Crisis Alert!!<P>I talked to my W today via phone at my office. In part of the conversation, she told me that her girl-friend Tamara is going to spend the night at our house since she has to work in the morning at the local bar. This Tamara is one of W's several single girlfiends that barhops with her. Tamara is also a bartender/waittress at the local bar where W spends so much time. This bar is a real hole-in-the-wall. There are some serious Forrest Gumps in there. Tamara just turned 21 (W is 30), is very unattractive (trust me on this one), and does not have much decency or morals. I know this because I have been to that bar many times with my W (I compromised) and have seen Tamara "in action".<P>What I'm concerned about is the statement my W made on the phone. She said that since I am sleeping on the couch, Tamara can sleep in the bed with her since there is no other place. I wanted to say "NO WAY!", but I bit my lip and held it in. <P>To me, this is unacceptable. Barhopping with these "trashy" women is one thing, but I cannot tolerate them being brought into my house and sleeping in my bed. I'm not saying there is anything more than friendship between my W and Tamara. I doubt it, but anything is possible.<P>Most likely, I am going to compromise on this. I'll agree to let her friend stay over, but she will have to sleep on the couch. I will either sleep in the bed with W or go sleep in bed with my 13-year-old stepson. Either way, I'm pretty sure this is going to anger my W, which is a major LB. But I've got to draw the line somewhere, even though this is only going to take my W back towards withdrawal.<P>Need advice on this one in a hurry!!

Well, this is nothing if not a challenge to you ... she's trying to find out: will you LB, or withdraw, or do something else that doesn't strike her just right. Since her taker is way at the forefront, why don't you find a way to let it happen just the way she wants it, unless you have some indication that lesbianism is in the picture. W may be worried that you are going to overstep <I>your</I> bounds in some way, and may feel the need for her friend to sleep there for security. <P>I'd say that while you are Plan A'ing, you can expect numerous strategies designed to drive you nuts and get her way ... which I think is you <I>out</I>. So, sit back and let time answer the question: Why is Tamara sleeping there?

Warewolf...I'm getting to like you more and more! I'm glad you kept your head during the storm! But, as you know, more crap to come.....<P>About tonight (which may be now as our time zones are probably so different)....DON'T let this other gal goad you! She's gonna try and they'll both try to "gang up" on you, most likely. <P>I agree....let Tamara sleep on the couch. You should offer to sleep with son or on the floor in son's room....don't sleep with wife until you are both ready.<P>I'm glad you're seeing a counselor and gonna see Dr. Harley....both will help. Another thing, your wife keeps saying "where were you a year ago?" and that leads me to think that SHE thinks it's too late. Subtley, and lovinging, and humbly, remind her that it's not too late and that a year ago you were messed up....but let's concentrate on now. Now is all we really have.<P>I also like your idea of courting her back into the marriage....lots of hard work, but a great thing to do. Remember.....actions speak louder than words to her.<P>Good luck and God bless you....keep us up to date.<BR>Aloha,<BR>Mrs. O<P>

My recommendation: quietly and firmly state that you are going to sleep on the floor in your stepson's room. And without making any fuss about it, without waiting to be asked, you can be hospitable and make up the couch for your wife's guest.<BR>

So WHAT happened last night? Inquiring minds do want to know?!<P>Mrs. O - thanks for your great insights! I've been tracking with this process and the advice you're giving is helpful for me also. I do need to know though where can I get information on "a plan" as you state on the first page?<P>Gotta run! <P>------------------<BR>Doing what you like is freedom... Liking what you do is happiness

Hey Warewolf.....How's it going? Inquiring minds want to know!!<P>OvrCs: When I say "get a plan" I guess I'm referring to you deciding in your own mind what you want and what you will do to get it....for you, for the relationship....and then sticking to it. Read all of Dr. Harley's stuff and use Plan A or Plan B as your basis as well as not love busting, etc. Other things like taking care of yourself...i.e. anti-depressants, counseling, focussing on God....can all be part of your plan. <P>Deciding how you will respond to your spouse will be part of the plan. As much as you can keep yourself "centered" would be, in my opinion, the key to your "plan." Are you gonna fly off the handle everytime your spouse throws the crap you way? If not, then make that part of your plan. Try to think ahead and anticipate all the crap that ehey will try to pull. Then anticipate your response. <P>This isn't as easy as it sounds, but it sure helps in getting thru each day.....instead of just reacting to everything thru your emotions. When you are in the middle of all this (and even down the road a ways as I am), it's all to easy to just react emotionally to what happens.....it seems that all you are is just one big emotion. <P>So the "plan" would be your own individual commitment to handle things in a more non-emotional way, if possible. As well, part of the plan is to accept things you cannot change or have no control over. It's also being aware that you may not get what you want. My H still doesn't want to be a part of my life or come home. But it doesn't mean you fall apart if that happens. The plan is really about focusing on God and allowing Him to give you the tools (all the things I've mentioned) to take each days situations as they come. <P>I don't know if that helps, but I do know that while I was in Plan A, my H did notice a change in me. And now that I'm in Plan B, I don't go thru that emotional rollercoaster quiet as often....I feel much more centered with God, EVEN THO my H is still out and about with the OW. It's a way of coping that isn't so dependant on the situation or on your emotions. Good luck.<P>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O

Well, here's how it went down. I suggested to W that her friend sleep on the couch and I would sleep in son's room. This was unacceptable to her. The friend did not come over but another one of her girlfriends did. Same problem, but different person. We disagreed on the same subject. After W's ranting and raving, friend slept on couch and I slept in son's room. <P>During the ranting and raving though, I suggested that if her lifestyle was going to be like this, then she should probably move out. She said give her until April 1st. I'm sorry folks, but I cannot sacrifice my morals by having her sleazy friends come into my home. <P>I recently found out she had a party at the house while I was moved out. A couple that stayed over that night had sex on my couch! I am a Christian man, and I cannot have such people hanging around my step son in my home like this. I don't care if it is a LB to my W. <P>Furthermore, I believe she is now involved with another guy from the local bar. This infuriates me because she doesn't have the decency to move out before she has an affair.<P>I am trying so hard. Whenever I am around her, I do everything I can to please her. Even so, I feel I am being used by my W. How can you love someone that doesn't love you? My guess is that she is going to move out eventually but not seek a divorce. This is so she can keep her options open. She knows I love her and would take her back if she asked. This is going way beyond Plan A, as I see plan B coming around the corner.<P>I am angry, I am hurt, and I am still in love with this woman. God is with me through all this. I know I'll be happy one day. It is just the pain is so hard. I could really use a pep talk right now from someone.

Thanks for the update, warewolf. Sorry things are tuff right now. I don't know if this will be a pep talk or not, but I think you did some things right.<P>You were right in sleeping in son's room. I don't really understand why your wife was so mad about the friend sleeping on couch and you sleeping in sons's room? Any insight?<P>I also think you were right to tell her that having un-moraled people over and around your son is wrong and that you won't put up with it. Almost anything you will say at this point sounds like it's gonna be a LB for her....she's just at that stage.<P>I think if/when you talk about her moving out, always humbly remind her that while you can't stop her from doing that, you would rather have her stay and work on the relationship. <P>You're right....she probably will move out and not seek a divorce. You will have two choices: either keeping on Plan A and hope she wants to come back; or Plan B. Have you been able to talk to Dr. Harley? I'm not sure what he'd have to say, but my gut thinks that when/if she moves out, that might be a good time to move to Plan B....and that would include no financial help, etc. She may just have to see and live with the consequences of her actions. Also, I know it will be hard for you if she moves out to keep that hope and love there (Plan A)....you've already expressed how hard it was to love her and show her you love her while you were living away. So maybe Plan B could be of help to you as well.<P>I would try to talk to Dr. Harley is you can. Also, if you could in any way try to get her to a counselor with you before she moves out....Can you just ask her to do just that one thing for you? Or better yet, talk to Dr. Harley by phone once. My H did that once when I asked him to. <P>Keep us posted.<BR>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<BR>

Thanks...I'm trying to schedule a meeting with Dr. Harley ASAP. I am on a business trip right now, so it is hard to get the timimg right. God only knows what may be going on back home. I talked to wife this afternoon (Monday). It was casual conversation that I initiated. She was getting ready to meet her friends out tonight. Big surprise there. I always tell her I love her before I hang up the phone. All I get in return is an OK from her. No surprise there either.<P>I was at home the other day and I broke down crying. She happened to walk in the door at that same moment. She I felt I had lost the best thing in my life - my wife. I told her how much I cared for her. She didn't get emotional, and she only said (once again) "Why couldn't you love me like that 2 years ago?" She really feels like it's over, regardless of how many times I assure her it is not too late.<P>There is definitely an OP in the picture. There is a guy I know at the local bar that she is spending time with. He's pursuing her and she is not resisting. It's like a contest amongst all the guys there to see who can get in my W's pants first. They all want what I had. <P>I tell you, putting my needs aside and trying to attend to hers is wrecking my self-esteem. A person can only go through Plan A for so long before total exhaustion sets in. I'm going to check with Harley, but I am sure Plan B is my only other alternative with an OP in the picture.<BR>Sitting in this hotel room alone, thoughts are racing through my mind of this OP and my W together socializing with my friends. He has taken my place and it is like I never existed. Except that the bills get mysteriously paid.<P>I guess it would be easier if I had more friends of my caliber to spend time around. There aren't many now that most have chosen her over me. Basically, all I have is God, my Mother, my counselor, and you folks. That's it.<P>I have decided not to call my W at all duringthe rest of this trip. I am going to turn off my cell phone and try to get some sleep tonight. If she calls me during this trip, I am not going to answer. Moving back into my home was a good move, but it was somthing I did for me. I had to get control over my home again. However, I am not living with my W. Instead, it feels like I have a roommate. The W I married is dead and some stranger has taken her place. So begins my mourning process.<P>I'll try to post happier news, but tonight finds me in a very somber mood. I hope I am able someday to help other people on this site after I have survived this ordeal.

Something weird happened today. I had decided to not call my W at all during the rest of my business trip. Today, she calls me to let me know she had to work today from 3pm-11pm. Why did she do this? <P>Furthermore, as we ended the conversation, I told her "I love you." She immediately responded "I love you too...OH!"<BR>Her exclamation was one as if she let those words accidentally slip out due to habit.<P>I'm not sure if it was a feeling that she momentarily let resurface. Perhaps she did this on purpose to keep me hanging on so that she still has all her options. <P>Comments??

I agree with Mrs.O's assessment and advice, but I'm a bit worried about some details she may not have taken into account. First, do I remember correctly that your son is really your stepson? This could complicate matters, since you may not have any legal standing to protect him. And second, having your wife leave to face the consequences of her actions may not be as easy as all that. My wife had no trouble using the courts to extort money from me, and the only consequences she has had to face are those stemming from her own conscience.<P>I think the fact that your wife called you for no real reason is an encouraging sign. But I'm inclined to assume that the "I love you" was just an automatic reaction.<BR>

Thank you, GnomeDePlume....and I agree with you too....it wouldn't be all that easy to let her go or may not even be the best thing, but not sure he could stop it. I guess what I was trying to say was that IF she went, that might be a good time for Plan B...no contact, no financial assistance, etc. That doesn't mean she'll struggle and realize what she's doing...she may not. But I really think he should talk to Dr. Harley first....don't take it on my word!<P>Also, I can see your point about his step-son. She may want to and have the right to take him with her. Not sure that would be all that great...or what rights warewolf would have at all as far as that goes....something that he should check into, I think.<P>I tend to agree, warewolf, that the "i love you" may have been accidental...however, she probably still does, whether she wants to admit it or not. But the fact that she called....well, I don't know her, so if you think it's kinda weird given her current behaviour and feelings, then maybe there is a little "hope" hanging around in her heart.<P>I wish for you the best. I'm glad you made it back home at least. Keep us posted.<P>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<BR>

I'm not back home yet. I'm still on the business trip and I'm using my laptop to reach you folks. While I'm not the one giving any advice here, I do hope someone out there is learning from my problems and your advice.<P>If my W leaves, my stepson will likely go with her. I would offer to keep him at my home for his short-term benefits, but she cannot bear to live without him. My own son lives with his Mom, and I see him every other weekend.<P>The "I love you" was said out of habit. I don't believe it was real, not yet anyway.<P>Dr. Harley has recommended the following:<BR>1) W is stepping back and forth between withdrawal and conflict.<BR>2) I should run the Plan A gambit for another 4-6 months, if I can. Hopefully, the connection with the OP will not blossom into a full blown affair if I start now.<BR>3) Avoid all future mention of relationships and marital problems. Let her lead on these issues.<BR>4) If the affair blossoms or no progress is made in the allotted time, then ask W to leave ASAP. Plan B comes into play. Remain in a loving, gentle manner as she leaves so that her last memories of me are positive ones. This will leave the most impression on her during the separation and cause doubts for her. <BR>5) Have no contact with W during Plan B. Continue to focus on bettering myself. If W returns, then go back to Plan A until she reaches intimacy. If W does not return, then file divorce after another 6 months and look on all this as a positive change in my life which will enhance my next relationship. Yes...there is someone out there that will love me as much as I need them too.<P>These are easy words to say, but very hard to accomplish. Most people cannot Plan A for very long before their own emotional needs require some attention to keep despair from taking over.<P>I guess I will try to Plan A with her until the end of June. If there are no changes by then, she is going to be let go. By then, this affair and her true desires will show themselves. By then, I will know if this woman wants me for a husband.<P>To me, it will be her loss. As a brown-eyed, brown haired, built, half-greek, 6'1", 220lb, 90K/yr salaried professional, I will find someone that will love me for who I am. I know because I deserve better treatment than what I am getting from my W, despite all my past sins.

Hi Warewolf,<P>I'm so glad you got to talk to Dr. Harley. It sounds like you have a good plan. And you're right, it isn't as easy as it sounds....it's gonna be hard. Keep coming back here when you need to vent or just talk.<P>Plan A isn't easy....in fact it's hard. But it will give you the knowledge that you have done everything possible to save your marriage. I don't know how good a job I did at Plan A, but I know it has helped me in all the relationships in my life. If followed closely, it really does help you become a better person.<P>Take care and keep us posted.<BR>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<P>

That's it...I'm done. I am officially in withdrawal. I can take no more of W's galavanting around with this OP until 4:00a.m. after turning me (her own husband) down for a dinner date on the same night.<P>I have given all, and I don't have anything left to give. I am exhausted. After she got home from her night on the town, I put my foot down. I told her this lifestyle was unacceptable and that I wanted her to move out of my house, out of my life, and to just go away.<P>After 2 hours of arguing she finally agreed before passing out on the couch. This woman has bottomed out, and she is trying to pull me down with her. I cannot allow myself to fall apart like that or else my son will suffer. He is going through a lot right now, and he needs me.<P>Disagree with my decision all you want but it is done and so are my posts on this site. I am so pissed off right now. You were all helpful, but it's gotten to a point where I feel I am being used by my STBXW. I even discovered that she has her own P.O. box. What in the world could that be for???? <P>I cannot love someone that refuses to love me. The woman I married is dead and gone. I do not know who this person is. Let that other guy support her from now on. She is way too high maintainence for me. The alcohol, the trashy friends, the cigarettes, the filthy house, the embarrassment of my wife in public with another man, the constant rejection....it is too much for me. I have to focus on my needs in order to survive...to hell with her needs. Let someone else be her dog....I am cutting the leash.<P>

Hi Warewolf,<P>I just was curious with what is happdening in your situation. I know you left it that you were cutting the leash....did you? So now what has happened? <P>Please come back and keep us posted. <P>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O

I am still in the process of cutting the leash. I am in the house, but so is she. I've asked her to move out, but she refuses to go. She is going out bar hopping until 2 a.m. and can then come home to a nice bed and not have not pay any rent. Can you blame her? Even so, she is driving me nuts with her blatant rejection of me and inability to cope with her own responsibilities.<P>She makes lawyer appointments, but then cancels them. She asks for a divorce, but then says it may be a bad idea. She wants to have sex, but she won't say she loves me. She is not being wish-washy, she's using me as a safety net for her own selfish reasons. I am paying the house note and utilities myself. I do not pay her car note or credit card bills, and she is neglecting those as well. By the way, she is working on a regular basis now, so she has the money. She tells all her friends she is just saving up enough money to move out. She tells everyone I am psycho, so my reputation is shot.<P>I am in the process of looking for a lawyer to deter,mine my options. If she won't move out, then I'll have to take some kind of action. I continue to be nice to her with back rubs, bringing her coffee in the morning, washing her vehicle, taking her son to school, telling her I love her,washing some of her clothes, buying groceries, etc...<P>Hence, I am still in Plan A mode. This is mostly for improving myself, and it also feels like the Christian thing to do. However, I am so ready for Plan B if she continues to behave this way, and with a possible OP in the picture. Besides, if her final memories of me are all good, she'll always doubt if she made the right decision in leaving this marriage.

Thanks for letting us know. You are probably right about her using you for a safety net. <P>I think talking to a lawyer is a good idea as well as keeping in Plan A (don't sleep with her...you don't know where she's been). <P>Sorry for what is happening...I know exactly how it feels to be living so very closely with someone who is acting like that.....and it's pure h*ll. While I didn't want him to, it was actually a relief in some ways when my H did move out. But then I was left WONDERING all the time what he was doing....couldn't win either way!<P>Maybe an ultimatum is in order soon.....either work on the marriage (including not nighttime bar hopping) or move out. Talk to your lawyer and maybe even Steve Harley again.<P>Wow, that's a tuff spot..<P>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<BR>

Well, I filed a divorce petiton yesterday. She'll get served with the papers soon enough. I'm under Louisiana law which requires a 6 month separation untuil divorce can be granted. This separation requires no living under the same roof. <P>Since we are both still in the house, the divorce petiton will be stillborn until one of us moves out. Then, the clock starts ticking.<P>I did this even though I want to save my marriage. She has backed me into a corner, while she has it made in the shade. This tells her I am serious: Either seek help to save yourself and this marriage or get out of the house. I am going to waut a couple of months until her son is out of school for the summer. He will then go visit his Dad for awhile. During that time, I am going to ask her to seek another residence while I stay and maintain the house.<P>I had to do this because her lifestyle was starting to drag me back down into the pit of depression. I kept in Plan A mode for as long as I could until I became too drained from it all. If divorce comes, then let it come. I will be happy no matter what happend. If this brings her back into reality, then that's great. I want my marriage to work, but it can only happen if the both of us want it.

Hi Warewolf,<P>Yes, you can't do it alone. I think the plan of asking her to start looking for another place to live SOON so that she can move out while her son is away is good. Give her that deadline.<P>So sorry it's come to this, but many of us here can relate. Is the house in both of your names or just yours? If it's just yours, you may have to resort to changing the locks and/or getting a restraining order once the deadline comes, if she doesn't move by then. <P>When you file for divorce and 6 months of separation are needed, how is that enforced? Does the judge or lawyer tell one of the partners to move out? Just wondering.<P>Take care and, yes, I am finally starting to think that maybe someday I will be okay too.<P>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<BR>