Hey Sue,<BR>I'm not picking on you on any of my posts, and I've made a point of not coming onto this thread for a reason. Find someone else to make fun of. <P>but, while I'm here... I'll say it again. Anybody can feel what you are feeling. The fact that you are does not make you special. What makes someone special is the ability to follow through with something a little more substantial than feelings. But hey, enjoy it while it lasts...<BR>

Well, I finally got brave. I asked was it A, B, C, or D. It was D. All of the above. But I didn't have the courage to do it anyway but on the phone. This chemistry thing is driving me crazy. <P>I've always been so good at "No" that I don't know what's going on. A couple of years ago, I bit a guy who tried to kiss me inappropriately. I did that even though, or because, I was drunk - I could still say NO. My '"NO" apparatus' doesn't work now. I sure don't want to go through life without it. It's too dangerous. So, what's the deal? <P>I've always been a good girl. I still am but, boy, oh boy, is it harder now.

I am newly seperated. I'm not near ready for another relationship but hope that someday I will be. I have been married to the same man since I was 18 I am now 35. I have never looked or thought about another man. Was it hard for you to take that step? Did you still feel like you were betraying him or her somehow? Even though my H hurt me I'm afraid that I'll compare everyone I meet to him and measure them up to him. <P>Jill

Jill, <BR>I waited longer than you to marry, I was 28, but felt the same as you. I was quite certain for a while I did not want another man in my life. <BR>Then I woke up. I realized that my X was not coming back, I realized my life has to go on, and that I did not want to live my life without another person in it. <BR>I dated 4-5 men this spring after my divorce was final. There was friend feelings, but nothing else. The I started seeing the man I am seeing now. It felt weird, strange, because I could teel there was something there. <BR>I have seen him exclusively for 7 months now. We have taken the "physical" plunge, and it is good for both of us.<BR>It is now a metter of trust. Can I trust enough again to let someone all the way in? He has been divorced longer than I and is more ready than I. So my approach is to continue getting to know each other, and slowly begin to trust again. <P>------------------<BR>Susan

Jill - I met my x when I was 18. Married him at 21. For our 10th anniversary, we went to the winter olympics in Calgary, for our 12th I got pregnant with d, for our 15th I gave birth to s, for 17th he announced he wanted a divorce. He's been gone from home 5 yrs, we've been divorced nearly 2. <P>I didn't start dating again until this past May. No one came along. Do I feel at all like I have betrayed x? No way on the face of God's good earth. Never wasted a bit of thought on that. Have no idea where this relationship is going, but it sure is fun.

Hi Jill,<P>A ditto from me to Sue's and Cinderella's thoughts. I didn't look at other men "that way" while married, and it kind of sickened me when I thought I SHOULD be looking at men that way when I was separated - I just couldn't. But there will come a time when it happens. You need time healing yourself first. Notice, all of us who are dating, and happy about it, are quite a long way down the road - and isn't that nice to see too? That there is a life after devastation? You don't expect it to happen, when you are at the hour to hour, day to day phase you are in now, but once the destructive anger and bitterness, and overwhelming sadness are gone, you are ready to have a life again.<P>Maybe you should consider the Nashville trip? I am really looking forward to it, and meeting all these women (oh and men too) that I have really grown to like - who understand EVERYTHING I am feeling/have felt. <P>Oh, and Cinderella, I think that is great about your friend. You are a photographer? We have similar abilities too!<p>[This message has been edited by honey.west (edited September 12, 2000).]

One other thing here.....I guess at my "mature" age (46) I am not interested in dating a lot of men(even if they would have me ) I just want to see one person and spend my time with them...I was lucky in that I had known this man I am seeing now for several years already, knew his history, and already knew we had a lot in common. <P>This is a relationship that is worth putting the time and effort into. I am discovering that more and more as time goes by. The most difficult thing I believe is taking that step to actually open yourself again to another, esp after you have been betrayed.<BR> <BR>But, life is to be lived, and perhaps not for everyone, but for me, life with another is something I do not want to miss out on. I feel a commitment to another can enrich our lives. It is just a matter of extending ourselves to be ready for it. <BR>The recovery time to be ready to open up varies for everybody. Some need many yrs, some decide not to pursue another relationship. That is their choice, and for them it may be what works for them. I just know for me, I feel I would be losig out on something I would regret later, if I let the bitterness and loneliness I felt after my 17 yr marriage died keep me from another relationship. <BR>

Jill,<P>I missed half this post as I've been 'out of the loop', but to answer your question , I didn't feel guilty or betraying.<P>I remember the first person I kissed after the divorce process and it was strange, scary almost like twilight zone, but I didn't feel guilty.<P>I met my ex at 17, gave him 3 daughters by 25, and we were together 11 years. I sacrificed a lot and was happy to do it. If my best wasn't good enough for him, than he has a problem too.<P>I did want to date more than one person at the time, because I didn't know much about dating, or guys.<P>I have learned that guys are VERY different from one another, yet in some ways, their too DAMN similar!!!<P>Can't live with em, can't live without em, well in my case anyway.<P>Dana<BR>

SUe,<P>I have been trying to send you mail for a few days now and its coming back returned???Dana<BR>

Thanks for all of your encouragment! I am by nature a look towards the future kind of person so actually I'm doing fine. I have never been on my own before so I think that is what scares me the most. For the most part I am ready for this divorce. I probably have been for many years I just didn't want to admit failure to myself. I love my H as a friend and that is what I hope we can always be. I think what got hurt the most was my pride. I'm hoping that someday I can find a man who likes what I like, can get along with my family, and love me how I need to be loved. I know I'm not ready yet but after divorce is final who knows? It is so nice to see that life does go on and maybe better than before.<P>Jill

Dana, It should work..I got your forward today!! Try again!!<P>------------------<BR>Susan

Sue,<P>OK, the $64 question, suppose he is the one.<P>Do you feel you have to marry him, or just be monogamous together for the rest of your lives?<P>Just wondering why get married a second time?Someone once told me the only reason to get married is to have kids, otherwise, it is not really worth it.<P>I kind of like that point of view. And I asked some one at work who had grown children, and who had just married the second time. And she said "I'm old fashioned. I like being married."<P>Well, three years later she came up to me and said, "I like your advice. I will never get married again." She got divorced.<P>I think married once is enough personally. Live with someone, or travel with someone, but live separate during the week. Sounds good to me.<P>I'm not the touchy feely, closeness kind. Ick! The joined at the hip feeling is just too much.<P>thl

THL, <P>Good question....and to be honest, I go around this one from time to time. I guess I just always saw myself married when I was old, when the kids were gone, etc...<P>Now I am ambivilent(sp) about it. I do know that I want to share my life with another, and hopefully it will be a long term relationship, not just a few yrs here and there. But I am 46, my kids are teens and I can already see the light at the end of that tunnel. <P>I want someone to wake up next to, I enjoy that kind of closeness. I like the idea of being there for each other, to talk things out, to have common goals to work towards, etc. Do I need marriage for that?? I am not sure. <P>My friend wants to be married. He wants a partner in all senses. He knows how I feel right now. He is patient, at least for now. Perhaps I will feel different in a yr or two...<P>------------------<BR>Susan

I know what you mean. I'm not sure I want to get married again. But, I'm not sure I don't. Don't want to live with someone - I'm a bit old fashioned, too. But to have a companion would be wonderful.<P>I'm having trouble with having sex but not being married as you might have guessed since that sort of triggered this thread. Mmmmmm, it feels so good but I still feel guilty. Let's face it, x just wasn't interested and this man actually knows how to operate a female body. Well, that's enough about that.<P>But I've had my heart royally ripped out and stomped flatter than a parking lot pancake. Don't want to go through that again. Don't want my children to see me go through that nor do I want them hurt that way again. It would be easier to never have a date again than to endure another divorce. I just want ..... I don't know what I want. I guess I would truly love to have someone to love me for who I am - warts and all. And for them to love my children. We do come as a package deal. He would have to be good father material. And he'd have to be good..... And he'd have to be able to afford me. (No small task.) And he'd have to already have had his head fixed. That or get it fixed before I'd consider getting serious.

Yep, I understand.....<BR>If I didn't have the kids, I would live with someone..But I do, so he stays over when they are not home. <BR>The sexual chemistry for me is very exciting. My X, while not falling down drunk, would have 3 6 beers a night, then want to have sex. With all the other things going on, I was just not very responsive to him (it was a need of his, I just didn't know how much). Sex was not very fulfilling for me. My x just didn't try much to make me feel good. It was all about him. <BR>Then I have sex with my friend. Talk about bells and fireworks!! I had forgotten I could enjoy it so much!! And I was pretty sexually active in my younger days!! He always takes my pleasure into account. That was very surprising to me, after yrs of sex with a tipsy guy! He is not pushy about sex, and I find myself asking him for it more than he asking me!!<P>It has made me feel alive again, desired, and wanted. Adn I had not felt that in a long time. <P>------------------<BR>Susan

I know what you mean. My x seldom drank and seldom wanted sex. I had to make an appointment and then he went from first touch to roll over and go to sleep in less than 15 minutes. The guy I'm seeing now knows how to make it last well over an hour in totality. Well over. And I enjoy it so much more. <P>I maintain that until a few weeks ago, I was the ultimate good girl. I had had sex with only one man. Granted he raped me the first time but I didn't see it that way because it was only slightly further than we were going consentially. But, techinically, there was penetration without permission which constitutes rape. Then I married the man. It was after he filed for the divorce that I first realized truly that I had been raped. <P>But, for some reason, I'm really having trouble saying no to this new man. He seems to enjoy it as much as me. I'm still troubled by this, though. I want him but I want to be celibate. And it's really a struggle. A spiritual as well as a physical struggle. <P>I am still confused by this chemistry.

Hi ladies and gentlemen,<P>Is this thing STILL going?<P>You in competition with Murphy and Mitzi??<P>OK here's a scary thought. THink about this one. Suppose you have chemistry with someone and were happy with that, and meet someone new and have even MORE chemistry. When I say more , I mean double it. <P>Do you think this would make you think you weren't quite ready to be out there dating?? <P>SUe, sent ya email today to test it. <P>Prayers , Dana<BR>

Sue,<P>OK, so you date for two, maybe three years.<BR>Then, you kids are out of the house, or almost.<P>Is it worth detting married then? You can live together, or each have a house and alternate places to make it interesting~<P>Just a thought. Although I am way behind you guys in the whole process, I just want to provide for my kids, what we were discussing before STBX chickened out and saw no other way but to get D. And that is to provide them a house in a neighborhood.<P>If I did that, and i will be unemployed in a few weeks, the kids would have a great place, its just a huge nut to crack to get a $400 - 500 k house these days, they are starter castles in my town.<P>so getting married to a professional woman would be great! dual income, kids come whenever they want! but the thought of it just scares the cr@p out of me, since I originally was so manipulated, and I see it now more than ever.<P>So my focus is the kids for the next ten years, and then having fun after that! I am not as serious as you wanting a relationship, but the thought of a woman asking for sex occassionally sounds really nice, and I always think about the other person. so hopefully there will be hope in ten years from now!<P>anyway, right now, it is a definate no for me.<P>type at you later<P>thl

THL, <BR>I would prob be ok living with someone..but if this is the one, I am not sure he is willing to do that. If things are still going in two yrs, it may be a question of how much does he mean to me, and if it is impoortant for him to be married, the that great MB philosophy may kick in, the policy of joint agreement!!<P>I may be ready then, but not now. I still have some of my own issues to deal with and some growing to do myself. <P>------------------<BR>Susan<p>[This message has been edited by sue (edited September 15, 2000).]

My plan wasn't to rival anyone. I'm just trying to deal with my conflict.