Lady M:<P>My thoughts exactly. But, I am feeling a little more hopeful based on the responses of many of the men on this site.<P>It seems that a good marriage is out there if Jesus Christ is the center of each person's life. <P>In God's time, maybe we will all find what we are looking for are better yet what God knows is best for us.<P>711

I guess I'm one of those women who won't be with a man who reads Playboy. I don't read Playgirl, or gawk at other men, so I expect the same in return.<P>I think alot of men misbehave partly because the women in their lives put up with it. Most people don't change unless they have run out of all other alternatives. I'd like to hear men say someday "If you expected your wife/girlfriend to be ok with your Playboy subscription, there wouldn't be many left to pick from"<P>I too don't want another man in my life. What I would need a man for, most are not willing to offer, and that is someone who is a true partner. I think most (not all, of course) are raised to be major takers, not givers. I also don't want to be in a position 10 yrs down the road having invested my life with someone, and have them haul butt. What a waste of time. <P>LadyM,<BR>you said: Marriage is more than just a business deal where you use the other person to get your needs met and when you don't get them, even if they are unrealistic, you feel justified to "trade in" your spouse so you can get a "better deal" with someone else. If that's all marriage is, I do not want it.<P>My thoughts exactly. Even though I'm sure Harley's methods work, it is the whole idea of treating it like a business deal approach that tends to turn me off. I think his methods work because most people only stay in relationships when they feel good all of the time. It says nothing about commitment and hard work, which is a necessary aspect of a life-time relationship. <p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited April 30, 2000).]

711,<P>There are a lot of good men out there. There are just as many good women out there (like me ). You can't expect to go out anywhere and "look" for him. Sometimes, when you least expect it, is when it will happen. However, I agree, one with a strong faith, is going to be the best.<P>Don't let this bad experience, destroy your faith in all men. Some people are happier on their own. Some people may have a hard time trusting again. I dated a few people, that quite honestly, I'd never trust them. But you may be lucky enough to find someone that you will trust. I can tell you that I am learning to trust again.<P>I never thought it would be possible. But it truly is. I have gone through probably one of the most devastating break ups you could imagine. (my story is on the general questions and just found out forum). I remember days when I thought, life couldn't get much worse. Then a few days later, it did. I am working hard to live a happy life again. If I can get past it, and become a better person for it, I think anyone can. <P>Take a look to the men who have replied to your post alone. I have followed their stories, since I came, and I have watched how they struggle with doing what is right. There are plenty more of them out there. You'll find your prince charming one day. Or, he'll find you, but it will happen.<P>Prayers with you and all on the site, Dana<P><BR>

Lonely Mom,<P>Thanks for your encouraging words. I have read some of your other posts and you have such a healthly perspective on all of this.<P>I went to a Frest Start Seminar this weekend and heard that we do not need to go out and look for Mr. Right. God will send us the right man when we are ready (if that is meant to be). As time passes on, we will probably enjoy being single. When we get to a point where we no longer care about having anyone else in our lives, that is when we will be ready to meet someone else.<BR>So, I'm not going to worry about this anymore. I'm turning this over to God and will wait to see what happens.<P>

According with most definitions here I am not a good man. I mean, I don't go to church every Sunday and believe that through Buddha, Mahoma and other sages God tried to save everybody, not only those lucky enough to know Christ.<P>I pray every day & teach my daughter to pray for her, her parents, the extended family, her friends, for peace in the world...<P>I also believe that I won't be a better man if I dedicate my life to my W even if she does not want to continue our marriage for reasons that some around here already know.<P>Re: pornography I had my share of that- used to read it with the wife- video, Playboy & Penthouse too.<P>Like 2dedicated, I see myself like "a nice guy", my counselor says that I am "too nice", and that this is a reason why the wife lost respect for me. Even today the nice guy in me is negotiating with her who leaves the house and who stays, while I am convinced that it's in my daughter's best interest that she leaves.<P>Good man? I don't know. I think that we are all potentially good, all it takes is some interest in the other person, being that person your spouse, your relative, your neighbor or the stranger that you run into at the grocery store.<P>A good man... a good man... <B>good for what?</B><P>Alex<P>------------------<BR><B>Live fully and always learn</B><p>[This message has been edited by ThisAlex (edited May 02, 2000).]

The Student - Thank you for your reply. I just had a few more thoughts about needs vs. wants. I do believe that there are certain needs in marriage that need to be filled - love, trust, respect, fidelity, honesty, affection, and consideration of another's feelings. I think that much more than that is subject to honest negotiation, and not a prerequsite to staying married or faithful to your spouse. To set an agenda, to my thinking, is to acknowledge that your spouse is just there to be used to satisfy yourself, and very often, at the spouse's expense. At what point do needs become demands? Do we have a right to expect our spouse to fill all of our needs, under threat of adultery and/or abandonment? If all your needs are not being met, this is not a license to leave or have an affair, but an obligation to negotiate honestly and lovingly with your spouse, being mindful of their needs also, and whether or not you are meeting their needs that you are realistically able to fill. This is where the "Policy of Joint Agreement" is so helpful. It seems so many straying spouses expect their needs to be filled without question, but have no thought as to whether or not they are meeting their spouse's needs. Perhaps that is part of the difference between those who stray and those who do not. Just some random observations! My H decided he "needed" what I could not realistically give him (and what his actions made impossible even if I could)- knowing full well I could not, so he could justify his own actions (the affair and walking out on our marriage.) What a pathetic way to make decisions and to treat the person with whom you have spent half your life with.

711,<P>That is the best way you can go about this. Thanks for the compliment, I try very hard to NOT get bitter and angry.<P>Right now I am so happy no one could do a thing to ruin this mood!!<P>Good luck and remember, there are still LOTS of good men out there, I believe that with all my heart.<P>Dana<BR>