Mornin' Winny,<BR>Well I'll agree with the BS same as horse sh*t. Concerning the races, my wife is helping this JOA([censored] other *******) behind the scenes. It's an area only horse trainers and assistants can go. If you're not scheduled to be an assistant or your horse is nott racing, you can't get back there. wagering and the racing commission have pretty good security. So in short I would not be able to see her at all. But that wasn't my point(for her), my point was I love to se the horses run. If she was heading over there with this jerk, she could've asked if I'd like to go and they could drop me off at the gate...see what I mean, just a little thought that would made me feel better. Instead she came home from work(sweaty, hard work), took a shower doused herself with perfume and mascara then went to the races where she was just going to get nasty again?? I guess she had to smell good for him...She <BR>has a tack trunk at the barn (under lock and key) with only one key. This trunk issued to store important stuff for racing and what ever else she wants. This is my next objective...some how I have to get a copy of her key?????? it's not as easy as you think, her eyes are on them 24/7. Somehow I'll <BR>do it! I should've followed her last night to where he picked her up at...stupid me. All I envisioned is her hopping in his truck planting one right on the kisser....we used to do this and now I'm referring back <BR>to things her and I did...I can see them doing.<P>I guess it's normal for her to feel selfish, after all she is accusing me of being that way for quite a while, but she laid it on the line and I've learned how to expand to be a better husband. Monday has come, we're off to speak to an attorney this afternoon...she is showing no mercy at all. All I want is <BR>my wife back, for some stupid reason I can accept the fact, if indeed she had an affair, but only if she admits to it. If I find out she's been lying and hiding things, my heart is telling me to nail her and take it all! I wish something would smack her inthe ad to make think, "once M was the cat's [censored], maybe he still is??? Why do I want to leave him, is he just not for me or maybe I'm just being one sided and selfish...he has so much support, faith, love and great passsion for me and in what I'm doing, he had a very hard summer at work and I wasn't very supportive..."<P>The passenger side seat was moved(sorry) but he is the only person who sits in it this way??<P>Now you have my interest with this "truly big event" of yours, are the two of you looking fwd to it??<P>Have great day, great temp outside!!<P>M<p>[This message has been edited by Goinforbroke (edited August 27, 2001).]

Hey, M!<BR>I was happy to see your post today; I've been praying for you all weekend long. And, I'm still praying for you for this afternoon and hope that you are able to keep your cool as best as you can. Not that I expect you'd do something rash or anything--just praying for some type of inner peace for you. As for my 'big event', I'll tell you more about it when it's over. I don't want to jinx it by telling about it beforehand. I'll know more in the next couple of weeks....<P>So, "his" seat was moved? Hmmm...I think I would have to ask her about that, if I were you. Make it generic, like, "I'm wondering why the seat was moved?" See what her response is. <P>M, it now seems to me that you have come to the conclusion that she is, indeed, attracted to this OM. (getting all primped just to go back and get dirty all over again?? Uh huh...right!) And, I could not agree w/you more: I am at that place right now with my H, too. IF he had an A, I am more than willing to forgive and move on with us. The hard part is getting the WS to even admit to it, much less desire to talk about it. All I know for sure is that the Truth will ALWAYS come out, eventually. It may take weeks, months or even years, but sooner or later, someone will talk.....some thing will be found...some action will happen and all of the 'proof' anyone would ever need is right there for all to see. <P>As for that trunk, here is a simple test: how about just coming out and asking her if you can see what's inside? IF she has nothing to hide, she should be happy to show you. IF she has ANY feelings left at all for you, she should be willing to allay your fears and show you. If she is being truly honest with you in her reasons for wanting to go, then she should gladly show you what's inside. After all, in a marriage, there should be NO secrets from one another, and you two are STILL legally married. Try these things on her and see what her reaction is. Dollars to doughnuts, she won't let you see the contents. Just a hunch--and I hope to goodness I'm wrong. but, like I said, "been there..done that, too" and have the scars to prove it.<P>I came home unexpectedly on Sat. and found my H with my cell phone. He looked very sheepish and said he was bringing it to me (I was at the hospital visiting my mom). Now, I could have raised the roof and a real ruckus for sure, but I didn't. Why? Because I KNOW I have done nothing wrong and have nothing whatsoever to hide. He is worried that I am fooling around on HIM now, sort of as a grudge match. Of course, I see it as he is feeling very guilty for what HE did, and is trying to manufacture a reason to be mad at me, sort of to justify his own behavior of the recent past. You know what?? I'm still not 100% positive he has stopped all contact with the OW, but there is truly no way I can find out short of calling her. And, would she be honest with me?? Nooooo! Of course not! So, I go along each day doing my Plan A and trusting/praying to God that things will work out for the best in the end. I have come a very long way, M, to the point of acceptance. That is, I will accept whatever the outcome is and move on with my life. Sure, it will be painful if I lose him for good, but it that's the way he wants it, (much like your W), then I can't force him to love me and/or want me.<P>I see you as in a very similar situation, M. My heart aches for you and for me, too, because we did NOT deserve this! Whatever problems that were there should have been talked out long before they got to this stage. We should have been given the chance to set wrongs right--and NO ONE deserves to be cheated on! I think it is one of the most dastardly and cowardly things a spouse can do to his/her partner.<P>Please, M, if you need to yell, scream, shout, vent or even show a positive emotions or two after your meeting today, come here and let it all out. These folks on this site are really wonderful and they have helped me a lot.<P>Talk to you later....good luck!<BR>Winny

Well Win, Yelling, venting...how about gagging...7 years of decisons based solely on our future together...just thrown away like trash, women are evil...then again so are men?<BR> <BR>I went and retained an attorney yesterday...but fired her today, lol. We thought an attorney had to notarize a settlement agreement...I guess not and I'm not paying the usual ten thousand dollar for a ****ty divorce. On our way down to the attorney's I love busted, begged you name it, I feel so belittled by her. I'm becoming so mixed in emotions to the point of bipolarism. At one minute I'm saying how much I love her the next how much I hate her. She is being truly selfish! Last night I brought up the storm analogy she said well I guess our marriage wasn't strong enough. She told her mother yesterday "she's walking no mater what."<P>I wish she could write her side of the story, so your opinion could be unbiased. Maybe you would side with her, who knows??Another thing I wanted to touch on was her wedding ring, she's not wearing it and I can't figure out why. The band on her finger was my promise to her, to which I still hold true. Maybe it's one less thing for her to think about while she's hoping in the sack with this [censored]. I really wish I could find out where this *******s GF lived, I'd shove a picture of me in her car, maybe he'd be the one to find it, ahh sounds like a plan, LOL. I'm debating on how long I can set up surveillance at the farm on any given day... I'd have to start very early and finish late, where do I park??? LOL<P>One more bad idea for myself, I've got a friend here in my development who just recently separated...she attempted to rekindle the relationship with her ex but had no luck...I'm going to start picking her brain. She's a nurse downtown and has many opportunities open for people to volunteer in the hospital...I'm curious to see what type of response my wife would give me if one evening she asked what I was doing??? and I reply, going out to do some volunteer work with this woman you don't know...but don't worry I didn't iron my shirt, shave and spray on some good stink(cologne) for her, it for the people who need me. Now I'm just being immature...Look I only have 21 hours of work left. Envision this an angry gorilla sitting in the middle of the exhibit at a zoo...That's how I look right about now.<BR>I'm going to send you another pix of us and one of our horse...It's only 9am, I just finished a whole box of crunch and munch, God!<P>Have a nice on Winnnnnnnn, T-storms today, don't forget your rubbers(shoes). LOL<P>

Dear M,<BR>I am so, so sorry for your pain. I wish there were some magic words, a phrase or a gesture that could just wipe it away. But you and I know there isn't. How about a cyber hug? {{{{M}}}}} <P>I was very tempted to remove my wedding rings a while back, but for another reason: I was not the WS, and my pain was so acute at my H's rejection of me that I removed them because I felt he had gone back on his promise to me. That lasted just one day, then I realized something. I realized that I had not gone back on my vows, and my heart was still full of love for him, so I put them back on. In a convoluted logic way, I think your W is saying "I now denounce my promises to M, and removing my rings is a symbol that I do not deserve to wear them, being they were a symbol of our promises TO EACH OTHER." She fell, M, not you. Frail human beings that we all are, she has given in to temptation and will one day pay for her sins (so shall we all). Unfortunately, it is the innocent bystanders (the BS's and children of cheating parents) that get hurt. But, I believe that EVERY pain we endure and get through can do one of two things for us. They will either make us far stronger or break our spirits. I choose to become stronger, because it IS a choice. <P>I think your idea to join a volunteer group at the hospital is an excellent idea! You will probably laugh, but guess what?? I was just invited to do the very same thing at the hospital my mom is in and I accepted! I am now volunteering for a little while each day in the Patient Activities/Recreation area of the rehab unit. It is so great to interact with others again, people who truly are in need of a little help and encouragement. I am meeting new people along the way (nurses, doctors, aides, etc.) who are wonderful folks, and my own bruised ego and esteem is coming alive again. It is in helping others that we truly help ourselves, M. I've found this out by founding the support group online for my ailment, but now it's even better. I am interacting "in real life" with others and the feeling is great.<P>As for spying on your W, I still think that is a good idea. Why? Because if this goes all the way to divorce, you need all of your ducks in a row. That is, you need the TRUTH, and facts to support your position. If you could get just one real fact (a picture, a letter, or eyewitness proof they are together), you will feel much better inside, believe it or not. Although it will hurt like hell, at least you will know exactly what happened to cause her break up with you. <P>As for her side/your side of things, there is still another side and that is the truth. The truth always lies somewhere in the middle of both people's sides, and right now, the truth is that she is willing to foresake your marriage. Fine. It's a big, wonderful world out there with LOTS and lots of great opportunities and possiblities. You won't feel that way right now, you need time to heal. That is why I keep on stressing be good to yourself, and honestly, M, ridding yourself of someone who does not love or honor you IS being good to yourself. It's a heck of a first step, but you can't take the second one without taking the first! <P>Right now, surround yourself with people who care about you, be it friends, relatives or even fellow volunteers. Most of all, give yourself time to calm down and realize that you are NOT alone. God is with you, every step of the way, providing you asked Him to be. And, I know you did. See? He has already opened one new door for you (the volunteer opportunity)!! So, take a chance and take that second step, my friend. You will not regret it!!<P>God bless you, dear M, and know you can always turn to me, too, for a shoulder to lean on or an ear to listen. We'll hold each other up through our trial-by-fire, and we will come out ahead!!<P>Much positive energy to you today, and of course, the famous "Winny hugs"! And..gonna look out for those T-storms, too!<BR>Winny<P>PS...<BR>Here's a cute one for ya! I just came across this and it seems to fit your W's situation with her OM:'<P>"She who wants a knight in shining armour....<BR>must clean up after the horse."<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Winnytoo (edited August 28, 2001).]

Win, nothing much going on, the W locked herself out of the house after walking the dogs this morning, our horse came in 7th last night and her "not so great" week of the month is upon us andthe lovely realtor is coming today. With these factors wieghing on her, I'm going to try to be nice...Get on her good side, that's if someone hasn't beat me to it. <P>This week I'm going to become a Private [censored](I'll try). Too much leads me to believe there is something going on between her and the OM. I spoke with moy mother and told her all about the "stuff I've been doing and thinking"..she said "God, you mind is really working"<P>Well I've got to get some rest, post more later.<BR>Look at those fluffy cumulus clouds today on a perfect blue pallet...

Hey, M...<BR>Glad to see your post today. I've been so concerned for you and praying you can hold up. YES..the sky and clouds are gorgeous today, and you are such a dear to point them out to me! I've had a down couple of days here (see my post on Emotional Needs, entitled "Help! Dr. Phil casualty here!") but today things are much better.<P>M, I was really happy to see you talked with your mother. Was she complimenting you or finding fault with you when she said your mind is working? I hope it's the former! You need all of the emotional support you can get from loved ones right now that you can possibly get. <P>As for your W, I think you will not be surprised at all when you find out "for sure" re: OM, possible A and all that. In fact, you will be surprised that you didn't come to this conclusion sooner (just like I did in my situation). Sometimes the hardest things for us to see are those that are right under our noses. Our heart gets in the way of our head trying to process all of the information, and things get so mixed up. Once the smoke clears, you'll be able to see things as they really are. Being "nice" to her is really Plan A'ing to some degree, and it shows you are a true gentleman. Hats off to you!!<P>As always, I wish you a good day today, M. Just keep those thoughts as positive as you can and centered on what's good for YOU right now. As I wrote in my other post, "we did not deserve what our WS's did to us, " and I stand by that 100%, Dr. Phill or no Dr. Phil! LOL!!<P>Hugs and smiles,<BR>Winny<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Winnytoo (edited August 29, 2001).]

Winnytoo, What does that mean BTW? Did you get my pix in your Yahoo mail? <BR>Forgot to mention why my mother called, she was watching Dr. Phil on Oprha(s?) or Okra, who ever she is. I read your post, sorry to hear you feelings just jumped right back out of the closet. My counselor said i needed to relinquish all my bad thoughts to make room for new lovey dovy ones. <BR>She's right but how do we forget...i'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy! <P>Anywho, I just finished a nice booty rub, I mean body rub for my wife(mind is in the gutter). After wards we talked and "i" actually ended up on a good side (give me time and the OM issue will be back)...<P>...W is still barreling down the big D with a full head of steam, I just asked her to think about what i say and feel for right now...not what she is convincing herself to believe. See, her and i are only mid twenties, the military has afforded us the opportunity to do much more in life when compared to a 40 year old civilian person. We've interdicted narcotics, shot at boats, arrested fisherman, saved haitian <BR>and cuban babies for the perils of the ocean...my point is, my W may be going through an early mid life crisis??? <P>Well I'm off to our spare room, my new room. I feel as if I have to give her space, besides my dog's butt is now on my pillow, LOL.<P>Even though I'll regret it, today i'm going to look for some yellow flowers in a field of real green grass, maybe I'll take a picture and give it to my wife instead of killing the flower, maybe I'll just kill the flower. I think those colors just blend so well, bright blue sky, fluffy white clouds, bright yellow tall flowers and refreshing green grass..if I think like this I'll keep bad thoughts buried.<BR>Give it a try, and don't forget to say hi to those furry poop machines(your horse buddies).<P>BTW, I attempted to have a key made for my wife's trunk...the key is authentic..no one has then..Geez. Luckily I have lock picking tools at work.<P>Have a nice day Win,<BR>M

HI, M!<BR>What does which mean? If you're referring to Dr Phil's remark, he was making the point that people who are through with us should be the targets of such honest statements. That is, an ex spouse, or ex lover who is permanently out of the picture. NOT someone like you or I, who are still with our mates (allbeit the may not share our feelings right at the moment)! This was one tiny detail I sort of overlooked, but now I understand why. The good old "trigger" effect <P>Kudos on the body rub for W. I'm so happy she was amiable towards you!! That's ONE for your side! and one less for OM's! <P>How do we forget the bad gunk?? Honestly, I think time helps to dull the memory. We never really completely forget, but at least the pain seems to dim over time. With each of us, the time it takes is different, but it will be better somewhere down the road.<P>As for your life's experiences, yes, you might be right. Perhaps your W is going through some kind of identity crisis. Although only in your 20's, you both seem to have packed a LOT of living into those years. God bless you both! BTW, my H and I are older folks (43 and 53), although my heart is still quite young. I'm not in a rocking chair yet (grin!) and have no plans of setting up residence in one! There's too much of Life to enjoy and savor and I am simply glad to be alive.<P>Just keep on Plan A'ing, M. Love is such a powerful force, and if she even lets herself feel your love for just an instant, that's a huge plus. <P>As for my horse friends (No...I haven't checked my Yahoo email in a few days, but after typing this post, I will!), they are all around me! Such lovely creatures, and still munching away on apples, carrots and even celery that I offer them. I feel like I am living close to heaven!<P>OK, good friend. Please have a nice evening and I hope you find the flowers you are seeking. What a lovely idea! Instead of killing them (picking them), take a photo instead! You are quite the poet!<P>God bless, and many hugs!<BR>Winny<P>

Mornin' Win,<BR>I was referring to you screen name "Winnytoo," what does it mean?<P>Let me tell you what came out of that back rub....she submitted the big D paperwork. What a B***h, pardon my French. My mother told me "if the W is numb to your pain and basically is calling it quits you have to start looking out for #1. Don't be stupid and say...oh, you can have everything, no, no I insist, etc.." For some reason, this led me back to the infidelity conclusion. W says she isn't stupid enough to do that (EA/PA) while we're married, so I can think whatever....she says she' not having an affair. So not intentionally, she is making my life hell...and I plan on paying her the same respects. I took a pillow I made for her on our forth anniversary, sunflower print, (flowers were the traditional gift) and chucked it out into the mud, my ring went with it. I told her I'm denouncing my promise also. What a roller coaster!!!<P>Here's what else I did, I wrote the presumed OM a letter, it's in your yahoo e-mail acct. (Please read through it) I don't know if I want to send it or not. I think it'll destroy their relationship in every aspect, I'm becoming bipolar, and I don't really want that(to hurt my wife). God, I feel like an intoxicated mouse in a lab, running around in five hundred directions. I plan on leaving her a copy, asking her to review it so she is not blindsided. Maybe I won't send it but say I did???<P>My mind is working so much day and night I awoke in a sweat last night, I guess my "Id" is becoming involved.<BR>Prior to finding out about her filing and me exploding I came home with some Lilac branches and a couple of sun flowers, did she acknowledge them...hell no she *****ed me out for e-mailing someone regarding a horse...only after the fact of mentioning it to her did she say thanks. <BR>Imp even back to my disorganized posts...no matter how many times I review it...it's still all out of wack!<P>20 hours of work left....AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH<BR>Take it easy Win, hopefully the past couple of days have been good to you.<BR>M

Well Win, her drawers are empty, my truck is gone...she moved out. Spoke with police and threatened me with a restraining order so I'm going to back off the Adultery nonsense.<P>M-I-L is an attorney but for the state of NY and currently my wife is seaking counsel from her...and she wants to bury me I guess. <P>W won't even come over to take care of the dogs on Monday while i work..I hope my parents wil take them for the day, on tuesday I'll have to find an animal adoption shelter. I can't maintian them all by lonesome. This is really becoming hard to deal with, I wish it would al go away sooner than later. Have yo ever watched the movie "Fallen" with Michael Dougless...I feel as if I'm in his shoes.<P>I'll keep in touch, a 2000 sq ft home gets really lonely

I came upon this thread and sat reading for over an hour, I was so hooked. GFB and Winny, I'm sure you've moved onto email, but I just wanted you to know I'm thinking of you and hoping things are ok. Hope you're treating yourself well GFB, and that things turned out the way you wanted them to, Winny. You both sound like such wonderful people.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cabbage:<BR><B>I came upon this thread and sat reading for over an hour, I was so hooked. GFB and Winny, I'm sure you've moved onto email, but I just wanted you to know I'm thinking of you and hoping things are ok. Hope you're treating yourself well GFB, and that things turned out the way you wanted them to, Winny. You both sound like such wonderful people.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Cabbage..<BR>What a lovely way to start my day!! Thank you for your very kind words and you sound like a very special and loving person yourself, btw! :-)<P>GFB, I am so sorry this has happened to you. As you can tell, I've been away all last week, which is why I haven't written. All I can tell you about that letter you wrote to the OM is this: a long time ago, an attorney friend of mine told me never to put anything in writing (such as a personal letter like yours) that you would not be willing to stand up and defend in court. That advice has saved me a world of grief over the years, mainly as I love to write and communicate with others in this fashion. If it were me, I'd keep that letter locked up in a safe place for future reference and just sit quietly by and watch any developments. I know you must be in a world of pain and deep emotional hurt, but please know that you WILL feel better as time goes along. Once our highly charged emotions have a chance to cool down a little, we can think more clearly. Your W has certainly 'made her statement' to you, and the best thing you can do is to get on with the rest of your life. I pray that you will find peace and contentment eventually and really, I know that you will. You have many fine qualities and a lot to offer a loving woman, so hang in there!! Also, please post back here from time to time and let us all know how you are doing.<P>As for me, I had a wonderful week last week. My "big event" happened, and now I will be secure in some areas for life. Although my body has undergone many difficult physical changes, my spirit remains strong and forward-looking. <P>As for my relationship with my H, even before said event, he was returning to his old self with me. Now that our horror-nightmare is over and we have some breathing room, his depression has really started to lift. We are treating one another much, much better and I am no longer afraid to think we will remain together. It certainly looks that way and for that, I am very, very happy.<P>Just a word to all readers/lurkers here:<BR>Sometimes, events happen in life that can cause a very deep depression in someone. If left untreated, this depression can wreck lives, including those of the person's loved ones as well. No couple should ever have to go through what my H and I did--a doctor's medical errors caused me to lose my good health forever, and in so doing, nearly ruined our very lives together. ALL of the symptoms of my H's depression mimicked those of a chating spouse: the withdrawal, the refusal to communicate or make love, the encapsulation and isolation, the secrecy and hiding of important documents and all the rest. <P>Be as sure as you can be that your spouse is cheating on you before you jump to any conclusions and lower the boom on him/her. Once accused unjustly, the words are very hard to take back and the resulting hurt feelings can last a lifetime. What I mean is, you can suspect, gather evidence and all that, but do not accuse or blame until you are reasonably sure cheating is what's taking place. I would have bet my bottom dollar that my H had an A, but now I see that the OW's crush on him may have flattered him when he was so vulnerable, but he did not comply with her hopes, wishes and desires. Even if he did, the point is that he came back to me and we are starting anew, both of us much wiser now. In my heart, I have forgiven him in case he did stray because I know that if he did, depression was the root cause. <P>Sometimes, the obvious is very elusive, so don't discount it. Like my momma always told me, treat others the way you want to be treated, and you will be all right. She was right this time, and my doing Plan A was the BEST "medicine" of all. God bless everyone on this site, and I'll check back here from time to time just to say hello. <P>Best wishes to all, always...<BR>Winny<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Winnytoo (edited September 10, 2001).]

Cabbage, <BR>Unfortunately things are just spiraling down for me...I'm at the point where I hate my job and I can't stand sitting home without my wife, this is absolute torture...recently I've turned to the Bible. It's turning out that the only soothing moment I have is when I'm reading.<P>Haven't heard from Winny????

Hi everyone. Been laying pretty low for a while. The thread I started seems to have gone off in a different direction. I've checked in time-to-time as I still get email notices when someone posts on this thread. To bring you up to date...nothing much has changed although I think we have been dancing on the edge of the cliff in terms of continuing our marriage. There is no one else in either of our lives and she says she still wants to stay with me. But the thought of intimacy with me (not just sex)is "wierd". She made a comment "like kissing my brother". Our counselor is away until the end of the month but I do not think she has been effective -- just sort of a third party listener. Maybe my expectations are more from her.... I am trying to be patient but unless I get some sort of indication that things are returning to normal then I will need to start looking at taking care of myself.<BR>I will watch this thread a little longer but will either turnoff the notification or start a new one. Thanks for listening and good luck to the others on this thread. Neil Young says it best in one of his songs..."only love can break your heart". <BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alone-in-CNY:<BR><B>I am trying to be patient but unless I get some sort of indication that things are returning to normal then I will need to start looking at taking care of myself.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I have one thing to say to you - THINK OF YOURSELF FIRST.<P>Go and read all my threads "My wife had an affair - I still want her".<P>It has taken me over a year, and my wife is still very hesitant to be intimate with me.<P>The last two months I have realized, without being cruel, that if I dont look after ME first, then nothing will improve. I have stopped running after my wife, stopped bugging her, stopped whining and have realized, that, at the worst, I will be on my own and be able to start over again.<P>I treat my wife politely and courteous but that is all - she is still in contact with her OM, after so many months and cannot see reason shy she should get him completely out of her life, even though she says "Its over".<P>Either way, whether there is someone else or not. you HAVE to realize that you, your sanity, your happiness comes first.<P>It has taken me over a year of torment amd trauma to realize that.<P>Do not be scared to start acting independently - it is for your own good.<P>Do NOT push her for intimacy, just do the opposite.<P>

Thanks,<BR>I have been trying to give her the "space" she needs. She told me this past weekend she does not want a divorice and doesn't want to start start over with someone else -- we have basically spent 1/2 of or lives together. We have common interests and she says she enjoys going places with me. But she says I am "too familiar" and it is like I am a brother...so the thought of any type of intimacy is repulsive. I asked why I am always the one to request a "talk on our problems" (because if I do not, we would only talk about it when we were with the counselor) and she replied that she would rather avoid it and she is "annoyed" at some of the topics. She says she is good confronting other people's issues aand problems but not necessarily her own. Patience is very hard when you are not receiving any feedback....<BR>

(I can finally post here after such a week - God Bless America)<P>GFB<BR>I'm very sorry things are "spiraling". Maybe they have to in order to get better? I know I spiral quite a bit in my marriage, can feel as down as can be. I try to focus on what I have, family, friends, health, anything but of course that doesn't mask it. I can only say that you deserve more, something she couldn't give you. Also that for some reason it's important for you to be alone at this time, in order to accomplish what you must in this life. Believe me, I am telling myself the same thing (although I'm not alone, I tell myself I must be in turmoil for a reason, to motivate myself, to become what I need to be). We don't accomplish much when we are content. We sit back, "fat and happy" so to speak. I must believe there are reasons for pain (particularly this week's), it is the only thing that comforts me. (BTW I found it funny you said you hadn't heard from Winny and she was writing at the same time as you

Hi Alone, M, and Cabbage..<BR>I just didn't feel much like posting after Sept. 11th. It was such a horrible thing that it made my own personal problems seem very, very pale by comparison. Like all Americans, I have been busy praying, and I have been volunteering here at the home level, trying to do whatever I can to ease the pain. <P>In fact, there is a good message in this: often, helping others is the best 'medicine' there is. I joined my local hospital as a volunteer and go there a few times a week to help out wherever I can. A member of the Y, I am now also singing up to volunteer there as well, helping kids to learn how to swim. The upshot is that my own problems, while still there, seem to be not as prevalent in my life lately. My attitude in general has changed, something my H has picked up on and he is looking at me in a whole new light. In fact, we have been so close lately (since the Day of Infamy 2001) that it's as if we both realized how lucky we are to still have each other. You see, both of us were in NYC just before the attack. I was there 6 days before, and my H, just 24 hours before. Since he works up in that area, you can imagine my relief when I heard he was OK. At the same time, he was feeling very worried about me, so far away. Having a national crisis like this really makes you stop and think, doesn't it?<P>I hope you all are doing better by now. Yes, it stinks to have someone you love reject you, but I learned that you really can go on and sometimes, it's really possible to get back together. All I know is that I was finally emotionally and mentally prepared for the worst--that is, if my H truly did not want me anymore, I was ready to go on. My own sense of self worth came back and I think that once that happened, he DID really look at me differently. <P>One thing this tragedy taught many of us (if not all) is that we are far stronger than we think we are. It's that spirit that keeps us going, no matter what.<P>Stay strong--have faith and believe that Life really is worth living, regardless of who does or doesn't love you. If you love yourself, that's enough of a good start.<P>Hugs to all and prayers that God blesses America now and forever...<BR>Winny<P><p>[This message has been edited by Winnytoo (edited September 24, 2001).]

I guess I have more of a question then any kind of advice. Is it possible that there is something physically standing in the way of your wifes physical rejection? <P>Menapause can do strange things to a woman, and make sexual desire diminish to almost nothing, also causing strange emotional reactions with the loss of harmones.<P>Just something to think about if it applies.<P>KatDoll

there sure is something physical...another disrespectful man who has taken my place...my wife is off having fun because someone is sitting in my shoes right now and I don't know if the fun is emotional or physical. here i am lower than dirt...unfortunately my standards of relationships/living won't allow me to get a girlfriend to hang out with...I guess some of us have cooth(?) <P>GFB