SkyKing,<P>I'll throw my $0.02 into this thread. First, your concerns are very valid. Most of what people here have pointed out is correct. Second, I believe that your relationship can last, BUT, you knew this was coming, somethings don't really square up with me and perhaps not you. <P>Consider the comment you just made about everyone loving or liking this woman of great character. Does her exH feel this way? Maybe she did the "Noble" thing and stayed in a bad marriage for the kids, but she really didn't stay in the marriage did she? She had three affairs of some duration. She was "in love" with the 3rd man and had sex with you. So far I have said nothing, that you haven't said already. The BUT comes from this: Why did she conduct her life in this particular way? <P>Does she offer you any reasons, that make sense to you. Are there emotional problems or sexual addiction issues here? All of these things can be overcome, if you and she have the strength. A strong union can be formed. <P>Have you examined your own marriage and behavior carefully? You imply that your marriage was of a long duration? Was the only time you cheated in the last two months of it? Why then? What issues lead to the demise of your marriage? Have you read His Needs/Her Needs and considered your marriage in the context of this paradigm? How about hers?<P>I could go on but it seems to me that if your relationship is to survive and prosper, then issues of mistrust are not the issues. You can trust that your "girlfriend" will not change unless there is a focused effort to do so. The same holds for you. Love does not conquer all, in most cases. Work coupled with love can do some pretty amazing things.<P>You see to me this isn't a matter of trust. You can trust that her behaviors and yours will not change just because you are in love. You can also trust that if you two do some hard work and reevaluate your past, then using the methods discussed here and delineated by K, there is a good chance for a marriage to work.<P>I think what people here are really responding to is not that you two could not have a good marriage, but they know that people just don't magically change by trusting that they will. Your original post simply asked "if I believe hard enough, will it work?". Their answer and mine would be no.<P>But IMHO you two could have a very successful relationship, if you can address some very obvious issues. It is not a one way street either. You both have to do some work. In fact if your "intended" balks at this then I think you have your answer in a way that none of us could provide you.<P>God Bless You Both<P>JL

Skyking--<P>Oh my!! You have nooooooo idea how similar a beginning to ours. Let's see if we can complicate this even more--did you meet as a result of internet chat? (brand new stats of success are even lower...ok, more like invisible.)<P>I'd be happy to give you the low-down by e-mail if you're interested...(luckslec@aol.com) but I'm sure I've bored the members here thrice over with my story so I won't expound now. <P>How can you trust each other when the stacked deck makes trust seem impossible? Easy to say, not so easy to follow, but it CAN be done....1) time, 2) complete and total honesty, and 3) safeguarding your relationship. By safeguarding, I mean learning as much as you can about HEALTHY relationships, learning what you did "wrong" the first time around, and correcting. This website is fabulous. And, realizing that safeguarding is a delicate, changeable thing as your relationship progresses. You may be much more prone to check up on each other than a new, "mentally/emotionally disease-free" couple might. Anyone here who has experienced infidelity can share what THOSE horrible feelings entail. As your relationship develops, it is especially important to remain honest about the NEED to check up, instead of resorting to cycles of sneaking around ON each other and sneaking around to check up on each other. <P>We've established our own couple "rules." Internet activity (chat) is logged and accessible to both. Rarely a fear these days, BUT we can check if we want to. Separate activities are agreed to by BOTH, with clear understanding of the who, what, when, and where's. Even the why's. The feelings of both are equally important, and if the needs of one start overshadowing the other's, it's time to re-balance until it's equal again. The term "equal" is relative. It's actually the feeling of happiness and contentment both experience.<P>Each relationship is unique. But there is also a natural progression to healthy relationships, and you are putting that "apple cart before the horse." We did too. Everything backwards. Lots of rationalizations. Lots of fantasy. Then all of a sudden, one day you wake up to...reality. Repeat--it CAN be done, but you'd better put your seatbelt on. It's very, VERY difficult.<P>I'd strongly suggest counselling, NOW. Don't say eh, so we've had a confusing start but things will be okay. If you want this to work, you're gonna need as much help as you can possibly get. You're going to have to heal, change bad habits, and nuture this new relationship all at the same time. Tall order. That's why the stats are so alarming as to success--the work involved is overwhelming to most. <P>We're on track, in love and happy after 3 years. We feel good about "us," but the jury's still out about long-term. How could it not be with such a beginning? We have setbacks that scare us. As hard as we try, we still occasionally go back over old territory (unresolved issues). That's a product of the MANY things happening at once. Picking through it all is difficult. I read somewhere that it takes a person 7 years to completely adjust to any big life change or event (marriage, birth of a baby, a death, a move, a career change). That's a sobering thought.<P>Btw, your attitude is great. I've loved reading your comments to responses you've gotten so far. I think you've got a good head on your shoulders to be able to gleen knowledge from rough replies too, because they're just as important to gaining wisdom. <P>The term "platonic sex buddies" IS an oxymoron...and it's used quite frequently by cheating spouses (or "players" unwilling to commit) online. Fantasy-land...in my "bad to worse" days, I believe I rationalized that term a time or two. Sigh.<P>------------------<BR>Laura<P>"I cannot care a little for you. I love you only just enough to love you all the way."~~Rod McKuen<P>

(paraphrasing) He who is without sin, cast the first stone. Or something to that affect. My point is, I can not judge neither her or you. God knows I've made my own share of mistakes. And infidelity is just one of them. My only advice is that you wait to pop the big question. You want to make sure that she is ready and also re-examine if you are ready. I'd also recommend that you buy the manual "Before You say I DO", by Wes Roberts & Norman Wright. I have a extra copy if you'd like it. Email me your address if you'd like (lady_divine77@yahoo.com). I want to welcome you to this forum and i hope to see more of you. I believe that you have a lot to offer us here as well as a lot you can learn. I hope things will work out for your best interest. Whether that is with this woman or not. Allow God to order your steps and you won't go wrong. What seems impossible to us as humans is 1+1 to god. For GOD said that he is able to do exceedingly and abundantly above all we are able to imagine. You're in my prayers and once again WELCOME!!<P>------------------<BR>"If you can learn from the mistakes of others, you won't have to make them youself."<P>

Jamie-Lee and Lucks...<P>Thanks for more good input. And thanks for the welcome.<P>I'll be around here for awhile. Maybe a long while.<S>

Thank you...<P>I don't feel that my story is especially well received here because it is so... corrupt. I guess that is the best word I can use but I have good news to report.<P>Based on many of the posts I've read here and reading of MB principals I was able to frame some very constructive and to the point questions for my intended regarding trust and faithfulness.<P>It was an excellent discussion and I learned alot about her and why she did some of the things she did. I as well explained some of my motives.<P>I am not so naive as to think that we do not have a lot of work ahead of us. We do and we are committed to it.<P>Most importantly we learned that we are both committed to a life of fidelity and a succesful relationship. Now to equip ourselves.<P>

SkyKing - well, I guess you touched a few nerves, now didn't you? <P>You handled it well, though. And Lucks is a great one to talk to, she'll give you some no-nonsense advice that you can use.<P>Glad you didn't run away and looked through the site. The tools are all here. The best advice you've been given - wait. Educate yourselves. Work on yourselves individually. I do NOT believe that "once a cheater, always a cheater", but I do believe that some personal growth must take place and we each have to take a good hard look at ourselves. You want to make sure you take care of the danged personal growth stuff BEFORE you wind up like us, again, right???<P>Hang in there. Learn. Search yourself. Counselling is a great idea. If you pick through these posts, you'll find all the good ideas. Use them. Even a wondrous love can easily fall by the wayside if we never learn what we need to know to get through the rough times.<P>Best of luck to you.<P>Lori