</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by faithhopelove04:
<strong>
The thing is, it's not all about an A anyway. She is in love with herself and her friends and her lifestyle. She needs to choose between your marriage and her self-centered ways.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with that. I think if I made her choose today, she would choose to leave. She told her mom that she wanted to talk to me about lawyer stuff. Her mom asked her if she had actually spoken to a lawyer. She hasn't. I feel that she is talking the talk. I don't know if she will walk the walk. She is not very stable right now, and I fear that I'm going to push her to a decision that we are both going to regret. I feel like I am walking on a very thin line. Unfortunately, the logic of not behaving like a married woman, or a responsible adult is not working with her, and I don't have an adequate response or counter for that.

I am so sorry, you are being so patient and I am not helping that. It's just that I don't want to see you get walked all over and drag out the pain only to have the same result. But I know there are many people on this forum that have waited a long time and gone through so much and in the end their patience paid off.
When it comes down to it, I am in the same position you are basically. It's just that after a year of my heart being stomped on over and over to the point that I have wanted to die, I have come to the point that I can deal with the possibility of my being firm pushing him into divorce. I hate to see anyone else have to go through that in order to let go.
OK, I am going to get myself kicked off this board for being so negative! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I am definitely not your typical marriage-builder right now. It's just that I really wish there was something for those of us who would like to Plan A, but it's not a viable option, but don't want to move to plan B yet. I feel a little lost.
Wow, I am really not helping am I? Just what you need, someone to add to your confusion... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
I do think it's possible that this is just a "stage" and she will come out of it and realize what she is giving up. How's that for encouragement, a little better? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I guess that's really what I'm searching for. I haven't attempted a Plan A, so I don't know what to expect if I go straight to Plan B. I guess the best thing that I can do is find a kind way to tell her that I believe she is being unfaithful, tell her I love & support her. I'm not sure how to get this across without making demands. I'll see what her response is, and if I have to, go to Plan B. I'm hoping that if she does go the divorce route, it may jolt her a little. (Oh, I have to pay money for a divorce, with no concrete reason on my behalf. That's no good!) I'm really up in the air on how to proceed. I know plan A requires patience and kindness, which I can give. I just feel that she feels the only way to fix this is to divorce me. I don't know if she will be able to see my kindness and patience before it is too late.

OK, so what is your next step? You need a plan. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

That's what is killing me. I don't exactly know where to proceed from here.

Here is what I have formulated so far.
- Follow Plan A principles. (I get hung up here, Plan A begins with admission and NC, which ain't happening.., so does this become Plan D for Doormat?)

- I plan to state my beliefs ONCE (unfaithful, willingness to work on us, etc.) firmly but without making any demands.

- Try to schedule things for us to do together that are positive and see if she lets the walls down a little.

- Try to find something more concrete on the A. Haven't devised a plan for this part yet.

- Work on improving myself.


As previously stated, we are going to dinner on Saturday. I have chosen for us to go to our favorite restaraunt. Hopefully, it will trigger some fond memories for her. I will try to let her guide the direction that the conversation takes.
I feel strongly that she will say she wants a D. How should I respond if she does?

Any other suggestions?

<small>[ February 26, 2004, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: thefurnitureman ]</small>

I get hung up here, Plan A begins with admission and NC,
It does? Where did you read that?

Read "Surviving An Affair" by Dr Willard Harley.

I think you are on the right track. If she tells you she wants a D, this is what you say:
"Honey, I love you and I don't want that, but I cannot control you. You do what you need to do and I will think about how I will respond if you file."
Then you will have set her free (she may stop there, just because she sees the "cage door" opening), and the ball will be in her court. Also, you have told her you love and that a D is not what you want. And you have bought yourself a little more time to decide if you want to sign the papers or drag it out with a contested divorce (buying even more time). You are obviously not ready to make the decision to sign anything, so I think that's the best plan.

Chris - Thanks for your input. I may have misconstrued that through reading posts. Plan A is negotiation of separation. I seriously doubt she will admit to an A. Even if she does admit, I don't think she will agree to end her.... 'friendship.' How can I overcome these two obstacles if they arise?

Faith - Thanks as well. This is really the way I want to approach it. For the first month we were apart, I didn't come here. I don't know why. I spent time focusing on the hurt of her moving to her mom's, and focusing on what she wanted and I wanted. It finally hit me to come here, I got a better grip on what was REALLY happening, and I began to focus only on what I believe in. I believe in all the great times we've had, the vows I made, and the beautiful woman I see in all our pictures over the years. That is what I'm standing up for. I am just trying to find a way to do that without driving her further away. At this point, I don't know if time is my friend or my enemy......

Ethan

You are doing a great job. You're not reacting, you're responding. You are putting tons of thought into how to go about things and that says a lot about you and your love for her. I think you have made some progress in figuring out what to do - sometimes it takes a lot of back and forth with yourself and someone else who's giving input to lay things all out so you can see them more clearly.
Something else I was thinking about was, how much have you looked at yourself based on what you've read here at MB and your past behavior in the relationship? I think that's hugely important, to know where you've made mistakes and how things will be different if you get your marriage back. The man that I mentioned before who's wife came back after his 180 did just that. Even though she was wrong in leaving him and completely selfish, he still took full responsibility for the behaviors that caused the drifting in their marriage (LBs and not meeting ENs).
Just food for thought, you may have done this already.

I have made some mistakes in the past, but certainly nothing HUGE. When we met, she was not the greatest student, so I helped her get into college. She may graduate in December. When she graduated HS, she worked crappy jobs. I got her a job with the company I worked for. She has succeeded there and has lasted longer there than I did. I always felt her self-esteem was a little low, so I made it a point to always tell her how beautiful she was. If she wanted something, I got it for her. Sometimes I feel like my biggest mistake was spoiling her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I have always been honest and faithful with her.

I was slightly financially irresponsible, not paying bills on time and the like. Some of this was because I always helped her with her bills, some was just lack of a focus on my part. When we went to buy our house, her credit was close to perfect, which I am partially responsible for. Mine was not, which I am completely responsible for. We had some big hurdles to clear getting the house, but we got it. I know this caused some friction. I also did not put enough focus on time just for us. We were often so busy, that the only time we spent together was asleep in bed. I know that is the biggest problem we face. Unfortunately, she doesn't want to address any of this.

<small>[ February 26, 2004, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: thefurnitureman ]</small>

At the risk of offending you, I think that maybe you could stand to do a little more soul-searching. (You know I just want to help - right?) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> If you had been meeting her ENs and you had a fulfilling relationship, she wouldn't feel the need to find fulfillment elsewhere. I KNOW that she probably didn't meet your ENs either and a lot of all that was probably due to being too busy. Have you read up a lot on ENs? Something else to read is The 5 Love Languages by Gary Chapman. That would be very helpful.
If she does come back to you, you want to be 100% prepared to make the changes necessary for this to never happen again.

Not offended at all. I do not feel that I am blame-free in this. But can I express that to her without being a doormat. Is it possible that by telling her this is just gives her more reason to do what shes doing. She tells everyone that it's not me, it's her, and how she has the greatest admiration for me, etc. I want to work on our relationship, b/c both of us have taken it for granted. I'm just afraid that I won't be able to open her eyes.

You sound so much like my friend from this forum that I told you about. He was writing posts just like this and 2 weeks later, his wife wanted to restore the marriage. You seem completely genuine, and I believe she will see that. I don't think that telling her the part you think you played will make you a doormat, it will not give her more reason, in fact maybe it will open her eyes just a little to what caused this and her part in it, etc.
I think you have a good grasp on how to act/what to do Saturday. And if she brings up divorce, you have a good answer. I am about to leave and may not post for a day or two, but I will be very curious to hear how Saturday goes. Please keep us updated (you can e-mail me too at roseandgrace@hotmail.com) I will say a prayer for you guys and I wish you the best of "luck". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I hope things go well.
Keep that chin up, and be strong!!

I just wanted to say thank you to faithhopelove04 for the post that suggested what to say if asked for a divorce. "Honey I love you and don't want that but I can't control you.............. I was kind of disappointed that I hadn't received many replies to my recent first post so I've been trying to read other to find out what info I could gleam from them.

I have so many questions about the littlest things and you answered one of them. Thanks!

If she tells you she wants a D, this is what you say:
"Honey, I love you and I don't want that, but I cannot control you. You do what you need to do and I will think about how I will respond if you file."

Better yet, just say, "Honey, I love you and I don't want that"

There is no need to discuss it unless you want one. (Steve Harley)

Thanks, Chris.
What tact should I approach her with this weekend? Should I try to find out more about her current behavior and her possible A? Should I focus more on the causes of our problems? I'm still searching for direction as far as that goes.

Read "Surviving An Affair" by Dr Willard Harley.
Read the links below.

Don't push anything.
Sort yourself out first and understand what you are doing.
Don't "react" to events. Take a deep breath and pause before you say something.

If you don't open your mouth, you can't put your foot in it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Can someone please elaborate what the 180 thing is?

furnitureman, sounds like you are having a lot of the same questions I'm having right now. I feel like a little kid and that I need advice on everything I do or say. When I go back to the house in march while he is on spring break do I greet him with a hug or give him one when I leave? He'll be graduating from college this year is it okay to get him a present? What if he calls to see how I am doing, what do I say? do I sound like I'm doing well? While I'm at the house should we do things together like go to the movies or go hiking?

I feel like he dreads any time he has to talk to me and that he is just biding his time until he can get out on his own.

I feel like if I ask him about his needs that it just sounds like I'm trying to work things out when he's already made it up in his mind that he can't be happy with me. He says he has been unhappy for so long and that this OW makes him happy. I also think even if he did contemplate that I could possibly meet his EN/PN it would only be temporary and he doesn't want to go through all that again.

I can't do plan A because he doesn't want to end the A, he doesn't want to work things out, and we haven't lived under the same roof or state for that matter since september 03 (It was initially for a job I accepted with the plan that he would be joining me after he graduated).

If anybody wants to know my about my situation read the my post under just found out and that I haven't seen anything in my situation yet. I typed it in a bad format so I'm sorry about that. Thanks in advance for any thoughts or suggestions.

I know that I definitely feel that way. I am definitely on eggshells about what I should be doing right now. Without having proof of an A, I don't really know if my actions are pulling her closer or farther away. It's crazy. I'm definitely afraid that if she is in the fog, that me opening up is not going to help anything. Jeez...

I can't do plan A
Yes you can.
Read "Surviving An Affair" and the links below.