I don't understand the personality change in them either.<P>How can a man go from saying one month "he will do anything to save our marriage as long as I don't leave him"...to "I'm not in love with you anymore"...the next month.<P>They are completely irrational. It doesn't make sense. Especially in your case.<P>

Dear Nellie -- It will get better!!!<P>I struggle with many of the same things you have struggled with. Who is this man? Was he there all along and I was just completely deceived? Or did he really change overnight? <P>One of these days you will turn a corner, mentally and emotionally, and you will start to heal. There's no way to rush it, however. It will happen when you are ready. And then things will slowly get better. <P>I thought I would love my H forever. I would have taken him back in an instant. But when the love bank runs dry, its DRY. Yes, it still hurts. And I miss him so very, very much. But I miss the man I thought I knew. I no longer want the man that now inhabits his body. <P>I grieve for my marriage and my family, but I don't want him back. I can no longer imagine being happy with him. <P>I'm rediscovering myself in so many ways. I've been so caught up in being wife/mother that I forgot about me. I'm enjoying work, making new friends, reconnecting with church, and mostly enjoying my children very much. <P>It will get better!!!! I'm not pretending! I remember every tear I shed over the past 15 months, and it really, really is better!

Nellie,<P>Your life will never be the one you had worked at for so long and planned so realistically and it is when one realizes that this can no longer be due to the actions of the one who we loved with all our heart, that it all seems so hopeless.<P>I was taught many things, but the one that helped me the most (so far) was the fact that I should not focus all my energy on who my H had become (and I know we all want to know the hows and whys of all this) but focus on how I could get through this as best I could for my children and myself.I do continue to try to understand, but the difference for me is that I am no longer obsessed and for me that makes life better.<P>I had to accept that this is who he is now and deal with this in a way that made sense for me. My values have not changed. I am still the same mother to my 4 children, but I have learnt how to focus on the postives about me and not dwell on the negatives of my situation, for if I did, I would be consumed by my anger at H...and I lost too much weight as it is and cannot afford to lose any more!<P>It is so hard to have all the feelings for a partner who shared a life's vision of shared values and family negated not only by infidelity, but a metamorphisis of character.<P>Yes it is hard, but the acceptance of that is who is, with all of his anger indirectly directed at me. My H uses threats through the lawyer...hoping I will bite as I did in the past and has not only torn the family unit vis a vis the children apart, he has also manipulated the children in a very damaging and unforgivable manner. Will this get better? Not for a long time, but this type of behaviour is what I now expect from him (not what he will exactly do, but I know that he will continue in this pattern of behaviour so knowing this means I will be surprised and hurt by what he does, not that he does it) and knowing the expected pattern somehow makes it better in that i have learnt not to be so wounded and analytical about each event.<P>I hope you can gain some insight into my ramblings on what "better" means.<P>It does not mean life is better now that had this all not happened.<P>It does not mean that it will ever be better to be a single parent.<P>It does not mean it is better to be alone.<P>It does not mean that it is better financially<P>What better means to me is that I am living a life with hope for tomorrow. what ever tomorrow brings.<P>Better for me means I am no longer in the trough of the roller coaster.<P>I have been separated since March 99. Divorce filed July 99 and have only got to this more settled place emotionally in the last 2 months. You lasted in plan A much longer than most. I give you so much credit, but now you need time to mourn the what was and this takes many months before you can negotiate the next step of this treacherous journey.<P>I still do think about it each and every day, but understanding that it is what my H lost by tearing this family apart makes me more sad than angry more times than not, and it is this that helps me.<P>

sorry..double post<p>[This message has been edited by willbok99 (edited March 31, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>One of two things happened. Either I wasted 25 years living with someone who hated me while pretending that he loved me, or his personality changed virtually overnight. Either one of those alternatives has completed destroyed everything I ever believed. To use the trip to France analogy, it is more like landing in Bosnia instead.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>First, I'd guess that he changed, not that you couldn't see the "real" him at the time. <P>I fully appreciate the "landing in Bosnia" analogy. After my daughter's death, I felt like I had been literally picked up out of my life, and deposited into a totally hellish life instead. After a while I realized that I needed to quit viewing it that way for the sake of my son. Realizing it and being able to do it are different things though...it took a while to be able to really appreciate that my life could still be good, albeit quite different...<P>Hang in there--<BR>Kathi<P>

teddy bear,<P>When he said he wanted a divorce, he said he had been feeling that way for "weeks, maybe months". And for that he was willing to throw away a relationship of 24 years and a family of 7. Recently, however, he claimed our "problems" had been present for decades.<P>I was reading on another website about a betrayed woman who very much wanted her H back, until she met someone else. Within a matter of days, she completely changed her mind - now she apparently wants a divorce ASAP. It is hard to believe these relationships take over so fast. Unattached people don't seem to fall in love that fast. <P>Animac,<P>I am not sure I understand the concept of the love bank running dry. I don't love my H any less than I did the day he left. I can imagine being happy with my H, but even if I couldn't, it is hard to imagine that I could possibly be more unhappy than I am now. <P>willbok,<P>I, too, am more sad than angry - but the sadness feels much much worse than anger. <P>Kathi,<P>Of course the death of a child is far worse than betrayal. From what I have seen of my sister's life since the murder of her son two years ago, there is no evidence that she thinks life will ever be good. Maybe bearable, but not good.<P>Life wasn't all that great even before he left. We had no hope of ever getting ahead financially, and little hope of ever finding a place to live that we didn't detest that we could afford. Little did I know that it would only get worse - first with my nephew's murder, and then my H's betrayal and desertion.

From Frank Pittman's book "Private Lies"...<P>Pittman is horrified by the statistic that 5 years after the divorce, in only 10% of the cases do both spouses agree it was the right decision.<BR>

Cuckold,<P>Well I know that I am never going to think it was the right decision. It makes me so angry that people pretend that divorce is usually a mutual decision. One counselor we went to actually had the nerve to suggest that we should tell the kids that we were going to divorce because "we" weren't happy. <P>I am not sure I belong on this part of the forum, because it seems like most of the people here have given up, no longer love their spouses and have decided that they want to be divorced.<P>I guess I don't believe in many of the MB principles. I don't believe that love, whether between spouses or between parents and children, is conditional. I don't believe in the love bank concept - certainly if it were true, mine should be empty by now. I will love my H for the rest of my life. Of course I am angry at him, but anger is not incompatible with love. I don't believe that most betrayers betray because their "emotional needs" are not met. I think that is way too simplistic. I think Frank Pittman is much closer to the mark when he says that betrayers betray because of issues from their own childhood. He is of the opinion that for men, it is due to problems in their relationship with their fathers, but I suspect it is sometimes more complicated that that. He said that betrayal is often due to the fact that it is not that their wives do not understand them; their wives understand them too well. For whatever reason they feel that they have failed, they think, sometimes correctly, that their wives agree, and they look for someone who makes them feel better about themselves. Even if the wife appears to admire the H, he does not necessarily believe it is real, because he knows that she knows of his failures, and therefore he doubts that she could really be admiring him. <P>I think my H is overwhelmed by the fear of rejection. His father has always obviously preferred his brother. His first wife deserted him after only two months - and he waited many months before he filed. Only rarely have I seen him initiate affection or real conversations with the children. He almost never reaches out to hug them, yet he seems very happy when they are affectionate to him.

Hi Nellie,<P>Please do not take offense to my reply. I've read each and everyone of these replies to you. I don't believe that anyone responding to you is "pretending" that it gets better. Nor do I believe that all the folks here "just gave up". If you recall all my posts over the past year, I too was horrified, remained angry, bitter, and refused to accept my husbands infidelity. There will come a time when you will have to accept that no matter what Nellie wants, it won't necessarily be...<P>For all the times that I begged, pleaded, wanted, cried, and virtually made myself sick over wanting my husband back, now I am beginning to realize that it really is what's better for my family. The fighting has ceased. I no longer have the feeling that I'm "begging" my husband to want me, be with me, love me. Talk about no dignity or self esteem! It was pretty low.<P>It is far better to have an ex-spouse that you are able to communicate with on a fairly civil basis, than to be married to a current spouse that has no love, respect, nor desire to be with you.<P>Just my thoughts.

Tired Lady,<P>I am not offended, but I am not sure that you can generalize on the basis of your experiences. Of course I want him to feel love, respect and a desire to be with me. Prior to the affair, if he didn't feel this way, he hid it well. We argued occasionally, but certainly a lot less than many couples I know. This is in no way better than before the affair. Not to mention that it is far, far worse for the kids.<P>And then there is the fact that he is not willing to communicate with me, period - civilly or otherwise. If he needs to communicate anything that isn't purely logistical, he either has his lawyer send me a letter (even when it is child related, and has nothing to do with divorce) or he goes ahead and does whatever he wants (or she tells him to) and then emails me. Actually, I am reasonably certain that she at least edits, if not writes, some of his emails, since sometimes the writing style isn't his. I am sick and tired of the OW's involvement in the communication my H and I have about our kids. The other night he got all concerned because he was running 15 minutes late because I wanted to talk to him about the results of some medical tests one of our kids had.

Actually Nellie, your post gives new meaning to "fake it til you make it" and that's what I'm doing. Am I really happy? Somedays I think I am, some days not. Will I get better in time...you bet. We all will. Just have to hang in there. What we all had was probably "comfortable" and who wants to give up comfort. What we can and will all gain in time is peace within ourselves in knowing it was NOT us. I will never hold myself accountable for my H's indescretions and his affair after 29 years of a "perfect" marriage. Was I asleep? Oh God, am I still sleeping in this horrid nightmare??? Well the answer is no and I know it's up to me to make my own dreams come true. We can't click our heels anymore and say "there's no place like home" because our homes have been broken, our hearts have been broken and this is reality. I agree, it bites, but it does not have to end up bittersweet. It's up to us.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Of course the death of a child is far worse than betrayal. From what I have seen of my sister's life since the murder of her son two years ago, there is no evidence that she thinks life will ever be good. Maybe bearable, but not good.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Nellie, my intention was never to say that one situation is worse than another...it's not a competition. Only to let you know that I have some basis for my faith that your life can eventually become quite a bit more than bearable. {Your sister's also, for that matter...you are both in my prayers tonight}.<P>Kathi<P> <P>

Bev,<P>I have tried to fake it - fake being functional, fake continuing on with my life for the kids, taking them places, etc. I went back to work, keep busy - and I have come to the conclusion that it makes no difference whatsoever. I am just as miserable as the day he left, maybe more so, because now I know that he wants little to do with the kids either. At least at first I thought that he would still continue to be a father to them.<P>I initially almost believed it when people said things would get better. But they were wrong. Yes, I can fake it, but it is pointless. <P>Kathi,<P>I didn't mean to imply that I thought it was some kind of competition. I am just well aware that things could be worse, and I am grateful for my children. <P><BR>I was reading a mailing list that I am on where someone casually mentioned that she and her husband divorced because they had disagreements and couldn't live together. Where do these people come from? Are they all lying to everyone, including themselves? Have you ever actually met someone with kids who divorced for reasons other than infidelity or abuse? I suppose you could say that my H and I disagreed - we disagree about whether it is ok for him to live with another woman.

I know Nellie, cause I try to fake it to many people too. But the one person we can not deceive or lie to is ourselves.<P>But you know what...we have to do it anyway, because sooner or later we will believe in ourselves because we are good people.<P>Reality is that bad and unfortunate things also happen to good people. It happened to us. I don't like it, but I can't control it right now. I hope to be able to control it in the future because I know I am worth it. I hope you realize your worth and if you don't right now, it's okay, because the rest of us do and are at your side.

Nellie,<P>Don't you want to feel loved, respected, desired by your husband? Who cares what he wants! His needs had nothing to do with the statement I made. It's all about what Nellie's needs are.<P>Isn't it obvious from his actions that he could care less about you? From what you say, he has even disregarded his own children's feelings! What the heck is it about this so called "man" that makes him attractive to you? Your long marital history? Seems to me like he destroyed that and continues to destroy whatever memories you still have, good or bad. <P>Okay, I admit, I'm in a man basher mode right now, but gosh, he seems very undeserving of the wonderful woman, wife and mother you seem to be. You won't be able to move on and be a completely happy, whole Nellie, until you let go of this man who makes you so miserable.<P>Let the OW have him! He's her problem now.

Bev,<BR>Thanks for the support. The misery that I am feeling is not so much about feeling worthless - I know that I am worth something to my kids - but more about feeling hopeless. For at least a year before my H left, it was becoming more and more obvious that it was a matter of "another day older and deeper in debt" - but at least I had an intact family. Now, my hopes and goals for my family are destroyed, and financially the situation is much worse as well. <P>Tired Lady,<BR>No, what is obvious to me is not that he doesn't care about me or the kids, but that he has lost all ability to feel any emotion except anger and fear. I suspect deep down he is terrified - perhaps terrified that he has destroyed his life, that his kids will stop loving him, that the OW will reject him. I think he may feel that his life is out of control, and he is desparately trying to hold onto what little control he does have. He has done many things that are completely illogical from any perspective. I am not at all sure that in his current mental state he is even capable of making a conscious decision to hurt me. <p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited April 02, 2000).]

Nellie,<P>I agree, it may never get better, just different.<P>We will always love our ex's deep down. Some of us go on to new love, but we still carry that pain with us forever.<P>I relate to all you say. Everything I believed in was shattered. Its basically losing your innocense and losing your security.<P>I know your pain, I follow your story, I just have been lurking lately. <P>I wish you the best. Maybe the divorce, will bring a little more closure on it in the end.<P>Prayers, and hugs, Dana<BR>

I am quite sure the pain will never diminish. I don't think there will ever be closure, because I will never know why.

Nellie,<BR> Not much else to tell you.Just my unvaluable opinion!No,I don't think your H was"faking it"for 25 years,just like I don't believe my W was"acting"for 15 years.I don't believe it,I refuse to believe it.Number one,everyone here has gotten the"I haven't loved you for years"speech.Number two,it's just how they perceive things now,due to an affair,or a MLC.Number three,it is totally beyond my comprehension that anyone can act or fake it for years and years.And if they can,they need a lot more professional help than I do understanding it.<P> Closure may come in time,perhaps a lot of time.We will probably never know"why"they did what they did.They may never know why.I know it's driving you crazy(like it has me),but you're going to blow a gasket if you keep it up!You're looking for an answer that there may not be a rational(the keyword here is"rational")answer to.<BR> <BR> My only hope is,given enough time,we will reach a point where we don't care anymore about the"WHY".We will continue on with our life,knowing that there are some things we will just never understand(like how a show like"The Simpsons" has stayed on the air for so long!) --Murph

Murph,<P>Unfortunately, the OW has apparently convinced my H that our relationship has been untenable for decades. It makes little sense that we supposedly had problems so severe that they could not have been worked out had we faced them early on, but my H managed to ignore them for at least 20 years, but that is his theory. He must have been very talented.