I am at my wits end right now. I love my wife but her constant jealousy is devouring that love quickly. She had a very bad previous marriage with an unfaithful and abusive husband. I feel like I am paying for all his faults. I am very faithful and have never even considered straying. I don't ogle women and make sure especially in her company that I don't even look at women, but it is never enough. If an attractive women even walks in front of me or I turn and there happens to be one there I am immediately accused of lusting after her or continously staring, which I am not. My wife likes to watch a lot of this new reality television, which typically has a lot of scantilly dresses people. She throws a fit if I don't turn my head away from the television while a woman is in her bathingsuit. I have never oohed and aahed over women before and wouldn't think of doing it, but I feel like a 5 year when I have to turn my head, so that she doesn't go into a rage. There are multiple other situations which are to numerous to list. We went to premarrital counsiling before marriage and when this stuff was brought up it was me attacking her. I know this is just one side and I admit I'm not perfect but I also know the difference between a bad husband and myself. I don't know what to do, I think constantly about life without her now. On one hand it really scares me and I would miss the good times, which we have had, although I don't think a day has gone by when her jealousy has not come out. But on the other hand I would feel like I am in a cage. Free...

I try to put myself in her shoes, but each time she accuses me of lusting after other women I loose something... love, and I hate it. She is very beautiful and extremely intelligent, which is why her jealousy makes no sense. I understand where it from in people, I've done extensive research, but it seems to be more powerful than me. Any ideas...

Dear Alex,

What have you tried? What does your research show?

My wife goes through stages. I like to watch errotic vidos with my wife in foreplay. Someties my wife is OK with it, sometimes she is a prude.

Many women posting here express ideas of jealousy or prudishness. It makes me thankful for what I have, which is at least inconsistent.

Have you read the Negotiations MB Articles? Have you tried to sit down with her, maybe out to lunch or dinner, and discuss ways you can make her feel more trusting toward you?

"What can I do to help you to feel more trusting of me?"

Would she like you to get a tatoo someplace, "Devoted to My Wife _______"

What about a wider wedding band? Chastity belt, and give her the key?

I try to leave my wife messages of what I am doing, so she can feel that she can trust me.

Is your wife generally afraid? Have you looked into strategies to alleviate her fears?

Bes wishes,

Quipper
Husband of 28 years, raised 2 challenging kids, still struggling

If her jealousy issue is not aggressively addressed it will destroy your marriage. This is a problem that should have been thoroughly dealt with PRIOR to M. She is in fact projecting her poor self-image and lack of confidence on you. In her warped way of thinking that makes you the perpetrator and she is the victim.

Please consider approaching her this way:

1. Insist she accept accountability for her CHOICE to act this way. Make it clear you are the victim and she is the one with the issue, and it is destroying your relationship. Share with her the pain this has caused you and stress the long-term implications if she refuses to change.

2. Insist she immediately enter counseling, and make it clear she is to be totally open and honest in confronting this problem. Don't allow her to blameshift, excuse her behavior, or put forth the "victim" image.

3. Do all within your power (it sounds like you are doing the best you can already) to reassure her of your love and support. However, that love and support means applying "tough love" to the situation with the goal of resolution, not compromise.

Brother, I know what is is to have a jealous spouse. It feels like you are walking on eggshells. It gets tiring to hear the constant comparing of herself to other women and the belittling of herself along with that.

You will likely be accused of manipulating, controlling, and domineering if you decide to be proactive. Be willing to bite that bullet because you know your motivation is correct. It's the same principle of dealing with one in addiction or other destructive behaviors. She suffers from a deep spiritual and emotional problem. Your love and devotion can help in her being healed, but she has to recognize her problem.

God bless you and I'm praying for you.

Thank you. I will post a good reply shortly. Thank you both for your input. Yes, the problem is very deep rooted. I am so glad to here from someone that understands.

Hi alx1970,


I understand what you are going thru...not because my partner is jealous...I'm talking about myself. I was the jealous one. I too was in a very bad previous marriage... I posted on this site 6 years ago when I was having my issues then... My ex-H was unfaithful and abusive and that left me in a condition where I had to seek therapy and did that for a little over 3 years. Most of the therapy was to deal with my anger behind the affair, but there was just so much more that I had to do to rebuild my spirit. At first when all that happened...My ego was bruised. I felt at that time that my H thought I was #1. So how could this happen? I was in shock. After all we had been married over 5 years. Had a nice church wedding, had happy times in the cuple of years that follwed and when he did that we had a year old son with a daughter on the way...and just like that, he destroyed our family with one act. It was too devastating for me. Our lives were never the same after that.

Almost 6 years later and several failed relationships I am finally engaged to a wonderful man. But I have behaved poorly. He has made some sacrifices for me...like relocating and changing his career. He is in the police academy and will graduate in December. I have accused him of fraternizing too much with the female recruits and accused him of all kinds of things. Although I know that there is no time for him to do any of this...I just cant bear the thought of it even happening. I just domt want to revisit that time in my life back then I was confident of how strong I thought my relationship was...I was fooled and made a fool of. I guess this is my fear again.

My fiance has gone to great lengths to reaasure me of his love. Telling me everyday that he loves me. He even has pictures of me in his notebook he takes to school. He has spoken about me and our relationship to the other officers including the female ones and constantly tries to put in a call every now and then just to say he was thinking of me. Sounds great right? Well its hard for that to to register to someone who is feeling insecure sometimes...it wasnt him...its me. I didnt blow a fuse if he looked at other woman..but I did get upset and then an argument will happen later on. Only because I dont like arguing in public.

I really shouldnt have felt this way. I am 35 and look great after 2 kids and I am very attractive. But I dont feel that way alot of times because of my behavior...I know it brings out the worst in me.

My fiance has cried and pleaded with me. He didnt know what else to do to show me that he wouldnt hurt me...I felt that the negative behavior I've imposed on him was done to see if he could be pushed to that level.

So far he is still with me and I am working on trying to trust and feel more secure. It eases my mind knowing how much he loves me and it also eases my mind when I hear his friends tell me how much he loves having me in his life. One day his golf partner surprised me and told me that my fiance said that I saved him...Well I feel that he is saving me too...from myself. It is destructive behavior that needs to change or it may get worse. I love him and dont plan on losing him.

Being that you havent given her any reason to mistrust you, you should sit down with her and let her know that her bahavior is causing a wedge between you. Let her know you love her and her only and that she need not worry. As long as you can show and tell her that your love is hers...she may change.

Good Luck.

Q

This posted twice sorry.

<small>[ November 03, 2003, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: Querida ]</small>

Q - I admire you for seeing your issue and dealing with it. However, I would caution you to NOT MARRY until you have this thing resolved. Your spouse cannot be expected to put up with this behavior and maintain a happy house. Trust me, this problem leads to other areas of hurt if not properly resolved. God bless!

I'm not sure what to do. I believe some of it is my fault for letting it go this long and not putting my foot down. We have talked and argued about it. She hates the fact she is this way but does not think she will ever change. I have cried and told her I don't know what she wants from me, her answer is that I don't make her feel loved and if I showed her she would trust me more. I have worked on this and worked on this. I will get to a point where I think she is beginning to understand my love for her then WHAM, a huge jealousy issue arises and I find it harder and harder to show her those feelings of love again. I used to love to watch movies, now I get very tense and agitated during movies for fear of a sensual scene and following fight. She even got upset for fear that I was getting turned on reading a book that said two people were having sex. I find that I am having to not tell her the whole truth about a stupid book! It was science fiction! I am very tired of fighting. Yes, I should made sure the issues were worked out before we got married (twenty twenty) (I know that my own esteem problems stopped me from following through). We avoid certain friends of hers now because she says they get on her nerves, but I know it has everything to do with the fact that she doesn't want me to be near them. She has told me and we have argued over it that she will never trust anyone completely, because that is stupid. This is my second marriage too. My first wife cheated on me with a supposed good friend, at the time. I don't suffer from this type of jealousy, I understand that if she didn't cheat on me she would have with somebody else. At this point I really don't have any close friends anymore, if I wanted to do something with someone she would want to be there, because she wouldn't trust me alone with another friend. I may talk to him about his girlfreind or wife or I might see another woman and because my friend may talk to them I would cheat on her or come home thinking about this other woman!? My ex may have cheated on me, but at least I had the freedom to play a round of golf on my own.
I have read through the site of Marriage Builders before and tried to apply some of it, but I think this goes past that.
I feel guilty and sad for facing this, but I don't want to keep taking the blame for stuff for the rest of my life. I am also afraid for her being alone, although I know she would find someone quickly. There is another issue, she has a daughter from her previous marriage that I have become very attached and I don't want to hurt her. I know I talk like it is over, I just don't know if she will change. I feel like it is her way of being in complete control. I feel like a wimp talking like this, but emotions are very hard to deal with and she is very strong willed. I would really like to keep this going, this is some of the best advice and feeling of comfort I've had. Hurting Promise Keeper are you a member of the Promise Keepers?

I'm not sure what to do. I believe some of it is my fault for letting it go this long and not putting my foot down. We have talked and argued about it. She hates the fact she is this way but does not think she will ever change. I have cried and told her I don't know what she wants from me, her answer is that I don't make her feel loved and if I showed her she would trust me more. I have worked on this and worked on this. I will get to a point where I think she is beginning to understand my love for her then WHAM, a huge jealousy issue arises and I find it harder and harder to show her those feelings of love again. I used to love to watch movies, now I get very tense and agitated during movies for fear of a sensual scene and following fight. She even got upset for fear that I was getting turned on reading a book that said two people were having sex. I find that I am having to not tell her the whole truth about a stupid book! It was science fiction! I am very tired of fighting. Yes, I should made sure the issues were worked out before we got married (twenty twenty) (I know that my own esteem problems stopped me from following through). We avoid certain friends of hers now because she says they get on her nerves, but I know it has everything to do with the fact that she doesn't want me to be near them. She has told me and we have argued over it that she will never trust anyone completely, because that is stupid. This is my second marriage too. My first wife cheated on me with a supposed good friend, at the time. I don't suffer from this type of jealousy, I understand that if she didn't cheat on me she would have with somebody else. At this point I really don't have any close friends anymore, if I wanted to do something with someone she would want to be there, because she wouldn't trust me alone with another friend. I may talk to him about his girlfreind or wife or I might see another woman and because my friend may talk to them I would cheat on her or come home thinking about this other woman!? My ex may have cheated on me, but at least I had the freedom to play a round of golf on my own.
I have read through the site of Marriage Builders before and tried to apply some of it, but I think this goes past that.
I feel guilty and sad for facing this, but I don't want to keep taking the blame for stuff for the rest of my life. I am also afraid for her being alone, although I know she would find someone quickly. There is another issue, she has a daughter from her previous marriage that I have become very attached and I don't want to hurt her. I know I talk like it is over, I just don't know if she will change. I feel like it is her way of being in complete control. I feel like a wimp talking like this, but emotions are very hard to deal with and she is very strong willed. I would really like to keep this going, this is some of the best advice and feeling of comfort I've had. Hurting Promise Keeper are you a member of the Promise Keepers?

I'm not sure what to do. I believe some of it is my fault for letting it go this long and not putting my foot down. We have talked and argued about it. She hates the fact she is this way but does not think she will ever change. I have cried and told her I don't know what she wants from me, her answer is that I don't make her feel loved and if I showed her she would trust me more. I have worked on this and worked on this. I will get to a point where I think she is beginning to understand my love for her then WHAM, a huge jealousy issue arises and I find it harder and harder to show her those feelings of love again. I used to love to watch movies, now I get very tense and agitated during movies for fear of a sensual scene and following fight. She even got upset for fear that I was getting turned on reading a book that said two people were having sex. I find that I am having to not tell her the whole truth about a stupid book! It was science fiction! I am very tired of fighting. Yes, I should made sure the issues were worked out before we got married (twenty twenty) (I know that my own esteem problems stopped me from following through). We avoid certain friends of hers now because she says they get on her nerves, but I know it has everything to do with the fact that she doesn't want me to be near them. She has told me and we have argued over it that she will never trust anyone completely, because that is stupid. This is my second marriage too. My first wife cheated on me with a supposed good friend, at the time. I don't suffer from this type of jealousy, I understand that if she didn't cheat on me she would have with somebody else. At this point I really don't have any close friends anymore, if I wanted to do something with someone she would want to be there, because she wouldn't trust me alone with another friend. I may talk to him about his girlfreind or wife or I might see another woman and because my friend may talk to them I would cheat on her or come home thinking about this other woman!? My ex may have cheated on me, but at least I had the freedom to play a round of golf on my own.
I have read through the site of Marriage Builders before and tried to apply some of it, but I think this goes past that.
I feel guilty and sad for facing this, but I don't want to keep taking the blame for stuff for the rest of my life. I am also afraid for her being alone, although I know she would find someone quickly. There is another issue, she has a daughter from her previous marriage that I have become very attached and I don't want to hurt her. I know I talk like it is over, I just don't know if she will change. I feel like it is her way of being in complete control. I feel like a wimp talking like this, but emotions are very hard to deal with and she is very strong willed. I would really like to keep this going, this is some of the best advice and feeling of comfort I've had. Hurting Promise Keeper are you a member of the Promise Keepers?

Q. I am with promise keeeper, please try to resolve your jealousy issues before marriage. It is like a dark cloud that never goes away. No matter what you're doing it is always there lingering and festering. You don't want your future groom to start you marriage off harboring any sort of resentment towards you. It will only get worse. Sorry to sound so doom and gloom. It sounds like you two deserve a wonderful life together.

alx1970,

The things yoyu are saying sounds exactly like my fiance...down to the spare time to play some golf... I know its my fault and that he tries. I am working on it and ....No we wont be marrying until I feel better about myself and us. I promised myself that if I ever did it again it would be for forever. My kids love him and he has a 15 year old daughter of his own as well and I have tried to have a good relationship with her also. She lives in another state but because her mother is in the military she has been staioned in iraq since feb of this year and will not have her back until june of next year so she has been living with us.

So its been a very overwhelming year for me...cause not only did He move in but so did his daughter. We have adjusted well...and the fights we have had have been more about me and the way i have handled certain things.

alx1970, I admit that I tried to control alot of things in our relationship. I was also verbally abusive. I knew how to spin things around and make him feel guilty about things that were my fault! There were so many things that I should have apologized for and I didnt because I was angry. Was this fair? No... I was wrong and I can admit that now and I am doing my best. To change my attitude and the way I look at him and myself. He is nothing like my ex-H.

I have to say that the book/video thing is a little extreme.. I dont get angry over that. But I have to say that I do love him so...this is why he is wrth being a better person for.

Please talk to your wife or show her this post. cause if she keeps it up your relationship will be destroyed and then she will have no one to blame but herself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Q

<small>[ November 03, 2003, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: Querida ]</small>

Thanks. I will talk to her. Its weird, I feel like I've been conditioned to feel like everything is my fault.

I don't think she will go to counseling. Excuses being: She doesn't have enough time, insurance won't cover it (costs to much), I need to change, she is afraid (which I believe to be the real reason) etc...

Yes, I have been a Promise Keeper for several years. The program has changed my life. They have a great website and I recommend you check it out. God bless!

Dear Alex,

You say your wife is afraid. Have you identifeid any of he fears?

You say your wife will not accept counseling. Couseling is largely asking pertinent questions in a logical sequence so that the person receiving counseling can see a clearer path. Have you looked at books of counseling qustions? I use the Grade Charts, 0-4, from Scientology, $80.00 apiece, 4 volumes. I review the Grade Charts to find questions to ask to help my wife see through her problems. My wife refuses to participate in counseling. I bring the counseling to her.

Do you know the steps to raise the level of attitudes of your wife, or any people, up from fear? Have you ever heard of the Scientology Tone Scale? You focus you communication 0.5 steps above hers. In goes Anger, Teasing, Boredom, contentment, cheerfulness and enthusiasm. Are you able to project each attitude? With whom did you practice? Who has tested your skills?

Best Wishes,

Quipper
Married 28 years, still struggling

Yes, counseling is pretty pricey. I was lucky back then to have been allowed to stay on my ex-H insurance which covered it. Afterward when I had issues in a different relationship I used some books that my therapist reccomended. You may want to check it out.

The book is called getting the love you want. by Harville Hendrix, PH.D. He also has a couples companion workbook which is a yearlong excercise and meditations.

I hope that it works out for you. I dont like to see my honey cry. when he does I feel terrible. I realize that I am terrible and he doesnt deserve that and neither do you.

Take Care, Q

Querida, have you felt any changes within yourself? Do you feel like you defeating your jealousy issues and if so what has had the most significant impact? My wife has suggested marriage counseling at our new church. I still don't know if this will address the jealousy issue well enough, but maybe it's a start. It seems to be almost hardwired into her system. I really want her to overcome it, because it has got to be very hard on her too. Trying to understand both sides.

Dear Alex,

If your wife suggests marriage counseling, and you would like your wife to improve in a particular area, sometimes there can be an exchange of efforts worked out, "I will try to improve in this area and you try to improve in this other area of interest to me."

My rules for marriage counseling, are that I avoid directly criticizing my wife about anything. I may bring up a topic, by "Honey, would this be a good time to discuss my feelings about watching television together?" I give my wife the option of brining up the topic, and teh timing of discussing the subject. It signals to the counselor that there is something more to discuss, that he is missing.

I will unload on the counselor if I feel he or she is mistaken about something. "You may feel that I should bring up what is bothering me, but I am going to respect my wife's ideas of when to bring up what issues."

Some counselors like to give direct instructions. Some instructions are OK, and some I reject. I recommend that you have some phrses to politely twl the couselor, "Well that sounds like a good idea, but I am not feeling quite ready for that. Let me give that some though, and we can discuss it more next week."

Trying new approaches can help to change old habits.

Best wishes,

Quipper
Husband of 28 years, still struggling

<small>[ November 04, 2003, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>

Thanks Quipper, that is definately good advice on using a counselor. Hopefully if we go some of these issues will be worked on.

Is it wrong for me to want to go out with a friend or friends without her. I'm not talking about bar hopping or anything like that, just watching a football at someone elses house, playing golf or fishing. If I were to even go to a sports bar there would be hell to pay (she doesn't want us to drink unless we are with each other, I mean just having a beer). She's gone out of town to entertain clients of her company by taking them out and has had wine to drink, but that doesn't count for some reason?! Heck she's said she couldn't handle me having a job where I have to travel, but its ok for her and I'm ok with it. I TRUST HER. She even made the stupid statement that her mistrust and jealousy shows how much she cares for me. OMG!

I have wondered if some people mistrust because they are things they themselves do and expect that their signicant other will do the same.

I know that jealousy is all about a persons self image. It has nothing to do with anyone else. But if you continously attack because of your jealousy no matter how much understanding you receive, it will wear down until it's to late. Strange, it's all about the fear of losing and all it does is cause them to lose everyone they supposedly care about.

Hurting Promise Keeper also mentioned a wife constantly belittling and comparing herself to other women is something that goes with jealousy. This is very hard to deal with and is just as destructive. I am constantly trying to compliment her but it is either to late, falls on deaf ears or I am lying (I know it is her low self esteem). I hate being called a liar, but am growing used to it, which is bad.

I know I keep bringing up more and more stuff, but I have had zero outlet besides our arguments and it feels good to let it out.

I am going to look at the Promise Keepers website.

Yes counseling made me take a harder look at myself. My counselor would call me out on the things I did. In the beginning it was hard to accept. Kind of like when you let your wife know that her jealousy is hurtful because its not true.... I felt that I was justified in my actions...But I never really focused on the consequences. Like I said I've been in a few relationships before this man that I am engaged too. I beleive that I drove them away with my way of being. They too felt closed in and hurt by my words. They felt that they could do nothing that would make me happy.

I think that it was those experiences that taught me more about myself. Knowing what not..Is knowing what not to do. I recognize the pattern so I will try to avoid it as much as possible.

I also realized that I needed to put more trust in my fiance. I can't blame him if there is temptation out there. There will always be. she may have to realize that there are things beyond her control and she has to learn to give in and realize that when its done and over...you will still be at her side.

Q

<small>[ November 04, 2003, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: Querida ]</small>

Dear Alex,

Your OMG, at your wife is expressing love, through jealousy, could be canged to "Thanks for expressing your love for me honey, can you think of any additional ways, that might be more direct fo me? How about A, B or C?"

This is most of a recent post I made to Danielle V, Under Resolving Conflict.


START
One thing that comes to mind is under Negotiations, a post by TOOMUCHCOFFEEMAN, is 180 Degree Divorce Busters. One of the ideas there is not to check on your spouse. Reading the 180 Degree Concepts may give you some positive ideas.

A direct statement of a request is sometimes helpful in a marriage. The request that comes to mind is for her to say to him, "Honey, I want you to know that I am being fathful to you. I want you to feel comfortable about my being true to you. I understand that jeoulusy is part of love, and I appreciate your showing your love for me through expressions of concern about anything that may indicate anything tending about temptation. But I feel you are really anxious about my being true. How can I do better at giving you a more comfortable feeling. I feel that I am not doing a good job at letting you know that I am true to you, because you seem so up tight about it. Really, you are so nervous, that it makes me a little uncomfortable. Please think of what I can do to make you feel more comfortable about letting you know that I am being true to you, so we can both be more comfortable
END OF POST TO DANIELLE V

Perhaps we can work on some approaches and tones of voice, for the time when you feel uncomfortable with your wife's jealousy.

Trying to say that the standared that your wife applies to you, is the same standard that should apply to her, has some logic to it. However, a better logic, is "If you are feeling my love is inadequate, then let me show you some love." Find some way that is pleasing to her, to show your love for your wife. ask her, "How can I better show you my love? How can I give you more conficence in my love?"

Be ready to interrpt anything you are doing. As you say, look away form the TV. When you start to watch a movie on TV, then wreite down the title, so you already plan to be interrupted, and later go rent the movie, to finish the part you missed. Be ready to be happy about being interrupted. Pre-plan some ways to show your love. Have a list of ways to show your love, and keep adding on to the ways, when she displays jeoulousy, display love.

Have other methods ready also. A good salesman has a file in which he keeps a list of jokes. Start collecting jokes to use with your wife, to make her laugh. It takes practice to tell a joke so peole laugh.

Have a listing of things to be angry about. "Boy, what really makes me angry is these home immprovement contractors. They take your money, take forever to fix your house, then they do it wrong." of "That reminds me, that today, a guy came across three lanes to cut in front of me, then slammed on his brakes, to make a right turn, as soon as he got in my lane. I had to slam on my brakes. I was so MADD!!!"

Post some phraseology.

What helps, or what seems worse?

Do you have a place to keep a list of phrases for differnet occasions? I keep Two large manilla enevelopes at work. Inside, is 8-1/2" X 11" paper, with one piece folded in half, keeping 5 or 10 pages together. I write the subject on the bottom of the folded holder page, and I spread out the stacks of papers, so I can see each title. I have maybe 30 titles. I have prepared phrases and stratgegies for any situation that seems to irritte me. I take responsibility for changing what irritates me. I have a hadicapped fellow who I telephone, who works with me for an hourly rate, and I go over the situations, and create more phrases to try, and try them, and come back to my list, to try to improve things.

Quipper
Husband of 28 years, raised 2 challenging kids, still struggling.

<small>[ November 04, 2003, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>

My head is a mess now. I told my wife that we need counseling last night after another argument(although I kept my tone low and let her get it out). We had a fire drill at work and she wanted to know how many women came out of the building and what they looked like. I could not give her an honest answer because I truly did not know. I wasn't paying that much attention and could have cared less. She didn't believe me and accused me of hiding something. She finally concluded that there was some hot chick there and I didn't want to tell her. After that it led to "I must be having an affair". I can only offer her different ways of showing me her love so much. It just doesn't seem to get through. It always comes back to me, I have shown her enough affection, etc... It's like the only way she will stop is if I tell her I am sorry and that I will be better. Which in turn continues the viscious cycle.

Anyway I lost my train of thought. She does not want to go to counseling at all. She feels like she will be attacked and does not want to listen to it. I tried explaining that this was not the case. In the end she thought it would be better if we split up (I had know idea the marriage was on such a thin wire). Although she said this, she still asked me why I was not being caring towards her. Almost like a game. I am tired of this. I offered help for the marriage and she turned it down. She's the one who wants me to change and the marriage to change, but at the same time wants to keep the status quo it seems. I don't know. She still said this morning we probably need to split and that it was up to me. Although she said it was a mistake for us to get married in the first place. Its like if I agreed the world would come to an end, but if I disagree nothing will change it seems.

Just a thought - copy your post and our responses and show it to her. Maybe she'll realize how twisted and insecure she is, and see that she needs immediate help. Probably not, you will likely be acused of manipulation, domineering, control............. My heart goes out to you as even my W never got that bad.

I'm not sure who I feel worse for, her or me. I can't imagine the pain and turmoil she must be going through. I actually do think she may be better off without me. It seems having a man in her life causes great consternation.

Dear Alex,

Are you following the Love Diet? Seems like your wife may be palying you for some more attention.

When my wife gets off on a tangent, I will change the subject. Do you have a list of topics to talk about, if she gets off on a tangent?

You might practice answering quesitions quickly, with ranges of info, so that it does not give the impression that you are hiding something.

W. How many women wen out on the fire drill?

H. Somewhere between 5 or 20, I was more concerned about getting back to my work that got interrupted.

W. What did they look like?

H. Some were white, some wer oriental, some were African American. I recall a blue dress and an white dress. What are we having for dinner? Can I help you fix anything?

W. I think you are hiding an affair.

H. I'm not having an afair. I am trying to be a better husband for you. What wouild you like me to improve? What would you like me to change? What do you wnat me to leave unchanged? What would you like me to make disappear? How can we re-arraange the furniture to make the house more comforable?

When you were calm about the affair question, your wife started talking divorce, to see if she could get a rise out of you. My reading is for you to find more ways to give her attention. Look ate 180 Degree Divorce Busters, also

Quipper
Husband of 28 years, raised 2 challenging kids, still struggling

<small>[ November 05, 2003, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>

I don't beleive that she wants to split up with you. I beleive she is testinmg you to see if you agree. If you wold have said yes to it..I'm sure she would have accused you even faster of having someone else.

You may want to call her bluff and tell her that being apart may be a good idea. Only because the constant accusations and jealousy is unbearable. You may want to tell her that you wont come back until she agrees to change something. Let her know you love her but that you dont want to live this way.

She is being verbally abusive and you are concerning yourself too much with her feelings...how about yours? Take it from me...If you dont allow her to do it to you....she wont. If she values your marriage...she will feel it when you arent around and appreciate the man that you are.

She doesnt want to do do anything? then she is compromising your feelings. You shouldnt have to compromise your integrity because she likes living like this. You make a choice and be firm...she'll get it.

Q

Dear Q,

Your words better express much of what I was trying to say to Alex. Thanks for the woman's touch.

Quipper
Husband of 28 years, raised 2 challenging kids, still struggling

<small>[ November 05, 2003, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>

Hello. I believe you are right she is looking for more attention. We talked quite a bit last night (talking not fighting what a new concept, at least I've still got my sense of humor), I told her we can beat this if we both try. She said she just doesn't feel loved anymore and that I haven't shown her the same emotions as before the honeymoon(2 years ago). She still doesn't want to go to counseling for fear of being attacked or the counselor telling her that men are going to be men, they are more visual, and she doesn't agree with that and never will. She thinks that if I admit to knowing the difference between an attractive and unattractive woman then I am checking them out. She said that she states what most women feel but keep to themselves. I'm not sure if I agree with this logic. If I got upset everytime I thought she was looking (not ogling) at an attractive man (which I know happens) I would go insane. I feel like this type of relationship fosters secrets, I think more so on her part because I don't interrigate her. If she thought a guy was attractive I would rather her be able to tell me, than keep it from me because its been deemed wrong on my part. Interesting, I think I'm starting to answer a lot of my own questions. I feel a lot better posting here. You guys are really helping a lot. Thank you.

Are you sure you still love her?

Her words - you don't love me as before - could mean:
she feels your love is going away
or
she doesn't want to change THAT kind of love (you had at the beginning) when we're full of excitement, passion, no monotony...

rejecting counselling?
maybe because you'd go there to solve HER problem?

do you really hear her when telling you 'I cannot feel your love'?
I mean - do you really try that she feels it?

or - can she if it isn't there (as before)?

I'd like her to read this and write her version of this conflicts...

Are you sure you still love her?

Her words - you don't love me as before - could mean:
she feels your love is going away
or
she doesn't want to change THAT kind of love (you had at the beginning) when we're full of excitement, passion, no monotony...

rejecting counselling?
maybe because you'd go there to solve HER problem?

do you really hear her when telling you 'I cannot feel your love'?
I mean - do you really try that she feels it?

or - can she if it isn't there (as before)?

I'd like her to read this and write her version of this conflicts...

Yes I still love her. I always get a warm feeling when I think of the good times we spend together. I want to grow old with her. I know that despite our obstacles, we do work well together.

I believe she wanted the passion to always be the way it was in the beginning. Yes.

I know she feels this way. I have tried to explain to her that we both have different things that need to be addressed in an objective environment. I told her I have no intention of going in there and trying to fix her. I just want to talk in a comfortable environment. It would be with a pastor in our church who is supposed to be very good. I have issues and have never denied it.

I believe her when she says she cannot feel it. That is why I would like for both of us to go to MC. It is a cycle we have entered and I want to get out of it.

Her version would probably be different these are my feelings. She would be very upset knowing that I have discussed this outside the box. I'm sure she probably has a forum or a confidant she talks with. This is why I believe a good neutral ground where we can talk would be best. These are huge issues that are going to take a lot of effort to work on.

Yes, again I do love my wife. As we speak I am giving her more attention(not forced), that she feels she hasn't received. We'll see...

Belonging - I understand your concern about her side of the story and agree that there are always two views. But, she isn't posting here, he is. He appears to be willing to address the issue instead of dancing around it.

alx - Don't allow W to blameshift her hangup onto you. If you are truthful about what you are telling us the issue is hers to solve or deny. You have close parallels to my situation so I can empathize. She will likely do all she can to convince any counselor that you are the root of her problems, and to portray you as uncaring, a roving eye, and manipulating. Have nothing of it and don't be discouraged. Insist she be accountable and face the sin of jealousy head on, acknowledge it as sin and controlling, and do whatever necessary to get past it. Don't give in to thoughts of condemnation and guilt. Hold your ground and show tough love. God be with you!

She makes mistake, that's obvious.
The more your 'awaying' (just my feeling), the more she's pushing and asking for love, and vice versa...

The easiest answer is &#8211; she&#8217;s so insecure, possessive and controlling&#8230;
And could be the most wrong answer&#8230;

Maybe she has a real reason to feel that way&#8230; you cannot admit it here, moreover to yourself, or you are not aware of it at all&#8230; more possibilities&#8230;

Anyway&#8230; You know she'd be upset but still you had to post here for you have your needs as well, correct?

What I'd like you to do is to answer some questions (answer truly to yourself):

If she wasn't like this when you were dating and in the first couple of months/years when married!&#8230;
And I have feeling she wasn't like this (correct?)&#8230;
&#8230;So &#8211;

You also admit having some issues... what are they?
What about your loyalty, honesty, sincerity&#8230;?
Does she trust you? If not, what&#8217;s happened that she lost it?

Also, something must have happened that she stopped feeling your love.
What&#8217;s about your loyalty? (Were you on her side when she expected/was logical to be?)

Btw, how many evenings out you had with your friends (before), and how many you want now (and why)?

Of course, HPKeeper...
BUT
knowing one side of story makes encouraging it 'by default'... and that can cause some negative consequences for the side we cannot see... e.i. for both of them in this case...

or - to be self-critical as much as we can...

Interesting that you say sin. Our pastor preached about the sin of jealousy this past Sunday. You're right, I have to be careful of taking the blame. I get angry with myself, because I'm afraid to face it head for fear of being alone if she does not want to address it. She never seems to be happy unless she is with her friends or co-workers(at least on the outside). Which tells me her insecurities are tearing her apart. I mean there has got to be things that she would like to do but avoids them because of me. Certain movies or outings with friends(that she's jealous of) we avoid because she doesn't want me to fall prey to. I would think that deep down she may hold that against me. Talk about a double edged sword.

I don't know if this is relevant or not, but she is very sex oriented. How should I say... she has a strong libido. She had quite a few relationships before she met me in between her first marriage and myself. She and her mom used to talk about men and there different traits quite openly and she's quick to ask me a question about the male anatomy, but I can't even acknowledge women have breasts. I don't know how this fits in but it bugs me. She has said that her past was a big mistake and she regrets it.

BTN. I understand where you are coming from. I look at my posts and I feel like I've been beating up on her and she's not able to defend herself. The jealousy was there before the marriage. As I stated way back in the posts it should have been addressed then before we got married. I don't show emotions like I should. Runs in my family, not an excuse, but I am aware of it. I tell her everyday that I love her, but I don't express it well enough.

Do I side with her? This is an interesting question. There have been times where I recognized both sides, and she wanted me to take her side completely. This occurred when dealing with my family. Not in front of them, but when she and I were talking. She and my sister tolerate each other. Two totaly different personalities. I have never taken someone elses side in front of her. I wouldn't do that. I almost punched out a fair worker who copted an attitude with her a few weeks ago.

I am very loyal. I am honest with her (there are repercussions as I have explained for being honest). I did have some money issues after we got married, which I know were hard and still are somewhat. But they are getting better. She does have very well paying job. Our two incomes are around six figures so I don't think this should be an issue. I am not the greatest with money, but am working to better myself. She is excellent with money. She can pinch better than anyone I have ever met. She is very giving when it comes to friends and relatives. She will always find a way to help people.

After I met her I avoided going out with friends unless she was present. That was my fault. I should have gone out, but she would get very upset if I wanted to do something with others. (my fingers are getting tired today) I take back about wanting to go to sports bars. I thought about that and don't think bars are a good idea. But a game of golf or something, yes I miss that.

I'm not stupid. I not going to run off and apply some bad advice to my situation. I know her, I know what the problems are. I am being very delicate with this. I do analyze both sides.

We need counseling.

My other issue is that I am not assertive enough and have always been somewhat of a pushover. My wife says I am too trusting.

As long as you (try to) see your own contribution to the problem, there is hope...
Hope your wife will do the same...

Good news. My wife called about setting up an appt. with a councelor. Definately a start in the right direction.

Great - now hold her to it. Accountability is very important here. Be very open and honest with the counselor and don't allow your W to sugarcoat the issue or blameshift. I'm praying for you both.

I posted this under new topic but the more I thought about it this sounds so much like my H and I, I thought it important to post it here. This very well could be us and in reading all of the post from alx1970 I find it difficult to believe that he is blameless in the way his wife feels, only because of my own experience. I decided this morning to come back into marriage builders for help. It's been way to long since I have been here and my problem with jealousy has not been any better in the last year. I read the post from alx1970 and I could be his wife. However, he says he has never given his wife any reason to be jealous. My husband on the other hand has. Before we were married I knew that at one time he had a sex addiction, but he was open and honest about it from the beginning. Almost 2 years ago I found that he was searching and visiting escort service websites. I went belistic. You see I was secure in our relationship. He always put me on a pedestal and I thought he was my knight and shining armor. He pulled the rug out from underneath me. He claims he didn't do anything, but I found a post that he was inquiring on how to hide money from his SO. He says he never made that post. He has never admitted that he did anything wrong. You see, I was not insecure or jealous before this happened. We went through counseling for awhile and I think it would have helped me if he would be honest and just admit what he did. But, he says he will never admit he did anything because he didn't. I feel betrayed and it has detroyed my self-esteem. We have since moved to a new town and I really thought that it would help. I thought time would heal. But, I think I am worse. I try so hard not to be jealous but am always wondering if he is with another women. I know he loves me and if it weren't for that I would have divorced when this first happened. I want to save this marriage and am terribly afraid that I am driving him away with my constant questions. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

It would be a shame to keep going through life harboring this problem. If your H screwed up once, in a minor way, over a long period of time, I suggest allowing him some grace. If this was a consistent pattern of inappropriate behavior I would counsel differently. You will eventually drive him away and your worst fears will be realized. Isn't it easier to face this sin (jealousy is a sin) now and be done with it? Have you fully communicated your feelings to H? Are you fulfilling his EN's? Please don't CHOOSE to continue this way. Your M is too precious to sacrifice on the altar of unfounded jealousy. May God's grace be with you.

John 16:33.

hurting Promise Keeper,
You are right, it is a shame to keep harboring this problem. My faith has allowed me to forgive him, but I sometimes wonder if he has forgiven himself. I try to talk to him about this but he shuts me out and thats when my jealousy really rares its ugly head. We need to talk about this and finally put it to rest. We tried through counseling but every time we tried to address this issue he would get angry and walk out. I still am afraid that this addiction will come back to haunt us and if we can't talk about it then how are we suppose to get past these feelings of insecurity? I have always heard that once an addict always an addict, but he says he is cured. He says he only visited the sites out of curiousity, so my feelings are unjustified. Isn't this playing with fire? Would you go to a bar if you were alcholic? I know that my jealously is a sin and I continue to pray about this daily. I know John 16:33 and pray for peace as well. I want to believe that I am fulfilling all of his needs, but have my doubts. We both want to stay married and get through this, but I am not sure if he isn't just staying because he is afraid of being alone. Thanks for your advice. I am trying...

I'm on your side so keep trying to openly and honestly communicate with him. Have you folks tried a Christian counselor familiar with Biblical precepts concerning addiction (on his part) and forgiveness (on your part)? Maybe he will be more prone to relax and open up with a church counselor. I am very familiar with counseling addiction problems, and they can't be treated as a disease. Addiction is a spiritual problem and only Jesus offers everlasting deliverance. Do you folks have a marriage enrichment class in your church? If not there are many good Christian marriage sites on the internet. Keep your eyes on the prize!

I believe your husband is very ashamed about his past behavior. He probably sees it as a weakness on his part.

How would you react if he came out and completely admitted to it (truthfully)? I think he is more afraid of loosing you than anything else. Have you made threats to him while having jealous feelings? What is he afraid of?

I can honestly say I have never watched pornography or come close to cheating on my wife. If I had I would address it here, otherwise the forum wouldn't do me any good. I know the way I react towards her jealousy only antagonizes it though. It becomes a viscious cycle. My wife's jealousy comes from way before me.

Yes I do believe my husband is ashamed of his behavior. I just wish he understood that by being honest about what he has done would only make me trust and love him more and allow me to start the healing process and be able to trust him again. We have been through so much there is absolutely no reason for him to fear me leaving him. I don't threaten to leave him, I believe in our commitment to each other. If there is a threat there I am not realizing that I am doing it and will certainly pay closer attention. This happened over a year ago, and I just want to trust him as I did before this happened. How can you trust someone again when you know they are not being honest with you? He wants me to trust him again, then he needs to trust me enough to be honest. And, yes we did go to Biblical Counseling, it was the only thing in the last year that helped me feel better. Just when I started feeling pretty again and sure of myself again, we moved to another state and have not yet resumed the counseling. I get angry with myself for the way I feel. I find myself praying for him to remain faithful to the Lord and then maybe he will ramain faithful to me. How sick is that? Everytime I turn this over to the lord, something happens that will make me turn around and grab it back. I want so desperately to go back to counceling and feel strongly that it has to be a spiritual setting. We have yet to find a church here to call home. And until we do, it seems as if everything is on hold. Several months ago we talked about renueing our vows in the church and actully attending the 6 week pre-marriage counseling. This really helped me feel better, but he now keeps coming up with one excuse after another for waiting. The move, no home church etc...C.S. Lewis said "The best is perhaps what we understand the least" Job 23:10 comes to mind. Thanks for your continued input. It is a blessing. I truly want to get past the viscious cycle.

alx1970-I was wondering if you and your wife have seen the counselor yet and if so, how did it go? I pray that it works out for you. It sounds as if she needs constant reassurance. Unfortunately, I know how that feels. If he is not praising me, I think he has someone else. I pray for myself as well. Until reading your post, I had no idea the pain I was causing him, I only knew the pain I was in. How selfish! You have helped me see me through his eyes. Thank you.

We have an appointment with a councelor at our church this coming Tuesday. I am looking forward to it, not sure she is though. I think she is afraid of facing her fears. I think you and your husband will make it, there is an undercurrent in your writing of great love between the two of you. You both have to learn to trust one another and it is very hard sometimes.

Do you have to belong to a certain church to seek counceling? The pastor we are going to see actually isn't a member of our church.

In reading through all of the post to you, someone suggested that you show this to your wife, I agree. Sometimes we can express ourselves better in writing than verbally. I believe that if she was to read the things you have written she would understand how important she is to you and know as well how important saving your relationship is.

We were attending counseling through Christian Biblical Counseling Center before our move. However, my H quit after a while, but I continued. Because he believes this is my problem and I am the one that needs to work through it and get beyond it. It got to a point where I felt as if it was all about me and not about us. I just want him to take resposibility for his actions. He now is showing no real interest, but I would like to go back as I do believe it did help me to deal better with my insecurities. There was a connection from the beginning and I am having a hard time finding the same kind of service here. (maybe I am spoiled) I guess a pastor is an option I really hadn't thought about. I will suggest this to my H as well as check the internet for services in my area. Thanks

I didn't have intention to post here again (said enough), but this sentence 'provoked' me to do again:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jan_goingcrazy:
Because he believes this is my problem and I am the one that needs to work through it and get beyond it</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Jan, I so much recognized myself in your story... and fully understand you (that's why I asked Alex some things...)

Please, don't think you are 'paranoic' or this is result of your 'sick-jelaousy'!
This is your guts and even if he's totally innocent - he doesn't send you 'signals' to feel secure about him... and then it's his problem, or communicating skills of both of you...

Hope you'll find out nothing bad!

After months and months of sufferings, dilemmas, his accusing me of paranoia and other awful things, and after spying, I found out about A...

I 'died' that day of pain and - revived for learning I'm sane...

I do hope in your case is just about communicating...

Take care ANYWAY! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thank you so much for your words of encouragement. The more I read, the more I realize I should change my screen name because I am not going crazy. I am at present going to use every resource available to me to get beyond this. The continued advice I am recieving here is soooooooooooo helpful. I hope it continues. Thank you for your post. I have to hold on to the hope that it is just lack of communication. I pray for this every day. God Bless and happiness to you.

Jan. Have you seen or heard of the book "The 5 Love Languages"? Very good book about the different communication types that people respond to. You guys may not be communicating love to each other in ways the other person hears or feels it. I highly recommend the book. We are using the book and it does seem to help quite a bit.

I read the post about pornography. My ex-wife and I watched it together some and I can definately say it probably had negative impact on the marriage. We never fought over it but deep down I think it affects both people knowing their spouse is getting aroused by watching the opposite sex strut around naked and then comparing themselves. It may not condemn it in the bible, but I think it has a negative impact on the core of a relationship. You may think your spouse is ok with it and they may be, but I don't think it is benefiting the relationship any. I think it is different if you are looking at the human body from an objective viewpoint "artistically or medicinally" and not trying to stimulate yourself sexually in front of your partner. Maybe I've just gotten prude... It's just that every marriage I've seen where there was pornagraphy involved whether consentual or not, there were always problems and pain on one persons part. If you're single it's up to you, but married I think it's different.

Alex,
I had not heard of this book, but found it on Amazon yesterday and will be reading it soon. I think I have to agree with you that pornography is probably not the answer for us. A lot of this is about me and my insecurities about his past. It seems as if there is always something that keeps feeding these insecurities. Most recently his announcement that he will be going to London for 10 days. After his promise that he would not travel this long without me. I am trying to find a way to be able to make the trip with him, but have several challenges to overcome. Please wish me luck. I thought a lot yesterday about you and your appointment to see a counselor last-night. I prayed for you that your W kept the appointment. How did it go? On Monday I started reading the Purpose Driven Life and am very excited about what I have read so for. I am hopeful that this will help me accomplish my goal of living a Christ like life without the jealousies and insecurities. If you haven't looked at this book, it may be something you and your W could explore together. My H is open to doing this after glimpsing through the book. I feel as if its a start to something wonderful. I look forward to hearing how your appointment went.

"God Bless"
Jan

Hey Jan. Thank you so much for your prayers. The counceling session went very well. My wife was very accepting of using a biblical based foundation for working on the marriage. The pastor did recommend reading "A Purpose Driven Life", so we'll be purchasing the book shortly. He also recommended reading the story of Solomon. I think we were both looking for a more spiritual answer and hopefully this is it.

Wow. You said a prayer for us. That is very touching. Thank you again. I will say a prayer for you and your husband. You really sound like a wonderful person and I know you will over come all of this. God never puts more on our plate than we can handle.

Alex,

I am very happy for you. I also wanted to recommend another book that I go back to often when I am feeling that I can't take it anymore. "The Mystery of God's Will" by Chuck Swindoll. This book is by far one of the most powerful books I have ever read.
I have started the "Purpose Driven Life" and my H and I decided that this was to important to do over 40 days, so we will do this over 40 weeks. It was actually his idea. This will give us a week to really reflect on each day and we are hopeful that it will give us a better understanding of each others values. My pastor calls me "the prayer warrier", so please know you and your W will continue to be in my prayers. Keep us posted on the progression of your counseling. I have a feeling there will be a happy ending to your story. You are heading in the right direction.
Jan