FC,<BR>Superb job!!! Very proud of you. Until today, I didn't know that you were unequally yoked. But God is blessing your family because you are keeping true to Him. Yes, I know it seems like He has abandoned you. Yet, He has blessed you with everyone here on this forum. We ALL love you as does God. <P>You are always in my prayers. When I see you try so hard when you are having trouble trusting Him, it gives me that much more security to kow that He does answer prayer. Lately, I have had the thought run through my head more than I would like it to for me to get my revenge, particularly now since she is not sleeping in our bed and not treating me in the way that the Bible says she should. However, I am thankful for the little things: she prepared my plate on Sunday night, she talks to me more than she has been lately, she is still wearing her wedding ring.<P><P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

NO MORE CONTACT !!!<P>He's laying the guilt trip on YOU ... don't fall for it this time. Like I told you, he knows exactly the things to say to get under your skin .... don't let him do it anymore.

Wow, FC, you are doing so well!!!<BR>This ex OM of yours sounds like a manipulative, controlling person who is only interested in his own needs. Why can't he love you enough to respect your decision about your life?<BR>I'm starting to believe that the emotional difficulty you are having is not withdrawal from his love but a result of the damage he has and is still inflicting on you. Please stay away from him for the sake of your own well-being!

Um, do I feel rotten, or what! Friends, when I wrote that post, after I talked to OM, I kept it very short because I was running out the door to work. Unfortunately, I'm on the move again right now and can't write a long one (but will asap). The thing is, that last post I wrote didn't give the full picture. Not because I was lying, but because I was short on time. What I didn't say is that a lot more happened in the 3-hour conversation than just what I posted (Like some I love you (s) and some I miss you (s) ). I can't take all the nice things you said, not yet. Just as soon as I get a chance (sick baby screeching non stop and will not sleep! Work for work, messy house, no food in the house, a ton of papers to grade, all that kind of stuff that is taking all of my attention right now) I'll tell the rest of the story.

FC:<P>I didn't post to you earlier, but I will now.<P>You know why the no-contact rule exists. You're screwing up your recovery. And with the artifical timeline you've given your husband, you're setting yourself up for failure.<P>You've agreed not to have contact with him several times before. You must stick to this and make it through withdrawal before you have any hope of beginning to restore your marriage.<P>You've got to:<P>Change email. Pitch any "instant messaging" service. Change your phone number. Don't open letters, give them to husband.<P>Without these precautions, you will probably fail again. I know that you don't want this to control the way you live, but you need to do it. In the same lines that cancer patients need chemotherapy and radiation to kick their disease, you need to be taking these extraordinary measures to guard against relapses.<P>Again, I'm going to urge you to call Steve. I don't think you're going to be capable of making an honest go of this on your own. Please consider it, for your sake, your marriage's sake, and the sake of your family.<P>God bless.<p>[This message has been edited by K (edited September 01, 1999).]

fc,<P>One other thought. If you're going to put a timeline on your marriage, you should make it in a way that gives you the chance to recover... <P>for example:<P>I will work on my marriage for one year without any contact from the OM<P>or<P>I will work on my marriage for 6 months, after I get through withdrawal from the OM (this implies no contact).<P>If you can hold yourself to these goals, you'll have added incentive to refrain from contact with the OM, regardless of how you feel about your marriage.

Okay, I wasn’t a stone cold ice princess, but I did stand relatively firm on the fact that I am not leaving H, that H and I are “working on it” and that I could offer no reason for OM to remain single. But, to be totally honest, the phone call did go beyond that. We talked for a long time about S and how he is doing. OM asked lots of questions and shared his feelings about S. He also talked about his life, school, work, and family. I talked some about my life and my work and about S. OM and I talked about missing each other and about loving each other and how difficult the w/d is. I asked about his date. He shared that it was nice to have something to look forward to, but he admitted that it was just something to do to try and replace the pain of loosing S and me. He said the date didn’t lead to a second and it was little more than a date. He didn’t need to tell me that, he didn’t need my permission, but I was glad that he did tell me. It was a reality check one hand (life goes on sans FC), and a comfort on the other (I’ve not been replaced – how selfish of me to worry about that, I know).<P>As I said before, it didn’t feel like a set back for me. I don’t think it was for him either – he actually said he regretted the call. In the past it would have been a set back for me. This particular phone call was actually healing, in a strange sort of way. Yes, I still love him, and he loves me. No, that kind of relationship is not appropriate for a married woman. No, there are not intentions or plans for another call or contact of any sort. Yes, I am still committed to surviving withdrawal. Some may argue that the call has put me back to day one. In past calls I’d concur. But I know what happened in my heart, and I’m definitely not back to day one. In fact, I suppose I can see my progress given the fact that I’m not experiencing and emotional regression.<P>The true difficulty in the call from OM was telling H about it. I told H that I’d let him know about any and all contact from OM. Well, that most certainly will NOT be happening in the future IF OM contacts me again. H didn’t take it well – in fact it led to a huge, UGLY blow out between H and I. It culminated in H shouting over and over, right in my face, that he hated me. He sobbed that I’d never love him again and that he hated me. In the ugly shouting match that we had, I pushed him about counseling. I told him I didn’t believe he wanted to repair our marriage because if he did he’d walk through hell in high water to do so and that includes counseling. He got furious at me for that. I actually thought he might slap me (not his kind of thing to do). His veins were popping out of his neck and his face was beat red! He screamed at me about how selfish it is of me to “badger” him about therapy when I know he hates the idea. BTW, I’ve been very passive about therapy. For a long time I pleaded with him, then I gave up and only occasionally remind him that I think it is needed. He just went ballistic about it. I didn’t give up though. Once I was started on it I just let it rip. I told him that if he didn’t get his A@@ into therapy with me that we were doomed to fail and it would be his own damn fault. Okay that was harsh, but guess what. . . . he’s got an appointment. Anyway, that was 2 days ago that we had the fight and we really aren’t talking much now. I was sick last night so I went to be as soon as I got home from work. He is playing sports tonight. We won’t get to see each other until tomorrow. I’ll keep you posted. As for now, I’ve got to go to work. Gosh, I had such high expectations for writing to each of your individually. Please forgive me and I’ll get on the ball with that reply ASAP. <BR>FC

Never mind, fc.<p>[This message has been edited by jt (edited September 01, 1999).]

FC<P>I just registered on this site to communicate with you. I have been lurking here since before you joined and have followed your postings since then. First, you have been providing some very valuable insight here in that you are giving many of the betrayed a first hand view of the denial withdrawl stage of an affair. This comment is going to be a little orthogonal to your current thread direction but somehow it seems appropriate. You are really pushing you H very hard now. Do you want to lose him? Or is this a test? This ties in with what I want to say to you and how you are reacting.<P>What has prompted me to finally register and respond after reading your posts for months is your posts about your faith. Given you last posting about now would be really good time to regain some. What you have been saying about your faith has bothered me because I believe you are missing some very important aspects of what is happening in your life. I hope you will at least consider what I have to say and I hope that it causes you take another look at the current situation.<P>Permit me to review a few things as I see them. Basically, you say in your biography that your husband is really at fault for this situation and that he is even responsible for not stopping you from responding to a letter from the other man asking you out. I would like to offer a different slant. What could he have done? Yell at you? You have already stated that you could not have taken it well. Order you to leave the job? I doubt that you take orders well. Go to the school and turn the offending student in? I'll bet your response would have been positive to that maneuver. Perhaps, he hoped that you loved him enough not to do this but felt he had no right to make any out right demands in light of his affair? That would be my bet. What can he do to win in this? Nothing but yet you want him to try.<P>You have told your husband in no particular order that:<P>1. You don't love him.<BR>2. He is lousy in bed.<BR>3. That he does not meet any of your "needs".<BR>4. That if he stays with you that he will NEVER father a child. (You explained to all here that this will be you only child.)<BR>5. You have hit men's greatest fear, that the child his wife is carrying is not his.<BR>6. You lied to him about the child.<BR>7. You complain that he works too much but you like the lifestyle he provides.<BR>8. You are demanding that he change but no comments are made about you changing.<BR> I don't know what else.<P>You have gutted this man from his groin to his brain, spilled his guts on the floor and stomped on them and yet he is still there. He hasn't quit he's even agreed to counseling. HE LOVES YOU! Absolutely amazing!!! Do you have any idea how few men or women in his position would still be standing there?? The odds are amazing. Even K, who is probably 1 in a 1000, had other children with his wife to consider. Your H has no such obligation.<P>With this brief summary of the situation, I would like to suggest to you that God has been looking out for you. He has given you a man that can and has taken such treatment and remained. He is not perfect and will never be. He is quiet when you talk. He is probably in many ways the opposite of you. But he is who you need and he is also your opportunity for your final happiness. Because he is there you can learn to love him and if you do, you will learn to love yourself again. That is what will give you peace. If he had just thrown in the towel and left, you would never have that chance. The OM cannot do that for you nor can anyone else. Only your H offers you that possibility. Do you think that is an accident? Maybe, but I don't . Do you suppose that he finally realized how much you mean to him through his affair? Seems possible to me but suggests a plan. For there is no amount of saving face that could make someone endure what he is going through. In fact from a male point of view he has the perfect out with family and friends. (It is entirely your fault; the affair, the child, etc. ) He has not used that. <P>I would like to suggest to you that you are one very lucky woman. You have been given a chance by God to do it right. I think you know this or you would not have been so upset that your H felt hopeless when you talked to him about the other man. You would not be trying to do the "right" thing. Your H is the gift and the trial. Think about it. Your prayers have been answered and you been given what you "need" not what you "want". <P>You mentioned that perhaps you will gain some maturity out of this mess. I once had it explained to me about maturity. It is the difference between "needing what we want and wanting what we need". I have teenagers and they will absolutely "die" if they don't get this pair of jeans or the car tonight etc. They are immature. They don't need these things they want them.<P>I hope you consider what I have said. And please listen to K, Maya, rjr#2 and many others here who have the experience and your best interests at heart. And maybe give your H some credit. You don't know how devastated he was to find out that you had contact with the OM again and talked of your love for OM. It is very tough to take. Yet you must continue to be honest with him.<P>God Bless You.

*Bravo*! Just Learning, I think your name is inaccurate... it's clear you have already learned a great deal.<P>FC, I've been pretty much staying away from your threads after making a few heartfelt attempts to add what I hoped were valid & helpful thoughts & observations...because I just didn't feel like I was getting through somehow, and I began to feel frustrated and ineffectual. (But I lurked! )<P>But I have to say that a lot of the folks here have made some powerful points: K pointing out that you have set yourself, and your marriage, up for failure, by setting an arbitrary deadline (don't you think *that* is hanging over your H's head like a ton of bricks??), and by not taking steps to prevent contact with OM... <P>...and Just Learning pointing out that your H has shown AMAZING strength, committment, fortitude, and yes, *love*, by accepting YOUR LOVER'S child as his own, and accepting YOU as his wife under these extreme circumstances... why? Because he knows first-hand that people can make terrible mistakes in judgement in their lives, and still be worthy of loving and worthy of forgiveness. <P>FC, I'd be the first to agree that he is not perfect - *but he is still hanging in there with you*, and in my book, that's a pretty damned powerful testament to his strength and committment to your marriage.<P>I think I've told you before, but I'm going to tell you again - I was as deeply involved with my OM as you are with yours - for YEARS - Dunc & I were a disaster, and I thought for a very long time I wanted out... and had to conclude later on that God must have been really looking out for ME, because so many chips fell in so many right ways, preventing me from chucking my marriage for my OM. I can feel nothing but awe, and a gratitude unlike any I have ever felt, that I must truly have had an angel sitting on my shoulder through it all.<P>The man I once thought was practically an emotional cripple, uninterested in 'me', and incapable of change or growth - my DuncanMac - turned out to be the most loving, sweet, devoted, passionate, STRONG, COMMITTED, MATURE man in the world. My love and respect for him are boundless (this is not a load of baloney - he *earned* them!!! ) And I have been fortunate enough to earn his love and respect again too. All of this stuff that we both thought was gone forever, nonexistant, was just buried under a mountain of anger, distrust, and fear. For the longest time it felt like we were digging at it with a teaspoon...but all of a sudden we were working with a bulldozer. It's gone. And more than worth the time and the pain it took to get here.<P>Please, FC - I truly understand that things are a real mess between you and your H right now. You're both hurting, neither of you trusts the other, farther than you could throw an ox, to have your best interests at heart - it's awful hard to be open & loving under these circumstances. But these circumstances *can be changed*. I know it because I've lived it.<P>All I'm suggesting is that I've seen glimpses of a great deal of love and strength in your H (as has Just Learning) - he's got his hangups about counseling etc, *but you're making progress*. This is the bedrock of a strong marriage. Steel that has been tempered by fire and the hammer is strong - and the same goes for *people* who have been tempered by hardship. <P>Give it a truly fair chance - don't just pay lip service to the idea as a formality - he's shown an awful lot of grit on your behalf, as Dunc did for me, and that's not such a bad thing in a life's partner. My bet is that little by little, he will begin to open up & flower emotionally, if he is ever given a genuine chance to feel safe with you again. Right now he is just in a chronic state of waiting for the next blow to fall. <P>Well...had my say! Good luck to you. And remember the angel sitting on your shoulder.<P>------------------<BR>~suse~<BR>Rome wasn't built in a day.<P><BR>[This message has been edited by suse (edited September 01, 1999).]<p>[This message has been edited by suse (edited September 01, 1999).]

Just learning, second suse's statement! Really good advice there, to say the least. <P>FC,<P>It's a struggle with you to push those emotions down for the OM, it sounds. You cannot help yourself when you talk to him in expressing those feelings, because he has shown you a side of love that you haven't experienced for awhile. He says all the right things and he brings feelings to the surface that have felt stuffed. Like a teenager, almost...just maybe? It's not real, let me tell you. Sure, you could go ahead and choose the OM should you desire, move you and your S to where the OM is, start a new life together. And what would happen? I could guarantee this: it would never be the same as when you were together with him. It would be a life chock full of responsibility, stress at (many) times, and not so romantic. Unfortunately, this is when you would get to meet the "REAL" OM. I cannot put him down, and say that his intentions are just to play on your emotions, because he probably feels like he is having a hard time living without you now. And that is because he is living with the romantic ideal of you and he together. But here you have an H that is showing you how much he truly cares about you (if he didn't, do you think he would be so upset at hearing about the phone call, he LOVES you, and is expressing his pain!) Your H has shown you in so many ways how much he truly loves you, and he's having a hard time dealing with this himself. In your description of his reaction regarding the phone call, I could see how much pain he was in. I think I posted to you on another thread about how much it hurts when the spouse is not showing their feelings, but with effort on both of our parts, it does all come together. If I were you, I would disconnect all forms of contact from the OM (such as K has stated), and go into the rebuilding process with your H 100%.

Just Learning DID make some excellent points to FC. But then again, perhaps they fall into the category of "valid & helpful thoughts & observations" suse mentioned which might not be considered by FC yet again. I hope not. <P>FC, here’s one more point, FWIW. You said...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> I don't feel as if I have stepped back in w/d (I never came out).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Actually, you haven’t even started withdrawal yet, because your affair is still going on. That’s probably how your H sees it, and likely why he was so angry. I don’t blame him a bit. And yet you say, because he reacted to your continuing affair predictably, you’re now going to start lying to him again? You had to come back here after everyone said how good you did, and in a small voice, admit you screwed up instead. Did you admit that to your H as well? You can’t just flick the honesty switch with him. Being honest in a marriage means telling your H everything, not just when it is convenient to you.<P>Remember the “half-assed” comment? It wasn’t me who initially made it, that was K, remember? And K is The Man. He was more kind than I would have been(I probably would have given you about a 20% [censored]... LOL). Yet I can see K’s frustration with you. Likely because he sees so much potential for recovery from you, and you’re just ignoring his wonderful advice.<P>That arbitrary deadline is a marriage killer. If you are not willing to give your H a real chance(meaning one without the OM waiting in the wings to whisk you and your and H’s son to the land of milk and honey you envision), then let him have four more months to find himself and cut him loose now. Today. Because the deadline, the unwillingness to change your phone number(and make the new one unlisted!!!) and email and dump the IM are all ways of telling your H, “I’m just counting the days.” I think he has shown remarkable restraint in the face of what you have put him through.<P>I’ve really got to stay away from this place...)<p>[This message has been edited by WhoDat (edited September 02, 1999).]

One more thing...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> I told him I didn’t believe he wanted to repair our marriage because if he did he’d walk through hell in high water to do so and that includes counseling.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I believe “walking through hell in high water” not only includes counseling, but also includes changing email and phone numbers, dumping IM programs, and handing unopened letters from OM to H to do with as he will. That, and anything else to avoid contact with the OM, and to actually work on repairing the marriage, and not just giving it lip service for another 120 days, 15 hours, 5 minutes and 42 seconds.<BR>

WhoDat-<P>Speaking of "completely irrational tirades": if you read the post carefully, suse is replying to Just Learning, not Long Suffering.<P>As far as I can tell, Long Suffering has not posted on *this* particular thread.<P>Hope you are having a better day!<P><p>[This message has been edited by jt (edited September 02, 1999).]

jt:<P>Doh! You are absolutely right! Thanks for pointing my error out to me! Just goes to show how easy it is to write something irrational when you’re just Not Paying Attention to what you’re reading!<P>My apologies to Just Learning for my error, and for not recognizing it(I have this tendency to latch on...)! Kinda shoots my own credibility in the foot now, doesn’t it? <BR>At least I got it right that there was good advice there!!! <P>Once again... good post from Just Learning. Many of the things there have been brought up to FC before(as I am sure JL knows from reading FC’s posts), and hopefully FC will take them to heart as constructive criticism on how to make her marriage all that it can be.<P><p>[This message has been edited by WhoDat (edited September 02, 1999).]

huh? did I miss something? I didn't notice any irrational tirades...??<P>(Whodat - *does your wife know where you are*?? )

Suse:<P>Don't worry... just me, posting brain-dead with about 3 windows open... I got a couple different posters confused. Decided to erase the confusion, but leave the apology. LOL... more confusion ensues... surprised??? <P>And yes... my W does know where I am... no secrets, remember!?! <p>[This message has been edited by WhoDat (edited September 03, 1999).]