Bruce,
<br>Great to see things are going well. Just dont get big expectations, her emotions will run hot and cold just like yours. Let her make all the moves. DONT PUSH! let it happen. Good luck :-)
<br>Ken

Bill,
<br>Believe me I'm very conscious of the nature of this roller coaster. I'm taking it all with caution. But when you're as down as I have been you'll take just about anything, even if you know it may dissolve tomorrow because feeling good for an hour is better than nothing.
<br>Plus I am finding that this roller coaster effect, while very rough at first, is making me get to a point to where I'm not being surprised as easily. So...I continue to tread carefully.

Ken,
<br>Your point is well taken. I am going to begin making sure I have things to keep me busy. I am not going to get in her way.

Bruce,
<br>I can't tell you how how much I feel for you and your situation! I think Kens has given you some good advice - take it slow and steady and try not to push to hard! However, that is a hard thing to do! I felt the exact same way you did regarding listening to my wife! When our crisis was at its worse - we would be discussing things and I felt like nothing I said mattered to her! She would say things to me and I would get all emotional and the conversation usually deteriorated from there. I soon learned, or came to peace with the fact I might lose my wife. I realized if she wanted to end it I couldn't do anything about it! All I could do, was stick by her, listen to her, support her, show her I loved her etc. This realization allowed me to remain calm when we had one our discussions. I think it is so important to demonstrate this quality. By doing so, your wife can feel more open in discussing her most inner feelings. She won't feel she has to hide them! She will know she can say anything to you and you will listen objectively. It sounds like you have taken the first step.
<p>I am so happy for you! I agree with you -- enjoy the moment! You never can be sure when things will turn for the worse. One of the things I learned is - live in the present! Love in the past is over --- love in the future is hope --- Loving now is the goal! We must cherish every moment we have with our loved ones- we never know what the future will bring!
<p>I am happy to report - my wife and I are doing well. We seem to have turned the proverbial corner! I am being reserved, yet optimistic about our situation. At this point, I feel great! My wife has told me she loves me - numerous times! Better than that, I know she sees how much I love her. Not by my words, but by my actions! It is very strange how a week and a half ago, I thought we were in serious trouble- now things are much better!
<p>
<br> Everyone, please do not give up hope! I am living proof a change can take place! Please keep me in your good thoughts - for continued success! You are always in my thoughts and prayers! I appreciate all of you very much!!
<p>Ken W.

Bruce and Ken,
<br>Guys, through all the last few posts we have had, mostly all positive, I do not see that any of us have heard the words that this thread is about. I think that my wife has not yet moved toward that. And seeing the way things are going, it may be a while, if at all. I do get the "I Love You too" after I tell her. But, I can tell by her actions is not the love I am looking for.
<br>Earlier in the thread, several posts discussed LOVE and affairs. How can one love someone and still hurt them (affair on not). Perhaps they internalize that they MUST not love this person, because they hurt them. I know, for a while, my wife actually tried to convince me to go find someone who will make me happy. That I deserve it.
<br>It still surfaces every so often, and is very difficult to hear.
<br>Even though my therapist says that its more important to have open conversation, than "I Love You's" or intimicey, I still want/need the other two desperately.
<br>I wish you all well on your daily ride.

Bill, I have wondered exactly the same thing about the idea that a spouse/SO may actually simply convince themselves they do not love you anymore because of an affair or other way in which they have hurt you. It's almost as if my H has done this - he thinks he is fixing things by leaving me instead of trying to work things out with me.
<p>Here's what I am beginning to think: Affairs damage self-esteem, as Glenn said in another thread somewhere. While you might think they build it, it is a false elevation and it must cause extreme guilt in spouses who truly care about us - in order to deal with the unpleasant feeling of guilt, they bury their love for us so deeply in their hearts they cannot find it. Add to that the OW/OM probably reinforcing the belief that we, the wronged spouses, must be inadequate in some way (and generally we are not meeting some need/needs of our spouses) and a cheating spouse could very easily convince him/herself that he/she does not love us anymore. Even if the spouse is *not* cheating, but is unhappy for other reasons: job, no job, depression, grief from personal losses, etc., they could easily blame the unhappiness on us and gradually begin to believe they do not love us because we don't ease that unhappiness (forgetting that we don't generally even *know* what the unhappiness is about because they haven't communicated anything to us!).
<p>I can't explain why I am so certain that there is still love for me deep in his heart, I just am - I only hope I can be patient and help him to bring it back.

Bruce and Bill,
<br> I sometimes feel maybe this board is not for me because I'v been seperated for so long but hey I still love her and my children with all my heart. Bruce I know what it means to scared and broken hearted for a long time. I know that you have no control over someones actions or thoughts so I gave up trying a few months ago and thats what got us talking again. My wife's thoughts change so much in just a day or an hour and I feel she's confused in fact I know it. Since my buying her out of the house and her moving to an apartment I have noticed that she seems very uncomfortable when she comes over and is allways in a rush to get out. She's much more comfortable when I'm at her apartment but I havent a clue why. Something else that bothers me is that she asked for the divorce but wanted me to file so I did in the beginning of September and right before she moved out a letter to me from my lawer came in the mail and she just had to open it, I wonder why? I have given her everything she ever asked for even the divorce. Her problem was she never told me when she was hurt so I never knew, anyway just felt like telling a little more about my situation. Hey Bruce I pray for acceptance, knoledge of his will and the power to carry that out. Thats what gets me thru the days weeks and months. God Bless you all I hope none of you get to the point that I'm at, its been a long struggle. Ken

Bruce----I'm so glad you are having a better time. I am also cautious of this ride and I know the detours and dips it can take. It'd be neat to know if our involvement on this board has somehow prompted our relationships to soar. Best wishes.

Terri,
<br>I wonder the same thing. Although I know that my marriage was far from the best. We hardly communicated. At least on the level we needed to. But, I still want to believe that my wife still loves me under all of her unhappiness, bitterness, etc. I don't (wont) beleive that you fall out of love with someone because of these. I would like to believe that most people would try to get comfort and/or help from a loved one.
<br>I want to believe that it is still there. Perhaps small and buried deep. I just hope that it can be found.

Terri and Bill,
<br>Fronm what I understand when couples attend things like Marriage Encounter or Retrouvaille it really helps tear down emotional barriers and put reunite hearts. These functions (I checked) have a very high percentage rate in saving relationships that would have gone under. This tells me that the love is there, it just needs to be revived like a flame that has burned so low it is now just embers.
<br>I believe that your mates have love for you. Somehow they need to be influenced by the catalyst that will bring it out. And that's the whole trick isn't it. As we all know, it ain't easy. But, as KenW has found out, it can happen.
<br>Hang in there, both of you.

GBM,
<br>This board has helped me if in no other way than a place to vent. But I can also say that seeing the sameness of the pain in all the varying situations made me know that I was not some uniquely stupid idiot that screwed up in a way no one else hardly does. I saw that I fell into a very common mistake. While that didn't lessen the pain it did take a certain edge out of it, because I think it would feel much worse to know that very few people did the dumb things I did.
<br>Also, I have to say that there is some good advice to be found here as well as encouragment. So, yes, I'd say this board has helped me.

KenW,
<br>Boy are you right about discussions. I know that what I would say to my wife was reasonable. But when she would say something out of all proprtion to what we were talking about I'd get emotional and really wrought up. It's pretty much lost after that. The feeling of defeat and helplessness during that time is so debilitating.
<br>But I am taking a different course now. I've already planned to do some things I've procrastinated on for years, and I'm going to be taking the boys fishing and shooting off model rockets and things a lot more.
<br>Hopefully it won't be all that long before I can say, like you, that we've turned a corner. If my wife keeps showing the spirit she showed yesterday I don't think it will take a very long time. But I won't bank on that.

To all,
<br>This board has helped me a lot too. Although my wife does not approve or understand, Its a comfort to know people are listening, and understand.
<br>I am encouraged that some people "turn the corner", so to speak. I don't know how long it took to reach that corner. But my wife and I are not there yet.
<br>We both admitted that we are very tense at home. And we both feel it will pass with time. I am more open with my feelings than I have ever been with her. I feel that she is once again, my best friend. She listens to my feelings, and talks about them to me. For this reason, it hurts even more to see the unhappiness in her.
<br>I have read about the Marriage Encounter weekends, and the like. Both partners have to be willing to partake. Also, you both have to feel that the marriage itself is the problem. In my case, my wife is not just unhappy in the marriage, but with herself. Before we can look into how to be happy together, she has to be happy with herself.
<br>Best regards to all.
<br>