Hey Student,<P> Yes, glad to hear you're okay...<P>About the honesty thingy... let's face it... people like us just HAVE to be honest... it may bite us in the butt, but c'mon, you'll be honest because THAT'S WHO YOU ARE... people will love you or not, and that's their problem. You are a person of integrity, and FOR YOU, honesty is the way. <P>K and JL made some very good points, specifically that XH #2 is a [censored]. HIS problem, not yours. <P>You are one person, Student, who will draw me out of my self-imposed exile from this place... and the reason is that I truly do respect you... PLEASE remember that you are a good person. Nothing else matters.

Hey Student!,<P>I am sooo glad to hear that you are doing well! <P>We were all pretty concerned about you!<P>You will never know just how much I value your posts and thoughts on issues!<BR>(you have really helped me more than you will ever know!)<P>Keep your chin up...........you are a great women........w/such strength!.....I really do admire you!<P>Take it easy and keep hanging in there!<P>Gina <P><P>------------------<BR>"If we deny love that is given to us,if we refuse to give love because we fear pain or loss,then our lives will be empty,our loss greater!"-----Anonymous----

<P> "OH,Student",<P> You ever talk like that again,and I'll,.....I'll,.... <P> Just don't do that again,OK?<BR> I was ready to call out the Atlanta Police!<P><BR> BTW,I'm not all peaches and cream,either.<BR> I've done [censored] in my life that'd make your hair stand on end. <P> Also,BTW,what was your name,address,and phone# again,just in case?!<BR> I had it written down here somewhere......<P> And here I thought I had the ladies scared with my"ghosts in the basement"story!!!<P> Do take care of yourself.<P><BR> ~~Murph <P><BR>

The cynical part of me (and there isn't much else anymore) thinks that the real problem is not honesty, but remorse. If the betraying spouse can manage to never feel remorse, there is little downside to having an affair. They can go on with their life quite happily. I don't know quite how one manages to avoid remorse, but apparently a lot of people do.

Wow, you guys. I'm very touched that all of you want to help me. <P>K,<BR>Yes, I'm feeling very bipolar. On my down days, I convince myself that I could and should have lied about all this. It usually doesn't take me that long to understand that honesty was an issue from the very beginning. I didn't use my filter back then. Then I swing back to "how could I waste 8 yrs with him? How could I let someone treat me like that?" I understand the filter concept. Problem is, I'm hurting way too much to risk having someone else do what my ex did. <P>Brilliant engineer (thanks ) knows that I happen to be around alot of 20-25 yr olds right now whose life script is yet unwritten. Even though I shouldn't be comparing myself to them, sometimes I do. Being around them makes me feel like I'm the only one who has ever done something bad, even though I know that alot of them haven't lived long enough to make the big screw-ups. All I'm left with to counter that is 8 yrs of someone telling me every so often how inferior I was, and a year of him telling me and showing me almost on a daily basis how useless I was as a human being. Another reason is explained below:<P>Bystander,<BR>You know, I believe you. Here's the deal though. It is not just them. It is their friends, their family, and anyone else they happen to tell that I'm divorced twice (for whatever reason). This loser that I dated after my divorce told his friends and family before they met me that I was divorced twice. Ok, you say. No big deal? Wrong. They had already made up their minds about me before they met me. One of his friends laid into me the very first time she met me. His mother was convinced that I was a 30 something woman desperate to have kids and couldn't be alone. HA,HA,HA,HA. You all know that is sooo opposite from me. Anyway, I bring this up because it is not just that guy I have to deal with. I have to deal with every screwed up friend/relative of theirs who thinks I'm a bad risk, and I just don't want to go there. I have to sort through this B.S. not only because I cheated, but because I'm divorced twice and MY failures are friggin' PUBLIC RECORD.<P>NB,<BR>I know you are right. No matter how hard I try to mix oil and water, that damned oil just keeps floating to the top! Sometimes I think life would be just so much easier if I could be one of those people who had no remorse and could lie with a straight face. Then I get scared that I even think that. <P>Nellie1,<BR>I know it is hard not to be cynical. I'm living proof of that, so I don't know how to help you. I'm struggling with the same issues. Doing the "right" thing feels like a cruel joke when you see people who don't have remorse out having a good 'ol time and successful. Makes me want to be like them sometimes. Makes me understand how kids in the projects end up dealing drugs and stealing cars instead of going to school. I suppose the short term solution always appears more attractive. The long term solution (usually the best) is the least fun. <P>JL,<BR>I think I'm obsessing over being divorced twice and feeling like damaged goods. I don't like that my failures are public record. <P>Mitzi, <BR>I know your story. One of the things that just recently started sinking in was how abusive my relationship was with my second H. It has occurred to me that I end up with very angry men. Angry men who display their anger in different ways. My first cheated on me non-stop. My second cut me down in big ways and small. The guy I dated briefly was extremely passive-aggressive. The good thing is that I spotted it very quickly. The only conclusion I've made is that I choose angry men, because there is alot *I* am angry about. Maybe you have a website or other forum (one for abusees/abusers) that would be helpful? <P>711,<BR>Thanks for your concern. I really didn't realize how cryptic that sounded, and feel a little ashamed that I got you all so worried.<P>Murphy,<BR>If you send the Atlanta Police out here, make sure one is Guy E, with lots of striations, ok? I'm not into handcuffs, but some silk scarves would do. Juuuuust kidding. I do appreciate your concern, and your sense of humor!!<P>Gina,<BR>Thanks for the big grin. Lately, I feel like I've been here flailing around and stepping on alot of toes. I'm glad you've been able to filter through to some more helpful things.

TS,<P>(Stern lecture to follow. :eek <BR>Let's get some things straight before we get into a real pity party. First, you definitely didn't fail in your first marriage. You H was running around and you did your best to make it work. Second, you failed your H by having an affair, but you then moved heaven and earth to reconcile with him. That my dear is a failure in judgement on you part but it wasn't a failure to be true and honest with your H. Yes, he had the right to divorce and exercised it, but you did all you could do to keep the marriage going.<P> Finally, after reading you story about the Turkey (guy) you dated after the divorce, I have to say your biggest failure so far is your taste in men. Does, this guy realize what a loser he is? No one, certainly not a sauve, debonier (sp), ladies man ever tells anyone about the lady he is dating.<P>Geez, TS you have got to get out more. You are meeting the wrong type of guys. Go for a scientist or a business man, but leave those engineers alone. <P>Seriously, TS, yes the marriages failed, but that does not mean that you did. Yes, you made some mistakes, and who hasn't. Yes, if you understood the human condition better, things would have been different (you wouldn't have married these two guys), but they failed also.<P>So lose the failure attitude, please. It isn't becoming and it really doesn't fit you very well.<P>God Bless,<P>JL<P>Se

JL,<BR>"Yes, he had the right to divorce and exercised it"<P>I disagree. He had no more right to divorce me than I had to cheat. Either person can get a divorce for any reason at any time. That is why marriage is such a joke. It is not a binding contract. <P>"TS you have got to get out more. You are meeting the wrong type of guys".<P>I had written a bunch of stuff about staying celibate and not dating. So far,I've been staying celibate because I hadn't worked up the guts to lie about my past and I don't want to get remarried. You are right. I should get out more. The only reason I have not is because of my fear of talking about my life and the reactions I might get. You know, JL and K, you really don't know what it is like to be faced with the double standard that women face. I've worked around nothing but men all of my adult life. Mostly engineers, some architects, and a few others. I can tell you, that most men expect their partners to have a "cleaner" life than their own. I don't know why that is, it just is. So, I can choose to continue to try and buck the system, or just go along with it. To go along with it, I will have to lie. That is fine with me now. Consider that the price men have to pay (or at least that 20-30% that K mentioned) for doing their part to enforce that double standard. They get to be lied to.<P>Harley is dreaming. His total honesty policy disproportionately hurts much more women than men. When men confess, they are usually forgiven. When women confess, they are usually punished or abandoned. I can't blame Harley for my decision to confess. I did it before I found this website. However, given the same circumstances, and knowing what I know now, I would not have confessed. I'm not going to be honest about my past either with anyone new. Everything else will be completely above board, except for that. <P><p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited August 04, 2000).]