This is the same person that has the topic "Help, I am losing him" He went to see my counselor with me yesterday and he just reconfirmed to her that he was serious about leaving and that there was only about a 1 in 1000 chance that he would ever come back. He doesn't believe I can change and even if I do, he says that if he is happy, he still won't come back. I know that sounds harsh and yes it breaks my heart into pieces, but it still can't take away the fact that I love him. Other than being controlling with money, he was a great husband. Always spent time with the kids and me, instead of the boys at work. Always loving. I was the one that was argumentive and unresponsive to his needs. But now that he is saying that there is hardly a chance that he will come back, if you were in my shoes, would you just move on and get on with your life. I have two children 4 and half and 11. I am almost 35 years old and all this emotional stress is wearing me completely out. I really don't want to lose him forever, but I seem to have no control over that anyway. Somedays I don't feel like I am going to survive another day. This is killing me. Any advice of how to handle this would be appreciated. <p>[This message has been edited by Laura W. (edited June 11, 1999).]

Laura,<P>Would you be able to convince your husband to invest 3-6 months working on these probelms before he moved on with divorce? I'd suggest that you try this with counseling through MarriageBuilders---I think that you would find yourself making some positive progress within a couple months. <P>You sound like you're in pretty "bad" shape emotionally. You should see a doctor for antidepressants---you'll need to be strong for your kids. My best advice to you to get your husband to stay is to listen to him and start meeting these needs (and eliminating the "lovebusters"). It's going to take time---if he won't agree on delaying his leaving, perhaps he would delay the divorce to give you a chance to work on your side of the marriage.

\<p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]

P.S. Laura: I second K's reply.

Ok guys, I bought the book "Love Must be Tough". My husband has already stated that he is leaving as soon as his apartment is finished being built. Probably somewhere between the 10th and 15th of May. There IS NO CHANGING HIS MIND about this part. Yes, at first I have gone through the begging and crying and pathetic crap, but now I have started acting more independent and not crying around him. I plan to use the time we have left to meet his needs and try to show him how much I love him (without pushing). He has agreed that this part will be fine (what man wouldn't). But he said it will not change his mind about leaving. So he leaves. What next? I obviously am going to read the book. Let him go without crying or begging. He knows that I am not closing the door because he knows that I don't want the marriage to end. We do have children. He is eight years younger than me. He adopted my son who is 11 and we have a daughter that is about to turn 5. He has always been a family type man, but he has NEVER lived on his own. He went straight from his mother to me. He is a police officer, so he has been taught how to control your emotions quite well. I really feel that once he gets out and gets over the initial missing me and the kids, that he is so stubborn that he will stay gone. I pray that this doesn't happen, but it, according to him, is likely. My chances here are about 1 in 10,000 or more. I plan to keep acting tough and independent and I have recruited friends to call, so that I won't call him. I am going to leave him alone. He knows my hearts desire and I guess this is the only thing that I can do. I can't keep asking him to come home. How long should I wait after he leaves to make any contact with him about how he is feeling? Or should I wait until he initiates the conversation himself? Our wedding anniversary is May 22. Should I send him a poem about being gone? Look under poems, I posted it there.

\<p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]

I guess I sound so pathetic, but I don't do that in front of him. I think that my only chance is to leave him alone and see if he misses his family. It is so hard to finally face the fact that I have no control over his decision. But thanks for all the advice and I will leave him alone when he moves out. I just feel so helpless. He is buying bunk beds for the kids at his place and everything. It just seems that he is making things so permanent. Yes, I know I can live without him and will survive, but I still love him and have been with only him for the past 10 years. I don't know how to not be married. It scares me to think that I may have to start all over again. But as Dobson said, I think he has lost a lot of respect for me and I guess the ball is in his court now. I really am going to die when he moves out on Monday the 17th. I don't have many friends that I can call because I have only lived where I live for 8 months. I guess I'm lucky to have my two children at home with me to help keep me busy, but I am going to miss him soooooooooooooo bad. If there is anyone in this forum who wants to exchange emails to help support each other, please let me know by emailing me at llwise@duke-energy.com

\<P><BR> <p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]

Well, it's me again. Would someone please tell me how to get the thoughts of my spouse being with someone else out of my mind. Remember he says we are done. So when he leaves, he is free. So I think about him touching someone else the same way he touches me and it drives me crazy. I still love him and would die if I find out he sleeps with someone else. He has voiced his concerns about all the diseases that are out there and I'm sure he'd be a safe sexer, but I don't want him to do it at all. I guess I just have to face up to the facts. Let him go, if he loves me he'll come back. Easier said than done. I don't have a busy busy job, so I have a lot of time to let my mind wonder. Please help. Praying helps, but I can't pray every minute of every day. I want my family back together someday and if that doesn't happen, what's next?

Ok, I believe that God has a reason for everything. My husband was suppose to move out on Monday the 17th of May, but the apartments that were being built were delayed by another week. So instead of making him leave, I am letting him stay. It really hurts though, because even though I have omitted all the lovebusters and we are still sleeping together and getting along ok, he doesn't think the change will be permanent. <P>Remember I lied to him about money several times throughout our marriage and also hit him when I was angry. Not all the time, but the last time it had been almost a year since I had hit him. He told me it was over because I had lied to him about money again and that is when I hit him. <P>I want everyone to realize that I had a real insecure past. I met my husband and felt like he was going to treat me the same way everyone else did. So everytime I got angry I would hit. He would threaten to leave, but would always stay. It was a lot in the beginning, but has gotten better and better. <P>I know that this crisis has turned me back to God and I know that I can make the changes, but he doesn't believe that because the last time I turned to God too, but didn't stay with God. I don't know how to explain the difference this time, but I know it is permanent. I guess the reality of someone really leaving is enough to say...hey, I have problems that need to be resolved and obviously I can't do that by myself. <P>God knows that I would love just one more chance to show my husband that our marriage could be the way it should have been all along. But no matter how things are between now and the time he moves out....HE IS STILL MOVING OUT. There is NOTHING I can do to change his mind. <P>I go to counseling once a week, separation support group, and talk to anyone who will listen. I feel like I am going to explode with tears. I have been taking Prozac for about 2 weeks now and it seems to help take the edge off the crying all the time. <P>I read Dobson's "Love Must Be Tough" in two days flat. I emailed my husband a nice tough, but loving letter that said that I want this marriage and he is leaving, so when he gets out it is up to him to decide what is more important to him and that I wanted him to be happy no matter what. That was very hard. He said it is very nice to know that the door is open incase he feels like he made a mistake. But he also stated that him coming back was a slim chance.<P>My daughter who is about to turn 5 prays every night for Jesus to help us bring her daddy back home. He hears these prays and says that he can not let them affect his decision. That his issues are with me, not her. I realize I have broken the trust in our marriage, but trust can be rebuilt. Would someone like to give me some pointers on how to act once he leaves. Like when he comes over to visit the kids....what can I do to make him notice the changes that I am going through? I love him and want more than anything for him to come back once he leaves. I realize that it may take a while (probably more than 6 months with his attitude), but I know how not to push...but just want to be sure I do all the right things so he will want to come home. He says he still loves me, so there just has to be a glimmer of hope for me. <P>I am just so scared of building up that hope and then he won't return and I'll have to start this pain all over again. Please I need more advice.

Laura:<P>My suggestions are:<P>1. Change your behavior (don't defend it to your husband, just change it). You've got a good start there.<P>2. Demonstrate love and caring for him when he gives you the opportunity, at least for the next several months.<P>I'm not a big fan of the "tough-love" approach at this point of your relationship---it's my belief that you should constantly demonstrate your "new" behaviors and show him that you do care about the marriage. It sounds like the way your letter was worded, you'll still have contact with him, so that's good (you can't force him to be with you). Especially try to encourage family interactions at this point (especially after he leaves). It's very important for your daughter no matter what, and it also provides you an opportunity to show him that you are working on these changes for the better.<P>You're attending counseling now---is it MARRIAGE COUNSELING? You should have that as your primary focus right now---you need to learn the behaviors and rules for a successful marriage. These will help you in your healing if you do end in divorce, so it won't be a waste of time.

Well, he moves out today. how am I going to cope? I feel like I am going to die. I need help. I feel like I don't know which way to turn, what to say or anything. Everything seems so confusing. I am taking Prozac, so that helps a little, but nothing takes away this pain that feels like someone is ripping your heart right out of your chest. I don't know if he will ever be back. I guess God is the only one who knows that. Everyone keeps saying, just focus on yourself now. But that is so hard. I am not going to call him or anything, but my insides want to. I know that will just push him away further. But I can't quit thinking about it at all. I try to stay busy, but no matter what I am doing, I am thinking about it. It is taking over my life. Is he coming back? Is he not coming back? These questions keep racing through my head. Please someone tell me that there is a decent chance that he will come back. Or will he not? I feel crazy. I want some one to talk to that will just sit and listen to me cry. But I have no one to do that to. <P>I know this is just the first day, but I already feel like it is too long. How will I make it through all these long days?

Also, what do you do if your spouse is visiting the kids and wants to have sex? Do you or don't you? Which is worse. Thinking he will go somewhere else for it if you don't do it, OR him thinking he can live where he is and still get that most important need met and not even need to come back. What a decision. I don't know what to do.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention. You guys do remember that I lied to him about money several times in our marriage and hit him when I was angry. A lot in the beginning of our marriage, but less and less as I felt more secure. The last time I hit him, it had been a year since I had hit him and I only hithim because he told me we were finished and that hurt me. Yes, I lied about getting a refund of some money. But when you are faced with losing someone you love, you can and will change your ways. But he thinks I can't change because of all the times I told him that I would and didn't. He always threatened to leave, but never did. But I've tried to convince him when someone is faced with that reality, they can and do want to change. He still has love for me, but not enough to stay. he is very very close to our daughter who is about to turn 5 years old. <BR> <BR>Does anyone think that someone would chance going through that again? <P>Do you think he would want to come back when he thinks I can't change?<P>I know that I can change. But really now, there is no way to show someone who doesn't live with you that you won't hit them or lie to them. I am not going to bug him when he leaves, but I don't want him to put me totally out of his mind. Could he possibly do this? Are men capable of getting past all those feelings and just moving on even though they still love someone ? <P>Does anyone here think I should have hope. He says he is pretty sure that he is not coming back and today when he moved his stuff I told him that I hoped he was happy with his decision and he said he was. He wanted to know if I was being sarcastic, but I wasn't. I do hope that he isn't happy with his decision later, but for now, I want him to do what he needs to do to want to come home. <P>Would any of you go back to this relationship? He seems so determined to be happy without me. It scares me a lot. I pray for him everyday. Ok, I'll stop going on and on, just someone tell me that there is hope. I feel like there is none. But I want him to come home. I need him and the children need him.

Laura W.,<P>all i can tell you, laura, is that when i read "love must be tough," i said the same thing that you did: "how can i possibly let him go? and will he know how much i don't want him to go (unless i tell him over and over again)?" when he moved out, it seemed so PERMANENT -- it still does.... but in reading dobson's advice, i came to realize that i was not helping the situation by thinking and voicing those thoughts.... i was actually making things worse! -- because my H could SEE these thoughts whenever he looked at my face, whenever he looked into my eyes. (after all, your spouse knows you better than anyone else, right?) and knowing this, he still had the "upperhand" and, feeling trapped, HAD to leave. <P>since he left, though, i have been trying VERY HARD not to let these thoughts dominate my life. i have gone on living day by day, praying, but not dwelling on the problems with my marriage. and an amazing thing has occurred. i don't know what it means yet, but i have been invited to his "new place" and we have begun some (emphasis on SOME) talking about our failing marriage. most times we have been just talking about life, television shows, what we did today, how work has been -- actually having real-life conversations with your spouse, what a concept!<P>what i'm saying, laura, is that we all know -- and your husband definitely knows -- how hurt you are and how much you don't want your marriage to end..... but it seems as though you are PUSHING your H out the door instead of letting him go.... a fine line, i know. and God knows that i didn't do everything "right" when my H was leaving; but in letting him go, i think i may have actually encouraged him to come back. only time will tell at this point.<P>but there is hope, laura. just start living now.... just start focusing on your day-to-day stuff... what to buy at the grocery store this week, what to wear to work today, reading that good novel you have been wanting to read, rearranging the furniture in your livingroom, anything but DWELLING on the pain of your loss. (i know the pain, believe me. i still have the pain because my H and i are still not "together.")<P>i wish you this hope, laura.... i don't know if your situation will be like mine; but i do know that your obsession with stopping him from leaving and being afraid to be without him are probably pushing him out the door. i hope you are not offended by my token of advice here. <P>have a good life... alone or with your husband. either way, YOU CAN!<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Mrs. Retep (edited May 18, 1999).]

\<p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]

\<p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]

He moved out yesterday. Today was my first morning ALONE. It was very hard I must say. Surely he knows that my first morning was going to be hard, but even though he thought he would call. I didn't answer even though he called 3 times. I just couldn't talk to him this morning. I later called him once I got my act together, he said he had doughnuts for the kids and it was for being so nice about helping him get his stuff together and buying some of the things that he needed. He just wanted to thank us. He says he didn't mean to make it harder. He still loves me, but doesn't want me tell him that I love him anymore, because he says it makes it too hard. Should I honor this request or just do what I feel? <P>I told him exactly this about this morning:<P>I know you want to be friendly and some day that will be ok. But right now it hurts to much to try to be your friend. I'm not saying that I want to be unfriendly, but I just can't go there yet. So in other words, you made the decision to leave. Call the kids every night if you like, cut the grass when you're suppose to, keep the kids when you're suppose to, do all the things you're suppose to do, but until you make a decision in your heart about us and whether or not you could ever find it in your heart to forgive me, don't torture me by trying to be too nice. There is a fine line during this initial time and I don't want you to be rude and mean, but I can't deal with being friends right now. Just give me some time Robert. Remember, this isn't hurting you like it is us.<P><BR>Does that sound mean? I think he understood. But I don't want to push him away, but now he says that he will only make contact to call the kids at bedtime until I let him know that I can handle more. Should I fake it and act strong really quick? Or can I take my time without pushing him away?<P>Help Again.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Laura W. (edited May 18, 1999).]

laura,<P>i know that it is very hard to be in the situation that you are in.... all i can tell you is what has happened with me and my H thus far:<P>when he moved out, i cried and he saw it.... but i pulled myself together and let him go without clinging to his shirt and crawling on the ground holding his legs. i showed some self-respect and didn't grovel, yet he still knew that i didn't want him to leave.<P>then i stopped trying to call him every day, stopped trying to reach out to him on a regular basis and started to realize that i can love myself and have many other supportive friends and relatives who can be there for me in my H's stead until (and if) things get better. (the next time you want to pick up the phone to cry for your H, call your mom, call your best friend, call your therapist, call the weather/time of day operator -- anyone but your H!)<P>the funniest thing is.... (and this is EXACTLY outlined in Dobson's book!) when i stopped calling, when i stopped begging, when i stopped being a sobbing child and started to take some control over my own life, my H got "curious".... then he began calling me. when he calls now, i am not aloof, am not desperate and act/sound as though i am happy (sometimes i actually AM!)... this has made a huge change in how my H and i are starting to communicate now. <P>when i am sad/in a "desperate" mood/starting "clinging" to my H, he withdraws -- YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE IT!!!! and when i am self-confident/self-assured/self-directed, he is very receptive to me and "us".... it is so amazing! <P>i cannot tell you that this has been easy. and i just know what i have experienced -- i can't say it'll be the same for you. but have faith!<P>dobson's advice is LOVING TOUGHNESS -- PLEASE read the book AGAIN! <P>"take your time" (as you say) by all means. it won't do anything but make your husband wonder how you are and maybe try to get in touch with you to tell you he still cares... at least that's my hope for you!<P>also, i must quote my lawyer (of all people, huh?! ) and tell you (as he told the crying/snivelling me) "stop the self-pity. you have to pick yourself up and show some self-respect." harsh words, but pretty good advice (considering the source, huh? ) again, have faith.... and you don't have to make any decisions about the whole rest of your life today, ok? <p>[This message has been edited by Mrs. Retep (edited May 18, 1999).]

You guys are helping me a lot. If anyone would like to email me at home please do, I need some supportive friends. llwise@conninc.com<P>I did tell him today not to ever forget that we love him and want him to come home. So should I leave it at that and not mention it again? Or at least wait a couple of months? Or what? He wants to speak to each other like we are friends. That is so hard. He said that being away from Sara (4 year old daughter) is killing him. Notice not me, just her. <P>What to do, what to do. If he calls the house to make arrangements to see the kids, how do I keep from telling him how much we miss him and love him?

I read Love Must Be Tough, can someone explain how to be lovingly tough without making them think you are pushing them away and closing the door on the relationship.

laura,<P>your H would have to be deaf and blind not to hear and see how much you love him and want him to come home.... please don't keep telling him. the purpose of loving toughness is to stop begging and allow nature to take its course. <P>i had a hard time, too, with the concept of not constantly reminding my H of how much i love him and want things to work out between us. i was afraid, as you are, that he would forget or that he would believe that, when i stopped begging, i no longer wanted to fix things or no longer loved him. <P>there were two mistakes i made along the way: (things you might want to avoid) <BR>1.

Your mistakes didn't show up !

Oh yeah, please tell me...what do you do if he is visiting the kids, tucks them in and wants to have sex? I still love him. Should I do it to satisfy him and suffer the emotional hurt after he leaves, or tell him no. What do you do????????

Continued message….. (sorry, I got kicked out somehow!)<P>When I first attempted loving toughness and stopped the begging, I made the mistake (MISTAKE #1) of being too cold and standoff-ish. My H then mistook my actions/words, telling me that he thought I stopped wanting to keep our marriage together. I have since learned (am still learning!) to be “detached” without being cold and unfeeling. When we talk, I try to be polite, friendly, kind…. But with self-confidence and self-respect. This is the person my H was attracted to and wanted to marry in the first place! The less I suggest we should get together, the more he suggests it! <P><BR>A husband and wife SHOULD talk to each other as though they are friends – they are supposed to be BEST friends!!!! So talk to him in that manner. I know it’s very hard…. But I can tell you that (for me) it got easier as time went on and the results were well worth it. When your H calls about custody issues, discuss custody issues. Be polite and kind… but don’t mention that you are pining away for him and that you miss him so much it hurts – even though that may indeed be true. There is no “perfect” way to do this loving toughness thing… and you will probably make mistakes along the way. I did and still do! But that’s the way life works – you’ll figure it out!<P>I don’t think it’s inappropriate, though, to end a conversation with “I love you.” Don’t be too sad or hurt if and when he doesn’t return the phrase, at least at first. Wait until he hangs up or walks away to shed any tears. Saying it to him – without a plead for a return sentiment or any pleading or coercion on your part – is your way of still letting him know you care, hence the “loving” in loving toughness.<P>I guess what we have to learn is that there is a difference between leaving the door open for your H and pushing/pulling him through it. Loving toughness is the former; begging, pleading, clinging, etc. is the latter. Do you see what I mean?<P>The best thing you will (hopefully) learn through this is that you have to love yourself and be able to take care of yourself. That doesn’t mean you don’t love your H, your family, etc and could do without them – that’s what I thought at first (MISTAKE #2). It just means that you can be comfortable with the person you are – someone you respect and take care of just as you do for the others you love. <P>Laura, trust in God (or whatever higher power you might believe in)…. If your marriage works out, it’s because it is meant to work out. Pray that’s what is meant to be and try to make yourself happy in the meantime! (I am trying to do the same!) My thoughts are with ya’! <P>And on the issue of sexual relations, I don’t know... My H and I have had some sexual encounters since our “break-up”… and the first one or two occurred before I had “detached” and was still clinging to him and begging him to stay. I felt as though I had to let him have sex with me in order to “keep him”. How crappy can a person feel? THAT is not an act of self-respect!!!! And I felt used and unloved afterwards. I also think that my H felt as though all he had gotten was physical release. I think he may have even felt guilty! <P>Since then, I have learned to show some self-respect (aren’t you tired of that word from me by now? ). My H actually invited me to his place last week and stopped our sexual encounter with the words, “I don’t want you to think that sex is all I’m after.” I was shocked and pleased! <P>I guess I would advise that you not get involved sexually with him until you feel that he is not just “using” you. Yes, you are his wife; but he is not treating you that way right now. I hope you try loving toughness and that changes start to occur with your H’s attitude towards you and his commitment to your marriage. Then you would be less troubled by this dilemma and feel less like you are being used – as I felt during the earlier encounters described above. I would suggest telling him (politely and without tears!!!) that sex with him right now would be too emotionally painful for you and that you would prefer not to right now. <P>I hope my thoughts help... <BR>

Laura,<P>If you've stated to your husband clearly that you want this marriage to be successful, and are willing to start doing the work necessary when he's willing to start (that would mean counseling, perhaps moving back), then I would cut off contact with him.<P>Be somewhere else when he needs to see the kids. Absolutely no sex---you shouldn't be meeting any of his needs while you're in this phase. You don't want to build up resentment (hate) for him over a long term separation---he may come to his senses in 6 months, but by that time you wouldn't want to try.<P>A complete, no-contact separation would be the best way to protect your love for him. I'd let him know this up-front: this isn't about punishing him, but it's about protecting your feelings for him. It will also have the effect of you not meeting any of his needs: that's good, because this is the decision he made by leaving you. He needs to realize exactly what it is he's missing.

I had my first face to face encounter with my husband since he has left. It was for about 15 minutes this morning. Everything was civil and nice and I was doing better today. I didn't bug him or ask him questions. I did tell him that he seemed happy. He didn't really confirm that feeling or deny it either. <P>Unfortunately I asked him if I could give him a peck and he said sure..............as long as you can do it without getting any false hope. Well, that hurt. But I didn't show that it hurt. I just gave him a quick peck on the lips and went on my merry way.<P>I just seem to think, no matter how much I really change, that he will not be back. Yes I still need to change for my own reasons and for my future anyway. But I was really hoping that the changes would make heim want to come home. I know it is too soon to tell, but he just seems to determined to be happy alone. <P>I think I just need some cheer leaders to keeping thinking positive. This morning was the first morning that I have not cried. That feels great. I know that either way I will be ok, but I want my husband back. We know each other so well. I don't want to get to know some one new.<P>[This message has been edited by Laura W. (edited May 21, 1999).]<P>I've already screwed up. I slept with my H knowing it would not make any difference. It makes it harder for me. He is definitely wanting distance though. He acts like my every small request (that he agreed to before leaving) it just a big pain in the a**. Like he wanted to leave his tools in my garage in exchange for cutting the grass. Well, the grass looks bad and according to him I just called to ***** at him. I just want the grass cut. <P>I miss him so much.but life has to go on. I still haven't been able to bring myself to take off my wedding rings. Would you take them off? What will that make him think? <p>[This message has been edited by Laura W. (edited May 24, 1999).]

I have more questions !! Day before yesterday my husband picked an arguement about how much time he was spending with the kids. Seems like he is constantly trying to pick arguements to justify his leaving. Always says...see this is why I left. But yesterday he came to visit the kids and started acting like a [censored] again and I plainly told him that I refuse to argue and if he can't treat me nice and be respectful while visiting the kids in my house, then he would need to take them somewhere else. He changed his tune a little while later. <P>When we argued the other day, he did inform me that no matter what changes I make for the better, that he would probably never come back anyway. Well, I told him that I was changing for me and my future and whether or not that included him would be up to him. <P>He said good because you need to change. He sounds so determined to be without me. Do you guys think that he could change his mind later down the road when he really does see the changes? Or do you think that when someone is so determined to make it, that nothing can budge their mindset. He is extremely stubborn.<P>I was hoping that God would somehow change his heart. He needs to be there for his family. But he has to be willing to go to marriage counseling to come back. I've already said this to him. It may chase him away, but we can't just go back to the way things were. Do I sound correct or just desparate?<P>Laura <p>[This message has been edited by Laura W. (edited May 26, 1999).]

hi, laura,<P>i know well how you feel right now. i was there, too. i have told my H before that unless he goes to counseling with me, things will never work out between the two of us. then i read more of dr. harley's work and realized that this attitude was the BIGGEST love buster that of all -- the most disrespectful judgement ever. i am learning SO MUCH about myself these days -- it's the only good things that is coming out of this whole bad situation! <P>anyway, i have learned that my H will learn and cooperate when i LET HIM DECIDE TO DO SO HIMSELF. i cannot force him to go to counseling with me (even though i KNOW that this would be to our advantage). but the more i push, the more he resists. when i stop pushing, he stops pulling away, probably thinking "thank God she finally backed off!" without my pushing, i think he feels less defensive -- a natural reaction when someone is trying to tell you "how you should be".<P>i agree with your thoughts "we cannot go back to the way things were." none of us in this type of situation can... it'll just get us back here in this same place later on. BUT we (us and our spouses) have to willingly agree -- each of us -- to change together. if you are willing to change and make your life better and you H is not, well.... maybe he should not be your H. you DON'T have to decide that right now, though!!!! (i know you don't want to hear that. i don't want others telling me that i should "find someone else" or "find someone better for me" either... i want the H i married! but the facts are the facts, i guess.)<P>laura, i hope this doesn't make you feel as though YOU are to blame for everything bad in your relationship. your H is practicing a lot of love busters, too -- telling you that you NEED to change (major disrespectful judgement) and saying "see, this is why i left." you need to be strong enough and have faith in yourself enough to let those things slide off of you like water off a duck's back. your H is obviously in a lot of pain and feeling as though he needs to hurt you to feel better. that is not right, but seems as though that is what he is doing. take heart that my H, too, made our marriage failure out to be MY fault, too. i remind you: it takes TWO to tangle (or tango, as the case may be!).<P>command respect, laura, by practicing respect for your H and walking away when your H is disrespectful to you. you don't need to be put down by someone you love very much -- it will only compromise your love for him. get some distance between yourself and him and take care of yourself -- take a long bath, a long walk, read a good book, etc., whatever makes you feel better about yourself. and try not to focus too much on changing anyone's mind. (easier said than done, i know.) loving toughness gets easier... try reading dobson's "give and take" and underline all the information in there that is a reflection of you and your life. that's how i am learning about myself and how i can do my part to make a marriage work -- whether it be this marriage or another one someday in my distant future. <P>God bless, laura...<P>p.s. -- i am still married -- at least on paper filed in some courthouse somewhere. i will keep my rings on until that changes. <P>p.s.s. -- what do you think, hollyann? anything additional that you learned in your experiences with your H?<p>[This message has been edited by Mrs. Retep (edited May 26, 1999).]

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Ok, Ok, Ok, I am doing better now. Last night was a day off for my husband, but it was a day that he wasn't suppose to spend with the kids. So i wondered if he would go through the day without calling. He didn't. He called my work to tell me that he was going to ship some equipment that he keeps in my garage. He knew he didn't have to call me for this. <P>Then last night after work I took my daughter shopping with me until about 9:00pm and then he had called while I was out to tell the kids goodnight. So I called him back about 9:30ish and let the kids tell him goodnight and my son hung up the phone and gave it to me. Well, he called right back to make sure that I had a camera for today (daughter graduating into kindergarten). I said yes and he said...you do know that I miss your companionship don't you? I said I guess so. Then he said, but I don't miss the arguing. I told him that I didn't miss that either, but he had to know that if he ever wanted to come back that things would be different and left it at that. I told him that we would see him tomorrow and that I had to go to bed. We said goodnight and I said I do still love you and he said he knows. No pressure. And he didn't act like I put any pressure on him. He asked if he could take the family out to dinner for celebration for my daughter tonight. I guess I'll go so I can start showing my wonderful new attitude toward life and my new strength that I have found through God. <P>Any suggestions anyone?

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Laura,<P>This will seem very obvious, but I'll point it out anyway:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>he said...you do know that I miss your companionship don't you? ... Then he said, but I don't miss the arguing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>When you spend time with him, be a great companion, and DON'T ARGUE. <P>He's giving you good insight to his needs and what he perceives as "lovebusters". You need to take those cues and act on them. But I'm with Holly Ann in that you should only have contact with him for as long as you want it. Make these visits short, sweet, pleasant. Leave him wanting more.

So when he invited us to dinner tonight, should I go or say that I am busy or what? I do want to go, but it leaves me feeling very empty once he goes to his new apartment. He invited me over to see it and I turned him down. I just said I really didn't need to see where he lives. the kids seem to like it. <P>So do you mean I should nto even tell him that I still love him? I only do it ocassionally. Not everytime he calls. But if you think I should stop all together I will. Because he knows. <P>Boy this is hard. And yes of course, there will be no arguements!! I am sick of that too. the no sex thing will be hard, but I will do my best for as long as I can.

Well, we went to graduation and then dinner. Everything was fine, but I felt real tense inside. Once home it was that lonely feeling again. So I called him to tell him that his mother had called and I told him that coming home was a little hard tonight. He said, "I know what you mean. After seeing Sara (our daughter), I cried all the way home." He told me that she is the innocent victim in all this and doesn't understand. But he won't come home for her. Which I guess I wouldn't want that anyway. <P>I told him that I was going to start honoring his request that I start living like he is never coming back. But I did tell him that I was still planning on keeping up my new changes and would pray that someday he would notice so our children would not have to grow up as we did. He said OK. But he won't say he loves me anymore because he says that it makes it harder. <P>I will continue to move on with my life, but there is a part of me that will always hope that he changes his mind, even though he says he won't. I guess that's love. But I can't stay in this stage anymore, it is driving me nuts. I am doing ok though. I've started keeping myself busy and doing things with friends and our kids. It is really strange not being with him. But I guess I'll get used to that. <P>Any comments. Yes I know I shouldn't have called. And I WILL do better.

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We had a long talk about the sex issue. He says that he feels that we are not using each other. He says that he still has feeling involved with it and misses me very much. He said that whether we had sex or not, that it would not affect his decision to come home. He said that while we are in the limbo stage, he thought it would be good if we took care of each other so that neither of us would be unfaithful while he makes his decision. You know that I had rather have sex every now and then rather than to see him turn to someone else eventually. No more family outings. I told him that. I also bought a kitchen table to replace the one that he took so that he could see that I was starting to live like he is not coming back. If the sex issue is not going to affect his decision, why shouldn't we do it every now and then. I am living my life as normal as possible and doing the loving toughness thing. I can't stand the thought of him being with someone else right now. Not that he would, but I don't want to take the chance.

He is going to be at my house tonight to visit the kids. I am going straight after work to have dinner with a friend and told him that I would be home around 8:30 so that he could go home. But I have a feeling he is going to want to hang around. I can tell he is not in any way decided what to do about us. But he does miss us and the companionship. Sleeping with him at this point doesn't set me back. So what to do???

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Please help me. This is only the beginning of the 4th week. I even feel lonely when he is around. I realize that things could get better and he could change his mind, but the way things are right now are killing me. I am so lonely sometimes. I always have the kids so I can't always hook up with a friend and go out to get things off my mind like he can.<BR> <BR>He was at my house on Thursday and I made the mistake of asking the dumb questin - "So do you have any new phone numbers for your little black book?" I really didn't think he would hestitate to say no, but he stumbled and finally said yes. And he gave the girl his car phone number. I listened to her voice on a message and she did say that she just met him the other night, so at least I know it is not an ongoing thing from the past. He has told me that he is not ready to be interested yet and has not slept with anyone else. He says he still loves me and isn't past that yet.<P>He spent the night at my house last night because we thought my daughter was still going to be sick and I couldn't miss work this morning. And of course I slept with him. My suggestion though.<P>He is just acting like a friend. I know I have to be his friend, but just being friends is too hard. You know.. he'll call up just to ask something and everything is just as if we were not married. But damn it we are. He is treating me like I am just his friend and nothing else to him. I guess I have to face the fact that for now that is all I am too him. He still loves me, but doesn't want that to be part of the feelings he shows. I know this is a long process and I need patience, but I feel like I am hurting so bad because my mind won't let me think he is coming back. <P>I am going to try to think positively that even he doesn't want me, I am going to be better and stronger because of this situation. But GOD... I want the Lord to bring him home to his family. I know I seem like a person who has no initiative right now, but this is so hard. <P>You know what? unfortunately I think I do a lot better when I don't see him except for the kids. I fear that pulling away will jeopardize what we have left, if anything. I feel like that will just make it easier for him to process his hurt and get over me because there is no interaction. Why do I have to make all these hard decisions? <P>With HIM, I really don't think that full fledged Tough Love Approach will work. I do act tough and loving. But I just can't seem to stop sleeping with him. I realize this will have no effect as to whether he comes back or not, or sleeps with someone else or not, but it feels good to be connected for that time. <P>Most of the time, I can deal with it without getting emotionally upset the next day. Sometimes it is a little harder. But I am learning to love myself and make some positive changes in my life that eventually will get me through this ordeal. One of the hardest is to learn not to NEED him. I want to learn to just love and want him, but to NOT NEED him. I think if I can master this, I will be just fine. It is just hard starting out. Maybe someday I will seem like an attractive enough package to him that he will want to come home, if not I will be for someone else someday when I am ready for that. <P>I think I am going to talk to Dr. Harley in depth so I can decide what to do about still sleeping with him. I am getting too many different advices to make a choice. It is very pleasant when it happens. As a matter of fact last night he told me what he misses the most is scrooching up to me to go to sleep, not sex. So we slept all snuggled up last night and I slept so much better, and so did he. <P>I don't know if that will ever happen again, but in some ways I hope it does. I realize this is going to be a very long road, but I'm one of the Jack Rabbit drivers who needs to learn how to slow down. <P>He has basically said he is done with hardly any chance of returning, but I refuse to give up on him until he files for divorce. I think if I learn how to be independent, that will make me more attractive to him. So I am trying really hard to learn to be alone. I am still doing counseling once a week and still remain with God ever since he has found me in this mess. I will never lose that again. This healing the hurt is a much longer process than I thought it would be.<P>Sorry so long this time.<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Laura W. (edited June 07, 1999).]

laura, <P>you seem so unhappy and so hurt. don't you want that to end? i know, i know.... you want to happy with your H again. i know that feeling. but.... do you want to keep putting yourself through this over and over again?<P>my therapist has told me many times: "sooner or later, you'll realize that banging your head against a wall just plain HURTS and you'll stop doing it." <P>no matter how much i know how truthful that statement is, i still feel the hurt. the difference now is that when i feel hurt, i realize that i am consciously ALLOWING someone to hurt me, that i have a choice to stop the immediate hurt by "acting, not REacting". <P>a part of your life is changing and you have no control over this person who is changing it, laura -- this is going to hurt whether you like it or not. you do, however, have control over yourself and whether you choose to act -- deal with the potential loss, heal yourself and focus on yourself -- rather than REact -- to all your husbands words and actions (which seem, for the most part, to conflict). <P>you wrote below something about "not having initiative" -- you are tired, laura. you are tired of holding up your end of the bargain and not knowing what to expect; you are tired of being there when your husband needs you, but not having him there when you need him. my advice (advice that you don't have to take and it may or may not work for you) is to just take a break from it all. explain to your husband that you can't play the game with him for a while -- that you need a "time-out" -- because it hurts. i think you need it to give you the opportunity to step back and gain back some strength -- to fight for him more or to allow your life to go on without him... <P>dr harley's advice would probably be better than mine, though... more experience. <P>anyway, you sound so exhausted, so unhappy, laura.... i wish for you to feel better. i'm glad you have faith and trust in God. don't forget, though, as garth brooks said once said "some of God's greatest gift are unanswered prayers." only God knows how it's all going to turn out. i pray for the best for you! <BR>

Laura, Listen to HollyANN.<BR>It sounds like good advice. Are you comfortable being intimate with your husband, or do you find yourself still lonely when you're that way? In other words, what is it costing you emotionally to give that part of yourself to him? Are you hoping it will make him change his mind? YOu mentioned the black book. How will it make you feel if he is "seeing" someone else, but coming to you to fullfill his needs? How much can you give before you start feeling drained and used?<P>Have you considered asking him to keep the kids so that you can go out with your friends?<P>I know this is painful right now, like a nightmare you keep hoping you'll wake up from.<P>I don't know you, but I know you deserve to be happy. Enjoy your life and give your babies all the love you can. A very good friend of mine keeps telling me that. <P>You know, maybe he will come back. But if you can be happy without him, imagine how happy you can be with him.<P>Good luck.

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thank you hollyann.... <P>that is good advice for all of us. God knows, i have my fair share of the same sorts of problems... but there is a fine line between loving someone enough to do anything for them and being taken advantage of.... at some time or another, a person has to decide where to draw the line. <P>let's all remember that when a man loves his W, he won't let anyone's actions -- let alone his own actions -- hurt her.

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Well, gee, Laura: look how many copies of my priceless advice you got (due to a server error)! <P>Get the message? :-)<P>God bless you, sweetie.

well, darn it! what's up with the server?<p>[This message has been edited by Mrs. Retep (edited June 08, 1999).]

server problems.... sorry...<p>[This message has been edited by Mrs. Retep (edited June 08, 1999).]

here we go again..... <p>[This message has been edited by Mrs. Retep (edited June 08, 1999).]

the server from hell! <p>[This message has been edited by Mrs. Retep (edited June 08, 1999).]

sorry....<p>[This message has been edited by Mrs. Retep (edited June 08, 1999).]

oops.... that goofy server! <p>[This message has been edited by Mrs. Retep (edited June 08, 1999).]

Ok guys. He came over last night and I played the cool wife who not needing him and only still in love with him. I dressed just as he has always wanted to see me and he said man...you look good. And then said if you went out looking like that, you could get any guy you wanted. I said..You're probably right, but I don't think I'm quite interested in that yet. <P>We talked a little, then watched the news and then all the sudden he let out this big...OH LAURA... I said what? Don't you want to be here? You can leave anytime you know. He said no, it's just the opposite. I do want to be here. Then he said there was a part of him that wanted not to be there either. Because I had hurt him. <P>I said yeah, I understand. Then I proceeded to tell him how well I was doing with my progress in not NEEDING him, and only loving him. I said that things were getting a lot easier as I make this transition. I think this worried him a little. But it does feel really good not to be so NEEDY. <P>He didn't say the unsual....I still love you, you know. He came out and said...I love you Laura, I just don't know after getting the guts up to leave you, if I can get the guts up to come back. Not exactly in those words, but that is what he meant. I told him that whatever he decided I would be A-OK, because of the new strengths that I found from this ordeal. I will make it just fine. I told him that sometimes when a person gets left, that it turns them into such a better person, that it is almost a blessing in disguise. <P>He did say that he has noticed my attitude changes and he thought I was doing very well. His problem is he is scared to come back because he says I am human and would relapse and either Hit or Lie to him again. I know this would not happen because of the new attitude I have. First of all, I don't want to argue. That reduces conflict, so no hitting out of anger. The lying is simple...just don't do it. If money is an issue, then keep it separate. If not separate, then he can be in control of that one issue because I know that after going through this he understands where I am coming from when I say I just wanted to eat lunch with friends.<P>Before he left, of course I initiated sex. Then when it was time to leave he just laid and talked lightly with me about his job and other light conversation things. Then when he was leaving he kissed me and said I love you Laura, but I need some time to think about this. I am scared to come back and everything go back the way it was. I assured him that my part would be different and he would have to decide what to do on his own, because I wasn't going to pressure him, because I would be OK either way. I told him that there were some nice perks to independence and some lonely issues too. I told him the only thing that I would hate about a not coming back decision was that I would not want to be alone for the rest of my life and I hated to bring someone else in the house someday to do the daily raising of our daughter. I told him I really think he ought to be the one to raise her. I got a little teary eyed on that one, but that was OK. <P>One thing for sure, he knows that I progressing and will someday be over him. Even if I still sleep with him, I can still progress. Everyone says if it doesn't hurt you and you're not feeling used, then you have to go with your own feelings. So right now at this point, that is what I am doing. <P>Anyone want to tell me how dumb I sound??? <P><p>[This message has been edited by Laura W. (edited June 08, 1999).]

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Hi Laura -- I've spent this morning reading all these posts and agonizing in my heart with you. One thing that I have not heard mentioned, however, is forgiveness. I so understand that you want your husband and your marriage back. But what you do not want is the past hurts and mistakes you made held over your head if and when he does return. In your heart of hearts, you know you have changed. The only way it will ever go forward is if the slate is wiped clean and you are given the opportunity to live your life without being held captive by the past. I pray that your husband decides to return to his loving wife and children. But please -- do not allow this to happen if, each and every time there is a confrontation, the past mistakes are thrown in your face like salt in a wound. I made a few very serious mistakes in my marriage -- those mistakes are used against me time and time again. Whenever I raise my voice ... whenever I have a strong difference of opinion ... whenever I get emotional about anything. I know I have moved forward -- but each time these issues are thrown at me, it's as though I've received a kick to the stomach, and I'm knocked down to my lowest point. Do not let this happen to you. You are regaining strength and confidence in yourself. I pray for your happiness; I pray for your husband and your kids. Remember this, God loves you more than any of us can possibly fathom. He will sustain you through this. <P>------------------<BR>LSR

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Ok...tell me what you think now. He spent the night last night and things were very nice as usual. But now he wants to spend the night tonight. He said he enjoyed the snuggling very much and missed it greatly.<P>Like I've said before, I don't get those feelings of being used. My only problem is I miss him when he leaves again. It doesn't take me long to bounce back because as I've said, I am doing much better at not NEEDING him. He knows this too. I do mean that I can really tell that he WANTS to be there. I know why he scared. I guess I would be scared too. I mean he is afraid that I will relapse because I AM human. <P>He has to get over those fears in order to be able to want to come home. Praying is my only way to battle that. I have asked God to enlighten him as to my changes. he has started noticing too.<P>Gotta go for now.

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WEll, I've done it now. WE'll just have to see what happens. I thought I could handle the feelings that come along with him spending the entire night at my house. I couldn't. It's like watching him leave again. So I made a decision last night. The hardest decision that I've ever made in my life. I wrote him a letter and read it to him in person. Some of you will recognize some of the wording as coming from these posts. I couldn't think of the right words sometimes and you guys always said it so well. So here is the letter that I read him last night. <P><BR>Robert,<BR>You say you are scared of coming home because of my track record. Please, let me say this to you:<P>I know some things now that I didn't before and though it was a painful lesson, I'm a better person because of it. If you want to benefit in a renewed marriage, that would be wonderful. If you don't, well, from God I have finally found the strength to go on. I’m not saying that I’m closing the door yet, but I am moving on. I never believed that I would have the strength to let go, but I guess that time has come. <P>It hurts me too much to try to be your wife in all ways when you’re not even certain if you want to be my husband. If you decide to work on this marriage, we will, all aspects of it, but you have made the decision to separate in your heart. I love you, but I am giving you your wish to be separate. I will still pray for you and maybe someday you will realize that our family could be wonderful in its renewed state. But unfortunately, right now the ball is in your court on that decision. <P>I’m not pushing you away, we can still be friends, but the time has come for me to stop acting and pretending like we are still together in my mind when you don’t even know what you want. I have no idea, and I’m sure that you don’t either, about how long it would ever take you to come to a final decision, but I’m not going through this emotional limbo that I had been putting myself through anymore. I’m not saying that you did this to me, I did the limbo thing to myself, but I am also putting a stop to it myself. <P>Just know that I finally got to that point of not “NEEDING” you and now I see that it is necessary for me to detach myself from you so that I don’t ruin the love I have left for you. I don’t want to resent you. (in more plain words, but sounds too harsh….I don’t want to get into the habit of playing the weekday wife, while you play the weekend single man, while you are making a decision.) When you make a decision about what to do, just let me know. But this is the way things have to be for now.<P>I was so afraid of saying these things to you at the risk of pushing you away into someone else’s arms, but I prayed about it and God let me know that I have to let go. And if you run to someone else’s arms, then He has a better plan for me and the kids. He wants me to trust him and that is what I have to do. God Bless You Robert in all that do and may he protect you while you work.<P>Laura<P><BR>I love you with all my heart, but I just can’t put myself through this right now. If some day you decide you would like to do something fun with me, just call, I would be honored to have a date with you. <P>Ok, his reaction was a first like he thought I was trying to close the door. I told him that wasn't true, but he had to go out and make his own decision about what to do. I was giving him the space he so desparately thought he needed. Then he said....well, whatever, I'll be just fine no matter what you decide to do..... I told him that he knows what I want and that is for him to come home and he is the one who has a decision to make, not me. I now have to trust God to bring him home if that is his will for me.<p>[This message has been edited by Laura W. (edited June 10, 1999).]

\<p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]

\<p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]

Yes I do feel a little better. I definitely have some self respect out of it. And about the dating.....he would not ask for a long time anyway. I know you told me not to add anything, but I did also email this. I felt it was very important to me.<P>I need to make my changes for the better and everything, but I feel like I was focusing too much on you and our relationship. So I had to stop what I was doing so I could continue to focus on myself. I do not want to take the focus off of making myself a better person and I really feel that trying so hard with you was stealing some of those intentions away from me. As I've said, I am still a work in progress and I still need to keep progressing. So I must focus on myself and what needs to be done in my life so that I would not repeat my mistakes again with anyone. I gave US to God.... so God, my counselor and I could work on ME.<P><BR>I hope that did not blow it, but I felt it was important to say hey, I am thinking of ME for a change.

Well, I guess I have hit the anger stage. I was very plain with my husband yesterday about needing to detach and he showed up at my house yesterday to say hello to our daughter. <P>I asked him what he was doing there and he said he came by to see Sara. I told him that he must not have understood when I said that I need to detach. I said if you are here I am going to want to ask you questions about that girl that you have her phone number. So I proceeded to ask him if he was going out with her last night and he said no. He said..you are pushing and digging your own grave by doing this you know....<P>I told him that was the reason I needed to emotionally detach myself from this situation. I am driving myself and you crazy. So you need to leave because this is hurting me. What I really felt like saying but didn't was.....you know Robert...maybe you are the one digging a grave.

doesn't this stuff just suck, laura! i, too, have reached an anger stage -- not the first one in this process, but a very strong one. <P>my ballpark experience wednesday entailed more of the same mistreatment of me by my H and i won't take it anymore. i talked with my therapist about it last night and she said that this is all perfectly normal... it doesn't feel normal, though, does it? no one deserves this kind of mental anguish, huh? i, too, want to NOT live my life waiting for my H to make a decision about what he wants...<P>we'll both have to let go of the anger eventually, laura.... but until then, i refuse to be mistreated and won't submit myself to it. i am preparing a letter similar to yours and will most likely be trying to get a substitute softball scorekeeper for the rest of the season.<P>i am reading an interesting book now about the craziness of divorce which states that you'll have to go through a kind of divorce even if you stay together with your spouse in marriage -- you have divorce out of your old destructive relationship patterns together. it's an intersting (quick-read) book, a suggestion by my therapist which i rejected until now because it talks about divorce and i wanted so badly not to think about that possibility.. check it out at the library if you are interested... "crazy time: surviving divorce and building a new life" by abigail trafford.<P>God bless, laura.... keep us informed of your situation so we can all be here for each other in the tough times.... <P>see ya'

I am going to tell this like a story so it can be followed without being confused. My husband and children email each other. Mostly the 5 year old girl.<P>I checked email this morning and Robert had sent and email to Sara as usual, and as usual added a snide remark about me in the email. Then I got to work and he had answered some of my emails from yesterday about where to meet him to exchange Sara in the morning so I can go shopping, those emails came in to me at 2:00am according to the time mark on them.<P>So first I emailed him and told him if he could not email Sara without lashing out at me, then not to email her. (that was from home)<P>Then I emailed him from work and told him to stop sending me emails in the middle of the night because I didn't want to know what time he came home.<P>He emailed back and said...<BR>I didn't go anywhere last night, so there.<P>I emailed back and said....<BR>I don't care what you did, don't send me emails in the middle of the night,<BR>because my imagination thinks what it wants to. <P>He emailed and said....<BR>your imagination is what gets you into trouble. you need to stop.<P>Then my last email was....<BR>That is why I need to detach. Because we are both going to end up hating each other<BR>because of my imagination. So please just let me detach. I will do just fine<BR>no matter what you eventually decide to do with your life.<P><BR>His final email was....<BR>Fine.<P><BR>So now maybe he knows what it feels like for someone you love so much to be telling you to leave them alone.

Guys I am starting a new topic because this one is getting too long and needs to go away.<P>Please post under my new one.

Laura, what are you THINKING???? WHY WHY WHY are you still having sex with him? WHY WHY WHY are you still giving away pieces of yourself for next to nothing in return? You will NEVER get him back that way. He is LOSING respect for you!!!! All he is seeing is that he doesn't have to do much to get you OR to keep you if he decides-IF IF IF he decides-to come back. How is that for a formula for future misery? Lady, you're virtually guaranteeing it!<P>Also, about the hitting. This was wrong, wrong, wrong, and he had EVERY right to leave you for that. When a man hits a woman, he's SCUM. Why are we so forgiving of women hitting men? No, they can't typically do the damage that a man can, that much is true. But hitting should never enter into a relationship...it only spells disaster. Not only did you abuse him physically, you did NOTHING for his male self-esteem and ego-think about it...you hit and he STAYED!!! Of course the stakes are higher for him to come back, especially if anyone else KNOWS you hit and he stayed. He'd be viewed as a wimp, and rightly so. I'd let it go if I were you, get some counseling, find out why you have this tendency towards physical violence, DO something about it, and for God's sake don't get involved with anyone until you get it under control! You also have to think of the example you're setting for your children. IS this the example of a relationship you want to set?