TS,<P>The book was, "Walking on Eggshells: Taking your life back when someone you care about has Borderline Personality Disorder".<P>NB,<P>Thank you for your concern. I am not sure it is possible to "heal" from this - knowing that one of two things is true: either you can't trust anyone and no matter how well you think you know someone, they can undergo a personality transplant almost overnight, or my entire adult life has been a lie.

Oh Nellie,<P>Listen... who am I to convince you that you will heal? I don't know if you'll EVER heal. Here's what I know though... when you say things like:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>...either you can't trust anyone<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You have been damaged, as anyone who has been abused and has trust issues. It is difficult, maybe nearly impossible to overcome (or at least feel like it) but YOU CAN. I was molested when I was a young girl. I have trust issues. I still have some trust issues, but with time and therapy I have begun to work on them. <P>I also have abandonment issues. My natural father died when I was two months old and my mother didn't want me. I could go into an entire diatribe of my life, but I'll jump over to when I turned 15 and my mother told me, point blank, that she wished she'd given me up for adoption when my natural father died. Yet, I love, I trust, I overcome!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>...no matter how well you think you know someone, they can undergo a personality transplant almost overnight<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is true of literally everyone in your life, from Mom, to your children, to even YOU. This is just a human condition. It sucks, but it is the way it is. So, you'll never love or be loved again, never touch or be touched again, all because your H, ONE MAN ON EARTH, is a mean/mentally ill/cheater, and treated you poorly. My god Nellie, we ALL have our crosses to bear! <P>So pray that your H will come home, and do it for years if you want to... send out POSITIVE thoughts... whatever it is that you believe. But the world doesn't spin backwards... you have to go FORWARD. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>my entire adult life has been a lie.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This is the biggest lie of all. Nellie, your adult life has been one thing and one thing only - YOURS. You have those six beautiful children. They are yours no matter whether you have a H or not. It would be nice if he were involved, but he's not. He's an idiot. So are a zillion other men who abandon their children and leave them for mom to raise. <P>You have it harder than most with six kids (a couple in college if I remember correctly). That's a lot of kids, more than most have these days. I'm having enough trouble with my three. If I had to do it again, I'd have stopped at two (DON'T MISREAD, I LOVE MY SON AND WOULDN'T TRADE HIM FOR THE WORLD) but these days, it's just too hard to raise this many kids. Also, I'd have a hard time beliving any man who said, hey, have a boatload of kids and I promise to support them. Heck, I'd have a hard time believing he would make sure my *car* was maintained, at least after my marriage to David. He always SAID he would, but never did. I spent many an hour on the side of the road because I believed he'd take care of the vehicle - ooops, he hadn't. So I guess my point is this: you have an opportunity to take care of these kids without his input, and in fact, you MUST. You can't wait for him to "come back to his senses" because he probably won't. These kids will remember you for what you did, what you said, how you acted, and in fact the amount of grace in this situation. <P>Begin to live your life as if you're the only one who can change it (with God's help if you believe that - and even if you don't ). You owe that to yourself and to your children. If your H comes home, which is dubious at this point, then love him back into the fold, but in the meantime, TAKE CARE OF YOU and somehow find a way to let go of the negativity. It's gonna kill you.

To reiterate some sentiments I (and Nellie) have expressed in the past...<P>True love does not die. What dies is the willingness (ie commitment) to act in a loving way towards a person who continues to behave in a hurtful way. In that respect, the other person becomes incapable of recieving the love we offer. So, I have a choice. Hold out in the hope that my ex will someday open his heart to me again and be able to recieve the love I have for him. Or, eventually find another person who is capable of receiving my love. My ex has left me little choice. It is clear that he does not want me in his life whatsoever. The fact that we don't have children together makes his choice that much easier for him. I have no opportunity to even casually fill his "love bank". What I have done this year, is every so often send him an e-mail telling him that I still love him. He probably is getting sick of it. <P>At this point, I know that my studies, my efforts to heal from my husband's rejection, and my continuing love for him make it difficult for ME to receive love from a new person. I have no doubt that I can give love, and do, on a regular basis to my friends and family (and my animals ). <P>I understand why Nellie says she will never heal from this. It is incredibly difficult to understand how someone you can be so intimately connected to can completely shut you out of their life. Makes you wonder if you ever were really connected at all. I know I was, and still am to my ex. If he were to walk through my door today, there is no doubt in my mind that I would try again. My odds for success are still much greater with him, even with the pain we have both experienced, than with a random person off of the street. Unfortunately, my ex does not share my opinion. He believes that finding someone new is the answer to his problems. <P>NB,<BR>I suspect that your friend was enjoying a better relationship now because she learned things about her past relationship that she was now applying to the new person. To beleive that, miraculously, she had a better relationship just because she found a new person puts the emphasis in the wrong place, IMO. She could have applied those lessons in her first marriage, but either she or her first ex was unwilling to do so. <P>If I had children, I can't imagine that there would be any time span long enough that would kill my desire to reunite my family, provided I had not recommitted to someone else. It would be a very, very long time before I would recommit to someone else for that very reason. That is just me. I understand that you stood by David for many,many years through his multiple affairs. He has proven many times that he is incapable of truly receiving your love. <P>Nellie,<BR>I don't think you were living a lie. I understand why you might feel that way. I understand why you would be not be willing to reinvest in another person, given the behavior changes you observed in your husband. However, I do believe that he is a very rare anomoly. The vast majority of people do not go through such dramatic personality changes. The reason I felt safe getting married a second time was because I knew that the number of true sex addicts out there (like my first H) was very low, and also felt confident that I could spot such behavior very early in a relationship. In that way, I was very successful. My second H was faithful to me for a long time, and even the boyfriend I had between marriages was faithful. <P>What keeps me from committing right now or even looking is the overwhelming prevalence of people who consider love to be a "feeling" not an action. I have no desire to be in a relationship and feel insecure that at any given time when someone may not "feel" in love with me, then I will be dumped. That if, for any reason, I'm not perfectly meeting every one of their needs on a daily basis, then my investment in that person will be completely thrown out the window for their next passing fancy. In that way, I'm much happier just giving love to my friends and family, whose level of investment in my life has been proven. For some reason, so many people think those rules change the minute they become intimately (sexually) involved. Sorry. My ex was my family, and I couldn't throw him out any easier than I would throw out my child (if I had one),my parents, or my close friends. <P>

NB--Read your post about a friend: So what does a good relationship feel like?

gsd,<P>Really want the answer?<P>A good relationship doesn't feel like abuse. <P>It feels safe and comfortable, your port in the storm. <P>You don't feel like you're being put down every time you open your mouth. <P>You aren't "punished" for real or perceived wrongs.<P>If he/she makes a mistake, they say they're sorry. And, by the way, so do you, because the enviornment is safe to do so.<P>He/she respects you, despite your past/history.<P>I'm sure she'd say a whole bunch of other things... but that's what I've gotten from her, and also what my experience has been recently.<P>edit, edit, edit!! Most of all, a good relationship is committed, despite the pain and/or "baggage" (to use the psychobabble term) that each one brings to the relationship. I can't believe I didn't think of earlier. My friend has been remarried for six years. They have their ups and downs, of course, and she still holds a "kind of" love for her ex, who is the father of her child. But this new H has held her up in a way that her ex never, ever did. <P>Sheryl<BR> <p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited October 02, 2000).]

Sheryl,<BR>After reading what you wrote here, and gsd's thread, I think I've been deluding myself about my marriage. For so long, I had this belief that we had this great marriage that me, the worthless sl*t my ex thinks I am, went out and destroyed. Maybe it was ok to think that for awhile, because it is important to own up to my share of the problems. Infidelity is a BIG one. <P>However, looking at your list here, I see that our relationship did not really qualify in many ways. <P>"A good relationship doesn't feel like abuse."<BR>Our relationship fit this until about a year after our marriage, and increasingly got worse in this respect. <P>"It feels safe and comfortable, your port in the storm." <BR>Sometimes yes, sometimes no.<P>"You don't feel like you're being put down every time you open your mouth."<BR>Wow. This happened so often. His idea of working on our marriage was telling me all the ways I was screwed up and how everything I did was a mistake, in a nice tone of voice. <P>"You aren't "punished" for real or perceived wrongs." Punishment usually involved dregging up something from my past. Mostly things that had happened many, many years before I even met him, in order to "prove" he was superior to me.<P>"If he/she makes a mistake, they say they're sorry. And, by the way, so do you, because the enviornment is safe to do so."<BR>Only said he was sorry when he didn't have to follow through with a change in behavior. Of course, the year after my confession, all I did was say sorry. Every friggin day (NO EXAGGERATION).<P>"He/she respects you, despite your past/history."<BR>Never did really respect me, as far as I can tell. My past was something to use against me when he ran out of other ammunition. This didn't become clear to me until after we were married. <P>I'm really happy for you Sheryl, that you have found someone who loves you for who you are and respects you. None of the problems we had were insurmountable. It was just easier for my ex to believe I was a loser sl*t from hell than admit that he is/was abusive.

I'm so glad you could find some worth in my words today <B>Student</B>. <P>I'm having a rough divorce-day (legal crap, I hate it! ), and your words were a healing balm, like maybe I do have some newfound wisdom. More than ample thanks goes to my dear friend, Kim, who shared her thoughts and her heart with me as she navigated this road before me. That's the friend I'm speaking of... she has been a wonderful role model for me.<P>Hugs, Sheryl

TS,<P>I never thought you were singling me out. It was a good question, and sometimes I wonder if I use it as a defense to protect myself from pain.<P>If your anorexia cleared up after the beatings stopped, you left, etc, then it was environmental. I am talking about 20 years worth of stuff related to parental control issues. Bipolar is when the normal highs and lows are magnified. I have seen those people, they would say things such as,<BR>"You moved my book, not finding it is driving me crazy!" The exagerations are unbelievable, all black and white thinking, etc.<P>For my STBX, its like her brain did not get the last growth period, between ages 18 and 22-4, the brain goes through its final development stage, which allows thinking from black and white to multy colored outcomes.<P>I seriously think her brain did not get to that stage, or that stage was never fully completed. I think everyone has bouts of depression in their lives, such as when alot of things go wrong all at once, or unforseen accidents change them, etc.<P>But this is repetitive, pattern recognition would identify it as repetitive. BDD is Body Dismorphic Disorder. "8 yo daughter said that STBX said that STBX has the same body image illness as MIL." Well, if that isn't telling, as is her mother, doesn't eat right, has all kinds of swallowing disorders when H starts to get any kind of independence from her.<P>BPD is Borderline Personality Disorder, which is half way stuck between psychosis and neurosis. what an illness to have!<P>But what got me was the exact matches of incidents out of the book. I can remember these so well. and yet, STBX has a terrible memory, like that part of brain didn't mature, just like her mother. So that is very good proof in my mind.<P>good question, I answer them as they relate to me, or I can add personal examples to them. So please don't feel bad about asking an open ended question to the forum.<P>BTW, remmber the chick down the hall I mentioned, personality very similar to STBX, forget her, very similar personality to STBX, lot of the same issues, that's why she is divorced also, and has done therapy for years, and is now just making headway. Ick, why can't I find a normal woman for a change?<P>thl

WIFFT,<BR>I certainly don't want to downplay anything you have gone through. However, I feel incredibly sad for your wife and this other woman you work with. It sounds like the woman you work with at least is trying. Years of therapy. <P>If both of them truly are mentally ill, it is quite possibly no fault of their own. How terrible would it be to feel you had to live your whole life alone because of a disability? That is how I see true mental illness. No different than someone who was born without legs, or blind. What is even worse, is that the stigma against mental illness is still so prevalent, that many people our age just were not helped when they were young enough to make a difference. That, and they are too afraid to get the help they need now.<P>A year ago, I truly believed I was losing my mind. Still wonder. Thinking back, though, I was faced with some of the most stressful things imaginable, all at the same time.<P>Within one month, the following happened:<P>a) My ex divorced me after a year of abuse and punishment<BR>b) My mother was diagnosed with advanced breast cancer<BR>c) I wrote my Master's thesis and defended it.<P>Two months after that, I took my PhD qualifying exams. Any ONE of these things would be considered a major stressor. They all happened to me at the same time. You know, I think it is one thing I will have a very,very hard time forgiving my ex for. He divorced me less than two weeks after my mom was diagnosed, and while I was trying to finish my degree. All I can imagine is that he truly, truly wanted to destroy me, and he almost did. <P>I hate to say this, but I don't think there are really any "normal" people out there. We all have our messed up stuff. All you can ask for is a person who is honest, and keeps trying to improve. <BR>

TS,<P>I am not convinced that sudden personality changes are all that uncommon. And I doubt very much that I would be able to predict it in advance. When you add all the alcoholics, drug addicts, gambling addicts, physical and sexual abusers, people who have no interest in holding a job, and all the people who have sudden personality changes together, that amounts to a very large proportion of the population. <P>About 20 years ago, within a year and a half, both my parents died, I also wrote and defended my Master's thesis (I defended it about 2 weeks after my mother died), I moved across the country, got married, started a new job, and had a baby. That was stressful, but it was a walk in the park compared to this. <P>NB,<P>I am sorry you have had such a hard life. I am glad for your sake that you can trust again, but I am quite sure that I don't want to take the risk.

Nellie1,<BR>I agree that divorce is one of the worst things that can happen to a person and a family, besides death. With death at least, you don't have the ongoing mental games from the ex, and you probably have some good memories that have not been destroyed. The fact that so many other people treat divorce like just another "breakup" is very disturbing.<P>I don't know how to tell you to get past this. Everybody on the planet gave me all kinds of suggestions. Lots of times it actually made me mad, because it felt like they just had no clue how much pain I was in. To this day, I have a hard time accepting healing "advice" about divorce from those who have never been divorced or married for a significant period of time. <P>I cannot claim to understand even a small portion of what you are going through. I can understand that you are thoroughly exhausted and frustrated. Right now, I can't imagine committing to anyone again because I can't imagine anyone actually following through on a life-time commitment to me (for whatever reason). I am open to "love" again in my life though.<P>For a long time, I closed myself off from my friends and family, and people I would meet because I was so afraid to trust anyone. Slowly, but surely, I was able to trust a few people again. I really do hope you can find a way to trust those close to you. It is not something you can force, but will help you a great deal in ways I can't even explain.