must be hard for anyone to do without LB all the time. I just I hope to get to tell him to get lost if his relationship with OW fails. Nothing wiould give me pleasure so much as to have a chance to hurt him as much as he has me (and of course know it) God I sound like a bitter and twisted person and I don't feel like one. Day by day things are getting easier. Anyway best go as I am going on a bit now. Have a good day both of you.

FeelingIt, There is nothing bitter and twisted about wanting to see your H's affair with his homewrecking OW go sour. They shouldn't expect to be wished any luck, particularly by us, the left behind and cheated upon spouse and to feel the way you do is a natural human reaction. I don't wish my H and his OW any luck either and I never will. I'm a great believer in what comes around, goes around. I've seen and heard of people being paid back in mysterious ways for what they did wrong so many times to not be a believer in it!!

I think you are allowing your H to have it all ways, I really do. Not only is he taking his son around OW, but your son is staying overnight?????
You are making it all too easy for him to continue on in his sordid lifestyle, you are ENABLING his affair! My H lives with his OW also, however I have still put my foot down and have now insisted that our D goes there no more!! Not so long back my H too had asked if he could have our D for overnight stays, I refused point blank!! I will never allow it!! Because I have now stopped my H from taking our D to his and OW's shack up, he snatches five or ten minutes here and there with her as and when he feels like it. He NEVER calls her on the phone to see how she is, but then he never has, yet he makes out he's such a doting dad and he loves her - funny way of showing it, that's all I have to say.

It's still early days for you so anything could happen in your sitch. My H left around eight months ago now and goodness, what a roller coaster ride it's been!! He wavered a lot between I and OW in the early days, used to call saying he wanted to come home, he still loved me, then there was a period of withdrawal at around the third month after he left for around two months. From the fifth month onwards, he was back and forth like a yoyo in my life, but since I found out about his plans to marry her, he seems to have withdrawn again.

Do you have a thread somewhere that I can read? Feel like we have hijacked Jazmoms thread <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Feel like we have hijacked Jazmoms thread </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You two go right ahead! I'm interested just haven't had time to reply--crazy week here! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

My 1st post is 'life after infidelity' under the divorced/divorcing section. This explains a lot of my thread although during my 18 years with H they have been numerous occasions. I wonder why it has taken so long and so much heart ache to get to this. I take on board what you have to say about S staying overnight and as much as I would love to stop this my S looks forward to going and seems happy about it. If it came to an occasion where things were differnent I would stop immediately. I just think it is only two night in a month he stays and this gives me some time out for myself (which I think is important) to recharge my batteries and think clearly. If he does not heed my wishes to limit the amount of time OW is around my S then I shall review again and H will not be allowed to take S to his house. I worry about the effect it has on the children and do not want them to say in years to come that I was not supportive and was destructive in their relationship with their father. I know H has done wrong and I do not condone what he has done, I will never forgive or forget but surely the children interests need to met also.

I think it is good to post here as we three have such similiar situations that it is good to chat. It was interesting to read that your H has yo yo'd back and forth, I still expect my H to contact me telling me has made a mistake but then again I did give him the impression in no uncertain terms that he would not be welcome back at all and he knows I will not see or speak to him right now, he is definately in the dark !!!!

Hi, Lianne and Feelingit,

I've had a busy week, but also seems like sometimes I just hunker down and don't have the energy to post right back. Other times I get obsessive and can't stop searching the internet that will HELP! Guess I'm still hoping there's a magic answer out there. . .

I'm gonna respond to both of your posts in this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have been in Plan B for about 7 weeks now and yes it does seem that H does not care and does not attempt to make any contact but I guess this has helped the healing process and for me to take charge of my life. I can't wait for day when I don't go to sleep thinking about H and OW and wake up still thinking of H and OW. My anger has been surpressed a lot and I guess I am starting to feel pity for both of us. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">feeling, did you do a plan A before going to B? Did you write a Plan B letter? I'll look for yr other posts in case you've already answered. I think I went to B too late and was too inconsistent with Plan A for a while. It really took such an effort in those early months to control myself and my mouth. If I wasn't screaming, I was crying. But I think I finally got it and was more consistent and focused on myself before going to B. Being in B is definitely better for me right now. I'd had it and needed to take care of myself.

I'd like to wake up without thinking of my WAH and OW, too! Or go more than an hour during the day without it flashing like a bad advertising pop-up in my mind. I'm further along than either of you and lately I have noticed that it's better. I don't break out into tears each time. The pain is a little softer. Sometimes I feel downright cheery (though it's harder this time of year!) I flip between anger/disgust and empathy/pity for him.

I feel nothing but contempt for OW, though. I know it takes two and probably common for us BW to look for reasons to excuse the WAH but STILL! My OW has been very aggressive and, sorry, she could have pulled back and told him to get D first. If she had, I'm sure our sitch would be very different. The OW is a just a drug that keeps the WAH from looking at themselves or the marriage with any clarity. I try to look at her with some pity, though--if this is what it takes for her, then she is in for a rough ride. I don't see how a relationship can flourish on the backs of a BW and children. It can't--and that's why the denial is so strong on their part. They HAVE to make us the sole bad guys. That's how they manage to switch off the good memories and feelings for the BW.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is his OW an American, or is it someone he met back in England, an Englishwoman? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She's an American, someone I've know vaguely for 30 years. I think I'd hate it even more if she was a Brit like him. But knowing her, she's probably becoming "more English than the English," ya know. I imagine she's gotten in the habit of a cuppa in the afternoon and saying things like cor-blimey (however you spell it!)this and ruddy that!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> After three weeks he'd moved in with me, after six weeks together we were engaged to be married, six months later we were married, two months later I was expecting D8!!!! It all happened pretty quick. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What I would hate is for this mess to be blamed on the fact that we had a whirlwind love affair. I don't believe that is a contributing factor at all because we were so successful for so long. I'm in a women's therapy group and am the only one seperated and dealing with this. But you know what? Even though most of them appear to the world to be in good long-lasting marriages, I listen to their issues and I KNOW I had a great marriage that was real and vital and passionate for a long time. So when I hear about a couple who've been together 35 years and will probably never divorce but still don't have any honest communication happening, I feel better. WAH has tried to deny the good times, but he can't change history.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> don't get how fathers just accept things and make no effort to patch things between themselves and their children. My D has not seen her dad for four weeks now apart from 5 mins here and there when he has picked up S. H has not made an effort to phone continuously to both children. How can they just block out this part of their life </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's the denial again, don't ya think? Hard enough to look us in the eye but to deal with the children's pain is too much. Any problems my D10 is having are my fault says WAH. Once when he didn't call her back when she was sick, he blamed me because I don't have an answering machine at home--despite the fact that we never left the house and I have two cell phones and e-mail he can leave a message! I told him if he'd buy us a machine, I'd be happy to install it! He's just not capable right now of accepting any responsibility. He tosses the blame around and hopes the wind doesn't blow it his way.

I have more but I'm going out with a girlfriend - it's Friday night! A year ago, I could barely get out of bed unless I had to so this is an improvement.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Hi Jazmo & Lianne

To answer those few questions. I did not go into Plan A as I arrived at MB too late to know about it and this all happened so quickly (within a month) I thought we were okay and happy in our little unit (silly me). I also have not written a Plan B letter as I have looked at the sample ones and feel that I cannot be honest and say that I love him, I want him back or that the door will be left open ( I cannot say what I do not believe) I just went into Plan B telling him I now longer wanted anything to do with him and for him not to talk to me unless it is about the children and then only by email or through someone else. I did write a letter to him when he first left but never mailed it, I thought it would be tossed a side and not digested and would have been a waste of time.

I just wonder how long the fog or OW being a drug lasts I mean you too have been months without WH wanting to come back. Surely these OW must be meeting our H needs. I know my HOW must be otherwise I would have heard something from him. I have not heard anything from H regarding my request for S to have minimal contact with OW. Also the solicitor sent a letter to H regarding Financial settlement (in regards to a legal separation)and H has not acknowledged to me that he has recieved this. I think h is maybe waiting for me to contact him and maybe he thinks I am going to get mad and ring but he is in for a surprise because i am not going to.

I too have images flash up every so often in the day. I no longer feel anger but disappointment and disgust in how H has treated the family and has just cast us aside like rubbish.

What are you both doing at Christmas I know this is going to be a tough time for all of us. My H is going to have the children after christmas and I am spending the day with my family. Will your H's ask to see the children on the day (unlike mine, although to be fair he hasn't got a choice as i would say no after all it was his choice to go off with OW let him have her instead)

Anyway must go myself. I am so glad to hear you are going out and not sitting around. It does you so much good to go out with friends and meet new ones. What if you met someone and they asked you out, would you go?

Feeling, I also reckon that these OW's must be meeting our H's needs to the full, infact I know that the OW is meeting one of my H's needs GREATLY and that is his sexual needs!! How do I know this? He told me!!!!! I can't understand why he would tell me something like this because it was something that hurt me a lot and he would've known full well that it would have hurt me - maybe that was his intention??. We were chatting one night on the phone a few months back and he'd said to me "Do you want to know the real reason why I am with her"? He'd then went on to say that it was sex! I guess that about measured the real depth of his love for me - he left for a woman who granted him anything he desired in bed. My nickname for OW is *Miss Whiplash*......LOL!!

In PlanA and because we were seperated, it was TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE to meet any of my H's needs. I PlanA'd for several months, wayyyyyy too long!!
My PlanA was basically to look great at all times he saw me, act *as if* and like I was moving on with my life and doing 180's on myself. I only ever saw him for five minutes at a time and once a week, when I would drive D8 in my car to see him, so it was hard!! Often wondered if I was acting right or wrong though, because I used to get this impression that when H saw me happy, smily faced, etc, etc.....he was happy too and wasn't feeling so bad or guilty about what he'd done!! I feel now that I was no more than making his transistion to the OW easy for him, in that I remained his friend and was his sounding board for a few month after he left. BIG MISTAKE!!! Wish I'd gone immediately to PlanB, the day he left.

Yep, I full well believe that my H's OW is meeting every one of his needs and very successfully, because I hardly see him these days and he's even stopped calling on the phone for chats like he used too. I am no longer meeting any needs, he now has no use of me!! OW has totally replaced me and our D it seems!!

As for Christmas. Well, since I told H that he wasn't taking our D to OW's anymore, our D won't be going to his and OW's shackup over Christmas. H had complained that if I didn't allow him to take our D to his and OW's, then our daughter wouldn't get her presents and he wouldn't see her open them. I'd then suggested that H come to my house the day after Christmad Day, bring her presents then and I would go out for an hour and leave them alone together. He seemed OK with this and said he would.

However, when H saw our daughter yesterday, he'd told her that he'd see her this coming Sunday and the Sunday after he'd bring her presents with him which will be four days before Christmas. So I'm guessing now that the OW has forbidden H to come to my house the day after Christmas, so he's dropping D8's presents off before Christmas instead..........which means he won't get to see her open them. I know that OW has probably had some say in the matter and is influencing H, because when I was talking to H about it all, he was sobbing his heart out and seemed desperate to want to see our D open the presents he had for her. Nobody changes their mind that quickly!!!

H likes to keep his women happy and he is a conflict avoider, plus he seems besotted with this OW, so he will give in to OW's whims, including those whims where OW isn't too happy that he has to enter my home to see his own daughter.

Jazmom, will get back on your post tomorrow <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">)have not written a Plan B letter as I have looked at the sample ones and feel that I cannot be honest and say that I love him, I want him back or that the door will be left open ( I cannot say what I do not believe </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wish I felt the same. I don't know how to get to that place where I really and truly don't care any more for him. Are you sure that's where you are? I'm angry, too, all that stuff, but still care for him. Lately, that makes me feel like a fool.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Surely these OW must be meeting our H needs. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not sure about that. It's one thing to meet someone's needs when you're in the flush of romance, quite another to do so when things aren't so rosy. Don't forget, the OW is seeing WAH's best face and vice versa. They're meeting some needs - sex, lots of emotional support which prevents our WAHs from thinking clearly about what they really want in their lives.

I am really dreading Christmas. Last year's holiday was the lowest time for me. All these memories are coming back--good ones of years before, and last year when I thought I would die. Just found out my MIL is coming from the UK to stay with him for a month, same as last year.WAH e-mailed that he was going over for a week to fly back with her (nice he can afford that when I can't afford an overnight at the local Budget Inn!). Long story but she hurt me as much as WAH did, completely betrayed me last holiday season. Even though I know she was just being her usual difficult self--long story--it still hurt so much. I am just dreading her being around here. I don't want to see her, think I'll let the OW deal with her craziness. It has to come out as MIL has been vicious to everyone at one time or another.

D10 said something so poignant the other day. She was talking about a friend whose parents are divorced and the dad lives 800 miles away. She said, "Well, I haven't lost my father but I have lost my daddy."

It's one thing to meet someone's needs when you're in the flush of romance, quite another to do so when things aren't so rosy.

Yeah, now you mention it, that is so very true Jazmom! Of course our H's needs were being met in the first flush of their romances, for the OW is new and exciting for them, she puts on her best face, our H's don't see their faults and shortcomings, only regular and great sex, etc, etc....but when the novelty wears off, will OW still be able to meet needs and ALL needs???

You know something, my H claims that I wasn't meeting certain needs of his and I was too dependant upon him. He has said such things as, I didn't have meals ready for him when he came in from work, I didn't do the grocery shopping alone, go to the doctors/dentist on my own because I relied on him to take me, etc, etc....
He even once said to me a few weeks ago, that if I hadn't been so dependant on him and had done things for myself, he'd have probably never left me and he'd still be here.........LOLOLOL!!!! What a heap of crap!!

Best laugh is, he has an OW who doesn't finish work until two hours after he does, so there is still no meal on the table for him when he finishes work!!! OW cannot drive either, so this means that my H has to take her EVERYWHERE that she wants to go, ie: shopping, doctors, dentists, etc, etc.

So why did he see my being dependant upon him as a problem, yet it aint a problem that OW is dependant upon him??? He is leading the very same life with OW that he had with me, he is doing the very same things for OW, that he did for me....... his life really has not changed that much at all!!!

As you said though Jazmom, he will likely be overlooking all of this because he is still so besotted with OW and their romance is still quite new...the flush hasn't quite worn off yet! In three years time it might be a different story.

Good news is though, is that H now knows that I am doing things for myself, he sees I've become independant and am doing things for myself and these are consistent changes I've kept up and that he must be noticing!!!. A few weeks after he left I was driving all over in the car, visiting family and friends I hadn't seen in years because I was basically a hermit while with H, (I hadn't drove in three years btw!!!!!!!). He knows I am doing the shopping, even sometimes catching the bus to get to the store - this is something he probably thought I'd never do.....LOLOLOL, because I loathe public transport and would never catch a bus before!!!! He's called on the phone and I've said stuff like "Gotta dash H, I've a dentist appointment in half an hour". So ya know, while I have now become the person that H seemly wanted, his OW is EXACTLY the same kind of person that he claimed he didn't want, someone dependant on him!!!!!

Will he grow weary of her?? Maybe so. But he managed to stay married to me for ten years with my being dependant upon him, so he may last a long time with her also.

<small>[ December 10, 2003, 05:37 AM: Message edited by: Lianne37 ]</small>

Jazzmom

I guess as he left me 18 mths ago (even though the OW, a different one, did not want him)I think that I truely have had enough of being treated like dirt and made to feel second choice. Yes I am still angry and this anger gets worse when I have to speak to him in person which is why Plan B is so good as I have not spoken to him for 8 weeks now. Do not feel like a fool because of the way you feel for your H everyone is different and feels things differently. I think you have to really face what is happening and be prepared to let go only when you have decided that for yourself you will be at that place where you don't care. I can't say 100% that I do not care for my H but I do know that I don't want to be treated like dirt again and do not want to go through the pain and anguish again so have made the decision to look to the future and do things for myself and the children without doing it get back at H, doing it for myself.

It is funny H tried to contact me 3 times yesturday without success and he sounds really pi''ed off (good) as he can't get hold of me as I am busy doing other things etc. He actually asked to see the children before he was due to and that he missed all of us. He said he needed to talk to me. I finally texted him back this afternoon saying that this week we were a bit busy and that he would see S this weekend as planned. H texted back to say that he needed to speak to me the other day but didn't say what about. I wonder is this part of the fog lifting if it is it is too late I am moving forward without him.

It is funny how our WH choice someone else like ourselves, you wonder if this is like a kick in the teeth but it is just because they are not happy with themselves and these OW will not be able to full fill their needs all the time for ever. Like you say it is sexual at the moment but that can only last for a little while and what are they left with but an empty shell. I tell you both we shall be the winners in the end because we are able to look at ourselves and chance what we don't like and only have in our lives what is required, as we would have counselled ourselves and become better people. Take care both of you.

Well I guess I was right about the fog lifting. WH came to collect S yesturday and stayed for five hours. I know this is not in Plan B but I kept my distance and was pleasant to WH showing him I was getting on with things and enjoying life (as really I am so didn't have trouble) I could see that he was regretting his decision but as he is still with OW he must be weighing his options as to whether I would have him back or not. What he doesn't realise is that I don't want him back and even if I did he would have to leave this OW and be on his own for a while before I even thought about his coming back. I surely have made up my mind not to have him back and put up with crap again. I am free from all the hurt, pain and anguish that comes with him. It is so great to be able to vent your emotions on this site and to people who understand what I am going through. I shall keep strong.