After I read all the posts I often find myself sitting there shaking my head. So much pain and misunderstanding. It seems like the fabric of the universe should not be able to bear it.
<br>Another thing...as I read over the posts I see so much commonality between our various situations. Before our problems we felt like just another couple isolated from all others. Now we can see that there is something happening in relationships all over the country, probably the world. Various factors are involved such as the difference between how male and female see and feel about things and the spirit of the times in which we live.
<br>The point I'm trying to make is that I can see that all of this was a lot more predictable than I knew, seeeing that it is happening so uniformly to so many. On the positive side it is always good to have your store of knowledge about how life really operates updated. On the negative side we live with the constant uncertainty that this knowledge may have come too late to save our relationships.
<br>So many variables are involved. For example I'm emotional and have always had a tendency to magnify things to a greater degree than it may actually deserve. Therefore I can be positively fuming inside about a thing that my wife didn't mean the way I took it. So to some extent that means I can sabotage myself before I give things a chance to come to a good conclusion.
<br>I feel I'm just rambling now but the main thing I was trying to say was that I think it is such a shame that this phenomenom of so many relationships going sour is actually so predictable and therefore largely avoidable. It is so pathetic to know that so large an amount of pain didn't really have to be, and that so many relationships continue to walk ignorantly into the line of fire when there are so many of us that know about the danger.
<br>To me this says that there is something seriously wrong with a lot more than jsut our marriages. There is something wrong with prevailing views of life in this country down to the very root.
<br>Just some thooughts. Not particularly helpful or uplifting perhaps, but if we come through this with revived relationships I think we'll be back in the same boat again if we don't face the reality I just described.

Steph,
<br>Thank you again for your support. I feel that you may be the "veteren" in this thread. 6 years is a long time. I commend you for your patience and undying love. I know I will need to come here for words of encouragement often. I probably won't be leaving until early November, I want to give it another month.
<br>Thanks again
<p>Ken,
<br>I wouldn't even consider letting my wife move out. First, our daughter would need to stay with her and I don't want to screw up her schedule, she's comfortable in the house and to uproot her wouldn't be right.
<br>Second, I feel that if my wife were to get her own place there would be an element of excitement for her. New surroundings, new everything. I feel that the fact that I'm not there would be lost in this "newness". I want her to be in a familiar setting with one main ingrediant missing - me. My absense might be more of an impact. Plus she can't afford to be on her own. I want to leave because I know in my mind that I will return. I can only afford to stay away for about 2 months. This is just a trial. If after this period of time, she wants it to be more permanent, God forbid, then we will have to sit down and make some sort of agreement and/or arrangement. I'm dying inside. Although last night when we went to bed, she reached over and kissed me goodnight - a first in a long time. And in the middle of the night I woke up to her stroking my hair and snuggling up next to me. I'm 99% sure I wasn't dreaming. But its things like this that make me feel the love is still in her, it's just not at the front of the line.
<br>Thanks for you help.
<br>Hang in there Bud!
<br>We will all be OK - Don't forget to love yourself too!
<br>Greg

Bruce, I think you are right, that these situations are really so predictable. I just wish that I knew that before it all happened. And to clarify a point I made in my last post. When I told my husband that I wanted him to "kiss my butt" I was referring to being REALLY nice and accomodating to me (thought this might make more sense to him than just saying I want you to be romantic), I did NOT mean--kiss my butt--as in kiss off.
<br>And Bruce, I think your evaluation of my and Steph comments are on target. The consistant behavior is important. I don't really believe my H because he gives me good intentions and empty promises.
<p>Steph, YES YES YES, it's things like helping out that mean so much, because you feel as tho he is in tune to your needs. A few years ago before my depression was full blown my H asked me what would help me feel better. I said just PLEASE give the kids their bath at night. THAT'S ALL. (I was with them allday, 3 kids under 5yo) He agreed to help me that way, but in 2 years time only gave them about 6 baths!!!! I went to a counselor a few years ago and she said (because of this and numerous other broken promises) that I just don't feel I can depend on him anymore. Things appear better now, because I don't EXPECT or ask anything of him anymore--but if I did the disappointment would still be there.
<p>Greg, It is possible that even tho you THINK you are fulfilling her needs, you aren't on target. You need to ask her if you are doing the right things, if not what would she like. And if you are doing the right things-- then ask her--- what's the problem? I hope that somehow you are doing the "wrong" things, cause if not, I don't know what her hesitation would be. I often wonder about that too, and just wonder if it means that my H and I aren't meant for each other. Also maybe now that the initial resentment is gone maybe you could be interested in dating, pleasing her, show her that you are interested, but in a non-needy way. Show passion, strength and interest, but still be your own person.. make sense??
<br>Good luck to all. I really appreciate all of you and this forum. I truly hope we can all help each other get out of these ruts.<p>[This message has been edited by GBM.]

Thanks, GBM
<p>Right now I feel the only need she has that I'm not fullfilling completely is her need for independance. And by completely, I mean leaving. I told her that I would not put any limitations on her at home. Let her leave when she wants and return when she wants. In the past I've always been very inquisitive about such things. Not any more. And she does seem to respond to me better because of this. She stays late at the gym where she teaches after her class and bull**** with her girl friends. I want her to feel that she doesn't have to answer to me when she gets home late. But she Chooses to volunteer everything to me as to what she is doing, where she is going, which makes it easier on me.
<br>
<br>She is in search of who she is. She says that she never really asked herself before-"who am I?". And she's not sure that the person she really is, is one that wants to be married, period. Not just to me, but married at all. It seems as though she doesn't want to be dependant on anyone but herself. Mid-life crisis? Maybe. She says that these are feelings a 18 or 20 year old must go through when they want to leave home. She has always led a pretty sheltered life. It seems that only now she is "breaking out".
<br>All I want to do is assist her in doing so and pray that the person she turns out to be is like the one that chose to marry me 5 years ago.
<br>Take care,
<br>Greg
<br>

Greg,
<p>I think when your wife looks around and sees what is there she will see what she really has. It may take her time and I don't know if forcing her hand will make her see. You know how they say drug addicts and alcoholics have to hit rock bottem before they can get better. Well I think it may be that way with other problems as well. The problem there is that what we would consider rock bottom is not necessarily what they consider rock bottom. I have a brother who went to jail for drugs. I would have thought that would be rock bottom but when he got out just three short months and he was back in for posession. When I asked him why he said that things were not hopeless yet. I pray that your wife will see what is happening before she loses it all. I pray for you to have the courage to face what lies ahead.
<p>To All,
<p>I was listening to the radio today and the song "The Rose" came on. Made me think. How do I treat love? Is it a razor for me or is it the seed lieing under the snow? Just a thought. On the infidelity board under unmet needs, Bernd has a post that I think everyone should read. It was written for infidelity but has some wonderful thoughts about loving yourself before you can truly love your spouse. I highly recommend it.
<p>As always my thoughts and prayers are with all of us here. We will survive.
<p>Steph

Greg,
<p>My wife has said similar things to me in the last few months. She is definately seeking some level of independence that she feels she hasnt had. She says she feels like her decisions were all made for her, not necessarily by me, but by circumstances. She also says that she doesnt know if she really has what it takes to be married, or whether she really would want to be. I have seen it happen to friends and family in the past though. They move out on their own thinking their life will be a bed of roses compared to wat they had. They realize quickly thereafter that it is different, but worse. Some come back, some are too stubborn to admit that they were wrong, even when it is obvious to everyone anyway. During what we have been going through, my wife has asked, even told, that I move out and give her some space. However, I know my wife, and she is one of the stubborn ones. She stated early in this conflict, that when I moved out I was out for good. After she had to explain to our 6 year old that daddy wasnt going to be living with us, she would never tell him otherwise. You have to do what you think is right for your situation, and your wife.
<p>I hope that you do go the the infidelity board and reads the post mentioned above. It is moving and inspirational. All of us can reach that point someday.

Well, now that I've been going through this thing for a while I see a pattern. During the week things are mostly work, kids and preparation for the next day. That would be true if things were right between us but, since they aren't, it makes it feel like there's not much to look forward t oduring the week.
<br>When the weekend comes I am ready for some closeness because the excuse of tiredness from work is not there. I have tried to set the stage for us to go somewhere alone for three weeks, but it hasn't worked out. Her sister has now agreed to keep the kids in two weeks so that's something to look forward to.
<br>As I've said before my wife spends too much time on the computer. She's not having a cyber affair but does like to discuss things with her chat girlfriends. I try to be patient with this but when she can sit there for a long time while I vegetate it makes me very angry. She did this Friday night and I almost told her I was going to shut the computer down and fix it so she couldn't use it. She comes in later, knows I'm fuming, talks to me for a while and says everything will be ok.
<br>Saturday half the day goes by. The computer episode makes me so painfully conscious of the fact that I haven't gotten much in the way of hugs or kisses lately. I'm distant and angry. My wife asks is there anywhere I want to go. I ask what difference does it make since we can't be alone. But she says we can go to the park. Beggars can't be choosers so I go.
<br>As the kids play she does walk with me, hold my hand and acts like a wife. I'm soaking it in like a cactus in the desert. Making love was great that evening.
<br>Sunday night we're alone on the couch. She makes a visible effort not to spend too much time on the computer. She tells me she can see that I'm trying hard to change and do the right things. Yet there's a problem. I've known that she has come to the point that "I'm not sure I want to be married" and that "I don't feel the same way."
<br>But now that she sees me really trying to make a difference I think she realizes this will require some definite responses from her. She tells me last night that if she tries to work it out but still feels as if she doens't want to be married then she's not going to continue. This frustrates me no end.
<br>I tell her that I know that the way she feel isn't going to change overnight. But it seems as if she is holding on to this doubtfulness, almost like she is scared for things to work out.
<br>I said that I am well acquainted with selfishness, that I am the one that basically got this mariae in trouble by not taking my responsibilities seriously. Now I know I was terribly wrong. But I told her that for her to keep holding on to this forgone conclusion that she won't regain her feelings for me is self-defeating and selfish also. I told her that if she will just take small steps in response to my corrected behavior and give herself a chance that she can feel good about me. In fact I told her that since this will be essentially the first time we will both be making concerted efforts to do the right things, efforts given an urgency by recent marital instability and pain, that I beleive what we will have in the future will be even better and stronger than what we had in the past.
<br>She obvioulsy must think this is a posibility or she would be gone. She has admitted that she has been contaminated with harmful ideas from women on her job, and that she has contributed to this problem.
<br>I told her Saturday that if she was going to continue depriving me of affection that I was going to see about getting medication to enable me get through the days. I really don't want to do that. In fact I may have been saying it in desparation. She told me she did not want me to do anything like that.
<br>She knows what I want and need. She just doesn't seem to be capable of doing it right now. It angers me that she holds on to this thing, but I guess from her standpoint it's hard to release.
<br>We haven't been anywhere alone together in years. I told her that it is easier to hurt one another and grow apart when you are no longer on a personal level with each other. She agreed. I hope that spending more time alone together will help hasten a personal side to our relationship that has been pretty much non-existent. I hope that once we establish that personal closeness that it will be harder for her to conceive of leaving and easier for he to trust me and imagine herself being with me always.

Well, now that I've been going through this thing for a while I see a pattern. During the week things are mostly work, kids and preparation for the next day. That would be true if things were right between us but, since they aren't, it makes it feel like there's not much to look forward t oduring the week.
<br>When the weekend comes I am ready for some closeness because the excuse of tiredness from work is not there. I have tried to set the stage for us to go somewhere alone for three weeks, but it hasn't worked out. Her sister has now agreed to keep the kids in two weeks so that's something to look forward to.
<br>As I've said before my wife spends too much time on the computer. She's not having a cyber affair but does like to discuss things with her chat girlfriends. I try to be patient with this but when she can sit there for a long time while I vegetate it makes me very angry. She did this Friday night and I almost told her I was going to shut the computer down and fix it so she couldn't use it. She comes in later, knows I'm fuming, talks to me for a while and says everything will be ok.
<br>Saturday half the day goes by. The computer episode makes me so painfully conscious of the fact that I haven't gotten much in the way of hugs or kisses lately. I'm distant and angry. My wife asks is there anywhere I want to go. I ask what difference does it make since we can't be alone. But she says we can go to the park. Beggars can't be choosers so I go.
<br>As the kids play she does walk with me, hold my hand and acts like a wife. I'm soaking it in like a cactus in the desert. Making love was great that evening.
<br>Sunday night we're alone on the couch. She makes a visible effort not to spend too much time on the computer. She tells me she can see that I'm trying hard to change and do the right things. Yet there's a problem. I've known that she has come to the point that "I'm not sure I want to be married" and that "I don't feel the same way."
<br>But now that she sees me really trying to make a difference I think she realizes this will require some definite responses from her. She tells me last night that if she tries to work it out but still feels as if she doens't want to be married then she's not going to continue. This frustrates me no end.
<br>I tell her that I know that the way she feel isn't going to change overnight. But it seems as if she is holding on to this doubtfulness, almost like she is scared for things to work out.
<br>I said that I am well acquainted with selfishness, that I am the one that basically got this mariae in trouble by not taking my responsibilities seriously. Now I know I was terribly wrong. But I told her that for her to keep holding on to this forgone conclusion that she won't regain her feelings for me is self-defeating and selfish also. I told her that if she will just take small steps in response to my corrected behavior and give herself a chance that she can feel good about me. In fact I told her that since this will be essentially the first time we will both be making concerted efforts to do the right things, efforts given an urgency by recent marital instability and pain, that I beleive what we will have in the future will be even better and stronger than what we had in the past.
<br>She obvioulsy must think this is a posibility or she would be gone. She has admitted that she has been contaminated with harmful ideas from women on her job, and that she has contributed to this problem.
<br>I told her Saturday that if she was going to continue depriving me of affection that I was going to see about getting medication to enable me get through the days. I really don't want to do that. In fact I may have been saying it in desparation. She told me she did not want me to do anything like that.
<br>She knows what I want and need. She just doesn't seem to be capable of doing it right now. It angers me that she holds on to this thing, but I guess from her standpoint it's hard to release.
<br>We haven't been anywhere alone together in years. I told her that it is easier to hurt one another and grow apart when you are no longer on a personal level with each other. She agreed. I hope that spending more time alone together will help hasten a personal side to our relationship that has been pretty much non-existent. I hope that once we establish that personal closeness that it will be harder for her to conceive of leaving and easier for he to trust me and imagine herself being with me always.

Well, now that I've been going through this thing for a while I see a pattern. During the week things are mostly work, kids and preparation for the next day. That would be true if things were right between us but, since they aren't, it makes it feel like there's not much to look forward t oduring the week.
<br>When the weekend comes I am ready for some closeness because the excuse of tiredness from work is not there. I have tried to set the stage for us to go somewhere alone for three weeks, but it hasn't worked out. Her sister has now agreed to keep the kids in two weeks so that's something to look forward to.
<br>As I've said before my wife spends too much time on the computer. She's not having a cyber affair but does like to discuss things with her chat girlfriends. I try to be patient with this but when she can sit there for a long time while I vegetate it makes me very angry. She did this Friday night and I almost told her I was going to shut the computer down and fix it so she couldn't use it. She comes in later, knows I'm fuming, talks to me for a while and says everything will be ok.
<br>Saturday half the day goes by. The computer episode makes me so painfully conscious of the fact that I haven't gotten much in the way of hugs or kisses lately. I'm distant and angry. My wife asks is there anywhere I want to go. I ask what difference does it make since we can't be alone. But she says we can go to the park. Beggars can't be choosers so I go.
<br>As the kids play she does walk with me, hold my hand and acts like a wife. I'm soaking it in like a cactus in the desert. Making love was great that evening.
<br>Sunday night we're alone on the couch. She makes a visible effort not to spend too much time on the computer. She tells me she can see that I'm trying hard to change and do the right things. Yet there's a problem. I've known that she has come to the point that "I'm not sure I want to be married" and that "I don't feel the same way."
<br>But now that she sees me really trying to make a difference I think she realizes this will require some definite responses from her. She tells me last night that if she tries to work it out but still feels as if she doens't want to be married then she's not going to continue. This frustrates me no end.
<br>I tell her that I know that the way she feel isn't going to change overnight. But it seems as if she is holding on to this doubtfulness, almost like she is scared for things to work out.
<br>I said that I am well acquainted with selfishness, that I am the one that basically got this mariae in trouble by not taking my responsibilities seriously. Now I know I was terribly wrong. But I told her that for her to keep holding on to this forgone conclusion that she won't regain her feelings for me is self-defeating and selfish also. I told her that if she will just take small steps in response to my corrected behavior and give herself a chance that she can feel good about me. In fact I told her that since this will be essentially the first time we will both be making concerted efforts to do the right things, efforts given an urgency by recent marital instability and pain, that I beleive what we will have in the future will be even better and stronger than what we had in the past.
<br>She obvioulsy must think this is a posibility or she would be gone. She has admitted that she has been contaminated with harmful ideas from women on her job, and that she has contributed to this problem.
<br>I told her Saturday that if she was going to continue depriving me of affection that I was going to see about getting medication to enable me get through the days. I really don't want to do that. In fact I may have been saying it in desparation. She told me she did not want me to do anything like that.
<br>She knows what I want and need. She just doesn't seem to be capable of doing it right now. It angers me that she holds on to this thing, but I guess from her standpoint it's hard to release.
<br>We haven't been anywhere alone together in years. I told her that it is easier to hurt one another and grow apart when you are no longer on a personal level with each other. She agreed. I hope that spending more time alone together will help hasten a personal side to our relationship that has been pretty much non-existent. I hope that once we establish that personal closeness that it will be harder for her to conceive of leaving and easier for he to trust me and imagine herself being with me always.

My apologies for my post appearing three times. My screen was frozen and I guess every time I clicked to see if it would respond I was posting anew.

Bruce,
<br>My wife also had a similar conversation with me this weekend. She has been depressed all week (acutally for 2 months). Friday she rented the movie "Fly away home". She told my kids to pay attention to the beginning where they explain that the mom left the family (boy, did that hurt).
<br>Saturday we ran into the OG's family. This pushed her down even further. Sunday, she rented "Great Expectations". Then, at dinner, she actually started to cry. Tears were falling into her food. With my kids there, I told her to leave the table.
<br>Later, when I got upstairs, she said she did not know if she could ever make me happy. She said she sees pain all the time in my face and cant live with it. Then she asked me "WHAT DO WE DO NOW?".
<br>This prompted a half hour talk about her/me and us. She told me that until May, she had a drinking problem for about a year. This was during her YELLING period, where she yelled about everything. She does not know what happiness is. My feeling is that she is afraid to find it with me. She told me she has lacked passion for years, and that is why she reads so many romance novels. She hopes to find passion with them. She uses the word passion like a 16 year old girl. She wants fireworks and earthquakes during sex. It's not enough to love the other person.
<br>Going back to what Steph and GBM have stated about fulfilling needs. She told me that she has felt "used" for the past few years. She was a housecleaner, gardener, driver, cook, etc. But not a wife. The few things she WOULD have asked me to do, she never did. She felt that I should know what to do. No communication between us.
<br>On the positive side. We did have that half hour talk and communicated. We both agreed that this was necessary to get where we would like to be. Later, I gave her a great massage. Followed by some intimacy.
<br>I woke up at 3. She was nestled in my arms and legs. I didn't want to move for fear she might move away. So, I stayed up and caressed her hair until the alarm went off. I'm pretty tired now. But, it was worth it.
<br>Now that I have vented, here is my knowlege gained from this weekend. She is more scared of what is happening than I am. Whereas, I know what makes me happy, and that I will be happy no matter what. She does not know what she needs or wants. She is confused about what she thinks can maker her happy. I can see that she enjoys being held by me, but can't ask to be held.
<br>It's a long road. I now think that I may last longer than she.
<br>On another note. Has anyone had discussions with their kids that Mom and Dad are having problems? My kids are 13 and 10. If my wifes depression keeps showing through, we will have to tell them (we are both reluctant to, yet). What did you say? How did they take it? Did they ask questions?
<br>I'd appreciate any advice. Thanks

We all have such similiar problems! Does anyone know of any relationships that have been saved (restored)? I feel like the hope of a restored love is being sucked out of me.
<br>I feel my wife is trying to push me away! However, every so often - she says something that gives me a little hope.
<p>At this point, I think I convinced her to stay and try for two reason - !. college would difficult if she left and for the kids sake. My hope is - therapy will help her discover herself and she'll realize her love for me. Right now, she doesn't love me! It is killing me inside. She feels the therapy is to find out why she feels this way - she doesn't think it is to make her change her feelings. Like you said Bruce - my wife acts as though a divorce is a forgone conclusion. Can therapy work if she has this already engrained in her head? Matt, my wife feels like she doesn't want to be a married person. Because she feels that way - is that why she thinks she doesn't love me? Is it possible her love can return when she doubts it?
<p>At times - I want to say just go - but I know if she left she would take the kids and it would be horrible for them. My wife really has no where to go - but her mothers. But how long can I live with a woman - if it is for other reasons than love. I will not leave - at times I feel she is pushing me - or trying to make me mad enough to leave - so she can feel less guilty about it.
<br>Greg, I feel the same - If there were no kids - I think I would have said leave already. However, I want as much stability for my kids as possible. I just find it so hard to live in the same house with her -knowing she doesn't love me - do I just quit trying to show my love? Should I just back off completely?
<p>How do I survive this?
<p>Sombody, had mentioned maybe the needs of your wife weren't been met. In my case, my wife just feels like she doesn't want to be married to anyone. She wants independence. How do I support this need? Is there anyway to convince her she can have independence and still be married?
<br>Ken

Bill,
<br>Kids are more perceptive than you think. My kids are 3,6, and 8. The eight old is quite aware of the problems going on. We talk with him more - he felt his mommy did not want to be around him. I had to let him know it was their fault mommy wasn't happy. We try not to get into to many specifics - however they ask a lot of questions. They wanted to know if we were going to get divorced etc. My wife told them no matter what happened we always will love them!
<p>This morning my wife left for exercise - my 8 year old climbed into bed with me. He asked me if mommy was happy yet? I told him she was a little better. He grabbed my hand and told me not to cry - then he said he loved me. It makes me cry just typing this.
<p>I think you should say something - Come up with the right words is a challenge. However, let them know if they ever have any questions - they can ask them. Good luck!

Well, let me sound a hopeful note. When you close to the bottom it doesn't take much.
<br>I'm having a bad day at work because I'm thinking too much about my wife. I don't want to call her for fear I'll annoy her, yet I need something.
<br>This morning I left Dr. Harley's book, Give and Take, on the tv for her. I asked her to take it with her and read it, but didn't really expect her to. I called her at work. She said she took the book with her and had actually read some. She said that so far it was interesting.
<br>I was pleased. I told her that the book had helped me see the dynamics behind a lot of my feelings and behavior and that it would do the same for her. But I didn't want to press. I'll let the book speak for itself.
<br>Here's to hope.

Ken,
<br>My son (10) knows something is not right. He constantly asks about how mom treats him. My daughter (13) seems to not notice (teens are sort of in their own world).
<br>However, it has gotten better over the past few weeks. I was hoping to avoid this for a while (maybe forever), since my wife has decided to try and work things out. But, if she can not control herself around the kids, we will have to sit them down. The problem there is that my wife may not be able to control herself then, either.
<br>Thanks.

It's amazing to me as I read these postings at how many of us are going through the same situations. Many of you are talking about wives who no longer are in love with their husbands. Well I am one of these wives. It wasn't until I started to get intimate feelings towards a best friend of mine, that I realized - wait a minute these are feelings I should have towards my husband and not a friend! I have been living for the past 5 years in a marriage that basically has no intimacy; I mean none. I rarely get the urge to even give him a hug anymore. I feel no resentment towards him and we very rarely fight. We have just become great roomates. Not until these feelings came up for this other man have I realized what is missing. I was ready to leave 2 weeks ago, but I am still here and things are actually looking really good. I have been carrying around resentment towards him for things that he had done many years ago when he was a very controlling and quick tempered person. I got tired of the fighting and became indifferent towards him. We have never been very good at communicating, and this is a big problem. We rarely sit down and have heart to hearts. So last week I decided to write him a letter expressing ALL my feelings. I told him that what he read would be hard to take, but he had to hear it. I told him that I still loved him but was no longer in love with him. He was hurt and I think surprised by what he read, because I have never let on any of these feelings to him, and have become a good actress. I hate conflit and like to keep the peace. But the point is that we are talking (VERY IMPORTANT), and for the sake of our 6 month old son we are going to try to work things out. We are taking it day by day, and trying to get back to the basics of why we fell in love. But I have actually felt closer to him now that all our feelings are out in the open than I have in years. I found the marriage builders site very useful and almost printed out the whole thing. I think you should print out the
<br>"Negotiating in the Three States of Marriage" and read it with your wives. We are stuck in the withdrawl stage, where we don't cause any conflict but continue living with each other even though we we are stuck in this rut. Anyhow, don't give up yet guys, talk to your wives, get things out on the table, and introduce them to this site. It has really helped me not to walk away and give it another shot!

Nat, thanks for the hopeful message. It helps. But it seems some people have a very high tolerance level. You said you've been living this way for 5 years, and that you harbored resentment for your husband's temper and controlling ways.
<br>My wife does have resentment, I know that. When I look back I know that I was overly critical at times, not of her but of things she liked and I didn't, opinions and so on. I have never hit her though recently, before I learned to curb the anger outbursts over her cold behavior, she feared I might because I became so angry. But I wouldn't have.
<br>Now after all this you are getting things together. Me, I've never wanted any woman except my wife. And even though I think she has very legitimate reason to have resentment against me the situation is hardly incorigible. I came from a broken home and the thought of it happening to me is enough to make me sick.
<br>Ressentment in a woman must be a very hardy thing. How, when I am willing to work out things to my wife's satisfaction, can she consider simply walking out on me and two boys? I know that she feels that her life has been somewhat wasted, that she has missed out on some things.
<br>But I did not intentionally do this. And I am fully willing that we work to rebuild things according to a lifestyle that would include all the things she said was missing. She has even told me that there were qualities I had that she thinks she would have a hard time finding in another man. For example she says I've always been flexible and very loving, never really giving her any problems with things she wants to do.
<br>Yet she seems ready to just up and leave. I can't comprehend that. Not without giving it a fair shot. But then I guess I just don't know what these things mean to a woman.

To All,
<p>I thought I would share with you some of my success. Last wednesday was a bad day. It's what I call a melt down day when I've had enough and I'm completely drained. That night I had made a decision that if things didn't start looking up that I was gone. Well I've already told you how thursday morning my H got the kids all ready for the day and how it made my day go so much better. I was really careful to make sure he knew how much it meant to me. Well friday he did the same. That night we had a long talk about how things have been the last six years and how they need to be in order for us to work. For the first time ever he listened and did not get mad or try to blame me or circumstance for the problems. Saturday was the best day we have had in six years. Amazingly enough we were not alone. We spent it with our kids and when they napped we had our time alone. I have been hesitant to put my full heart into this because of a fear of being hurt or let down again. I was expecting him to make the moves because I was done moving. What I realized was when I thought I was giving it my all I was really holding back out of fear of hurt or rejection. This weekend I promised to give it my all and it ended up being a great weekend. By me loosening up he was able to come out more and things really began to take shape. I can honestly say that I think things are going to work out. I know we still have alot to do but I can see that now we are both willing to do it.
<p>Bruce,
<p>Is there anyway you and your wife could take a night in the middle of the week so as to not lose what you get on the weekends? I know it may be hard to do but worth a try. I know how you feel about the computer. It was my worst enemy also but we both agreed to a time limit when it is just for entertainment and this has seemed to really help out. I feel for your situation but it does seem in your last post that she is trying and hasn't totally given up. My prayers are with you.
<p>Bill,
<p>HUGS to you. I know how you are feeling and wish I had the answers for you. I honestly think when your wife finds herself and sees that she can be happy and can make others happy she will be grateful to you for sticking by her side. She will love you for it. I know its hard. Keep yourself up and keep your kids up the best you can. As far as telling them I can't help you there. My kids are only 5, 3, and 6 mo. All I had to tell them was that daddy was tired and busy. I would definitly tell them though. You say your 13 yr old doesn't seem to notice but I would bet she does and as teenagers do, she is keeping it all inside. My parents kept my brothers problems from us and we would have been better knowing. I think it shows a form of trust when you let them in on family problems. I do think that the information should be tailored to their age. Don't tell them more than they need to know. I would tell them the problem and then answer the questions they have. Make sure they know that they can ask questions whenever they would like. I have one question for you. Has your wife considered any medication yet? I know earlier she wouldn't but it seems to me she really needs some. My prayers are with you as always.
<p>Ken,
<p>I think it is very possible for your wife to gain her love for you back. She is trying to find herself. For me I was always doing what I did for someone else. I was my fathers daughter. I was my husbands wife. But who was the real me. There was a time that I thought gaining independence would help me find me. Fortunately (if one can think that)my H was in his depression and I couldn't leave him during that. In the process of trying to deal with my H I learned who I was and what strengths I had to offer to my kids, my H, and the world. Be stong Ken. Take care of yourself and your kids. Be there for your wife and be as understanding as you can. But speak up for your needs. Don't let your needs falls by the wayside because if she finds herself without haveing to meet your needs then it will be harder to add you in later. You see I found myself without my H and now need to let him back into my life. She can have independence and still be married but only she can find the way to balance it. I wish you luck and my prayers are with you.
<p>I wish you all the love God has to offer you. Find your strength and hold to it. Keep your head held high for you are doing your best and that is all anyone can ask of you. My prayers are with you all.
<p>Steph
<br>

Steph, thanks so much for your words. And I want you to know that I am genuinely happy for you and your husband. I include the people of this forum in my prayers. I hope that your situation continues to improve and that you will tell us about it. I of course will continue to work on mine.

Bruce,
<br>Our situations seem so similar, but I'm sure they are quite different. Let me tell you what I have been feeling, maybe it's quite different from your wife's, but maybe it will help. It has been an extremely hard past 3 weeks. The first was the worst. This is when I hit the wall and faced the reality that my feelings towards my husband had changed. I wasn't able to eat, I would cry every day and couldn't deal with the smallest of things. It was very scarry. It's a very strange feeling. He has changed so much and is really a great husband and father, but when you feel nothing inside it's one of the hardest things to deal with. I told myself over and over that I must be crazy. I am loved deeply by my husband, he would give the moon and the stars if he could, we are very financially secure, I have a beautiful son with him, who he adores; yet I'm miserable. I go to bed at night wondering what it would be like to want to roll over and be with him - but I feel nothing. Then I think of walking out the door and wondering where would we go? How do you start over? Will it eventually end like this again? I don't have any answers yet but I just realized that for my son's sake, since my husband and I do get along that we would try. But realize that this is the hardest thing emotionally that I have ever been through. And I thank God that my husband is a patient man. It sounds like you are this way as well. I don't know what happened to my feelings, I never thought you could just fall out of love with someone. This sounds corny, but it's how I explained things to my husband. I told him that when we first met I was like one of those cheese strings (don't laugh!), and every time he got angry and hurt me deeply emotionally I would loose a strand. But with never resolving the situation and just letting it heal with time, those wounds were never mended. Now I feel like I am this one final fragile strand and have nothing let to keep me standing. I don't know if we can get those parts back together, but I guess
<br>you can only try. Tell your wife to write a post, I would love to talk to her, maybe between the two of us we can sort out some of our very confused feelings. Got to go; take care.