I am presently in a very painful relationship with a woman who I have been "seeing" for about 10 months, and have lived with for about 6.

After reading through the marriagebuilders site, I realize that I made a mistake by moving in with her, but there were some unusual circumstances involved.

She got fired from her job the day we started dating, last August. She owned her own home, and I rented an apartment. She desparately tried to get work for many months, but after about 5 months she was fearful that she would have to move and sell her home - this was something she did not want to do at all costs.

Enter Mr. Caretaker. I offered to move in so that we could use my salary to help pay her bills, until she could get back on her feet. All this time, we had a good relationship, or so I thought. What I did not realize is that I was doing all the work in the relationship, and was ignoring my needs.

While she was out of work, we went places and did things together. She made an effort to meet my needs for physical affection and recreational companionship, etc. We did not argue or have disagreements.

Now, up front, I knew that she owned horses and enjoyed riding them. While were dating, and while she was out of work, she did not follow her hobby much. We would go out to the barn where she kept her horses (2) every evening to feed them, and sometimes she would ride them, but it was not obsessive or excessive.

Now she has found a job, and can affort her hobby (competing in horse shows, etc.). She spends every evening at the barn, which is about 15 miles from where we live. On weekends, she is either in horse shows or wants to spend the days (hours at a time) at the barn. All she wants to do is talk about horses or her job when we are out together around her friends. We never do what I would like to do, and do not share any recreational activities together.

J is not interested in what Dr. Harley has to say, and has informed me that she "will not" ask permission to do anything that she wants to do. She does not seem to have any needs, aside from being around her horses - no needs for affection or conversation (with me, that is). She discusses every aspect of her life with her "horse friends" and excludes me. I have very little of her time at home, and it is usually after she has worked a long day, come home only to jet off to the barn to ride, and then comes home late. We might have 1 hour to be "alone" after that, but it is never quality time.

I cannot make her understand that I have needs, and that we need to be able to do things together. I cannot make her understand the Policy of Joint Agreement - and while we are not married, we have discussed the possibility. My greatest fear is that she will never understand how much she is hurting me, and that her selfish behavior is killing our relationship. I love her, but I don't know how to get through to her.

She told me yesterday that if she had to choose between her horses and me "you know what I would pick" - horses. So, what do I do? I can't just leave, because I love her. I only wish I could make her see what is "right".

Please help.

K

It sounds like you have a roomate, not a significant other. She was nice to you when she needed the rent money, but now she doesn't have time for you. I know you're "in love", but why bother staying in a relationship that doesn't appear to make either of you happy? She's made it very clear that you aren't a high priority in her life and doesn't wish to include you in it. I don't think you have enough of a foundation for a relationship to be worth fighting for. I'm sorry if this sounded harsh, and I could be misreading it. But from what you posted it sounds like you should move on before you let yourself get hurt any more.

It took me years to realize that being "in love" was only a feeling and quite likely to steer me wrong. Having a mutually respectful and affectionate relationship is what it's really all about.

Again, my apologies if I was too harsh or misread the situation. Best of luck to you whatever you decide.

Dobie, thanks for the reply.

Yes, I guess I know that you are right, but it is never easy to admit these things. I was so hopeful for so long that she would finally "see the light" and treat me as I deserve.

Problem is, this is a long string of relationships with selfish women. I was married for 2.5 years to another one. I just feel like I need to get it right. I am so tired of being second best. It is difficult to admit defeat.

It feels like I will be going through my second divorce... moving out and being alone again.

I have read many posts on this site, and read many of Dr. Harley's articles and I have two of his books - "Give and Take" and "His Needs / Her Needs" - and I wonder - is there ever two people in a relationship willing to work hard and make an equal effort to meet each other's needs? I read so much suffering here - why are there so many people who just don't seem to get it?

Just some thoughts.

Again, thank you for your post.

K

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I wonder - is there ever two people in a relationship willing to work hard and make an equal effort to meet each other's needs? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes and no. There are relationships where both people are willing to work hard. As for it being equal, that's where the ENs questionnaire comes in handy. Often, we try to meet our own ENs instead of those that the other person wants. It's natural to try the "golden rule" approach and give our spouse what we think is important. And it's normal to have cycles where one person is trying harder than the other, but that should be something that balances out between the two eventually.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Problem is, this is a long string of relationships with selfish women. I was married for 2.5 years to another one. I just feel like I need to get it right. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We all have our "types" that we seem to go back to whether it works for us or not. The trick is to recognize why we keep being attracted to the type of person who really doesn't hold the same values we do. You've probably heard the old saying, "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten." A good IC may be able to help you recognize why you do this. If you're interested in a less selfish type of woman, perhaps you should join some community volunteer projects to at least increase your odds of finding someone who has the inclination to give selflessly. Just be very certain they aren't married. (I spend WAY too much time here.)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She told me yesterday that if she had to choose between her horses and me "you know what I would pick" - horses. So, what do I do? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well aren't you grateful you are not married to her.

I think she is selfcentered and she used you. I know it hurts but I think you need to cut your ties with her and leave. find a place of your own don't tell her yet..but get one when she is gone for a weekend...take all the things you bought for the home for your new place..don't even tell
her what your planning on doing, just do it.it will make you feel better to be on your own.

get your head on straight..and don't move in with anyone else. Don't spend enourmous amounts of money on women..you can find things to do other then hotels, trips etc..save that stuff for your wife..just keep things simple grin..I use to like simple.

find someone by using the questionares from the marriage builders site. see if you have things in common..

I hope things go well for you..but I do think the simpelest thing for you to do is leaving while she is gone..really. she has no need to know where you are..also take the bills out of your name..tell them the light co..gas..phones..that you are moving and want to shut them off..
leave her in the dark..you are not responsible for her..

she said she didn't want to ask permission..well you don't need to tell her anything..just go..

let her put up with her consequenses you do not owe her anything..you didn't even say you were engaged..I think you may have assumed to much and she really just needed you to make house payments for her..please keep your dignity..and move on..
don't look back.

I would like to be there when she comes home to a half empty house..but do it..gooooo..soon..

my grandaughter does horses she is 13 and she lives for them, it can become an addiction also.
her aunt trained her..to ride and she had won lots of trophies and she displays them and my grandaughter has also won lots now too..

she started training her while she was still in diapers..lol..but I think you cannot compete with a horse..really you cannot and they take lots of money to keep up..take care and God bless you..
be proud..move on..don't you think you need to get out>?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Dobie,

I guess my relationships have been so one-sided that I can't really even imagine having one where BOTH people tried.

I have read over the emotional needs questionaire, and I really believe that J would not have any needs listed there. None. It simply would not apply to her. She really does not need anything from me, and that has been one of the problems in our relationship. All the "usual" female needs I can and do try to provide... conversation, affection, etc... but she is not interested. She would push away and smirk if I tried to show her the EN questionaire.

I just get so discouaged because I look around me and all I see are unhappy couples.. it is such the norm. I think of the possibility of finding someone who 1) I am attracted to, 2) is single, 3) is about the same age, 4) wants to have the same kind of relationship that I do... and I just think that it is such an impossible dream.

I have always tried to apply the "golden rule" to my relationships, but end up being the only one who gives. The women I get involved with seem oblivious that I even have needs, and it is far too much trouble for them to meet them.

I think you might be onto something... a volunteer group might just be a good starting place to find a unselfish woman. I do think that I have fallen into the pattern of selecting women who cannot meet my needs.. but the funny thing is, at first they seem to try and care, but then after awhile, they forget that a relationship is a two way street.

I don't want to sound like I am bragging, but I cook, clean up around the house, fix the car and do handyman repairs, I am a very patient and caring lover (but we never have sex anymore - she is not interested, no sex drive), and I really try to listen and meet a woman's needs. Thing is, J does not have any (and has made that clear... she just doesn't need anything from me) so I don't really even know what on earth she wants me around for.

I know I need to get out, but it is SO difficult, especially after going through the divorce a few years ago. I guess it would be easier if she was cheating on me, at least I would have a very solid excuse for running for the hills.

K

SadEyes,

Thank you for your reply.

I have thought about moving out while she was gone sometime. She has been away for weeks at a time over the past few months for her job training. She has two more weeks to go, but another problem... she has a dog and cat that must be taken care of, and I would not feel right just up and leaving them. The dog is about 13 and does not have use of its back legs, so I have to carry it outside to do its business, etc. Always another complication in my life, it seems.

I hate conflict, and we never learned how to communicate - coupled with the fact that she just does not care about my feelings... it is quite a hopeless feeling.

Thank you for your kind words and support. They mean more than you know. I don't know what happens to women when they "grow up" around horses. They seem to forget that people are more important than animals. I think that the only way a woman who is obsessed with horses has a chance for a romantic relationship is if she finds a man who is a "horse nut" too. It is so frustrating and demeaning to be told that you are not the most important person to the one you love. I guess it is a sickness that I still love her, even though she has treated me this way. I just always felt that she would come to her senses someday soon.

I did see the writing on the wall, I guess, and chose to ignore it. She was married for quite a few years to a man who she told me she did not love, and furthermore, they lived seperate lives almost from the day they were married. There was no affection or physical contact for the duration of the marriage. I guess if she could go that long in a "relationship" with no concern whatsoever for repairing the problem or getting help, then I should have run away as soon as I was told this. However, it was several months after I had already fell in love with her that she told me about her previous marriage. Too late then.

I only wish women would be up front about their pasts and also about any unusual things about them that could ruin the relationship later on. If I knew that J would spend every moment of her free time with her horses, I would have never have continued the relationship. And she knew how she is, and just chose to leave that important information out. So, I fell in love with an idea of what could be, not a real person.

Any obsession is not healthy, whether it is working too much, or as in this case, an obsessive hobby. Of course, J does not view it as a hobby... it is a "way of life." I say B.S, it is still a hobby which she chooses to make morre important than me, and her horses are simply pets. That is the bottom line.

I know it is not right, but I feel like I hope that something happens that prevents her from ever riding a horse again, and after she loses me and I have moved on and hopefully found a woman who really cares about me, that she looks back and realizes what she lost. That is sick, I know, but I am so angry and hurt right now.

Take care,

K

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> but I cook, clean up around the house, fix the car and do handyman repairs, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">so gee I wonder how often do you do these things?
what does or did she do while out of work?

do you try to wow her with dinners etc when she comes home? If you do STOP now. I know that goes against the mb..but the thing is you need to stop catering to her, stop treating her like your wife..she isn't, and I think you are spoiling her and she is a brat..

how old are both of you?

what interests do you have other then her? that occupys your time? or do you do everything for her?

You do know she is not caring what you do for her, I am wondering if she is being sarcastic to you or trys to ignore you.

I do feel bad for you that you are in that situation but you are not stuck there..

as far as the animals go..when you get ready to leave, make arangements for them at a vetenairy place or at a kennel thats what she would do if you were not there wouldn't it?
or would she hire someone? but the thing is you need to leave them with someone who is totally responsible because she is going to care more about her animales being gone then you being gone..
I am sorry but that is the type of person she is.
she seems to not have feelings for you, I know it hurts you, you do need to get out and then find someone take your time and date...don't live with anyone..thats not the way to get a wife..
change your pattern a little bit try to hold back on alot of the affection hands on stuff..don't do that right away..holding hands yeah..but not bedding her down..she won't feel pressured then
she won't have to worry about you and will be able to relax..especially if she also was in a relationship that she was pressured before talk about that stuff next time after you go out for a couple weeks and get to know someone new..show them marriage builders stuff..and tell her you were using it in your last relationship..but she would not go along with it..and what does she think?

some people don't go along with all of it that is there..I sorta lived that on my side of my marriage already but my husband was a player and ran around on me..alot..many years off and on..was hard..he had no empathy, and was narcissic
and just cared about himself..I took care of all his needs and he did not give back..
sound familar..
but your not married and you can walk away..
unless she is willing to work on it..but I think it is a lost cause because of her horses they are her life and have been probably since small and if you are not in with that crowd and showing and riding or cleaning etc..hauling then you won't fit in with her snobby friends..sorry but that is the problem..

please really consider getting away you can always go back ya know..don't take any thing that don't belong to you..when you leave but take things you added to the house to make it nice for both of you..ok...?

well I guess I wrote enough unsoliceted advice..but I hate to see the good guys get taken advantage of because it gives us good women a bad name..there are some of you guys and us women..
I am too old for you or I would flirt with you...
hahah..I am almost 60 so I do know what I Am talking about..you probably want an old fashioned girl..tradition marriage one women..
till death do you part..someone you can be proud of that wont insult you or embaress you.I am sure you will find someone go to a church singles group be choosey... I was the type of person like I wrote I am not bragging but am glad I can hold onto my values..and God..my relationship is the most important thing to me..see my hubbys gone passed away..but thats ok he was mean..and nasty..and I am ok without him.I have adjusted.
I don't get to go out much now but thats ok .
I have a dog..I am ok my daughter comes around
I see my son youngest one is 36 my daughter is
39 my other son is 41 I have 4 grandchildren...

when you move you need a dog first..before a girlfriend..so you can take walks..and play in the park good way to meet women is with a puppy..grin you can always volunteer to walk them excercise them from the pound..we have that type of thing in my state..

well talk to ya later..keep me posted what you do..this can turn into an interesting life you will have..move out.....really..think about what do you have in common...she goes out you sit there..or clean waiting on her wondering when she will be back..right??
Keep on keeping on.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
drop me a line sometime if you leave the boards..let me know how your doing..I will be praying for you.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

earthangel@telcomplus.net
edited to add e-mail

<small>[ June 10, 2003, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: SadEyes ]</small>

I was going to ask you something but am not sure if I should..depending on how often you have been intimate..did it stop?

I was wondering if perhaps she is Bi-Sexual
if she has had sex with you then she isn't a lesbian..but maybe her lack of affection to you
and her snottiness..is because she is either way.
do you think there is a chance of that?

have you ever observed her with her girlfriends..

what state do you live in other then frustration..
like Florida Kentucky..? or a differnet country then usa?

IF your in Florida there is a good chance she can be Bi.

I dunno I just figure if in her marriage she was that way too then maybe that is what is wrong with her..

do you know her first husband you can call him and maybe get together with him and compare notes.. to see if he can offer any suggestions if you want to work it out..

it just seems weird to have someone as nice as you and not be interested and not attentive or
showing emotions or being physical with you does sound strange..

I think some people are cut out to live alone.
others are cut out to be together and sometimes
people get with the wrong person. then what happens they stay in a bad relationship like I did because of my values and christian upbringing, that God hates divorce, so I tried everything I could to get him to pay attention to me..cooking baking cleaning, taking up sports hobbies etc..he liked sailing and I hated the water but did it..

but you know he never did any thing I wanted to do..would not even sit on the patio with me.. it so weird..do what he wants always..I am not saying I didn't enjoy things he did cause I did..
we did things as a family like camping, whe we did that he had ms..and was in a wheelchair and didn[t go to do anything with me..to the lodge etc he stayed and studied in the motorhome..in the aircondited while I took care of the kids..
I was very compromising..did what he wanted..put his needs first..now I find out I did it all wrong..lol..but thats how I thought we were suppose to be to try to meet their needs..
I got the short end of the stick..to bad I didn't poke him with it..rofl..

well I hope you are ok..

well hope you figure it out..have a great life when you do..take care.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

SadEyes,

I am very new to the post, but I will try this quote thingie.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> so gee I wonder how often do you do these things? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I cook almost every night. As for cleaning, I do it as needed. I just replaced the brakes on her truck, installed an exterior door and screen, fixed up her horse trailer not too long ago... it is just ongoing. And I don't mind doing these things. I don't do it to impress her, but because I want to help out around the house and I do like to cook.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> what does or did she do while out of work? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, when she was out of work (August to December of last year) she and I spent a lot of time together. She had her horses at another barn, and whenever we went out there it was just the two of us... and we were able to squeeze some quality time out of the experience. Now she has her horses at another barn, and the couple who own it are "good friends" of hers now. Whenever she goes out there it is a major social event. I have tried to go with her, but I am usually a third-wheel of sorts. All they talk about is horses or her work. I am sooooo tired of hearing about horses. I know very little about them, even though I have tried to learn. We do not talk to each other if I go to the barn now, as G (man) and E (woman) who own the barn consume her time - as well as the horse activities. I just stand around like an idiot.

She works full time now, but her training is not over yet. Off and on for the last several months, she has had to fly out of state for her training. But, when she is home (and even immediately the next day after coming home) she makes it a point to go to horse events or something other than spending time with me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> how old are both of you? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am 36 and she is 41.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> what interests do you have other then her? that occupys your time? or do you do everything for her? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have other interests.. I love being outdoors.. I have a Jeep and we live near a wilderness preserve. I like to drive out there and take photographs or ride my mountian bike. But, in the spirit of trying to follow the MB policies.. I know that we need to have recreational activities that we can enjoy together. I have attended many of the horse shows, and training, and went to the barn a lot, but now I just can't do it anymore. There is nothing for me, and she never does anything that I enjoy. So... I have not been enjoying the things I like because I know that I will do them alone. I have been afraid that if I leave her to her hobby and am not there, that she will find another man who enjoys horses to, and then I would lose her. I guess I should hope for that, though, shouldn't I? Sheesh.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I do feel bad for you that you are in that situation but you are not stuck there.. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am only stuck emotionally. And it is quite a mess.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ...as far as the animals go..... but the thing is you need to leave them with someone who is totally responsible because she is going to care more about her animales being gone then you being gone.. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, that is absolutely true. She is far more concerned about her pets than she would ever be for me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am sorry but that is the type of person she is.
she seems to not have feelings for you... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Problem is, she tells me that she loves me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ...talk about that stuff next time after you go out for a couple weeks and get to know someone new..show them marriage builders stuff..and tell her you were using it in your last relationship..but she would not go along with it..and what does she think?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree totally. Too bad MB site does not have a dating center. I think that I could find someone who really could care here. After all, if we didn't care, we wouldn't be here, right?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> some people don't go along with all of it that is there..I sorta lived that on my side of my marriage already but my husband was a player and ran around on me..alot..many years off and on..was hard..he had no empathy, and was narcissic
and just cared about himself..I took care of all his needs and he did not give back..
sound familar.. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sounds like my situation, without the player part. I think that J is a barren wasteland as far as romance and affection and sex are concerned.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> but your not married and you can walk away.. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So much easier said than done. But I know that I must do it somehow. I guess I feel like I might not ever be able to find someone who will treat me like I think I deserve. Dating stinks... and I am pretty shy, too.

I appreciate the advice. Very much. I often question myself if I am being unreasonable... and it is nice to have some support.

Funny you should mention going to a church group - that's another thing... we go to the same church. Not that I couldn't move to another, but I love our church. Always one thing after another.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am too old for you or I would flirt with you... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">... blush.... well, thank you. That is quite sweet...

I am sorry you were not happy in your marriage. Have you tried to find someone else since your husband passed away? Finding someone good, it is very difficult, I know. Very much so.

Pets are wonderful, I am glad you have a dog. I love dogs... and they are wonderful companions.

I am also glad that you get to see your daughter, too. I have often thought that I have missed out by not having children - but the woman I was married to - that would have been a nightmare...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ..think about what do you have in common...she goes out you sit there..or clean waiting on her wondering when she will be back..right?? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I spend too much time waiting for her. I do try to be active when she is gone, but I end up sitting around and feeling hurt and used and sad and angry.

Thank you again for the support. I have your email and I will keep writing.

K

SadEyes,

Good Morning,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I was going to ask you something but am not sure if I should..depending on how often you have been intimate..did it stop? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For the first 4 or 5 months, we were intimate about 4 times a week. After that, it went to about once a week, and now it has been about two weeks. I ALWAYS have to initiate, and she is just pretty much a cold fish when we “get started”. She seems to enjoy it, though, but she does not reciprocate anything. She just lays there any lets me do all the work.

Lately, I have been rejected so much when I try to initiate lovemaking, that I have given up. Why bother when you are shot down all the time? I am so bitter and resentful. I consider myself a very passionate and loving and unselfish partner, and I would be happy making love once (or sometimes more) a day. Once every two weeks just makes me want to stop altogether and give up.



</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I was wondering if perhaps she is Bi-Sexual
if she has had sex with you then she isn't a lesbian..but maybe her lack of affection to you
and her snottiness..is because she is either way.
do you think there is a chance of that? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, I don’t think she is bi or a lesbian, I just think that she has zero sex drive, and zero sex interest. She went for 11 years without sex, and didn’t miss it. Told me that early on in the relationship. I should have run then, but we were having sex about 4 times a week, so I thought… HUH?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> have you ever observed her with her girlfriends.. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, it is just horse talk. That is all that interests her. Oh, and her job.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> what state do you live in other then frustration..
like Florida Kentucky..? or a differnet country then usa? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Absolutely the state of frustration…. We live in Kentucky. Imagine that. Lol

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I dunno I just figure if in her marriage she was that way too then maybe that is what is wrong with her.. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am starting to learn, if a woman says: “my husband and I…” either: A) never had sex, ever. Or B) rarely had sex… I am going to run away… fast.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> do you know her first husband you can call him and maybe get together with him and compare notes.. to see if he can offer any suggestions if you want to work it out.. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He lives here in our town. I don’t know him, but he is a Dr. at the university. I would be a little uncomfortable trying to contact him. I think I know enough about what happened, though. J has told me that she married him because it was her father’s dying wish that she get married. She said that she never loved him, but she does love me. They lived separate lives from the honeymoon on. Also, no physical contact, ever, after the marriage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> it just seems weird to have someone as nice as you and not be interested and not attentive or
showing emotions or being physical with you does sound strange.. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The only need J has is to be with her horses and friends. She told me that her horses and friends kept her sane and happy when she was going through the many years of her unhappy marriage. So, she has never learned to love a man in a romantic way, and never learned to rely on him (i.e., me) for happiness or emotional support, etc. All her needs are met by her hobby and friends.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> but you know he never did any thing I wanted to do..would not even sit on the patio with me.. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The “norm” in relationships is for one person to care, and the other to take advantage of the other. After marriage, it is so easy to fall into the “I take you for granted” mode. It’s a wonder why anyone gets married anymore. I won’t ever again, unless I can find a woman who realizes what is important and someone who will read and live the MB philosophies and agree to always try to make the relationship work.

K

Good afternoon,
at least here it is.

well one thing that is surprising about her J
she says she loves you.

Do you think it is just impossible for her to show anyone emotions?

if she married the other man because of her dad, to please him. perhaps she is a people pleaser and the way she gets her strokes is with the horse riding, when she wins trophys and maybe she has done that a long time now and does indeed love it.

If you are going to stay with the relationship then maybe you need to start by joining a mountainbike club and go take photography and put pictures online..go look at the stuff my daughter does..everyone is encouraging her to do a book..with her writtings she does and pictures
she now has a channel of her own..and putting things she loves there..her husband is starting to give her a hard time she married someone older.

they are really in love, but since she has been working on the computer he finds he doesn't get as much attention by that I mean her sitting at his side for a football game baseball...she is not interested in that..she did have her own business had a greenhouse..then broke a rib and never got back to it..

so she started learning the computer she did like I did and got a hobby for ourself and then hubbys didn't like it..
the thing is her husband does not understand her relationship with the Lord..he is catholic...I was raised catholic..but found the Lord in the 70's
well he thinks she is starting a cult because she passes out literature little testaments from
a ministry that sends you 50 free ones a month and she lives them at different places..he does not understand her love for God or the things she does on the computer..her photography is beautiful and her lil stories illustrations that go with them are inspired by the Lord to her..
go look she has some great pics of a lady bug coming out of its shell..and other pics that amaze me..she also taught herself everything she knows about the puter..self taught. I am proud of her..

perhaps you need some hobbies and if you stay with her tell her you are wanting to stay with her but in order to do that you need some hobbies too and not other women but need to do something because sitting around is driving you crazy.

she can keep doing the horse thing and tell her you will go to a couple shows to watch but when your around you need her to acknowledge your presence and also introduce you to her friends..

I forgot I am on a message board..I had to erase a whole thing here..and rewrite it..rofl..arghh...I need to send you an e-mail it is something I don't want everyone to know..lol..

do you think if you tell her she will listen?
do you think she would care if you left?
it seems like you truly feel she doesn't care if you are there or not..does she call when away?
can you call her and she is where she says..

I know the barns when you say barn..rofl..the horses at where my daughter in law and grandaughter are at her dads place and it is also a boarding place with a huge indoor riding arena with an upstairs loft for watching..etc..
and guest rooms and tack room and showers for horses..THEY ARE BLACK AND WHITE TILED..lol.

they are even heated to an extent

but when we went out they all have this attitude to the outsiders like they are in a world different from ours sort of even make us feel like they look down their noses at us..money maybe?? I don't know but the thing is...when we
lived in Calif we had horses..to play on trail ride..no showing..for enjoyment of the outdoors..
also on a farm before husband got real bad, kids had ponies etc..we did not behave in that manner
we tried to figure it out..my other son and his wife are slighted by the others because their kids don't even know their cousins...and they have their parties etc at easter christman and the rest of our family is not family where they are concerned..they do not make time except for horse things..so I understand that part..of it..it is not you..I bet she will asure you of that..but the thing is..can you live like that and live having to keep pushing your needs aside for as little time as she gives you?
do you know how to carve leather?

if you did you could do some leather work on saddles some people like flowers and leaves tapped into their saddles..you could make money doing it..even belts..grin..moccasins from tandy leather..check it out..

hope you did a good job on her brakes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
I am sure you did..

does she have sibblings? or was she an only child?
(gosh I ask alot of questions..don't I?)
I don't think age matters with you two..my daughter married someone older and it did not seem to matter with them..his first wife got preg after he had a vasectomy..he had two daughters she helped raise since 10 and 12 the hard years..

It is a shame that he has a problem with her reading her bible too much..and playing her christian music..she goes to church..too and the thing is he went but does not go ..mostly cause he misses his games..he coaches little league and I love him and think he is wonderful and think this is hard for them..what really makes it difficult is she also has been approached from someone who writes music and wants some of her music she wrote and he feels threatened like she will meet someone and leave him...that would not happen..then of course her enthusiasum for God is doing damage and that is the last thing he needs to worry about..

well I should not write this some of it here.and you probably have said too much when I write I really forget where i am because I am use to e-mail.
so if you want to answer and feel uncomfortable answering here in view of everyone let me know and e-mail me..I will understand if you don't want to e-mail if you do then just post your e-mailing so I don't delete it..lol

you know this stuff of yours needs to be in the emotional section of message boards..then you would get lots of more in put think of pasting a new one or move this one..

there are alot of people women in message boards who would make great company but they all came out of relationships divorce recently
right now I am mailing a couple who are in the process of divorcing..3 actually one is even from Kentucky ..but she has 2 small children..grin..
she still posts on message board..hehe.but it is not the place..to pick people up too much hurt etc..think people need probably 2 years after a relationship of a marriage to learn to live alone first..
well gotta go..blessings..I pray she will show some kindness to you soon..gee go to the barn when everyone is gone and ask her to lets do something different..but then I don't think if your not married you outght to be doing that..rofl..thinking of hay..
maybe that is her problem? your not married..ask her if things were different and you were married would she be different then? maybe the affections are stiffled for a reason..???
or maybe your settled like old married people
should I say some..as bad as things got with us..it didn't change my feelings in that dept..he was my only...shrug...but some don't care for
that part only when they want kids..strange but true..Keep on Keeping on..
EarthAngel

Ohh yeah I am suffering from heart failure and not a canidate for heart transplant would not want one anyway..will not even have CPR done..
anyway I don't look that attractive with a air thing in my nose..rofl..hehe..unless everyone was wearing one..then yeah I look better then most..is what my doctor told me..lol he said in all he sees..in these I look better then most and he is younger then me..rofl but he was just being nice..hehe..
see these letters..rst down there it goes up in the post but not sure where..lol
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> rst hey came back to edit to add this
url for you

well thats weird came back to do the url but it didnt show up so will do it again..
[URL=http://my.homewithgod.com/graftmein/index.html]don't forget to sign her guestbook

<small>[ June 11, 2003, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: SadEyes ]</small>

SadEyes,

Thank you for your post... I replied to your email.. let me know if you don't get it, ok?

Take care,

K

hi!
I did get it, now that I have e-mail I will
send it to you..
I will get back to you later today it's only about 5 pm here right now..am going to eat and check my snail mail..lol.

feed Shazri, my dog and then come back to puter so I usually spend a few hours here..at night..
ok talk later...EarthAngel

hi again..
I finally finished a project today I was working on..now I don't have to worry about getting back to it..is a gift to be mailed to someone..It is on wood tole painting..

well I wrote you and you should have it so just let me know you got it..I did get yours...
it will say from earthangel

thinking of becoming a match maker..lol

talk later..it was looooonnnngggg letter..lol. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SadEyes:

well I wrote you and you should have it so just let me know you got it..I did get yours...
it will say from earthangel

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you! Yes, I got it. I am fashioning a reply even now...

Thanks again for all your concern / support thus far.

K

incoming e-mail. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Hi bit_chomper
I just wanted to add my 2cents worth on your situation. If you want things to work out with this women and you have tried everything on MB to get her to see how much you adore her than maybe she isnt the one. I know how you feel when you feel like you are second best I felt that way too. I felt my husband was so preoccupied with his job ( army) that in a way he was desensitized to my needs as his wife. I told him I had to take iron cause i was becoming anemic his reply was " you will be alright" now ordinarily i would think the same but when you have never been anemic in your whole life unless you were pregnant it worried me and i thought he would show a little bit of concern and not think i was a whiner like the soldiers he works with are sometimes. I can go on and on about my story and i have told sad eyes about alot of it . I think alot of advice given on this website is good especially when you hear from both sexes it makes you understand what each one wants out of a relationship and how to work it out. I just wish i would of found this website along time ago and not when it was already too late. If you want to write me privately I will give permission to sad eyes to give it to you. She is a terrific person and a total sweetheart.

toosad

hi TOOSAD , <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
glad to see you finally posting again.
I think it is important to do that so you don't keep dwelling and getting no place with your beating yourself up and getting help with some of your concerns..was wondering what you got planned now for your move? is there someone to help you or are your parents going to come up there to help you?
how far away is it to there from where you are now??
IF I were you when you move and the divorce is final think about getting the phone # changed..do all correspondence in the mail with X so he can't keep making you feel bad..he doesn't call the kids anyway. your son is old enough to start writting to him which is better for him cause he can think it out and write it and then have a copy from his dad to read when he misses him..especially to build up his character..tell him he is proud of him about his accomplishments..etc. they can have their own personal relationship that way and it will be good for both of them..of course it is up to dad and son to maintain it..you can encourage son to write him and if dad does not write back you cannot be held responsible for that part of it..
i think all men need to write their children and tell them what they think of them and if they don't or can't then they do not think of them and that is sad...

same with men and daughters and lil girls when old enough to write..too same thing..they need daddys input..
be kept posted about things and recitals etc..and invitation comes from the child..it's up to them IF they want the other parent there or not..Then they can invite them they can sit someplace else..
hope things go smoother for you once things are signed and you know who gets the children and you know i AM praying on that one..I think you have done good and are doing better everyday.you sound like your not crying as much..some things you cannot fix..once it is broken..and maybe this is one of them..because both have to want it to be fixed..and work on it..it takes two..two in marriage and the Lord..it's hard to forgive ourself at times and to keep having it tossed in our faces and dug up to look at over and over is not healthy..

I had written a book on..this and was in my puter..and hubby erased it when he redid the computer as he did frequently..I am not sure but it might still be on disk..someplace..
also my earthangel Webpages I am hoping I can retrieve my daughter thinks she copied them from puter and put them on hers because she knew I would erase them again..as I did once before..because hubby was angry to think I learned how to do that stuff without books..

he was struggling to learn c+ and some other stuff..plus wanting to learn to do web pages..and then got angry when he saw my pages up and running..he had my daughters site..and it took along time for him to go look at it finally..he was a jealous man..and the thing is he was really brilliant and sharp in that way..any thing he wanted to do..he did..but if we did it..well than that was that..for him..he did not do it anymore or lost interest in it...shrug..what was that about??

well I am sure you have a long exciting life ahead of you..I think your mom and dad will have fun watching your children while you get your life on track..again..and the kids are going to be thrilled and push you out the door..to be with grandma and grandpa alone..my grand kids did that..lol..liked being alone with me..would open the door and PUUUUSSSSHHHH mom and dad gooooo gooo...lol..it was out special time...together..
I miss that..but they are teenagers..one is..lol..
don't have time for grandma..now..hugs TooSad
think you need a new name..and not asfreakyasyoucanget something good..because you are sweet..not deserving of putting your self down..think something nice..like..hrmmm we all need to work on this one..lol...
-----------------------

and
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> BIT-CHOMPER
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> good afternoon..to you
...
how are you doing

so where have you run off to? think that I need to take and bind a book, right? my memoirs..
I wonder what the last chapters will bring..
happiness or sadness?
discomfort or pain..
or a little of both..

hey so what's happening with the happening man?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> hope things are going better and you are able to make some decisions about your future..

just take time to know what it is you really want out of life and get in the place to make it possible..just remember that God is suppose to be number one..perhaps going to church would be great to start off at least then you will know you are in the right place..I think..lol if you remember the $20.00 glass of water I told you about then it might be the wrong place..
you need to read your mail if you don't understand that one..I would like to go back to church now but don't want to be singled out..oh here is a sick one..then everyone comes and picks me apart..lol cause I have a tube for air..

like animals they people do that..animals especially chickens..peck at each other if it is ill till they kill it..I am far from being a chicken thats for sure..

did you know ducks pair for life and when one goes to the ground and they are flying in formation..that one will leave the group and go back and stay with it till it dies or gets well and go off together..isn't that nice..and then look what people do to each other..does not make sense..that Creatures give comfort..to each other like that..

well I need to go clean some..take care..and have fun while the weather is nice..hope you have no storms brewing there..

how is J doing? is she getting better? what would she do if she found out you were writting to a female?? well if you tell her my age..she would not care perhaps..but what IF I were really younger? would she have a hissy fit? seeing as she has male friends? that she plays with? in real life??
think about it..maybe ask her..lol
EVIL GRIN... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Sad eyes;

I have no idea what is going on with my move. I e-mailed my H and told him about it and he hasnt e-mailed me back yet. It is going to be 500+ dollars to move back home and I cant afford that and I really dont think my parents should have to pay for it.

My phone number will be a brand new number when i move home and I dont know whether to give it to him or not especially if he doesnt stop being disrespectful to me and I am sure his family will want it so they can ask to see the kids. I am not ready to face them yet.

I had the kids sit down and send an e-card to there dad for fathers day . I would of had them pick out a card at a store but I dont have his new address yet.I asked my son to write something anythign he wanted to say and all he wants to do is ask him to buy him something. I dont know what to make of that behavior or is that just normal 9 yr old kid stuff?

He is also not going to make me feel guilty for not sending them over. He chose to stay over there when he could of easily went on to his next duty station and would already be seeing them now.

I am not crying as muchwhats done is done and I cnat change what happened but i can learn from it. I think if he came back now he would just throw it in my face especailly during our intimate moments and that is not healthy if we are trying to move on it will just hinder our plans to move ahead. I would not ask him to forget all i would ask for is a chance to move forward and put the past in the past.

WE not only are going to be around our parents but also my sisters and his parents and his siblings too. I jsut wish we could of went back home as a family instead of this happening . When we would go home it was like we finally had time to be a couple where as when we were here we would have to hunt down a babysitter and the only places he wanted to go to were bars. I dont mind the small bars but the dance club ones i hate cause they are filled with nothing more than meatmarkets.

I have thought about changing my name but have no idea what to change it to. Any suggestions?

TooSad,

I think that he should pay to move you as seeing as you are still married to him and the kids are with you..

when you go home...you need to figure out what to do as far as his parents and the kids..
perhaps you can arrange to see them by having someone else take them there like your sister..but the thing is they might have no interest if he is not home..
besides you don't need to bring up anything tell them you want to keep everything positive in front of your children and will not make dispariging remarkd toward or about their son and you hope they all the family will also do that to you and for the children to have a good relationship with everyone..

I don't think it is necessary to talk about the past with them..your not children and it was between you and him..not them..
don't be snottie but just let them no it will not be tolerated..and IF they do not listen to what you tell them take the children by the hand and leave..whenever it happens..do not allow it by sitting there..you do not have to take it from anyone..ok?
actually I think your husband needs to burry the hatchet..he has already done enough already, he needs to also bury the handle..and go on with his life..and you yours..

I think in the future he will see what he lost..
that you were not that person..and now you know who you really are..and have a good belief system and are a family person..I think what happened is you became what he wanted..sounds weird..but it seems to me that is what happend..or even it was planned part of it..from his end..

did you know you can go to someone on base and tell them you need to dip into their emergency fund to move..they have one..also get the chaplin involved..he will not judge you he will get people to help you move if needed..
what about the national service officer..the one I have helped me out lots us here...

what you need to do is find someone with a truck
or someone who can hall a u-haul..actually if you know how to pull a uhaul
you can do it..just get someone to load it then have your dad and others there to unload it and then deliver the uhaul locally..simple..and less then 500.00

will they give you a moving allowance?
can you get your parents to take the kids for a few days so you can pack without them getting in the way..? so you have some time for yourself before going down there?

you also need to remember when his sisters want to see the kids it can be from the parents house when your there..don't let them all invade your property..keep them out of your home and life..
so you can have one...that is the mistake a friend of mine made..and she saw more of the mom and dad and sisters then she ever had while married..she finally put her foot down and told them to see the kids on his time..not hers..while he has them ..she was or did not want to be part of the family then..I don't blame her..

I just know I would keep my kids close..ya know..your parents are safe and love them and want whats good for them..

yes it is typical for your son to ask dad to buy him something..thats part of what dads do..
I think he also probably means something he can keep with him to hold and look at and know it came from daddy..like does he collect anything those beanie things? seems like a while back all did that..
he is starting to get too old for stuffed animals..but right about now, maybe he needs one..a monkey or something boyish..it needs to come from DAD...to son...so it will be a bond thing for him, he really wants his daddy...but that is not going to happen..I doubt he will ever be around for them, he is living in Korea now..
and he is probably not going to be home for a long time..when does he get to come home?

where would he have been stationed at if not korea.? would you have been there then?? I cannot imagine living in a place like that just cause someone says you need to be especially today things are so different and scarey too..

I was safe and sound during the cuban missle crisis in our own lil apartment..while he was there but we were not there..in cuba..
nor would I have gone to another state..I needed to be around family cause I was pregnant..and
we moved when he got out of the service..Biggest mistake I made..I long today for my old home..bottom flat in boston..near the beach..and my friends since childhood..all scattered now though. and some not so nice any more other interests etc..I never liked bars...or drinking,
my dad was a drunk..and my family were mostly alcoholics drunk at night went to work days..lol
all claim not to have a drinking problem..cause..
they say..I WORK no problem..lol..haa..

well sweetie if I lived near you I would help you to move..I would drive the u haul for you..really and watch the kids..

the closest base I live to is oak harbor where all the jets came from that went to war..and whidbey island naval base
and that is about an hour ride from me..that is one of the nicest places..because it is so close to campgrounds and stuff..and the gateway to fun in the islands..here.to see the whales..

well gonna go get something..I will pray something
comes up for you to help move..this is where his buddies should be stepping up to the plate that are there..ya know..take care..

forgot I Tried to change my name today and also would have to change my nick and e-mail..I have other e-mails maybe soon I will do it..lol I will let you know..

did your lawyer explain to you what happens next?
did you sign? do you have a copy? to read???
Keep on keeping on..

go check this out it is somthing thought provoking and must have been a difficult decision for this person..one I am not sure I would be willing or able to do...

but decisions we make are just as difficult some times..don't you think??
wow this was amazing ..let me know what you think.

I guess I can cut off what I need to then..grin..
so I can be happy..yes.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
whoops it didn't work will try this.

interesting

<small>[ June 14, 2003, 09:40 PM: Message edited by: SadEyes ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Hi bit_chomper
I just wanted to add my 2cents worth on your situation. If you want things to work out with this women and you have tried everything on MB to get her to see how much you adore her than maybe she isnt the one. I know how you feel when you feel like you are second best I felt that way too. I felt my husband was so preoccupied with his job ( army) that in a way he was desensitized to my needs as his wife. I told him I had to take iron cause i was becoming anemic his reply was " you will be alright" now ordinarily i would think the same but when you have never been anemic in your whole life unless you were pregnant it worried me and i thought he would show a little bit of concern and not think i was a whiner like the soldiers he works with are sometimes. I can go on and on about my story and i have told sad eyes about alot of it . I think alot of advice given on this website is good especially when you hear from both sexes it makes you understand what each one wants out of a relationship and how to work it out. I just wish i would of found this website along time ago and not when it was already too late. If you want to write me privately I will give permission to sad eyes to give it to you. She is a terrific person and a total sweetheart.

toosad</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Toosad, thank you for your post.

Although I want things to work out with J, I know deep in my heart that she will never change. I have been beating my head against the wall for so long. I try to leave her little MB articles, and try to talk to her, but all I get is anger. Whenever we try to talk, she twists my words around and gets very mad. So, I don’t know what else to do. I can’t make her care about me, and I can’t make her see how unreasonable she is… and to complicate things even more, she is probably the most independent woman alive. No joke.

What do you see as the turning point for your relationship with your husband?

I have found that I have become resentful, and that resentment has caused me to stop giving 100000000000000 percent like I was in the beginning of the relationship. I am so tired of giving my all and not getting anything in return but rejection.

I would be interested in writing to you. SadEyes has my email address, so if you are feeling adventurous, ask her for it, and drop me a line, if you would like. Perhaps we can help each other get over some of this pain.

Take care, and try to find happiness and contentment in the little things. That’s what always pulled me through.

K

Bit_chomper

I think the turning point to get my husband and i back together would be some major changes in the way we act towards each other. I think he thinks i am this dependant persone relying on him to keep me busy . I am sorry but when you love someone dont you want to spend as much time with them as much as possible considering he may leave at any time for some unknown place being in the military they can go anytime for any lenght of time.
He told me he always sacrificed for us when he left so we could have what we have. He knows I dont care about money plus it wasnt like we were bringing in alot of money the military for what they and there familys have to endure is not worth the measly paycheck they get. The only thing i asked was for us to get out because i knew if we continued on it wouldnt last. He would get home long enough for us to get settled again and get almost on track then he would leave again . We never really had any time to get back to us.
I feel even though he was affectionate towards me physically that is he wasnt much in the emotional part. He never expressed his emotions especially when we had our 2 kids . I thought he would of gotten teary eyed but he didnt. He hardly ever showed his emotions to me and would get uncomfortable if i cried. Maybe that is a man thing or maybe it was instilled in him being in the military. But believe me we do love to see a man get emotional it shows that they do care and everyone has feelings and they should show it and not be ashamed.
You sound so much like me when you say you have started to resent her that is how i feel with my husband. I feel like he never listend to my pleas and seemed to not care about my feelings and get out. I also despised him for leaving me and the kids as much as he did. Yeah that is his job but would you stay in a job that was hurting not only your spouse but your kids too? He also thinks this will be ok us getting a divorce that everyone will be alright and ok. He says he wants to go out and date and wants his life back. When he said that it just hurt me like our life together was just a facade.
I havent heard from sad eyes in a few days but i will ask her for your address or she can be our go between.

Well check your e-mails both of you.
I wrote you both long long e-mail..

I love to write..lol..
I am going to have to work on my web pages again so I can get them back up..

I need too look up meds to see reactions, side effects..then maybe I can stop worrying..grin..

Kim is school over for your son..? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
have you started packing yet?

well I am going to finish my bills and do dishes..and take a bath..and will come and write more later..

Take care..it's too hot to sit at the puter right now...

Hello, TooSad,

SadEyes is a sweetie, isn’t she? She has been through so much.

Thank you for your post. I agree with you, when you love someone you should want to be with them and spend as much time as possible together. Especially if one of you are going to be away for awhile. That is the way I felt about J – she would leave for two weeks for a business trip, then the next day after coming back she would go off to an all-day horse event. Then she would usually do something similar the next day after that. Sure put me in my place. I guess I should have been born a horse, eh? Lol

What would you say are some of the most important things to you when in a relationship? If you could have your wishes granted, how would you change your husband’s behavior? How would you have change your own? What would you do differently in the future to help prevent the events which have happened to you?

It sounds like he did try to provide for the family, but at the expense of being together and at the expense of your needs. What were his needs? Forgive me for being so personal. I guess I am just curious and concerned. I have gone through a lot of what you seem to be going through, and I hate it for you.

Just like the MB site says, the only way for love to be sustained is if the partners spend a minimum amount of quality time each week together. You guys spent months apart. A love cannot grow or thrive under conditions like that. I guess that is why so many Hollywood marriages end – they just never see each other enough to stay in love.

So, your husband was not very outwardly emotional? Would you have liked for him to be? So many men are caught up on being “macho” and manly that they feel like it is a weakness to be sensitive or caring or emotional. Well, J thinks that I am too emotional. I get teary watching a sad story on t.v. or a movie. Hahaha The hazards of being a caring, sensitive guy. I need to change that, though. Gets me hurt every time. I need to be a player.

Oh, yes, I resent the heck out of my situation. Mostly because it has changed from the beginning of the relationship, and also because I know how great a relationship can be when two people give to each other totally. Money, jobs, everything else in life is second to love, in my opinion. Because, you can quit or be fired from your job, lose or gain money – but love is constant, if you make it that way. Never give up, and never quit. But it only works if both people are truly committed to each other. So often, one person just quits caring.

We all have needs. Like the MB site tells us, men’s and women’s needs are different, but that is ok as long as we understand the needs, communicate, and make sure that we do everything possible to meet each other’s most important emotional needs.

Unfortunately, your children will be the main sufferers of the divorce. I do not have any children, and I guess that was the good thing when I got divorced. I feel so sorry for your situation, because it just rips the family apart.

When you husband says he wants to go out and date, is he not just saying that he wants to meet his sexual needs with other women? Or is it something else? Retaliation for your affair? Did he think that his needs were being met when he was with you? Were yours met when he was around?

What does he mean he wants his life back? Where did the misery start? Why won’t he try to reconcile? There is a piece of this puzzle that is missing, somehow…

I hope I have not been too personal with this post. Certainly if you don’t want to answer, I understand. But, if you want, you can email me back if posting would be too personal and public.

Take care,

K

looking over my shoulder to be sure it is safe to come in here now:)

wow some interview there..K..lol..and i thought I asked alot of questions...rofl..

actually you like the same desert my husband liked..only he liked a reg crust.

you know what else is good because you like the graham cracker crust..
take a brownie baking dish..
layer it with graham crackers do not break them up.(cook jello chocolate fudge one...) take and put some one top of crackers.then add another of cackers, then jello..sorta like you layer lasagne..then end with the pudding. then when you serve it add whipping cream or cool whip..
of course u put this in the fridge to keep it

TooSad <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
let me know before you shut your phone down because that will mean no connecting here..
I think I will send you my mail and phone # this week because other wise we might loose contact with each other..ok..

I really got to lay down for awhile..lol...
check your mail..ok.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Bit_chomper

I would say the most important things to a relationship would be that our family comes first before anyone or anything.
If I could change my H behavior it would be him actually listening instead of falling asleep on me when we would be finally able to be alone. For us to do something together romantic and not go to a club also he acts kind of childish like a 19 yr ol in a 34 yr old body. I am not interested in clubs but if i suggested a picnic in the park or something to that effect he sees it as we are old married people . How I would change myself would be to listen more and also i would try to come up with ideas to get us out of the house and do stuff not only together but as a family also.
In my new relationship whether it is with my H or soemone new I would be more open with my feelings and not keep everything inside untill it got to the point where i would explode.
I think my H's needs are to know I will hold down the fort while he is away and cotinue to do that till he retires. I think he always loved the military and had no intention on getting out or was afraid to I dont know he never told me.
I am not saying I wnated him to cry over every little thing but he didnt seem too emotional when our kids were born . My leg was hurting and i was limping did he drive me to the hospital no he stayed home with the kids. Come to find out i had gotten a blood clot from having our daughter and it ran all the way down my leg i was admitted to the hospital for a week . When i got home the house was a wreck which i had to clean up slowly by myself he had to go back to work.
I think in a way he wnats retaliation for my affair he says it problably wont be too much dating as much as sex. He just cant go out and do it till we are divorced he is afraid of getting caught and getting in trouble. I think he may have did something with someone whether it was physical or not he stopped calling me and writing me hardly ever it had been a month one time or maybe more if i look back on it that he didnt speak to our kids.
He wasnt meeting my emotional needs and i wasnt meeting his physical needs . I think if i would of been getting the emotional needs i needed then he would of gotten plenty of the physical needs from me.
I think we started falling apart a few yrs ago after having dealt with so many deployments and not getting back on track

SAd eyes: I will give you all my info before i start moving dont worry you will not lose contact with me. I also hope you get to feeling better and hopefully will be taken off the oxygen. That would be great huh?