I'm a 40 year old divorced man who is trying to make a life for himself with a 33 year old separated woman. Between the two of us we have 5 children. My oldest is in grade 10 and her youngest is in kindergarden. We are trying to make a life for ourselfs under tremendous odds. We love each other and wish to get married next year as soon as she gets a divorce herself. We have known each other for four years and during the time I met her, the marriage was over and we were just freinds uptill last year when she decided that we had a future together. Since then we have fought him; he thinks we were invold before the breakup but we weren't; and her mother who is a born agian christan who thinks him and her should stay together or sin and go to hell. He was vey controlling and mentally abusive and just plain used her. The mother is interfering in her affairs by giving her three hour lectures on the sins of divorice and adultry. Its a very complicated mess here. But we a determan to make this relationship work and make a good life for ourselfs. I have read your advice about living together before marriage but how does it work for second timers. We plan to get married as soon as the ink on the divorce papers dry but we need to get control of things before then. We find that we are stronger together then when we are separt. We feel that a place of our own will give us the advantage we need to get moving on our life and get control of our problems. We may have disagreements but the majority are infulanced by other people butting in. We both agree that this is our last chance at a good life we can't afford to waste time cause we both are starting from scratch and need get working on things. She is a good woman and I have always trusted her and she never betryed that trust. My question I put to you is how do we deal with interfering people expecially relatives and Exs? Would it be wrong when we move in together to put rules in place that "guests" know that if they interfer they'll be asked to leave? The hardest part is I like her mother. she is a nice lady but when she comes around I have to go in hiding so my girlfreind won't get lectures and its starting to piss me off. Would it be wrong to say to the girlfriend that if we plan on going out and her mother is there that I don't care I will be picking her up at her house cause I'm tried of meeting somewheres else?

I understand your concern about interfering people, but my question is does her separation agreement allow her to live with another man? Afterall, the estranged H may take issue with that given his kids live with her.

When you say you weren't involved before the breakup, do you mean you were not having a physical relationship and therefore think you were not having an affair? You could well have been in an emotional affair with her, which might have led to her deciding to quit her marriage. It's so common for people having affairs (whether physical or emotional) to say that their decision to seperate/divorce had nothing to do with the affair, whereas actually that IS the main reason they leave. <p>Evensong

Hey its nice to known someone is listening. Now to answer your questions. To dkg3100 and even song at the moment there is no separtion agreement cause he is planning the control game with her. He won't sign anything because he keep changing his mind. First he wants half of her furniture then he doesn't then he does. He uses his own child as a means of getting what he wants by telling her that he'll file for custody if she doesn't do this or that. Or the other threat is adultry are another leaverage on her. when we first met she had only moved here a year prior and had really no freinds or family here. I became someone who would sit and listen to her problem and from time to time lent her money to get bread and milk for her kids. All he did was sit on his [censored] and do nothing. when a bill had to be paid his answer was alway "its your problem not mine" or he would demand money from her she did not have, one time he call her at work saying to her employer that the baby was sick and needed to talk to her but all he wanted was 50 bucks and a case of beer. We found out later that the reason he would not work cause he owed traffic fines to the government. The government came to her one day and told her seeing that you are married to him and working you pay the fines or face garnishments. He turned around and told her if she paid the fines he'll end the marriage. She came to me and asked my advice and I told her how bad could it be, it should be that much so pay it. Like you really haven't got much of a choice here. It turned out to be $10,000 in fines dating back long before they were married. At this point she had enough of him and his crazy family and wanted out so she paid it. When I found out how much it was I told her not to, leave and get out and let the courts decide whether she should pay it or not. But she did pay it and he left when it was paid off. Now he has a good job and can pay child support but he won't telling her to go to hell.
There are alot of other abuses I know of that would take too long to tell you, but I can tell you this it was not our freindship that ened the marriage but him and as why she decided we had a future is the fact I treat her like a human being and not like property or a domestic slave. Yes she wanted to end because of emotions but one of betrayal and anger and rightly so. As for us all we want is some peace in our lives and a good life together and are trying hard to make it so.

Good news,
She called me to day and told me she and her mother got into it about me. Her mother started to bad mouth me and the GF basically told her she is 33 and this was her house and to butt out. So now they are not on speaking terms. As for her real father ; lier,con artist and user: he tried to move in forceablly and causing plain trouble so she showed him the door and said not to come back. I told her it was strange that all of a sudden after 33 years he decided to see her and now we know why. Like she said she as no bond with the man and he is her father only in name. Like I said before she hasn't let me down about being in control and unlike my EX she stood up for me.

I feel I must apologize by my poor choice of words the last time I wrote. I didn't mean that I was happy her and her mother was add odds right now I was stating that she showed that she was in control like she said. I really like here mother and I feel sad that we have a broken fence between us. She really loves her mama, she is the only parent she has known all her life and I don't like them fighting but the mother went too far and this is the result. Yesterday I got a phone call, well a couple when I was out in the delivery truck, she really needed to talk to me. She driving my car right now and she found a big pool of oil under it. She started the car up to warm it up and went into the house, when she came out there was smoke and the oil. Well she called me right away and when I got there it turned out to be a leaking tranny line spraying on the hot rad. So while I was fixing it we talk and I found out why earlier in the day she was so hipe. Again she did not let me down she did all the right things and even rolled up her sleaves and helped. She told me she could always can count on me to fix things or get it fixed. I told her I can fix alot of things just time and money don't always seem to meet. We have a van that needs things fixed to pass the sniff test and Its taking time to do it and she been fustrated by it and the lack of money plus everything else on top of it. Her Ex has been across the road lately alot visiting a freind he says but she feels that he is spying on her and he keeps taking her car which is not a winter car cause his is in the shop. I asked why and she says she just trying to be the nice guy in the hopes he will give her the separtation without any more hassles. My slant on this is that she only screwing her self in the end cause he will use that against her.
I really love this girl but she is sometimes her own worst enemy when it comes to him.

I guess you already know she is carrying tremendous baggage. Your chances for a good marriage with her would be better if you gave things a bit more time (versus marrying as soon as the ink is dry). I know that is not what you want to hear, but this sounds wayyy too much like my brother and his second wife. I truly think if they'd allowed time to heal after her divorce, and for her to resolve some of her baggage, they might have made it, instead of having all that baggage follow them into the new relationship. <p>Regardless of timing, regardless of married or dating, you two can use MB principles to resolve how to handle issues like her mom's interference. Have you read the POJA info under Basic Concepts?

Dear kam6318;
Thanks for the advice, most of what the POJA I being doing now, and yes I do know about the bagage she is carrying right now, I've known for a couple of years now. Like I said there more here then I've told you. Somedays I being to doubt that we will make it in the end but she is a strong person and sometime even she succumes to the pressure and releases her fustration verbally.
What I need to do is get this thing on track so we can make something of ourselves. We agree we must get moving but we disagree on how. I want to save up the money to get our first place first so we have it when we start looking between April and June then pay for the debts but she wants the reverse. We still talking about it but I feel there is some common ground here somewhere. She also likes to play the "wait and see" with things and I stuck between a rock and a hard place. I've been asked to be out of the family farm by April so big brother and his wife and kid can stay here. I've told her about this and said that I don't have much of a choice here that we have to do everything within six months. With her dragging her feet on a job( she has applied for some but is too worried about court) I don't think it will be possible without putting some kind of a fire under her rear to get her going. I don't want to anger her or hurt her but what choices do I have. I've been separtated and divorced for three years now and I'm still at the starting point having accomplished nothing. I wish to move on with my life but I'll be damned to move on without her. I know in my heart my life will be richer and fuller with her there [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ December 30, 2001: Message edited by: 231 ]</p>

<p>[ December 31, 2001: Message edited by: 231 ]</p>

Happy New Years;
First off I must apologize for my last posting, I did not like what I wrote and personally disagreed with myself. Was down last night cause I chatted with the GF. Her, her sister and her girlfeind went out last night to blow off some steam. I was depressed because I wanted to do someting last night with her and instand I stayed home and went to bed at nine. She accused me ot smothering her and she is getting up set with me. She says I go on and on about things and I can't seem to let things alone and let her do want she knows needs to be done. She is partly right I have gotten into a bad habit of worrying about things. So much so that I've become opsessed with it 24 hrs a day, 7 days aweek. I trust her and I know she is looking for work and trying to get things in her personal life straighten out. But where I've gotten obsessed with her she been doing the exact opposite with me cause she fears what her EX is going to do. My other problem is I've been neglecting myself, I've been putting my own personal needs on the back burner too long and now I find that part of my problem is this imbalance between my needs and her's. She told me her plate is full right now but she says that our current problems can be solved just put trust in her and us and it will get done, RELAX PLEASE!!.
My question is how do I address these problems and explain it to her without overloading her plate and getting more fustrated?
Another question how do I get back to being me and unload this fear and obsession about her situation that I can't do nothing about?
Another thing about her that I have not told you about is that in a previous relationship before she got married on the rebound her commonlaw spoused got into drugs and she caught him one night and confronted him about it. The result was a brutal beating, a broken arm and her mother standing over her in the hospital asking what did she do to deserve this. As a result of that and the abuses I previously meantion earlier she has this thing about being touched. Sometimes she lets me in and othertimes she gets right up set with me when I try to give her some TLC. All this is a very large mountain I have to over come. I know there is a warm loving woman inside of her, I've seen it and its a wonderful thing to see.
Its a new year and I'm going to wait a bit this morning to see if she calls me and ask her out for coffee. I'm hoping that I can convince her to start fresh and see if she and I can comeup with some approch to solving the problems between ourselfs. I have to convince here of the imbalance I have created and what I need from her to help me solve them without getting her upset. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]
Love can concquer all, Its how to do it properly to win in the end?

Update;
I phoned her about 10 o'clock and asked her if she was interested in a coffee but was turned down flat. I asked if she wish to take in a movie and was turned down flat agian. "I'm going back to bed" she said and that she doesn't want to do anything today. I didn't press the issue but I still feel rejected to the point of say to hell with it all. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

I am sorry you are feeling frustrated right now. To be honest, your posts do come across as being a little to desperate/rushing things.<p>The best advice my folks ever gave me was to know that marriage does not fix or complete anyone...a good marraige is the joining of two people who are already complete & happy on their own, but find that they still add to each other's lives. My advice to you would be to slow down, spend some time becoming more "complete and happy" on your own, and let her do the same. Let your reltionship grow some on its own time--not a rush schedule, and I think it will be stronger in the long run.<p>Kathi

Hi, I have read all of your recent postings and can see your confusion, desperation, and obsession with your girlfriend's situation (and of course how that relates to you).
What do you want from her?
She sounds like she's in the midst of much emotional turmoil and if you really loved her you'd let her work things out on her own terms and in her own way. You don't say how long you've been divorced or where your ex and children live. Is it possible for you to channel all of this emotional energy into your children? No matter where they are... if they are minors they could certainly use some devotion and attention from Daddy. It just seems like you believe you have a lot to offer another human being in the way of attention, affection, love, etc... and I am sorry you feel that your love is not being accepted and/or returned right now. That is a sad feeling. As a general rule, sad feelings, while they cannot be erased, can somehow be replaced when we step outside of our own selfish wants and unconditionally give to others. It could be your children... it could be your parents... it could be an 'ol pal who needs someone to just sit and watch a football game. One thing is certain... sitting around and doing nothing but thinking of "her" and "her problems" and "her Mom" and "her plate" and "her husband" (yes she is still married if I read you right) is counterproductive. And you know what? I suspect her husband is doing the same thing about her right now too. And you think he's nuts and is trying to control and manipulate her and he probably thinks the same thing about you. (I can just hear her telling him that you called her this morning just for coffee and she told you "no", etc...). Yes her plate sounds very full right now. The gentlemanly thing would be to step aside gracefully, let nature run its course and in the meantime take some of that desire and love you have and spread it around the universe. Good luck to you. HAPPY New Year.

To the people who wrote;
Thanks a bunch. Your are all right including her. We talked last night for an hour and I agreed to leave her alone for awhile. She likes talking to me and I the same but she says I call too much and right now with too many ears around it would not be wise. As for her husband she tells him nothing, as for him he always cared more for himself than his wife. When and if he made money he always kepted it for himself. Before when she and I where just freinds he use to tell me things or do things that showed how callious and unconcerned he was.When he had money and the kids needed meds he would say he had money but this was her problem not his. Anyways my two girls lives with the EX but I have joint coustity of them. Both are in their early teens and like most teenagers they like spending time with their friends. I basically have to book an appointment to see them but when I do spent time its for the whole day. Alot of the times the GF asks if the girls and I would like to come to the soccer with her to watch her kids play. The girls always jump at the offer and we all end up spending the day together.Oh Vibeke wanted to know how long I've been divorced:Three years.As for the bit about the coffee it is normally a thing we use to do all the time it just we have gotten away from that lately. Hell we used to meet every morning at the local timmys before going to work just to say good morning and have a good say at work. One morning I would buy the other she would.
The one question that vibeke asked is the same she asked me;What do I want from her? One thing and many things I just don't know. That I will try to figure out while I am having a time out here.And Vibeke I really do love her.
She says I have to get back to being me, find a hobby. I do have a hobby but where I live currently does not allow me to do it. Just FYI I build static aircraft in 1/72 scale and have built some award winning peices, and I do miss it so. I haven't touched a peice of plastic in over three years. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: 231 ]</p>

Hi guys;
Just a update. I went out today with a lest one of my daughters. The oldest(15) was too tired to get out of bed( had girlfreind over night). I spent several hours shopping with her, had lunch, and then I took her home. Saw my GF drive by and she waved. You know I feel so stupid how I've been acting. You may not agree with this but my ladylove has been the best thing that ever came into my life. SHE IS my better half and I'm dam lucky to have her. I hope that I can give her the space she needs to accomplish the task set before her. I just hope that I can stick to my promise not to smother her. If I lose her I feel that I'll lose myself in the process. Keep in touch and keep those suggestions and encouragments coming. I feel that God sent me here to help me save my relationship with sweetpea(pet name)
231

Hi.
I certainly hope that you gave yourself a pat on the back for getting out and taking your daughter to the mall. You know when I was a teenaged girl I would not want to spend "whole days" with my Dad either. Girls need to sleep late (smile) and just hang out in their rooms with their girlfriends doing absolutely nothing. Perhaps dropping by on a Saturday at noon with their favorite pizza and a note saying "something for when my princess awakens" and short trips like today with one of your daughters would be a positive way of channeling some of that angst you are feeling right now. I'll bet your friend was surprised to see you out and about today and doing something positive. No one likes a depressed person that is stuck in a gear. And when you have another person believe that they are the reason why you are depressed or stuck in a gear well then then they just feel too much pressure from you and will probably run away out of self-survival.
I do believe you love her but when you say you would evaporate or disappear or be nothing without her... well then... that is exactly the moment I actually start to doubt the seriousness and maturity and reality of your love for her. Give me a break. You are a forty something year old man for goodness sake. How on earth could some thirty something woman in a bad marriage with a family breathing down her neck constantly possibly be your tower of strength? You see? You are just like everyone else in her life. You all have needs and wants and expectations and judgments as to how she "should" be if she "really loved you too". What did you do for forty something years before you met her? Were you a beggar on the street? Stand up. Snap out of it. There's nothing wrong with loving her (well actually there is because she's married but I'm not here to judge you on that I just want to support you where you are at this moment) but there is something wrong with loving her as much as or more than you love yourself.
I could really sense the joy in your soul for the one second that you mentioned your hobby/passion. I am sorry that it is impossible for you to indulge in that right now - what would have to change for you to be able to do that again?
Don't get me wrong. I hope that you and your sweetpea wind up together ... if it's God's will as you say. But if you really believe in a higher power - then know that you do no honor to Him or yourself if you sit around trying to control this love situation to your liking. The only person's feelings you can control are your own.
Have a good evening.
And do try to keep your mind and hands busy in a positive direction to help control your anxiety and your desire to dial her number daily.
May you gain some peace of mind knowing that others wish you well.

Vibeke;
Nothing like a verbal kick the pants to start the day. Well your right I should act more mature but her and me have gone through alot in our lives both separt and apart. Your right I won't evaporate if she goes but what I mean was that her strengths make up what I am lacking for example I weak when it comes to finances not saying that I can't pay bills but in terms of how to use my money smartly thats why we agree that she be the bill payer when the time comes and as for me I'm stronger in the areas of vehical mainance and general handyman things so thats my area. As for whats been going on well it takes a person of strong constiution not to give up admist a raging storm. But I've come to realize that I need to tone it down so she can concentrate at the job at hand.
I'll give some background on my first marrige. The family never really like me because I was a farmer's son, not a doctor or lawyer,not a RC or willing to jump when they sayso. I dated her for three years and had a serious relationship.We moved in together in the fourth and alittle while longer she was pregent with my oldest girl. The reaction from her one sister was a left hook. We where married a year after she was born then two years later we had our second. Times where tough, I was laid off and when the unempolyment ran out we had to go on social assistance. I applied for work, worked for temporay agences and so on. One day my concellor ask me if there was something wrong with the wife. I told her that the W had a mental disablity due to an auto accident and had short term memory lost. They got her a disablility pension to help with our finances(it paid more) but my life went down hill from there. My wife was a puppet to her parents. We would sit down to discuss things and when we "BOTH" agreed then we both where happy. Then she would talk to her mother and her mother would tell her to change her mind and she would.Then work dried up, I would apply, go to the agencies to tell them I was available but nothing. Then one day I happen to been home when the phone rang and it was a job. The person said they where trying to get a hold of me and was leaving messages with the wife. Upon investiagation I found out people where calling me, but she would not tell me. It seems her parents told her not to so she can retain control over the money.(what ever I earned was deduction from hers). During this time I was accused of being lazy and a bad husband. They stopped inviting me to all the holiday and family get togethers for seven years. My oldest when she was old enough to understand told me the favorite topic was to run me down and the wife would sit there and not stand up for me in my absence,My daughter did. Her one sister and husband was the only ones on my side and the husband was telling me also what was going on.The marrige evenually turned into two people living together but separt. By this time I figured the marrige was over, I tryed to get her to councelling but the other sisters and her parents would tell her not to. The final nail came in November of 97 when her one sister was getting married. The invitation had her name and my daughter's names but not mine. She asked a mutual freind of ours what she should do and the freind told her not to go if she couldn't bring me, but she went anyways and the lack of loyality killed the marriage right there and then. It was about this time I met my GF but at the time she was a new girl on the line where I was working. I was giving her rides back and forth to work and nothing else. I had no interest in her other than reminding myself I had a passenger to pickup every morning.We wheren't even freinds just co-workers.Anyways when I told the wife I was picking a woman co-worker on the way to work all hell broke loose. I got interagated for hours at a stretch. There was even times she would start in at me at three in the mornings sometimes waking up to belt in the head.I found out much later that her sisters where working over time on her telling her we where having a affair, even to the point that the woman was pregent with my baby. One day the W came in told me she had a place of her own and was moving out in april(98). It save me from telling her we where through (she beat me to the punch) It was timed good cause I was laid off again so even if I left I had no money to take my girls with me. When she left she strip the townhouse clean except the old couch and one place setting(no food) The future GF heard what happened and brought me some food cause I was kind to her in the past.Two years later my separted freind ( 5 months); who I would give rides to the grocery store when I went; decided to get me a chance. I wasn't looking for it nor was I interested in another relationship but I liked her and so I decided what the hell we only live once. The rest you know. When I say she better then what I had I'm not whisling dixie here. But your right I put her too much on a petal stool but unlike the EX who I really couldn't trust I trust the GF. And if you think I haven't doubted her your wrong cause I have but was proven wrong everytime.
Trust me when I say that we both agree this relationship was meant to be and we both feel that this is the last time for both of us. We love each other its just unexpected events have happen to make things alittle more difficult for us. Like the song says "You'll have to go through alittle hell before you get to heaven" But I believe we both can make things work out and be happy in the end I just have to give her the time and space she needs. By the way she left me a note in the van this morning at work just to say she loves me.

Update;
Some good news and bad news. First the good,GF has a job interveiw with a major company tommorrow. If she gets it, it will pay 14 an hour to start. Man we need her to get that job, it will go along way to solving some of our current financial problem. Now the bad. I told you I went to get my girls yesterday well there was repercussions. I rang up to get them and the EX let me up to wait for my youngest. She tried to smooze up to me like she done may times before and I told her flat out NO like I have done may times before. Well my oldest phoned tonight all upset asking me "What the f*** I did yesterday when I came up to upset her mother?" I asked her whats going on she told me the EX had the cops over and told them I just busted in and made sexual advances towards her. Holy cow, I said you know I rang up and I can't get in unless she lets me in. Besides I very seldom go up for the previous reason meantioned. She just sore I spured her advancements. She does not know about the GF cause if she did she will try to find out where she lives and go over there to cause trouble. My loyality belongs to GF now and I would not jump in bed with the EX beside I would conceder that cheating on her and plus I feel no affection to the EX, Its been three years.
The oldest called me back later and told me she talked her mother out of it cause she and her sister would tell the cops the truth and she would be in alot of trouble for filing a false report. Well wish my GF luck tommorow, Getting the job would be a real moral booster for her.<p>[ January 03, 2002: Message edited by: 231 ]</p>

Hi;
Today is the day for her job interveiw and she asked me to go there with her for moral support. Of course I'll be waiting in the car but I hope my present might give her that little extra she might need to do well.What ever her reasons I glad she wants me there.

It was a great day;
We spent a total of two hours together today. While we drove to the interview we talked. It started out as small talk,you know "nice day" and "Interesting weather we are having". Eventually she opened up and we patched things up. Like I said her and her mother got into it about me and its partly my fault for not doing what she asked and was calling her. People where asking too many question she could not answer. She has really crawled to a privatcy hole right now. She kept talking about the lack or privatcy in her life. Something simple like asking to see her resume was too much as an invasion to her. But the situation right now makes her more sensitive then normal. Well anyways she still loves me and is OK now with things between us just keep it tone down until things get straighten out while her sister is there. She just wants our business to remain our business and her sister tends to talk to mama too much.
I beleive I am getting better and if I just stick to it things will get back to normal between us.
231