Most of you know my story and I need some advice. My father just told me and my H that for my christmas present he is taking me and my sisters to St. Thomas. This will leave my H home with the kids and all the responsibility for them for six days. Needless to say my H is very angry about this. He does not want me to go and tells me three or four times a day. I really want to go. My sisters and I are best friends and I get along with my parents really well. I don't see a problem with me going. It's not like I planned it, it was a gift. I know this goes against the policy of joint agreement but I'm tired of his selfishness due to his depression. Is this just selfishness on my part? This really seems to have thrown a monkey wrench into everything. Any advice is welcome. I would like to hear all sides. <p>Steph

Steph,<p>Isn't it nice how life throws you these curves just when you need them?<br>Personally, I wouldn't be too happy about being the only one with the kids for 6 days. If I was off work all those days it would make it better. But if my wife got the sort of deal you're getting I think I'd tell her to go for it.<br>I don't think you're being selfish at all. Who the heck wouldn't want to go to St. Thomas, especially if you don't get to go many places?<br>Perhaps you can explain to him how much you'd like to go, that there's more to life than the daily grind. Perhaps you can get across to him that sometime or another he is going to have to give of himself. I don't know. You know him so you'll have to formulate it the best you can.<br>Then again what about some sort of reverse psychology that makes him think you're not going but shows him how selfish he's being and causes him to change his mind? But things like that can blow up in your face.<br>It's a tough one, Steph. I really hope you can come to a good solution.

Steph,<p> I think you need to go ahead with the trip. It isn't even just for your enjoyment,but also for your father. You would hate yourself if something happened to your father in the near future and you didn't go on the trip.<br> Is it possible you could try to trade off time away with your husband? Maybe offer him a trip away doing something he would enjoy after you get back? He may be afraid you will enjoy your time away too much. But I think it would do you good and give you more energy to handle your situation when you get back.<p> Aileen

Steph,<br>Since I know your situation pretty well, I think I understand your predicament. Here you are, trying extremely hard to preserve your marriage. Yet, you have given so much of yourself over the past years, you have to feel that you deserved at least this much. <br>I think you do. You think you do. Reading the posts here, others think so too. But, since your primary concern in your life now is your husband and family, this gets sticky. Before things got bad in my house (wife's affair), I would have let my wife go, happily. Now, I would have some major reservations. Since your husband has some problems with this, especially since you will be leaving the kids with him, is it possible to get the kids to stay somewhere while you are away? At least for a few days? This may take some of the pressure off of him, and he may feel better about it. First, speak to him about it. Ask if that's his primary concern. <br>Let us know what happens.

Steph, I "gave" my stay-at-home wife a 40th bday present - a week away skiing with friends while I watched the kids. I was in a depressed state then and didn't fully realize it, and I gave her crap about it before going and after. (Yes, a mistake now I realize!) I would say that your husband might be feeling a little the way I felt. My wife brought me back a beautiful ring, which is now one of my treasures - maybe if you can somehow reassure him of your love and committment, and that his watching the kids while you have some fun really means a whole lot to you - that is, if it does. He probably needs to hear that this is something that he's doing for you that you greatly appreciate.<p>My .02cents worth, Patrick

Steph<p>My h has told me for years that he would get me passes to go wherever I wanted to go whenever I wanted to go. I never took him up on it because he never told me he would keep the kids. If I even wanted to take a class, it was "I'll be there if I can." <p>Now I know why: he was trying to schedule his family life around his affair.<p>I spent nearly 15 years doing for my husband and my kids; my only social life until last March when I got a job outside the home was the grocery store.<p>I say go. But for your husband's benefit (and, of course your piece of mind) is it possible to do something with the kids? Have someone come in or have them stay with friend or neighbors? I shudder to think about what I would come home to after six days with my husband caring for my kids alone. My three might just run him off...

Thank you all for your responses. Yes I have taken into consideration that part of the problem is having to take care of the kids. I have someone to come to the house everyday and take care of them from 7 a.m. until 5 p.m. He won't even have to get them dressed in the morning. I talked to him a little more after I posted and he was bothered that I didn't care that I was going to be away from him. I told him that it didn't mean I loved him any less. I am starting to see alot of insecurity coming out in him. Tonight though I showed him that it is ok for us to do some things alone. A friend invited him to Las Vegas to see the WAC championship game. I found him a flight and made all the arrangements no matter the cost. In all his excitement he forgot that he was leaving me home, with the kids, and with alot going on this weekend. When I pointed that out he just thought about it. I hope it helps him to see. Thanks again all. <p>Steph

Steph<br>In the past, I would say NO! You can't go. What about (us) ME (actually). This was one of "our" problems. You are going to be with family and it shouldn't be a problem, in my eyes. It's your Dad & Sister-FAMILY! I would never keep my W away from her family, EVER!<br>If it was with a bunch of friends - I wouldn't go, but family.... that's a different story.<br>Is he afraid of you being "unfaithful"? People don't have to go away for a fling, maybe just across the street, maybe not even that far. <br>He has to know you need YOUR space & if a fling is what he's worried about, tell him you don't need to leave town for that. That's not even an issue. It's about you spending quality time away with family and for you to get a fresh breath. This should be time for him to realize the value of the relationship.<br>Maybe when you get back or before you go, plan a getaway for just you two. <br>I'm sorry, it's really late & I'm not thinking very well, but I wanted to reply before I crashed.<br>chance<br>ps are ya gonna bring us something back

Chance,<p>I don't think he is afraid of me being unfaithful. At least I hope its not. That would be hard to do being with my mom and dad and sisters all the time. I have been thinking about this and have come up with this. I come from a very wealthy family. He always makes very snide comments about my dads money. He doesn't come from a poor family but his dad was a big saver. They never went on trips(at all). We would take four or five a year. I think it bothers him. Maybe he wishes that he could be giving me the trip. I know that he feels that he doesn't give make enough money. I don't give him this feeling though. I am happy with what he makes. I'm able to be home with my kids and we have a house and cars and take a good trip each year and we can eat each month. I don't ask for much but I know it bothers him. Do any of you think it could be the money my dad is spending on me?

Steph -<br>I am not as familiar with your story as the others seem to be, so this may not be an issue.<p>If your family is fairly wealthy, then perhaps your husband is feeling a little left out? He may wonder if there is some reason why is father-in-law would not include him in this invitation.<p>I am often left out of plans by my monster-in-law (oops, meant mother-in-law !!) For instance, she took my sister-in-law to Europe for three weeks and wanted to also take my 8 year old daughter (which we refused). She will ask my s-i-l to come to mother-daughter functions at church or at her job. These actions of hers do not help our tenuous relationship at all!<p>Perhaps his feelings are somewhat hurt by being excluded and feeling that he is not a part of your family? Could his family watch the kids so that you could go together?<p>Does your family know that your marriage is in a precarious position right now? If your daddy knew that his gift was a strain, he would possibly be willing to include your husband.<p>Money may be a factor. Men are funny about being able to provide for their families. My H used to blow up if my mom and I went shopping and she would buy something for me. Now he is all for it!!!<p>Also, exactly when is your trip planned? Over the actual Christmas holiday? He could feel pressure from that, if so.<p>Good luck<p>Maria

Maria,<p>My dad is only taking his daughters. I also have four brothers that are not going. My SIL was invited but is pregnant and doesn't want to go. My parents do trips for the men only all the time. Water skiing for a week and camping and all that. I don't think not being included is it. But then again what do I know. I talked to him today from Las Vegas and he is not happy. He wouldn't say why. I am beginning to feel that I can't win. BTW, the trip is not until Jan. 25th. They just wanted to give us enough notice. I really think the whole reason is that he doesn't want to do the work it would take for me to go. I wonder if he wants me to be happy. Sorry down day. <p>Steph

As a funny aside, my best friend is Steph. Feels funny sometimes talking to you like this, when my actual best Steph doesn't even realize what is going on in my life! I am too confused and ashamed to let my friends and family know what is going on.<p>I do not have too much advice for you about your trip at this point. Sometimes I think men expect their wives to be primary childcare givers all of the time. I don't know if my husband has ever arranged for a babysitter, but he sure does get irritated if I havent gotten one! Maybe it is all as simple as he doesnt want to take care of the kids while you are gone. Sounds a little bit like what my husband would do (when he is at his most selfish).<p>Go on your trip. If things were not to work out with your husband, it would not be bc of this trip! And at that point, you will need your family very much.<p>One trip does not a divorce make.......<p>Maria

Maria,<p>You are right. One trip does not a divorce make but could it be the straw that broke the camels back? I run the risk of sounding as selfish as I blame him to be. To me is seems like such a fine line and I'm having a hard time staying on it. Thank you for your words. <p>Steph<p>P.S. You do know that Steph is not my real name. LOL

As a mom who is usually at home with the kids while hubby is off at work, I don't think you're being selfish. I am always the one to have to find a babysitter if we go somewhere. I have to arrange birthday parties, sleepovers, school functions, nearly everything. Dads need time too!

Steph,<p> For what it's worth I think that you shouldn't go. <p> It's one thing for one spouse to "give" the other a weekend away while he/she watches the kids, but this is one spouse's gift to another. <p> Going on a vacation without your spouse and kids is a totally different matter. Regardless of who's paying for it or who initiates it.<p> Your father has put you into a very awkward position. If you go, you're "abandoning" your H and putting your father before him. If you don't go, your father may think you're ungrateful and your sisters will probably talk about you behind your back. (Small amount of tongue-in-cheek there!)<p> You father really should have brought it up with your H FIRST. "Ran it by" him, get his "buy-in" on the idea, rather than the way he did. <p> At this point, I think that the application of the "Policy of joint agreement" must be applied. You should tell your husband that you'd like to go (if you do want to) but that unless he's TOTALLY happy with the idea, you will NOT go. He has to feel that he can say no without you pouting and holding it against him. (Personally, I think put this way, he'd be happy for you to go. As opposed to not being asked what he thought.)<p> Additionally, after you work out this problem, you really should let your father know that you and you H are a TEAM. Your H MUST come before your dad. (Just as YOU must come before his mom, dad, job, etc.) Otherwise, you and your dad are sending the message that your H is less important.<p> Tough choice, probably "Damned if you do and damned if you don't", but if you want a marriage that works and lasts, you've got to make the decision that you AND your husband agree upon.<p>That's my 2-cents. (Now you've got a dime, right?)<p>Val (The Husband)<p>Another 2-cents I added later:<br>Your parents really shouldn't give you presents that divide (physically or otherwise) you and your husband. Whether you know it or not, you dad/parents have set you up for collasal dissapointment. If you go without you and your H agreeing upon it, he'll be PO'ed. If you stay, then you'll be PO'ed. It's great that your parents are able to give great gifts like this, but they have no business putting their noses so deep into you and your husband's business. Sorry if you think that's insulting to your parents, but if you go, now your H will be mad at THEM as well as you!. I say again, decline the offer, (unless you talk with H and can "jointly agree") thank Mom & Dad profusely, and explain that presents like this are BAD for your marriage.<p> Now, if the offer was to take You, your H and kids (or M&D watch the kids....) Then, snap it up and don't look back!<p>Sorry for being so opinionated. Please tell us what you do and how it works!<p>V<p>[This message has been edited by V (edited 12-10-98).]

steph,<p>go for it !! Mya wife has gone away on a few extended weekends over the last 10 years of or mariage, & i love the bounce back to my bachelor days (except I get to play with the two kids around the clock, & be a little kid myself, with them). Obviously, it's not completely bachelor days, but I don't have to worry or be responsible to W for a few days & it's a vacation for both of us. & it builds an appreciation for MOM from the kids & me , as to what she has to do all day while I'm at work.<br>nick

Steph,<p>As much a fan as I am of tropical locations, and as often as I've 'let' my wife go on trips (plenty), I agree with Val.<p>A perfectly good alternative is for your folks to give you that money, you and your husband kick in for the rest to get yourselves to St. Thomas (just the two of you), and Grandpa and Grandma take care of the kids.<p>Remember: the Policy of Joint Agreement is only between you and your husband. Your parents don't count.<p>And I'm sure that Steve Harley would enthuastically support the above plan. If your parents would, that'd REALLY be a great present!

K and Val,<p>Thank you so much for your opinions. I have printed out this section and will go over it with my H tonight at therapy. It is such a hot topic that we can not be alone when we discuss it. Funny thing is that except for this things do seem to be improving. We even had a good discussion this morning about some other things and neither of us got angry. I do appreciate you candidness and will take it all into consideration. Thanks again. <p>Steph (remembering to smile more )

Don't go.<p>By going, you show him that your family is more important to you than he is. If he's insecure (which it sounds like), it will increase the insecurity.<p>Always remember the policy of joint agreement. Try talking with him and see if a compromise can be made. If it can't and if he isn't enthusiastic about it, don't go unless you want to prove that he's not the most important person in your life (which he should be).

Am curious to see what happened at therapy last night!!<p>I am glad that things are seeming better at your house (except for trip issue). They have been improving at my house as well, although they could not have gotten much worse. We have gone two days without a major fight. When we talk we are mostly rational, although he still comes out with some zingers that make me wonder does he really love me like he says he does.<p>We are making an effort to listen to each other and be empathetic to the other.<p>My only problem with the other suggestions for the policy of Joint Agreement: how can both of you enthusiastically agree if you really do want to go? I think that if your dad has taken all of the family men on trips alone together that he should be more understanding of a girl-only trip. I feel that if you say you are enthusiastically agreeing not to go, than you are hiding your true feelings which is detrimental to your marriage as well.<p>Just thoughts. <p>Maria