This is the same person that has the topic "Help, I am losing him" He went to see my counselor with me yesterday and he just reconfirmed to her that he was serious about leaving and that there was only about a 1 in 1000 chance that he would ever come back. He doesn't believe I can change and even if I do, he says that if he is happy, he still won't come back. I know that sounds harsh and yes it breaks my heart into pieces, but it still can't take away the fact that I love him. Other than being controlling with money, he was a great husband. Always spent time with the kids and me, instead of the boys at work. Always loving. I was the one that was argumentive and unresponsive to his needs. But now that he is saying that there is hardly a chance that he will come back, if you were in my shoes, would you just move on and get on with your life. I have two children 4 and half and 11. I am almost 35 years old and all this emotional stress is wearing me completely out. I really don't want to lose him forever, but I seem to have no control over that anyway. Somedays I don't feel like I am going to survive another day. This is killing me. Any advice of how to handle this would be appreciated. <p>[This message has been edited by Laura W. (edited June 11, 1999).]

Laura,<P>Would you be able to convince your husband to invest 3-6 months working on these probelms before he moved on with divorce? I'd suggest that you try this with counseling through MarriageBuilders---I think that you would find yourself making some positive progress within a couple months. <P>You sound like you're in pretty "bad" shape emotionally. You should see a doctor for antidepressants---you'll need to be strong for your kids. My best advice to you to get your husband to stay is to listen to him and start meeting these needs (and eliminating the "lovebusters"). It's going to take time---if he won't agree on delaying his leaving, perhaps he would delay the divorce to give you a chance to work on your side of the marriage.

\<p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]

P.S. Laura: I second K's reply.

Ok guys, I bought the book "Love Must be Tough". My husband has already stated that he is leaving as soon as his apartment is finished being built. Probably somewhere between the 10th and 15th of May. There IS NO CHANGING HIS MIND about this part. Yes, at first I have gone through the begging and crying and pathetic crap, but now I have started acting more independent and not crying around him. I plan to use the time we have left to meet his needs and try to show him how much I love him (without pushing). He has agreed that this part will be fine (what man wouldn't). But he said it will not change his mind about leaving. So he leaves. What next? I obviously am going to read the book. Let him go without crying or begging. He knows that I am not closing the door because he knows that I don't want the marriage to end. We do have children. He is eight years younger than me. He adopted my son who is 11 and we have a daughter that is about to turn 5. He has always been a family type man, but he has NEVER lived on his own. He went straight from his mother to me. He is a police officer, so he has been taught how to control your emotions quite well. I really feel that once he gets out and gets over the initial missing me and the kids, that he is so stubborn that he will stay gone. I pray that this doesn't happen, but it, according to him, is likely. My chances here are about 1 in 10,000 or more. I plan to keep acting tough and independent and I have recruited friends to call, so that I won't call him. I am going to leave him alone. He knows my hearts desire and I guess this is the only thing that I can do. I can't keep asking him to come home. How long should I wait after he leaves to make any contact with him about how he is feeling? Or should I wait until he initiates the conversation himself? Our wedding anniversary is May 22. Should I send him a poem about being gone? Look under poems, I posted it there.

\<p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]

I guess I sound so pathetic, but I don't do that in front of him. I think that my only chance is to leave him alone and see if he misses his family. It is so hard to finally face the fact that I have no control over his decision. But thanks for all the advice and I will leave him alone when he moves out. I just feel so helpless. He is buying bunk beds for the kids at his place and everything. It just seems that he is making things so permanent. Yes, I know I can live without him and will survive, but I still love him and have been with only him for the past 10 years. I don't know how to not be married. It scares me to think that I may have to start all over again. But as Dobson said, I think he has lost a lot of respect for me and I guess the ball is in his court now. I really am going to die when he moves out on Monday the 17th. I don't have many friends that I can call because I have only lived where I live for 8 months. I guess I'm lucky to have my two children at home with me to help keep me busy, but I am going to miss him soooooooooooooo bad. If there is anyone in this forum who wants to exchange emails to help support each other, please let me know by emailing me at llwise@duke-energy.com

\<P><BR> <p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]

Well, it's me again. Would someone please tell me how to get the thoughts of my spouse being with someone else out of my mind. Remember he says we are done. So when he leaves, he is free. So I think about him touching someone else the same way he touches me and it drives me crazy. I still love him and would die if I find out he sleeps with someone else. He has voiced his concerns about all the diseases that are out there and I'm sure he'd be a safe sexer, but I don't want him to do it at all. I guess I just have to face up to the facts. Let him go, if he loves me he'll come back. Easier said than done. I don't have a busy busy job, so I have a lot of time to let my mind wonder. Please help. Praying helps, but I can't pray every minute of every day. I want my family back together someday and if that doesn't happen, what's next?

Ok, I believe that God has a reason for everything. My husband was suppose to move out on Monday the 17th of May, but the apartments that were being built were delayed by another week. So instead of making him leave, I am letting him stay. It really hurts though, because even though I have omitted all the lovebusters and we are still sleeping together and getting along ok, he doesn't think the change will be permanent. <P>Remember I lied to him about money several times throughout our marriage and also hit him when I was angry. Not all the time, but the last time it had been almost a year since I had hit him. He told me it was over because I had lied to him about money again and that is when I hit him. <P>I want everyone to realize that I had a real insecure past. I met my husband and felt like he was going to treat me the same way everyone else did. So everytime I got angry I would hit. He would threaten to leave, but would always stay. It was a lot in the beginning, but has gotten better and better. <P>I know that this crisis has turned me back to God and I know that I can make the changes, but he doesn't believe that because the last time I turned to God too, but didn't stay with God. I don't know how to explain the difference this time, but I know it is permanent. I guess the reality of someone really leaving is enough to say...hey, I have problems that need to be resolved and obviously I can't do that by myself. <P>God knows that I would love just one more chance to show my husband that our marriage could be the way it should have been all along. But no matter how things are between now and the time he moves out....HE IS STILL MOVING OUT. There is NOTHING I can do to change his mind. <P>I go to counseling once a week, separation support group, and talk to anyone who will listen. I feel like I am going to explode with tears. I have been taking Prozac for about 2 weeks now and it seems to help take the edge off the crying all the time. <P>I read Dobson's "Love Must Be Tough" in two days flat. I emailed my husband a nice tough, but loving letter that said that I want this marriage and he is leaving, so when he gets out it is up to him to decide what is more important to him and that I wanted him to be happy no matter what. That was very hard. He said it is very nice to know that the door is open incase he feels like he made a mistake. But he also stated that him coming back was a slim chance.<P>My daughter who is about to turn 5 prays every night for Jesus to help us bring her daddy back home. He hears these prays and says that he can not let them affect his decision. That his issues are with me, not her. I realize I have broken the trust in our marriage, but trust can be rebuilt. Would someone like to give me some pointers on how to act once he leaves. Like when he comes over to visit the kids....what can I do to make him notice the changes that I am going through? I love him and want more than anything for him to come back once he leaves. I realize that it may take a while (probably more than 6 months with his attitude), but I know how not to push...but just want to be sure I do all the right things so he will want to come home. He says he still loves me, so there just has to be a glimmer of hope for me. <P>I am just so scared of building up that hope and then he won't return and I'll have to start this pain all over again. Please I need more advice.

Laura:<P>My suggestions are:<P>1. Change your behavior (don't defend it to your husband, just change it). You've got a good start there.<P>2. Demonstrate love and caring for him when he gives you the opportunity, at least for the next several months.<P>I'm not a big fan of the "tough-love" approach at this point of your relationship---it's my belief that you should constantly demonstrate your "new" behaviors and show him that you do care about the marriage. It sounds like the way your letter was worded, you'll still have contact with him, so that's good (you can't force him to be with you). Especially try to encourage family interactions at this point (especially after he leaves). It's very important for your daughter no matter what, and it also provides you an opportunity to show him that you are working on these changes for the better.<P>You're attending counseling now---is it MARRIAGE COUNSELING? You should have that as your primary focus right now---you need to learn the behaviors and rules for a successful marriage. These will help you in your healing if you do end in divorce, so it won't be a waste of time.

Well, he moves out today. how am I going to cope? I feel like I am going to die. I need help. I feel like I don't know which way to turn, what to say or anything. Everything seems so confusing. I am taking Prozac, so that helps a little, but nothing takes away this pain that feels like someone is ripping your heart right out of your chest. I don't know if he will ever be back. I guess God is the only one who knows that. Everyone keeps saying, just focus on yourself now. But that is so hard. I am not going to call him or anything, but my insides want to. I know that will just push him away further. But I can't quit thinking about it at all. I try to stay busy, but no matter what I am doing, I am thinking about it. It is taking over my life. Is he coming back? Is he not coming back? These questions keep racing through my head. Please someone tell me that there is a decent chance that he will come back. Or will he not? I feel crazy. I want some one to talk to that will just sit and listen to me cry. But I have no one to do that to. <P>I know this is just the first day, but I already feel like it is too long. How will I make it through all these long days?

Also, what do you do if your spouse is visiting the kids and wants to have sex? Do you or don't you? Which is worse. Thinking he will go somewhere else for it if you don't do it, OR him thinking he can live where he is and still get that most important need met and not even need to come back. What a decision. I don't know what to do.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention. You guys do remember that I lied to him about money several times in our marriage and hit him when I was angry. A lot in the beginning of our marriage, but less and less as I felt more secure. The last time I hit him, it had been a year since I had hit him and I only hithim because he told me we were finished and that hurt me. Yes, I lied about getting a refund of some money. But when you are faced with losing someone you love, you can and will change your ways. But he thinks I can't change because of all the times I told him that I would and didn't. He always threatened to leave, but never did. But I've tried to convince him when someone is faced with that reality, they can and do want to change. He still has love for me, but not enough to stay. he is very very close to our daughter who is about to turn 5 years old. <BR> <BR>Does anyone think that someone would chance going through that again? <P>Do you think he would want to come back when he thinks I can't change?<P>I know that I can change. But really now, there is no way to show someone who doesn't live with you that you won't hit them or lie to them. I am not going to bug him when he leaves, but I don't want him to put me totally out of his mind. Could he possibly do this? Are men capable of getting past all those feelings and just moving on even though they still love someone ? <P>Does anyone here think I should have hope. He says he is pretty sure that he is not coming back and today when he moved his stuff I told him that I hoped he was happy with his decision and he said he was. He wanted to know if I was being sarcastic, but I wasn't. I do hope that he isn't happy with his decision later, but for now, I want him to do what he needs to do to want to come home. <P>Would any of you go back to this relationship? He seems so determined to be happy without me. It scares me a lot. I pray for him everyday. Ok, I'll stop going on and on, just someone tell me that there is hope. I feel like there is none. But I want him to come home. I need him and the children need him.

Laura W.,<P>all i can tell you, laura, is that when i read "love must be tough," i said the same thing that you did: "how can i possibly let him go? and will he know how much i don't want him to go (unless i tell him over and over again)?" when he moved out, it seemed so PERMANENT -- it still does.... but in reading dobson's advice, i came to realize that i was not helping the situation by thinking and voicing those thoughts.... i was actually making things worse! -- because my H could SEE these thoughts whenever he looked at my face, whenever he looked into my eyes. (after all, your spouse knows you better than anyone else, right?) and knowing this, he still had the "upperhand" and, feeling trapped, HAD to leave. <P>since he left, though, i have been trying VERY HARD not to let these thoughts dominate my life. i have gone on living day by day, praying, but not dwelling on the problems with my marriage. and an amazing thing has occurred. i don't know what it means yet, but i have been invited to his "new place" and we have begun some (emphasis on SOME) talking about our failing marriage. most times we have been just talking about life, television shows, what we did today, how work has been -- actually having real-life conversations with your spouse, what a concept!<P>what i'm saying, laura, is that we all know -- and your husband definitely knows -- how hurt you are and how much you don't want your marriage to end..... but it seems as though you are PUSHING your H out the door instead of letting him go.... a fine line, i know. and God knows that i didn't do everything "right" when my H was leaving; but in letting him go, i think i may have actually encouraged him to come back. only time will tell at this point.<P>but there is hope, laura. just start living now.... just start focusing on your day-to-day stuff... what to buy at the grocery store this week, what to wear to work today, reading that good novel you have been wanting to read, rearranging the furniture in your livingroom, anything but DWELLING on the pain of your loss. (i know the pain, believe me. i still have the pain because my H and i are still not "together.")<P>i wish you this hope, laura.... i don't know if your situation will be like mine; but i do know that your obsession with stopping him from leaving and being afraid to be without him are probably pushing him out the door. i hope you are not offended by my token of advice here. <P>have a good life... alone or with your husband. either way, YOU CAN!<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Mrs. Retep (edited May 18, 1999).]

\<p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]

\<p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]

He moved out yesterday. Today was my first morning ALONE. It was very hard I must say. Surely he knows that my first morning was going to be hard, but even though he thought he would call. I didn't answer even though he called 3 times. I just couldn't talk to him this morning. I later called him once I got my act together, he said he had doughnuts for the kids and it was for being so nice about helping him get his stuff together and buying some of the things that he needed. He just wanted to thank us. He says he didn't mean to make it harder. He still loves me, but doesn't want me tell him that I love him anymore, because he says it makes it too hard. Should I honor this request or just do what I feel? <P>I told him exactly this about this morning:<P>I know you want to be friendly and some day that will be ok. But right now it hurts to much to try to be your friend. I'm not saying that I want to be unfriendly, but I just can't go there yet. So in other words, you made the decision to leave. Call the kids every night if you like, cut the grass when you're suppose to, keep the kids when you're suppose to, do all the things you're suppose to do, but until you make a decision in your heart about us and whether or not you could ever find it in your heart to forgive me, don't torture me by trying to be too nice. There is a fine line during this initial time and I don't want you to be rude and mean, but I can't deal with being friends right now. Just give me some time Robert. Remember, this isn't hurting you like it is us.<P><BR>Does that sound mean? I think he understood. But I don't want to push him away, but now he says that he will only make contact to call the kids at bedtime until I let him know that I can handle more. Should I fake it and act strong really quick? Or can I take my time without pushing him away?<P>Help Again.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Laura W. (edited May 18, 1999).]

laura,<P>i know that it is very hard to be in the situation that you are in.... all i can tell you is what has happened with me and my H thus far:<P>when he moved out, i cried and he saw it.... but i pulled myself together and let him go without clinging to his shirt and crawling on the ground holding his legs. i showed some self-respect and didn't grovel, yet he still knew that i didn't want him to leave.<P>then i stopped trying to call him every day, stopped trying to reach out to him on a regular basis and started to realize that i can love myself and have many other supportive friends and relatives who can be there for me in my H's stead until (and if) things get better. (the next time you want to pick up the phone to cry for your H, call your mom, call your best friend, call your therapist, call the weather/time of day operator -- anyone but your H!)<P>the funniest thing is.... (and this is EXACTLY outlined in Dobson's book!) when i stopped calling, when i stopped begging, when i stopped being a sobbing child and started to take some control over my own life, my H got "curious".... then he began calling me. when he calls now, i am not aloof, am not desperate and act/sound as though i am happy (sometimes i actually AM!)... this has made a huge change in how my H and i are starting to communicate now. <P>when i am sad/in a "desperate" mood/starting "clinging" to my H, he withdraws -- YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE IT!!!! and when i am self-confident/self-assured/self-directed, he is very receptive to me and "us".... it is so amazing! <P>i cannot tell you that this has been easy. and i just know what i have experienced -- i can't say it'll be the same for you. but have faith!<P>dobson's advice is LOVING TOUGHNESS -- PLEASE read the book AGAIN! <P>"take your time" (as you say) by all means. it won't do anything but make your husband wonder how you are and maybe try to get in touch with you to tell you he still cares... at least that's my hope for you!<P>also, i must quote my lawyer (of all people, huh?! ) and tell you (as he told the crying/snivelling me) "stop the self-pity. you have to pick yourself up and show some self-respect." harsh words, but pretty good advice (considering the source, huh? ) again, have faith.... and you don't have to make any decisions about the whole rest of your life today, ok? <p>[This message has been edited by Mrs. Retep (edited May 18, 1999).]

You guys are helping me a lot. If anyone would like to email me at home please do, I need some supportive friends. llwise@conninc.com<P>I did tell him today not to ever forget that we love him and want him to come home. So should I leave it at that and not mention it again? Or at least wait a couple of months? Or what? He wants to speak to each other like we are friends. That is so hard. He said that being away from Sara (4 year old daughter) is killing him. Notice not me, just her. <P>What to do, what to do. If he calls the house to make arrangements to see the kids, how do I keep from telling him how much we miss him and love him?