Ceecee, I think your H is my ex's clone! It will get better. I have residual pain but now its not because I lost him it is because I ever looked at him twice. He is such a rotten to the core person, I too feel like the whole relationship was a lie, like he acted like this great guy until he really had me and then turned on me, and enjoyed watching me suffer! I wish he didn't know how much I suffered then I think it really pumped up his ego- yuck! I have to tell you now though that I have a hard time just looking or thinking of him now. In my mind when I think "j" (my ex) I either see a big ugly creature with pus oozing out all over the place or a giant fly. An let me tell you that my ex is in actuality a very very handsome man- thats probaly one of the reasons it is so easy for him to manipulate people. Remember the movie The fly where he talked about insect politics- insects have no politics they are only out for themselves. My ex reminds me most of the fly an usually if I think of him that is what I see, not the outwardly gorgeous creature he is, I just see a fly because I guess all I see are his insides now and he is so ugly inside. He totally grosses me out so much that it almost hurts me because I know I once loved him so much. Wish I could just see him as a regular guy but its been three years and I don't know if that will ever happen. Anyway I definitaly don't want him or care what he thinks anymore. On the other hand my opinion of him is very important to him and his feelings are easily hurt by me, although I don't intentionally say mean things to hurt him he has been told that I could care less what he's doing, what is going on in his life, want zero contact, etc. On the other had he makes a point of telling everyone what a great person I am and how much he cares about me. I suspect that underneath your H is a very weak person just like my ex. He is mean because he is projecting and underneath he knows you are a better person than he is so try not to take his cruelity too hard. I can almost guarentte that this will be clear to you one day.

jskjsk,<BR>What you describe is one of the things that frighten me - I don't want to feel nothing but hate for my H. I happened to be present when a woman in the midst of divorce was complaining about something he H had done - the hate she was exuding was making my stomach churn.

I think I came accross the wrong way. I don't think it is hate anymore although I know I went through a phase where I had a deep hatred for him. I don't think everyone feels the way I do about an ex spouse that betrayed or hurt them. But, I don't think everyone has an ex like mine. In the course of recovering from this relationship, I went to three different counselors and each has told me without my ever bringing up the word that they think my ex was a sociopath. Not all sociopaths are murderers and rapists. One counselor described it to me that some sociopaths like to "kill" people emotionally and they will systematically proceed on that path. And looking back I can see that his actions were very planned. It is hard enough to recover from being betrayed belittled etc but to look back and see that this was in fact the person's goal in the relationhip is very difficult to deal with. Overcoming someone's selfish act is overwhelming, to overcome the fact that the person you loved set out to cause you great pain is unbelievable. It took me a long time to even accept that this is what happened, the ego really gets in the way of letting you accept this one. I would never fall for a crazy like that, he must not be. Very difficult too for me to understand because I don't see the gain but evidently the gain is power and control. Being able to watch another person suffer gives them a rush. I must say that more than hate what I have for him is pity. But I have to have even more empathy for his victims. He had long term relationships with two women before me and I now know that the course of those relationships was very similar to my relationship with him. They also both feel as I do that his primary goal in the relationship was to destroy them. He left both of them traumatized and humiliated as he did me, and came back around to watch. I knew he had a difficult childhood, mother abandoned him, and at the end of the relationship he turned to me and said, Don't you get it yet, I hate women, all of you, I despise all of you and then did this little half grin and snickered. This is a guy that treated me like a princess. His old girlfriend later told me yes he does the prince charming thing to suck you in that way he can really get you good. He also told her near the end of their relaionship that he hated all women all of you b's! He left me for another woman, and he told me he was going to hurt her a lot. When I said huh? he repeated to me that he knew he was going to hurt her and he was going to hurt her a lot. This about a woman he had only known a few months and asked to marry shortly after I had this discussion with him. A year after we parted ways, they were married. He told me he had to get away from me before he hurt me anymore because I didn't deserve to be hurt anymore. He inferred to me that even though I was a woman (said it like it was a dirty word) I was one of the better ones and so I didn't deserve any more punishment but his new girl was one of the "bad" ones and she deserved lots of pain. I still can't begin to imagine what would have had to happen to him to make him enjoy watching another person suffer. I certainly can't go into the whole story right here but his actions were monsterous. In my head, of course I know that doesn't make him a monster, just severely mentally ill and in need of help. However, just because we don't like it that there are people like this in the world, I think that denying that there are is a mistake because that is simply not true, and very unfair to their victims. When I said Ceecee's ex sounds a lot like mine, he really does, but that doesn't mean he has the extra added attraction of being a sociopath as mine was. What I wanted to stress is that you can love someone so much and eventually when you look back you usually see their true colors. You will useually see if they are just very selfish, made a mistake or if they are truely sick as mine was. Either way the cruelity he is exhibiting is owned by him and is likely in no way related to her and she will see this clearly some day. I guess reading her post just triggerred me, I never met to come across with hatred. My ex is a very handsome (looks a lot like Brad Pitt) extremely intelligent, very creative (draws beautifully, writes exquisitely, sings) ACTOR. Yes he will sing to you and write you poetry about how deep his love for you is, he will leave roses all over the house, he will help you around the house etc etc). What a CATCH! He will even continue doing this WHILE he is sleeping with someone else, making sure to leave bits and pieces of evidence around, just enough to make you insecure, but not enough to prove anything. None of the other ex's could ever prove anything either although they always had the feeling something was going on before he actually left. He is a wonderful actor and if one is not careful I know that that pretty smile and the beautiful words can suck you in. I saw the way women used to look at him when he walked into a room. But of course, he would not give them the time of day, in front of me because I was his one true love! Oh I thought I was the luckiest woman in the world! Maybe my knowing that he seems to have so much power over women is what makes me subconsiously hold these negative images of him, not sure. Although uncomfortable, I will take it any day over unrequitted love for a cruel partner. I would be very surprised if he was really capable of love. The truth is if something is blue, you can call it pink all you want, its still blue and if someone is an axe murderer you can say they are just misunderstood, had a bad childhood, blah, blah but in the end they are still an axe murderer. I could say my ex was an ok guy that just makes mistakes over and over but that would just make me a liar- which I am not.

jskjsk - your note really struck a cord with me. Mostly because I just spent the evening with one of H's best frieds (male). We walked and talked for 3 hours. He is also feeling a huge sense of betrayal and distrust and manipulation from H. These two have been friends for as long as I've known H. In a way, it was reinforceing to me to see that all the lies, diversions, not answering questions, and evasiveness was not just something he did to me. He's beeing doing this to his best friends as well. This particular friend is feeling a huge amount of betrayal as well (because they were really really close - he thought he knew H really well... now he feels he doen'st know him at all and that the whole relationship will have to be redefined. So he's hurting too. <P>We spend a lot of time tonight talking about my feelings of anger and hate. Michael (H's friend) kept coming back to whether I was feeling any joy. After a long long discussion, I am finally seeing that its okay to be where I am emotionally (sad, anger, fear) but Michael could also help me see some joy in it. We spent a lot of time talking about some happy peak life experiences and the emotions that go with that (and the associated joy). He explained that the peaks need to be offset with the lows. The lower the lows, the higher the peaks. I'm currently in a place where I've not had feelings like this for me, so it is very uncomfortable. Michale encouraged me to stay with it, not judge it, relish it. There is much emotion (and in fact Joy) in the underbelly as there is in the tops of the joyful experiences. <P>I know I'm not explaining this very well. but I feel grounded and centered and balanced for the first time since discovery (3 weeks ago). The logjam in my head and body feels like its moving. <P>I also learned that the whole affair thing with H has been filling up so muchof my emotional reserves, because everything else in my life is in really good shape (work, friends, family, et. Since all the other stuff is going well, I have all this energy to focus on the affair and the OW and it becomes addictive and totally consuming. I didn't see that before. <P>Anyone here read the book "The Pilot's Wife"? I read it a week before discovery. What incredible timing. <BR>

Can't sleep tonight for some reason, usually sleep like a baby. I just bought the pilot's wife and have been looking forward to reading it. I don't come by these boards all of the time, just occasionally now when I feel need some support or when I feel sorry for myself about what I went through and that it took so long to get back to normalcy. It helps to remind me that it wasn't my fault because I tend to take on responsibilites of myself and basically anyone else around me ( if only I had responded differently they would not have done that ..) When I see people on these boards doing the same thing it helps me to be able to try to help them see that they may be taking on responsiblity for things that are not their fault and they may have no control over. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt but I realize now that you must also protect yourself, not everyone is going to be nice and honest. And when something is wrong its wrong no matter how you color it. I don't always like that but I must accept it. It honestly has just been in the past year that I have really really openned my eyes to what went on in my relationship. Even having counselors, having friends, relatives you name it try to help open my eyes I just refused to see, or perhaps I could only take bits and pieces of the trauma at a time. <BR>Has your husband seen a counselor or psychiatrist? Maybe he has a chemical imbalance that has grown over time or been exacerbated by stress and is causing his personality to change. Evidently, my ex's personality was always the same, I just didn't know it. He seems to get along with men ok, he usually doesn't betray them as far as I know, as long as they worship the ground he walks on. Most of them seem to think he is the coolest and treat him like he is James Bond or something. I suppose because he seems to have so much power over women and seems to get away with things that they never could. They think he is THE MAN. And of course they never know all of the details of just how low down and dirty he plays because I know some of them would have nothing to do with him i they did. He is just so darn good at it, and so darn smart that he can hide the things he wants to so well. Some of the things he did to me at the end are things one would never want to repeat in decent society and thus are only know by a counselor or close friend. I am certain the other women he dealt with have hidden secrets that they feel they can't disclose- so how would any of his male friends ever find out about these things, the perfect plan. This I must admit is infuriating. I am certain however that if any of his male friends ever asked him to do anything hard he would be gone with the wind, and the funny thing is that I think they know that but just like being "cool" enough to hang out with him. Sounds like high school huh, he's 34 years old! Yes his anger and hatred is defintely directed towards women. The latest therapist said she is sure he is borderline and likely has sociopathic tendencies. The last two told me flat out they thought he was a sociopath. I understand that although difficult, borderlines can be treated successfully but it requires lots of motivation and a counselor trained in dealing with this kind of disorder. On the other hand, I don't think there is a lot of help out there for sociopaths or sociopathic tendencies! If your H does have some kind of mental disorder I hope it turns out to be something treatable, those types are much more common anyway than the one I was evidently dealing with. I was reading one of those books one time I think it was called when your lover is a liar that defined different types of liars and how to help them so that the relationship could continue. For the category mine fell into it basically said don't bother, cut your losses, run and run very fast. Wish I had known about some of these books sooner, maybe I would have recognized him and pulled myself out before I got so deep into the relatonship.