Hi, M!<BR>Sorry for not getting back to you sooner, but I don't go to the MB site on the weekends. It's the only time my H is home, and our time together is so limited that I avoid using the computer. Also...I just want you to know that even though people can be in stages of recovery, strange things can still happen. It'll save me a lot of time and typing if you read my post at this thread: <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/004197.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/004197.html</A> <P>Now, then, I am so sorry for the disasterous happenings in your situation and am praying you were able to keep things together over the weekend. I mean, keep things together with yourself, M. Also, I don't know about PA, but in NY where I'm from, papers are served, not mailed. So, be on the lookout for a process server.<P>Sometimes, a marriage needs to undergo the worst case scenario in order to be saved. This is just my own humble opinion, but after reading through countless letters here on the MB site, this seems to happen a lot more than anyone would think. Remember that old saying, "If you love something, set it free. If it doesn't come back, it was never really yours." ? I believe that, M.<P>Uh oh...Mom's coming downstairs for breakfast. I'll have to continue this later. Just hang in there, M, and know that you will make it.<P>Later...<BR>Winny<BR>

Win, Yesterday my W, soon to be ex, sat down and divvied everything up. I read though a Christian <BR>web site and found a couple of interesting tidbits of advice and came to the realiztion...to show her I <BR>truly love her I'll let her go and be happy. She is obviously not happy here, I'm convincing to myself that <BR>it isn't fair for her to be so miserable. From today on I'll practice my newly instated Plan A, just stop <BR>accusing her of infidelity(though I won't stop my suspicions), stop saying things that I know are going to <BR>have more of a negative impact on me rather than her, I want to stop being spiteful to everyone who <BR>tells me "it just wasn't meant to be I guess." This week, because of the wife's "eagerness" we have to <BR>make our settlement agreement legal. Goo cluck finding a lawyer. I had an appointment today for an <BR>initial consultation but the lawyer canceled. My W wants to move out so bad when i show my anger or <BR>dislike concerning divorce.. I wan to spend at least the last three months together...guess I need to find <BR>control. <P>This is just unbelievable, unthinkable though comparable to the worst feeling I could ever expect to <BR>endure. I know it'll take time until I feel ready again...but after having been loved for so long, not <BR>worrying about rejection or ridicule or insecurities...going cold turkey seems impossible. Everywhere I <BR>go, I see couples, babies, businesses you name it that remind me of her and I and the future I <BR>expected. Even our friends seem to bring my sorrow out, my wife just holds her head up high and <BR>doesn't show a sign.<P>Well Win, this board has been a good source of salvation I appreciate your time. i'll continue to post <BR>maybe the info will help someone else in the future. I have to laugh, if this all worked out i was going to <BR>invite you and your H to my vow renewal ceromony...<P>Have a great day, now yu have two posts to reply toooooooo.<P>M

M,<BR>My new friend, I can almost feel your pain. In fact, vestiges of my own pain resurfaced this past w/e, and it humbled me. I hope that nothing I've said has caused you any undue pain or extra worry, and if so, I know that you know it was not intentional. Soft apologies (just in case)hugs to you, {{{M}}}<P>I know what you mean re: friends who tell you "it's all for the best." Sure--so EASY for them to say, not being in your shoes. In time, those little well-intended but oh so painful remarks will not bother you as much, but it's going to take time. I developed a stock phrase for such remarks. I smile and tell them, "OK..when you're in my shoes for a bit, come back and tell me how you feel." That ususally stops that little 'thread' right there. As for the coupleness you witness all around you, I know how hard that is. Just keep in mind that it's normal to feel these feelings and in time, they, too, will soften to a dull roar. It's not much, but it does help.<P>I applaud your new strategy and inner resolve, M. You know what's funny? At one point during our own negotiaions, my H said a very similar thing to me. He said," But, if you truly love me, wouldn't you want to see me happy?" My answer was, OF COURSE!, and..."I will not stand in your way. If this is what you truly want [i.e., to break up the marriage and leave me], then by all means, how could I stand in your way? I love you that much to let you go."<P>M, as surely as the sky is blue today, that seemed to really matter to him. It was shortly after that that we seemed to get back on track. The "change" started within ME, not him and not our marriage. I had to get myself to that place that you are at now when you let go and let God. (how'd you like that phrase?! It's saved me time and again). <P>Although it hurt like hell, and I thought for sure I was losing my mind, I realized something: truth is as it IS, not as we wish it to be. I had to consiously ban all thoughts of past holidays, special life's events and all of that from my mind for a while. As tempting as it was to dwell on them, and think of them, I realized that they were only bringing me additional pain. So, I would replace them with a humerous movie, or a good book, or any one of a dozen or so hobbies that I enjoy. In time, the thoughts started not being so painful, but as I said in my post in the other forum, it's only been 5 months since we've been in recovery. We have a long way to go, but I am going there as a whole new person. I'm wiser now, and a lot stronger and feel I've grown as a person and as a woman. <P>I am going to be a guest speaker at a big "family day" for a local support group for Cancer Survivors next month. From what I hear, it's a huge event here in my city. Anyway, I'm speaking as a caregiver, and as a victim of my own bone ailment. One of the things I am going to touch on is how a personal crisis such as marriage crashing/burning can actually make one stronger, and in some cases, a better person. Just when I was so down, along came that phone call and invitation, M. See how God works? He never closes one door that He doesn't open another. For His reasons, I am supposed to continue on helping others, and now I get the chance to do it 'publically.' Perhaps this is a part of the healing process, and I urge you to (1) take good care of yourself and (2) look for the next open door. It will come, M. Just have faith and look upwards, always.<P>Lots of hugs and prayers, as always,<BR>Winny <P>"You won't see an open door if you are constantly looking down at the ground." <BR>smile! God loves you! <P><p>[This message has been edited by Winnytoo (edited August 20, 2001).]

This topic is on Fire! <P>Have you read any of the good Dr's books? Make the marriage come alive again! you can do it! Hopefully she is not having an affair. that would not help matters, but there are lots of ways you can wake things up. READ READ READ! you don't need counseling, you need a book and to do some soul searching with your wife. I am sure you will remember why you both married. I am sure you have a lot more together than you would have apart.

Jenn,<BR>Thanks for the encouragement but you know the old saying you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. My wife is gone, no if's, and's or buttttts about it. "I've" read just about everything, been to a counselor, church and so forth. She will not make an attempt...her words "there is nothing to fix" has her convinced. I just wasn't what she wanted I guess...Some small things in our past (nothing abusive, just decisions based a male's mentality) keep popping up, but they were issue of then not now...Ok, so I didn't buy her flowers once a week or month or year, but I gave her love, a marriage, security and so forth. I bought with here a horse a family business a house a big ol truck. I convinced myself these items were sufficient compared to flowers. Her family thinks I'm the greatest...well they used to.*laugh*<P>But anyway, I'll take your encouragement...maybe I'll try again with her...but maybe I'll just push her further away.<P>GFB <BR>

Hi, M!<BR>First, thanks for the great pic's of your horse! What a lovely animal--he is a true beauty!! Also, it was neat seeing you and your W, too. Oh..before I forget, please send email to my AVNgal@yahoo.com account from now on. I reserve my AOL one for official support group business. Thanks!<P>M, I have something to ask you. The other man in that one photo...who is he? Is he the "OM"? If he is, I have something to tell you that I know will be upsetting to you and please forgive me beforehand...BUT...I need to say this to you. From another female's perspective, that man is quite movie-star handsome. Wow! I don't know who he is, but I do know that if I were single, I'd ask to meet him (providing he was single, too!). LOL! sorry...I don't mean to minimize your own good looks, but if he IS the OM, I can understand why your W might be attracted to him. He seems to exude that almost western-cowboy type of charm, rugged yet refined handsomeness of the face at the same time. He's almost 'too pretty', if that makes any sense! <P>M, honestly...if a man like that were to pay attention to ANY female I KNOW her heart would skip a beat or two, she'd feel giddy, and very flattered. He actually reminds me of my own H in style and body build, and I know that I am wildly attracted to my H! When he's not at his preppy job, he dresses much the same way the guy in that photo does, and it just turns me ON!<P>To top it all off, didn't you say this man is younger than you? M, really...IF this is that other guy, I'd have to say that your wife would be totally DEAD if she didn't feel flattered/excited to receive attention from him. And you say they spend hours and hours together???? Holy cow!!<P>LOL! I just had a thought!! Is this guy YOU, or are you the taller one standing by J's side? (wow! talk about putting my foot in my mouth, eh??!) The way you captioned the pic, I read it as first your W, then you, then "(name)". <P>All I'm trying to say is if this man is the OM, watch out, M. <still fanning myself here!! ) It's funny how 'eye candy' can be so appealing, isn't it? Lovely to look at, really beautiful/handsome people have an edge over the rest of us in getting to attract others. The proof is in getting to know them, and no matter HOW good looking this guy is, he has NO business trying to woo another man's wife! <P>I'm so sorry if this post upsets you, M, and you know that. I just wanted to give you another woman's take on this, and I'm being honest with my reactions. Just a word to the wise......<P>Hugs,<BR>Winny<P>

"Movie Star handsome, almost too pretty,ruggedness.."Thanks for flattering me Winn. The people on the picture are my wife far (left), our vietnam era buddy Jack (middle) and I'm to the far right..I hope you were talking about me, at least from what I gathered you were. If I had a picture of the other man I'd send it but I purged our photo envelopes, he wasn't in any of them. They guy in the middle is around <BR>50 years old...I'm 28, W 26..the suspected other man is 30 or so.<P>Here is a good one for me!!! My W needed to take a sabbatical for two days, tonight and tomorrow evening...So naturally I came home and checked out what she took. Well our lingerie is still here though the short robe that goes with it is gone...her new dress she bought to attend a dinner date with old friends(mutual friends) is gone..why wear the same dress twice with our friends.. I'm going on <BR>snoop alert tonight. I'll find out which hotel she is in and later I'll set up post (in the parking lot) hoping not to be seen. I also know where this OM lives, going there also...guess I have to keep myself from stalking charges.<P>I really want to confront her regarding her lingerie and dress, but should I...I hope you write back today...somehow your words may give me the strength I need not to stick my foot in my mouth...I also just installed a Keystroke recorder on my puter...I'm getting deep. if she has no qualms about leaving, just prancing around like everything is fine, I'm going to nail her. (I wish I could nail her)*laugh* PA adultery law gives the betrayed 75 pct of everything...even her horsey! <P>I don't know why i do this to myself, I can and can't trust her. I feel like her friends know more than what I know, and I hope it isn't how good this OM is....it all makes my heart pound so heard and my stomach turn...Maybe i need companionship with OW?? I'm stupid!*laugh*<P>One more thing, my counselor called my insurance provider(for payment purposes)...my ins provider spoke with my doctors at work and recommended I go for a psych eval because I was undergoing psychotherapy. the doctors came at me yesterday with everything excluding straight jackets. Whew!<P>Don't forget to smell the roses today!<BR>M<P>

M!!<BR>OMG!! LOLOLOL!! All I have to say NOW is, is your wife crazy?! YES, I guess I embarrassed myself but good--that WAS you in the photo, then! At least, it must have done your self esteem some good, huh? And..it was totally innocent on my part, to boot! You really are a very handsome and virile-looking man.<P>OK..now, you are preparing for what I came to call "Phase Two". That's my watered-down version for "Snooping." And, it's OK in my book (as it is in a lot of others', including Dr. Harley!) It is our right as potential or proven betrayed spouses to know, for once and for all, the truth. After all, if a relationship isn't built on TRUTH, then it's not much of a relationship..right??<P>I think you are right on track here, M. The missing dress and lingerie robe are two good potential clues. If you are going to plant yourself in the parking lot of the hotel, can you borrow a friend's car..or rent one for the evening? Also, do NOT forget to take a camera with you with good quality highspeed film. "A picture is worth a thousand words." 'Nuff said!<P>Look at it this way: the BEST case scenario is that you discover nothing adulterous whatsoever is going on. The worst case is that there is, indeed, hankypanky between W and some OM. Regardless of either way, your W seems to have made it clear to you that she is not interested in the marriage at this point, and in that case, you still have a good chance of getting her back. <P>I wish you luck and DEFINITELY, please keep us updated! I'd love to know myself at this point what's going on! <P>Hugs and prayers..and smiles and good thoughts, <BR>Winny

M..<BR>I forgot to answer your most important question!! If it were me, I would NOT mention anything at all to your W about the missing clothes or anything else about tonight.<P>The more a WS finds out what his/her spouse knows, the more they can hide things and become even more secretive.<P>Just keep as cool and calm as you can, don't even mention her little soiree tonight--and do what needs to be done on your end of things.<P>Good luck! (hearing strains of the old "Mission Impossible" theme in my head now! )<P>Winny

Good morning every Winn,<BR>Thanks again for boosting my self esteem, LOL. For some reason my wife is looking beyond that. She used to tell me how much she loved my lips, though now doesn't want any part of them now.<P>Well last night turned up negative results, I went to the hotel saw our truck (no clues inside) and didn't recognize any other vehicle (My professional job description basically mirrors that of a detective, I think I know what to look for), so off to the farm I went to see if the OM may have left his truck there and went with my wife, node! Back to the hotel, I even walked around a bit stayed for half hour and left so In all I took around three hours to snoop, and didn't locate anything...But today is another day, I leave for work tomorrow at 4:30AM, I'll make it a point to swing by again. the only funny this that came out of this is i *69 the phone when I got home, someone had called at <BR>10:30PM from a number that I can't trace(we never get calls after 10)...hotel room maybe...maybe she saw me...****! Who ever it was they didn't leave a msg. But I have an alibi, Dairy Queen. LOL<P>I was thinking, maybe she took the lingerie robe for comfort vs. passion while she stayed in the hotel?? I won't mention it unless I find it washed and hung in the closet. It pisses me off, she'll be returning home and I 'll be at work. I'm sure she'll wash everything...time to disable the washer. As for getting her back, we have a settlement agreement written up for a lawyer to review..on Monday.<BR>My wife is being head strong, she will not look back and continues to say and believe "there is nothing to fix."<P>What were you implying by "Regardless of either way, your W seems to have made it clear to you that she is not interested in the marriage at this point, and in that case, you still have a good chance of getting her back."<P>So long as men can breathe, or eyes can see,<BR>So long lives this, and this gives life to thee.<P>M<P><BR>

Good morning every Winn,<BR>Thanks again for boosting my self esteem, LOL. For some reason my wife is looking beyond that. She used to tell me how much she loved my lips, though now doesn't want any part of them now.<P>Well last night turned up negative results, I went to the hotel saw our truck (no clues inside) and didn't recognize any other vehicle (My professional job description basically mirrors that of a detective, I think I know what to look for), so off to the farm I went to see if the OM may have left his truck there and went with my wife, node! Back to the hotel, I even walked around a bit stayed for half hour and left so In all I took around three hours to snoop, and didn't locate anything...But today is another day, I leave for work tomorrow at 4:30AM, I'll make it a point to swing by again. the only funny this that came out of this is i *69 the phone when I got home, someone had called at <BR>10:30PM from a number that I can't trace(we never get calls after 10)...hotel room maybe...maybe she saw me...****! Who ever it was they didn't leave a msg. But I have an alibi, Dairy Queen. LOL<P>I was thinking, maybe she took the lingerie robe for comfort vs. passion while she stayed in the hotel?? I won't mention it unless I find it washed and hung in the closet. It pisses me off, she'll be returning home and I 'll be at work. I'm sure she'll wash everything...time to disable the washer. As for getting her back, we have a settlement agreement written up for a lawyer to review..on Monday.<BR>My wife is being head strong, she will not look back and continues to say and believe "there is nothing to fix."<P>What were you implying by "Regardless of either way, your W seems to have made it clear to you that she is not interested in the marriage at this point, and in that case, you still have a good chance of getting her back."<P>So long as men can breathe, or eyes can see,<BR>So long lives this, and this gives life to thee.<P>M<P><BR>

Hi, M...<BR>Frst, to answer your question, what I meant was that as long as you two are still together, there is still a chance you can win her back. Of course, now that I read your newest post re: Monday/settlement agreement, that narrows down the time limit a bit. It was a confusing statment that I made, I know, and I'm sorry--it wasn't such a good day for me yesterday, either. <P>Now, as for that phone call. I found out that when someone calls you by a phone card, the number can't be traced back via *69. You get a message kind of like "..the number is not in our calling area." Ditto for a phone booth, except the message is shortened to "..can't be reached by this method." If the calling number is unlisted, or if the caller has it blocked, you hear "...the number is marked as Private and cannot be reached by this method." I found this out myself by trial and error. Just out of curiosity,what, exactly, was the message (if any) you got when you tried *69? If it was "out of this calling area", look for a phone card in her stuff.<P>As for your sojourn last night, all it proved was that she was there, but not with who, or if alone. I think you are right in suspecting that "someone" was checking up on your whereabouts by that phone call. Of course, it might have been a wrong number, but after a while when too many of these coincidences happen, you can't help but wonder. This is just your first, so of course, there is no way to prove what it was all about.<P>Just a thought, here: does your W have a fav. restaurant or nightclub type of spot? You might want to check that out, too, tonight. Otherwise, why did she bring the dress? Also, does the restaurant have a bar/dining room? Check those, too. <P>As for the lingerie coat for "comfort"..yeah, right! I have a few of those, too, and they are anything BUT comfortable. They're chllly, the lacey edges are itchy and if someone comes to the door, they don't provide any modesty at all. Comfort clothes would be pajamas, a nightgown, a nice terry robe, or just a simple T-shirt/nightwear getup thing.<P>Did you mean the OM's truck was or wasn't at the stable? Who's to say she didn't provide transportation for him? There are so many variables, M, that it can drive one crazy. Did you use your own car or someone else's? Maybe tonight you might want to think about a different vehicle.<P>Also, did you know you can call the hotel and ask if "Mrs. So and So" is regiestered there, and they will tell you? This way, if she used her real name, fine. If she used a fake name, you'll know that, too, and have a GOOD question for her when she gets home. Also, ask if there is a Mr/Mrs. "OM's Name" there. Since you have PI experience, or close to it, I'm sure you thought of these suggestions already. <P>Good luck tonight and I hope you find out one way or the other what is or is not going on.<P>Hugs...<BR>Winny<P>PS..<BR>Did you know a kleenex or two left behind in the washer(or paper towel, dampened and crumpled up first) would make a mess of the laundry?? (The best part is that it also shows up in the dryer lint trap)Lint all OVER the place and all over the clothes! Just keep your own dirty duds hidden for the next day or so.

Winn,<BR>I just spoke to the W, she said she did not attempt to call, she also said the other evening she got a solicitor at 9:30PM...I told her it was a 973 area code??? and they woke me up at 10:30PM...As for what it said when I called back, "the mailbox has not been setup yet." I just found it odd to receive a "wrong number" from the so called right area code, ya know. Something else that was funny, I parked on the back side of the hotel, opposite of where our truck was...where do you think her room was, lol. Right where I parked and she said she was sitting outside for a bit, whew, I got lucky!<P>As for the OM's truck, it was not at either location so in turn, I was glad.<P>I broke down on the phone with her again asking her to please give "us" more thought, this was after she made sure an appointment was set with the attorney. W is standing strong, it's killing me. I really wish she was in a fog. I may write her a long, loving letter today touching on our "Good" past but it seems this may be more wasted time on my part?? I just feel like trash...how can you devote so much time to a relationship and throw it away like trash??<P>As for the robe, it isn't the frilly kind. Just silky, thigh long...I think it's purpose os to conceal the teddy...yee haw! Sorry, got ahead of myself. I also "semi confirmed" what the dress was for...one of our mutual friends may meet her for dinner tonight. The W does not have a fav restaurant /night spot, just the race track.<P>I'm going to call the hotel now...from a pay phone whith a card..I'll keep you posted. This is pretty juicey huh? LOL.<P>I think I'm just being a fool. What went on in you relationship the other day?<P>M...

Hi, M,<BR>Well, it seems like you have a real mystery with the phone call! It's highly unlikely that a solicitor would call at that hour. Their fav. time is around dinner time, when most folks are home from work. That "mailbox isn't set up yet" message sounds very much like something that a hotel would offer thru it's phone service or lines, doesn't it? I mean, considering all of the high tech things available today, and with business people on the road and staying in motels/hotels, it sounds like a logcial service for them to offer.<P>As for my own situation, things are com' si-com' sa, which is Italian for 'so-so.' Nothing earth shattering going on, but at least we are still in the talking mode. This is worlds ahead of where we were just a few short months ago! Then, it was either dead silence or screaming and yelling (mostly from him to me), and terrible outbursts. Then again, we are apart 6 out of 7 days a week, so who is to say what it would be like if we saw each other every day? Deep in my heart, I Know that he had some kind of EA or special attachment to the OW but he stedafastly denies it. I just found too many things ('evidence') that prove otherwise. Of course, ALL of these things can be easily explained away with logical explanations, but like I told you before, there is a LIMIT to how many coincidences can happen to a person! I still say that actions speak louder than words and his actions proved to me that he was interested in someone else for a while there. Women somehow just "know." I think men do, too, but are more afraid to admit it (why that is, I dont' know).<P>In a couple of weeks, I have a life-changing event that is going to take place. I can't talk about it here, but I can tell you that that event will make a huge change in our lives, one I hope that is for the better. When all is said and done, I'll tell you more about it, but for now, just please say a little prayer or two for me, ok? Thanks! He told me a while back that depending on the outcome of this event, he will make 'his decision' whether or not to continue our marriage. Of course, I would HOPE that it would be love that motivates him and nothing else, but we'll just have to wait and see.<P>I am so sorry for your pain and upset at this time, M. I really do think that you are doing the right thing by trying to find out the truth for once and for all. Your W seems determined to end your marriage, sadly enough, but please don't lose hope. Keep on talking to her and don't forget to be good to yourself, too, along the way. Good luck tonight...<P>Hugs,<BR>Winny

Winn, <BR>I checked the hotel this morning, negative results form the plain sight perspective, our truck was there no other cars looked familure...Not sure if leaving my wife's Lingerie hanger on my side of the closet was such a hot idea either?? As per your last response you recommended that I not do anything concerning the lingerie...but I felt compelled and stupid??? I also hid the detergent, for some reason when I went to trip the breaker for the washer I smacked my head into the wall, figured someone was trying to tell me something so I just hid the detergent. I bet she'll go and buy more detergent so she can cleanse her clothes....wanna bet?<P>Tomorrow I'll check my log on my home computer. I'm not sure if I even want to. See, I know this OM doesn't have a computer so I know there aren't little "I love you's" floating around...I'll let you know what I find.<P>I took the time to speak with some mutual friends last night...My buddy basically recommended I just let her go due her eagerness to leave and lack of desire to rebuild the relationship, lack of attraction to me and so forth...He also said God may be telling me, my W isn't the one for me. My reply was, maybe this is a test to prove my love for her...have faith in her, "walk on the water??" I think she is my soul mate, just lost in the fog. My W really needs to look at what has been brought to my attention, my desire and willingness to expand the apparent love I hold for her...I keep accusing her of infidelity, but I'm also trying to hold on to her with all my might! God I'm getting so confused and upset...she wants to head into the attorney's office on Monday...then she's going to file...............sigh!<P>Met another Christian yesterday...she made me want to crawl in a corner and cry...she said all you need to do is ask god for help. I want help NOW, lol, to fix my relationship.....<P>Have a good day. I sthis site slow on you puter or what???<P>M <BR>

Met another Christian yesterday...she made me want to crawl in a corner and cry...she said all you need to do is ask god for help. I want help NOW, lol, to fix my relationship.....<P>Have a good day. I sthis site slow on you puter or what???<P>M [/b][/QUOTE]<P>Hi, M!<BR>Yep...it seems the entire Web has slowed down somewhat this week, especially this site!<P>I don't mean to giggle, but I had to when I read you bumped your head trying to flip that ole breaker switch! Hope you didn't get hurt--and yes, "someone" was trying to tell you something! You are distracted by your emotions and that's just when accidents can happen, so please BE CAREFUL! Slow down a bit--take some of those deep breaths--and don't get hurt again.<P>M, honestly, I have to agree w/your buddy in some ways. There comes a point in any situation when you just can't DO anymore than you've already done, and if you don't get the results you hoped for, then that is the time to "Let go and let God." You are asking Him for help, but you have to learn to be patient and let Him work on things in HIS time, not yours. Only God can see the bigger picture, M, we never can no matter how hard we try. Your buddy may be right: perhaps this woman is not the one God would have you be with. How do you find out for sure? You LET GO, after doing all that you can do. <P>Believe me, new friend, I KNOW how difficult this is!! I feel exactly like you do about my own spouse. To me, we are the perfect match, the ideal couple. He is my soulmate, and no one could love or understand him the way that I do and so forth and so on. However....something happened in his life that began to change his mind about us. As mere humans, we forget that we are NEVER totally in control of things. Not EVER. Oh, we can delude ourselves into thinking we can control thigns, but all God has to do is blink one eye, and our plans go down the drain! <P>I came to the conclusion this past year that what I needed to do was to start asking GOD "What is it that YOU want for me?" When I was ready to put my own thoughts, feelings and wants aside and truly rely and depend on God's judgement, truly remarkable things started to happen. You can't hand a problem over to Him one moment and then take it back the next, thinking He isn't doing such a good job! That's not faith or trust in Him, and all you really do is muck things up a little bit longer. <P>M, really, I know you love your W and she knows it, too and SO DOES GOD. Now, you've done all that you can mortally do, so step back and let Him take over. That means, let her make her own decsions at this time, react not with hate or spite, and ask to be willing to be willing to forgive her in case she was unfaithful. Your quite forebearance, and love and emotional support will sooner or later capture her attention. Just wait until she hits the first rough spot! In the meantime, you never know who you may meet along your journey, but if you are tied to someone who doesn't want to be with you, then you won't be free to explore new possibilites.<P>Sure, lot's of people walk away from a marriage thinking that things are going to be so much better off. Then, Reality 101 rises up and smacks them in the face! THAT's the time you'll get your chance to show her what true love really is. <P>BE PATIENT, my friend! Truth always wins out in the end, and asking God to help you means (1) facing the truth and (2) showing faith in Him to help you, no matter how long it takes.<P>I wish you peace this weekend, M! Enjoy the beauty of Nature this w/e, and put thoughts of Monday out of your head. There is no gurantee there is even going to BE a Monday, so don't waste your time and energy worrying about it now. Take things one day, and even one moment at a time, and know that God hears you and He will help you if you only let Him.<P>Hugs always,<BR>Winny <P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Winnytoo (edited August 24, 2001).]

M,<BR>How did it go? Update, please! Praying for you...<P>Winny

Winny, I wasn't sure if you posted on weekends?? Well, as you put it, my stakeouts proved that she was at the hotel, she had Italian(food), I checked out our truck the only funny thing I found was the seat was slightly reclined, the only person who reclines the seat, at least from what i saw is this OM or OA(other *******). I still can't get over the skimpy robe stuff. I placed the hanger for it on my side of <BR>the closet, I know she saw, she put the robe back but neglected to say anything. As for the e-mails, nothing great except the following which was written last month: "I know Mark's dying inside and I feel so numb to all of it. Even at the counselor he was crying and I was composed. He even told the counselor that I wasn't the same, that if it had been months or a year earlier I would have been balling <BR>my eyes out too. He said he can see the distance in my eyes, even when I'm trying. He really is a good person and tries the best that he knows how. but it's not enough for me. Emotionally nor mentally and for the past few months physically. The first two are really my biggest issues and <BR>have been for quite some time. He deserves better and so do I." Now for the past few months I've worked a 24hr on and 48 hr off schedule. This was the busiest season for search and rescue. I had a whole mess of stress no support from the wife and she turns around and says he didn't suit me <BR>physically either, now I feel less endoewd, (I know what she means, I'm playing mindgames with myself). Our love life was hindered due to my schedule.........<P>I think I've lost her, yesterday I was so mad because she didn't ask me about the hanger. For some reason I slept in the other room also last night. Should I ignore her, she won't let me close to her? My mind is becoming very fogged it's hard to focus on anything. I wanted to go to church this morning but the traffic is horrendous on the weekends and the church is an hour away. Guess I should find a new <BR>one!<P>I wish i had peace this weekend, my MIL was over last night, i presume my wife gave the family heirloom (wedding ring) back to her mother. I've never been so upset or so angry. So me people say "at least you don't have any kids," this is true but it's like say give up, you don't have anything to loose.<P>She looked so different after not seeing her for four days(I worked two 24hr shifts, she took two days off). wasn't sure if I saw a sexually pleased women(from her vacation), my wife or my ex-wife to be.I haven't thought about Monday, like it says in the bible there is enough to worry about today...<P>It's beautiful out isn't it?<P>Have a great day Winn, i hope all is well with you!<BR>M

Shucks Win, <BR>Too late I had to ask her why she took it, the robe that is.."so I didn't have to walk around a hotel <BR>room naked....i didn't feel like carrying a wet terry robe around." BS! So tonight she's going to the <BR>races with the presumed OM, "she says i work with these horses too...I'd like to see the race." BS! <BR>We're a lost cause in her mind so I should just accept it and move the heck on...I know when we're <BR>separated/divorced she'll turn to him...I keep reverting back to me being the OM...be what she <BR>wants...too late this OA(*******) already has her attention, he is what she want's whether they're <BR>involved or not, whether I like it or not. <P>I guess this was the storm that tests the faithfulness, it's been a horrible down poor and my <BR>relationship just got washed away.<P>I'll be out enjoying my day alone, again.<BR>Take it light Win!<BR>M

Hi, M..<BR>Don't beat yourself up for asking her about the robe. You had every right to ask, especially AFTER the fact. If you had asked before she went away, it could have been a whole lot uglier. I agree: "BS". I just had a thought hit me here: you know who the "bs" is good for?? Just the bull, in my opinion. He gets to get rid of it and the rest of the world gets to deal with the mess! Just trying to get a smile on your face, kiddo! <P>Hey, M. How come YOU can't go with her to the races tonight? Are you working and can't go? Or, are you just not invited? I can't help it, it must be the little devil in me, but if it were me and I had nothing else to do, I'd GO to the d*** race! Why don't you go, anyway, even 'undercover', so to speak and quietly observe? <P>I'm so sorry about that email of hers you found. At least, she is aware of your pain, but like you said in so many words, it doesn't seem to matter to her. All she is thinking of right now is HERSELF and what's important to her. Hmmmm...where have I heard phrases like this before?? OH...yeah! The MB forums on infidelity and other marital troubles. <P>The seat in the truck was moved?? Now, HERE is where you start tucking away these little facts. Your wife didn't impress me as particularly tall in that photo, so one would have to ask why the seat was moved at all. Did you mean the seat back was reclined a bit? Uh oh...unless your W has a bad back and the trip to the hotel was a very long trip, I'd have to really wonder about that, too. <P>As for my own w/e...it's very strange. As I mentioned, a truly big event is just on the immediate horizon for me (and I had hoped for my H, too), and we are very awkward right now with one another. He's in a world of pain from a very bad back, which doesn't help matters any, and he is working too darned hard too many hours a week. Hopefully, after said "event", this will change for him and for us, M. I am just worried and anxious as to whether or not he is going to stay and try to make our marriage work or not. Will let you know more on this by mid Sept.<P>OK...I'm enjoying the day by myself, too, as he's at work again. He works every Sunday, but we'll see each other tonight when he gets home. <P>Off to the Y for a swim and some exercise now....<P>Hugs and prayers,<BR>Winny <p>[This message has been edited by Winnytoo (edited August 26, 2001).]