Hi Murph,<BR>Thanks for crashing! We could use a few laughs in here!!<P>I hadn't seen your reply, so I'll go check it out. I'm still planning on going to Seattle next summer to visit my parents, so I'm definately going to look you up for that cup 'o Java and a trip up to the Needle. I'll even up the ante and balance coffee cups on my backside!!<P>You can't desert this website till you give me some way to get in touch with you. I'm going to leave it up to you, cause I think you might be a little more flexible about your anonymity than I am. Not sure I feel comfortable giving out my personal e-mail address. <BR> <BR>Hope you are doing ok today. It is a different feeling once it is actually "final". <BR>

TS,<P>I don't have much time and had prepared a long post to you, but it got lost in the ether. Further, I tried to save it and got nothing but HTML junk. <P>So I will come back tonight and try to reconstruct the "deathless prose" I had put here.<P>Have a good day and God Bless,<P>JL

Hey Student,<P> So you want to remain anonymous? <BR> <BR>So here's what you do.Do what I did,and have a separate mail server just for this board,using only your nickname(e.g.-thestudent@,bubblebutt35@,etc.).Then people can e-mail you,but not know who you are.<P> You know,I have 3 of them.One for here(murphy46@mail.com),one I give out to websites(gets all the junk),and a personel one(for family and friends).Works pretty good,just remember who you're supposed to be when you write back!<P> Didn't know about the Jennifer Lopez thing.<BR> I'm a gonna have to check that out! <P><BR> ~~Murph

Hi,<P>Ploughed through the dissertation and would like to add my $0.02 worth.<P>Aids, unlike prostate cancer and other cancers, is a killer disease that is highly infectious and can be transmitted to innocent parties including infants still in the womb. Creating greater awareness is one of the means to curb the spread of the disease through prevention and precaution. Furthermore, people need the constant bombardment to remind them to abstain from destructive lifestyles (sadly the warnings are not heeded often enough). <P><BR>Now to the MEN:<BR>Generally, men have been brought up to feel that the household chores are the women's domain. I feel that the Scandinivian countries (Sweden and Norway) heap a lot of respect on the womenfolk, and my friends from these enlightened nations share the chores. At the other extreme are the women folks from Cuba and lower caste Indians where the men keep clubs to punish their wives, and Indian widows are considered a curse and abandoned by all and sundry, respectively.<P>You may be interested to know that both Norway and India have women Presidents for some time now.<P>As for the USA and some first world nations, the 'average' woman has to be like a superwoman, bringing home a big chunk of the bacon, be groomed and fetching, do the household chores, get emotional needs into husband's lovebank, even accept the blame for WS's infidelity.<P>I give up.<P>I was raised to be a capable domestic engineer, have a sense of humour and compassion, educated to postgrad level, was a cover girl mag fashion model, am a decent person with love for many things in life....<P>I am twice married. The first to an abused orphan who then abused me and was WS to boot. I did all the chores while he did whatever he wanted. He was a tyrant and I had to handwash everything! I even sacrificed hand-modelling to do the laundry.<P>I did the same in the second marriage except I demanded modern tech (washing machine and dryer). WS sometimes chip in with vacuuming and mopping when he remembers, and on those occasions when the lightbulb blows. Hey, my dad taught me to change lights since I was 8, but Mr MCP (male chauvinist pig) didn't think it the woman's thingy. I am glad anyway to not have to change the lights.<P>My present WS got pissed drunk one night and found the chinless wonder co worker in his bed and it seemed there were blackmails involved and the banshee aka Glenn Close knived him after a 2 year affair and landed in jail for some nights. <P>How I hate my husband and sometimes how I hate men!<P>But I am seeing things clearer now and can separate the pigs from the lovelies. Generalising helps to some degree, but like my own experiences bear out, it is all so individual.<P>My late father (whom the banshee screamed at over the phone when he refused to entertain her calls. His chest tightened and soon after he passed away from other complications) was an amazingly wonderful and honourable man. He was of regal bearing and very handsome and tall. One drunken night he was pushed into a room with a woman who was paid for and was almost naked. His clients egged him on but he banged and almost broke the door down and fled home.<P>For a man like my father, I would have sacrificed much to stay at home to raise a family because of the emotional security he provides. I don't recall him doing housework, only when he retired.<P>There are few good and precious men out there, and they come with their idiosyncracies. I have learnt now not to compromise and do it all, because at the end of the day, I have less time to innovate and create.<P>For two months, my WS was saddled with all the housework when the discovery of the A hit me and I couldn't and wouldn't do the housework. I couldn't even lift my baby. It was a huge blow.<P>WS didn't realise how tiring it was for me to hold a good job, do all the chores, have sex often, cheer everyone up, bear with his frequent travels, etc... But two months of housechores were making him swear; now we have live-in help.<P>I would advise women to go and reach their potential, and be the best that they can be. For some it may be making footprints in the history tomes, for others it may be bringing up lovely and well-adjusted children. <P>Men come in different forms: faithful husbands, unfaithful ones, fathers, brothers, managers, mentors, predators, abusers, preachers, etc. If you are blessed, you will find one faithful, loving and ever-growing man to make life almost magical! But mostly, we are blessed if we can grow despite the horrific curves life throws at us. <P>Having being burnt twice in the same way, I don't hate all men, only my WS, and sometimes the die-hard romantic in me still believes that there may be someone there to make my later years magical....Other than that, I focus on being a ravishing woman with an acutely sound mind. These are blessings and magical qualities in themselves....<P><BR>

Weep,<P>I hope you're not doing as much of that lately (weep that is).<P>What a, what's the word, terrific, heart-rending, um, even inspiring story. My luck with husbands is not the best either. I can say that I respect my father now, but couldn't say that when I was growing up.<P>When I get on my soapbox, some people might think that I hate all men, and I certainly don't. If anything, I hate what our collective society (both men and women) considers "manly" or "womanly" and think it harms both genders. You pointed out a few extremes (i.e. Cuba and India). That is an example of their society norms. <P>The Scandanavian countries ARE very enlightened (IMO) and also happen to some of the lowest crime rates in the world. On the other hand, they also pay some of the highest taxes in the world for their social programs (I think it is around 50% of their total income). Japan also has a low crime rate (compared to the US), but is still pretty backwards in their treatment of women. According to a Harvard Review article I just read on Japanese manufacturing, they don't allow women to work on the factory line. What's funny is that they were complaining about the shortage of factory labor. Duh. They are excluding half the population. Keep it up, though. Just makes it that much easier for the "enlightened" nations to outcompete them. Anyway, I digress. The US is the country we live in, and I'm mainly concerned about our society.<P>Alot of people think feminism is a dirty word. What I have to remember is that feminism was originally about having choices. Not only for women, but for men as well. Domestic engineer. I like that

Hi Weep, Hi Student,<P>You know what? You both bring up something that *I* think has EVERYTHING to do with how we see men! Our fathers! Mine adopted me when I was two years old. He fell in love with my mother, and me, after my natural father died. I could not have picked a better dad for myself if God himself had given me a choice! He is a beautiful man, both inside and out, and treated me as if I was the most precious person on earth. He still does. He tells me I'm beautiful, he tells me I'm smart, he cares about me, my children, even David (tee hee), he tells me he loves me often, hugs and kisses me, and the thought of him brings me to tears. I adore him. <P>My mother isn't as quick to praise, yet they have been together for 38 years. There was a seperation several years ago, but thankfully they worked it out. There was not infidelity, just my mom going for her Ph. D. and damn tired, and realizing that her life wasn't what she wanted. So she changed a few things, he changed a few things, and now they seem happier together. <P>Maybe I have Dad to thank for my hopes and dreams that there is that illusive man out there who will love me in spite of myself. I think I may have found him, and when I think about it, this new man reminds me a bit of my dad. <P>Weep, thank you for giving me pause this morning... and you write elloquently.<P> Sheryl<P>P.S. (hense the edit) JL!!!! Having a bit of trouble coming up with that DATA???? <p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited September 14, 2000).]

NB,<BR>I don't want to believe that people just get divorced and just move onto someone new. That is what my ex thought when he divorced me. Heck, that is probably what he thought when he married me "If it doesn't work out, I'll just get a divorce". <P>Those 50/50 divorce odds are for *all* marriages, and so are probably skewed big time by people who keep getting married over and over. There is probably a pretty decent percentage who get married the first time and stay that way. Or who get re-married after a death, and don't get divorced. <P>If I were a guy, I wouldn't take a chance on someone with my background. (Sometimes) nice, smart, attractive person that I am. That is something I just have to live with. Those that have "taken a chance" on me really aren't serious. I'm just a passing fancy, a bump in the road, or whatever. That is one main reason I'm not having sex without commitment. Since I don't believe that most people these days are capable of life-time commitment, then I'm probably not going to have sex again, at least not in the forseeable future. Kinda sad, cause I really used to enjoy it at one time. Its just not the same anymore. I really do hear too many BS stories from men looking for an interesting way to pass the time.

Stu,<P>Yeah, I understand what you're saying... <P>...but what do you think about the idea that our father's have had a place in how we view men?<P>I think it has BIG TIME merit!!<P>As I've told you a zillion times, I'm not here to try and push you back into dating, into sex,into anything. In fact, Student, this is the only thread I've written on for two weeks, and frankly, the only one I will. I'm still trying to wean myself off of this place. I love a good debate, and you are worthy of the effort. <P>That said, I've only been married once, and it was a long term marriage (20 years). I never wanted a divorce until I couldn't stand the pain anymore. It was NOT my intention to go right out and meet someone new. But this is indeed where I find myself. I'm not going to throw away a man who may be the best thing to happen to me because I've been burned before. My marriage wasn't all bad, and what was good was VERY VERY good. I'd like to find the good again. It just can't happen with David. <P>I am young yet, and I am a romantic soul. I still trust people, more than not, maybe to my detriment, but there you have it. Men are people, therefore I trust men. Like you, I can spot a phony, and I can see when someone wants me only for my body (which, let's face it, after three kids and massive weight gain and loss, is not exactly firm. ). But hey, some men don't care, just want the goods. I understand that. But there are some who are good, honest, and just as human as I am. I'm willing to find out. <P>I don't see either of us (you or me) as right or wrong here. Just human, just trying to live our lives the best way we know how.<P>Take care, Sheryl

Hi NB,<BR>I don't think there is anything wrong with people who date after a divorce. The fact that you were married for 20 yrs means your odds of finding a decent guy are much higher than mine.<P>I certainly don't think all men (or even most) are out just for "the goods", as you say. Just alot of the ones who are interested in me. <P>I'll put it this way, would you trust a doctor or a lawyer who had lost their credentials in another state? Dating is worse than hiring someone to do a job, and alot riskier. At least when you are trying to hire someone, you can check their background. All you have to go on with dating is whatever their story happens to be. <P>For whatever reason, you were born or raised with the skill to maintain a very long-term relationship, so your odds of success in the future are probably pretty good. For the rest of us who had a truly f*cked up childhood, or some other disastrous event, the odds are not nearly as good. <P>If JL were here (hey, where the heck ARE you JL?) he'd tell me that I'm not a victim. Well, I WAS a victim when I was a kid. There are some things that are extremely difficult to overcome as an adult. I'm glad my parents finally found the error of their ways. It does make my life now a little easier, but it doesn't change how they raised me. I'm not a victim NOW in a sense that I have choices. My choices now are<P>a) Find a way to be content with having multiple sex partners the rest of my life<BR>b) be celibate<P>You know which choice I made. Now, I don't want to hear what a great person I am, blah,blah, and I don't want anyone to feel sorry for me. There are some people who are born without arms or legs, and they find a way to function. It is the same way with me. I'm not ragging on you for your choice. If you have found a way to be content with the possibility of changing partners every few years, or few decades, then that is your choice. Alot of people don't have problems doing that. Personally, there is no way on God's green earth that I'm going to subject myself to this hell again. <BR>

Me again, Student,<P>I'm gonna go backwards on your post:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>For whatever reason, you were born or raised with the skill to maintain a very<BR>long-term relationship, so your odds of success in the future are probably pretty<BR>good. For the rest of us who had a truly f*cked up childhood, or some other<BR>disastrous event, the odds are not nearly as good.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hmmm... okay, it may *seem* that I didn't have a f*cked up childhood, but let me share a few things... I was sexually molested when I was nine - by a woman. I don't mean by words only, I mean naked bodies and headgames that haunted me. It royally messed me up, and nobody believed me when I did finally tell. By then I was an overweight sexually active young woman (18 yrs. old) out there having unprotected sex with anyone who would have me. When I was 15 my mother announced, in a crowded restraunt, that she wished she would have put me up for adoption with my natural father died. She hated me. She hit me often. One of the reasons that David married me was to rescue me from her. One night when he came to pick me up I had one of those pointy electric rollers stuck in my head where she'd hit me. When I was younger she hit me with an ivory bathbrush. I lived in fear... both physical and emotional. I also feared that nobody would love me. None of those guys I screwed in the 70's loved me... and I THANK GOD for David, who loved me even though he didn't know exactly how because of his dysfunctional upbringing. That is, of course, a WHOLE other story. <P>I also thank God for this new man, who loves me for me, and sticks with me when I lose it. Let me give you an example: the other night he was telling me about a neighbor he had, a woman who wore a bikini outside all summer, looked good, and she was very nice to him, but not to his ex. Of course his ex was upset. But he didn't really understand. I totally lost it with him. BIG TRIGGER. David had a "problem" before his affairs in the 80's with a woman who walked around our apartment complex in a bikini. She came to me one day and told me to tell my H to leave her alone! At the time I was a young mom who weighed 260 pounds and felt like a pig. All I knew at the moment that this new man told me his story was that I was angry. It took me a day of thinking to realize what had happened. Then I told him that at the moment of realization I thought to myself, I can't trust you... it hurt him to hear that since he's never been unfaithful. He prides himself on that, as well he should. But this is my reality. I will always have triggers. He will too, and I may step on a land mine myself without realizing it. It's the chance we take.<P>So, I have my problems and it won't be easy... as it won't be for anyone beginning again.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I'll put it this way, would you trust a doctor or a lawyer who had lost their<BR>credentials in another state? Dating is worse than hiring someone to do a job, and alot riskier. At least when you are trying to hire someone, you can check their background. All you have to go on with dating is whatever their story happens to be.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I soooooooooooooooo agree with this. Faith is an illusive concept. I have faith in the other person, not so much in my ability. But people change, so even if I have a really good feeling about someone, it doesn't mean that it will last forever. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If JL were here (hey, where the heck ARE you JL?) he'd tell me that I'm not a victim.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You are NOT a victim. You need to trust yourself a bit more though. I am not a victim either, although I act like one a lot of the time. Look, I'm not gonna throw a bunch of flowery "you're so wonderful" words at you. But you ARE HUMAN DAMMIT, and that isn't a bad thing, you know? Just because you have some trouble trusting doesn't make you weak or anything else - just HUMAN. You've been hurt and you are protecting yourself. It's understandable. Just don't stop loving and living.<P>Finally, you said you could: <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>a) Find a way to be content with having multiple sex partners the rest of my life<P>b) be celibate <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Or, my dear student, you could find someone who is faithful and loves you in all your human-ness.<P>Sheryl<p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited September 14, 2000).]

NB,<BR>Still, don't completely discount your intuition. I found out at a dinner party last night that the guy I dated after my divorce IS dating a married woman, the one he mentioned to me (see earlier posts on this thread). I'm also pretty sure he was at least pursuing her (if not sleeping with her, who knows?) while he was dating me. He was confused when I told him I couldn't trust him either. At the time, it didn't really matter who or where it was coming from. Either, he was trustworthy and I couldn't trust him because of my divorce (meaning, I wasn't ready to date) OR he was not trustworthy. <P>I'm glad to know that my BS detector has not completely failed, although, I'm thoroughly disgusted that I ever let this slime-ball touch me. As it is, we stayed "friends" for far too long after I broke up with him. I still have a few odds and ends around that he gave me, like a couple of dog leashes and a push mower, which are now going into the trash or to whomever wants them.

Hey Student,<P> You can throw those dog leashes my way.<BR> I'll always take someone else's junk!<P> Mitzi could probably use that pushmower.<P> If you ever get an anonymous e-mail account set up,let me know.I'll send you some good jokes! <P><BR> ~~Murph

Hey There Stu (and a wave to Murph too! ),<P>I brought up the bathing suit thing to illustrate my trigger. I honestly do trust this man. He's never been unfaithful. Now, has he looked, lusted, etc??? Of course! I don't expect to find a man who hasn't. That's one thing I've learned through this marriage. There's a difference (in MY OPINION) between looking and touching. Some (women especially) will disagree I'm sure, they want to be the only woman their man looks at with lust in his heart. I happen to think it can't happen. But that opens a whole other can of worms, does it not?<P>Yes, my intuition is alive and well, and I've definately met my share of losers over this last year too. Funny how word of a divorce brings them out of the woodwork. I may have told this story once before, so bear with me if I have. A student I helped several years ago (college student) came into work for the express purpose of "thanking" me. He asked me out to dinner, and I was hesitant, but accepted because he was always such a nice guy, and I knew him well from the college. Long story short, by the end of the night I was in some hills behind a nearby community, in the dark and completely alone with him, and completely afraid for my life. Luckily for me, he stopped after I became hysterical. That taught me a valuable lesson. I had had some feelings that clearly said "don't go Sher" but I didn't listen. From then on I did!!<P>I'm sorry about your loser, and they sure seem to be all around us. But gee whiz, there a good men out there! I think I have found one of them. I pray that I'm right. Plus, I will never count my stbx as one of the bad ones. Just bad for me. Although in all honesty, until he comes to grips with his demons he won't make another a good husband either. I pity the woman he's with. But I digress... <P>Sheryl

Hi Murph,<BR>Well, I decided these leashes deserve a proper burial. I like the idea that it will probably go to the same landfill that I sent my wedding china to. Oh yea. Put it into a suitcase (his), picked up very ceremonious like, and dropped it on the floor. No fuss, no muss. A really good crashing, crunching sound though. Did that a few times till I could tell most of it was powder. Then burnt up all the pictures in the fireplace, and flushed some of the jewelry he gave me down the toidy. If you came to my house, you wouldn't see any mementoes of my marriage, except my wedding diamond. Did think long and hard about flushing that, but made it into a necklace instead.<P>My sister thought it was hilarious, but a little bummed that I didn't use the shards for a nice table or something. It was Lenox china. Probably did at least $1000 worth of damage that day. I know, I know. I could have sold it and given it to charity. Thought about that too, but I really NEEDED a funeral, and that was it.<P>If I was some kind of artist, maybe I could have made a failed relationship mural, or a breakup table. Every failed relationship would have it's symbol (whether it was china or dog leashes) decoupaged on a wall. Or, I could add a new piece of china or glassware to the table everytime a relationship ended. I'd either end up with something the size of a coffee table, or, by the time I'm old, something of appropriate size for the Biltmore Estate or Buckingham Palace!

NB,<BR>I don't expect a man not to find other women attractive, or as you say, lust in their heart. However, if they feel compelled to look while I'm in their presence or just have to tell me how hot this woman or that was, I believe they are being passive-aggressive and disrespectful. They can look as much as they want when I'm not around. <P>I won't be with men who have to go to strip joints either. I've gone to a few, and I know what goes on there. It is way beyond just looking, and I really don't want his sloppy seconds when he comes home all hot after looking at some other woman's snatch. I'm a pretty good dancer myself, and (not to brag or anything) my bod isn't half bad either. If he wants someone to strip for him, I can do that, so I don't see the need to go elsewhere. <P>Alot of guys think they have to "look" to prove they are a man, I guess. Still think it is very passive-aggressive. As you know, I don't consider typical "male behavior" to be very redeeming at all. Most women tolerate it because they don't want to be alone and just think all men are like that. My second H never gawked at other women, and never compared my looks to other women either. So, I do have a few good things to say about him, I guess.<p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited September 16, 2000).]

Hey Student/BB,<P> Perfectly good dog leashes,going to the landfill...... <P> That breaking of the China was pretty final,huh? I guess I haven't been able to do that,yet.I don't have any China,but about 3000 pix of us on all our travels over 24 years together.Couldn't bring myself to just burn them.Too many good memories.But I did bury them in the back of a closet.I still have some souvenirs from some of our trips that I bought,but they bring to mind the trips from my perspective.<P> I don't think I'd want a failed relationship mural in my house.All it would do is make me feel like a failure.Try not to be so hard on yourself,nobody's perfect(well,some of us are).How about a mural of all your accomplishments instead?<P> BTW,did you want an application for the MBPS Club to become an official member?<P><BR> ~~Murph <P>

Stu,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I don't expect a man not to find other women attractive, or as you say, lust in their heart. However, if they feel compelled to look while I'm in their presence or just have to tell me how hot this woman or that was, I believe they are being passive-aggressive and disrespectful.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think there's a big difference between taking a glance and TELLING YOU what they find attractive. *I* look at nice looking people. Does that make me passive-agressive or disrespectful? I don't think so. David used to look at a fat women walking down the street and say things like "good thing she's exercising, she needs it"... was it mean? Yep! Especially when you consider I was bigger than her!! Now THAT'S disrespectful! I once wrote, on the subject of total honesty, that we don't have to blurt out ever thought like "nice legs"... and that's true. But we can look. I don't see a problem with that.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I won't be with men who have to go to strip joints either. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Me neither!!!!! And I don't want Playboy, Penthouse or <spew, hiss, spit> Hustler in my house.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I've gone to a few, and I know what goes on there. It is way beyond just looking, and I really don't want his sloppy seconds when he comes home all hot after looking at some other woman's snatch. I'm a pretty good dancer myself, and (not to brag or anything) my bod isn't half bad either. If he wants someone to strip for him, I can do that, so I don't see the need to go elsewhere.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Agreed, on all counts. I have learned a few moves myself, and figure that whatever two consenting adults do is fine if they both agree. As mad as David's affairs made me, it was his trip for a lap dance that made my skin crawl. I especially appreciated waiting for him at home, in bed, all alone, in the middle of the night. Nice touch! See, I'm bitter too! <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>As you know, I don't consider typical "male behavior" to be very redeeming at all. Most women tolerate it because they don't want to be alone and just think all men are like that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is where we TOTALLY differ. I happen to think that male behavior can be quite wonderful... warts and all. Men are not women, as I've said before. There are wonderful men, as there are wonderful women, and there are gawd-awful horrible men, as well as women. There seem to be some shared warts between all men, and I'm not repulsed by them, I am rather intrigued by them.<P>David didn't gawk at women in front of me, but he did do it when I wasn't around, clearly. Does it make it better? No. <P>See, I just happen to think that men are men are men, and there are good, and there are bad. David wasn't bad, just misguided, hurt, confused. NM is a man too, and because he is a man he shares some of those "things" that most men do: he wants to be stronger physically, he wants to take care of me, he wants to make love all the time... and what's the matter with that? <P>See, my dear Student, this truly is where you and I will part ways, because although I am a strong feminist re: equal pay for equal work, her right to do any job a man can do, her right to choose all aspects of her healthcare, to pursue and education... I won't take it to an extreem. For example, equal pay for equal work means just that. If she can't do the job as a man would do it, then no equal pay. I don't want her test as a firefighter to be changed because she's a woman - she'd better be able to lift me out of a burning building or she shouldn't be there. <P>Okay, off my soapbox again for a Sunday morning!! Again, why aren't I in church??? I've got to get away from here!!<P>Have a great weekend Student!<P>PS Hi Murph <P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited September 17, 2000).]

NB,<BR>Actually, I agree on the fire fighter thing too. Where a physical requirement is necessary to do the job, then the woman should pass the same tests. It might take her a little longer to get to that level of fitness, but I don't think it is impossible. During my heavy duty weight lifting days when I was married to my first H, I could outlift a few of those Navy guys in the gym. And they had to get through boot-camp, so I know I could have passed the same tests.<P>Sorry for all the man bashing. I really am. Just feeling tired, lonely, and thoroughly rejected...<P>Bill,<BR>If you are lurking out there...I can type about 70-80 words/minute. Took a class in grade school. Anyway, the best thing to do is put tape over the keys and keep a little chart somewhere in case you get stuck. Eventually you learn not to look at the keys. Another tip is to type very slowly, but keep the same rythym. Don't pause and look. Just go as slow as you need to to keep the same pace. Eventually you will be able to pick up the pace. I'm at the point that I don't even think about where the keys are anymore. Kinda like playing an instrument. <P>Thanks for your encouragement on the other thread!! I honestly can't date until I find a way to stop throwing missiles of one form or another. I'm still in too much pain and into my own problems too much to be able to give much. Abstinence is my own personal winter season for now. My friends think I'm wierd too. Oh well.

TS,<P>Thanks for the typing pointer...hunting and pecking gets old...<P>It's ironic you brough up weight lifting. I started weight traing off and on this past spring and just started again full time this past week. It has been the best cure for depression I have found. I read an article about how it helps to produce the chemicals in the brain that help fight depression, not to mention the self-confidence booster. A rock hard bumm and washboard abs...that's what I'm talking about...LOL LOL...I made a goal to be able to lift my own weight 165lbs and I'm 30 lbs away...when I started I am ashamed to say I could barely bench 75lbs...I can't describe the confidence gain...I was really tired of being a 150lb weekling..Last Nov. when stbx and I seperated I made the goal of getting spiritual, emotionaly, mentaly and physicly fit. So far so good, not too many relapses either. Anyhow I'm rambling...I need to go into work and make a few teeth..Take care.<P>Bill

Hey Student,<P>I don't necessarily think you're man-bashing... again, I think you've been damaged and you're sick and tired of the pain... but as I said back on page one, don't discount all men because of a few baddies.<P>Hey Bill, <P>Hangin' out on a Sunday, eh? Gee, all this talk about rock hard abs makes me want to work out - kinda, sorta... well, um, no, actually it doesn't... but keep up the good work!!