Nellie,<P>I can really feel your anger and deperation. Life can certainly be very cruel. I just spent all weekend moving the kids and I out of the house we all loved and worked so hard for to a rental. Not a bad house but it isn't home. I also am this week turning my car in and hoping they give me some mercy as I can't afford to pay for it anymore. <BR>I will have to drive my daughters car for awhile. My H on the other hand moved him and his girlfriend and her three kids into our house. He also still has his 1997 dodge ram truck. So no alot of us have to make sacrifices. I work 50 hrs a week at the nursing home plus I do dog grooming on my spare time. I get only 400 a month from my H right now. It buys some groceries but not alot else. Have you considered moving? Do you have equity in the house you are in now?<BR>You need some piece of mind and is the house you are in really worth all you spend on it?<P>Even though I have just done the hardest thing I have ever had to do and that was move from our home I know that tomorrow is another day and life is what you make of it. I don't mean to come down on you. You have always been a supportive person to me. I just don't like to see anyone feel the way you are feeling.<P>Jill

Nellie,<P>I have always liked your responses, the quick and succinct way you get to the heart of the matter. True, they have a tendendency to be very pessimistic. But I can certainly understand why. <P>In your own case, it seems to me you aren't being very objective. I wish you did have faith in a more powerful being. That is probably the single biggest comfort many of us here have, dealing with the unfair hand we got dealt. I see your frustration consuming you. Like I said, eating you alive.<P>I think of course, that your husband should feel the responsibility toward his children, as far as making sure he provides the financial support. But he isn't. You got a raw deal. We disagree however, about the state's responsibility. They can't force him to be a good father - and if your attorney is correct, that this is the best deal you can get, well, that's it. Welfare is certainly not a good answer, nor do I think, a correct one for your future. <P>I know you don't think your older children should be postponing college, but perhaps you are not setting your priorities in the best order? So they graduate at 23 instead of 22? Would that really be so horrible?<P>Nellie, I see your two biggest priorities as: your getting back into the workforce fulltime, with health benefits, a retirement plan, and raises; and, caring for your preschooler. You aren't going to get a lick of help from your husband. If there isn't someone you can trust to care for the children, why can't your older children help out, and care for the little one why you are working to get a lucrative position?<P>Nellie, it isn't just the children your husband has hurt - it is you, too. You need to prepare for your financial future. Even if he suddenly got a great job, and was delivering the child support as he should, that is only going to last a few more years. <P>You need to be preparing for sending all your kids to college Nellie, and you aren't going to get a lick of help from him. I went through that with my x, but in this state, his financial responsibility stops at 18. I have accepted that, and am planning for it on my own. <P>I guess I see that you are dwelling so much on the immediate, you aren't seeing "the big picture." Your children are a blessing, Nellie. You just seem so angry, and adamant, that you are hurting your health. And I think that is just about the only thing that could make your situation worse. <P>This is only my opinion, I know I don't know all the facts, but think about options you do have, rather than counting on the husband who failed you.<P><BR> <P>

Nellie,<P>I can't read through all your replies so forgive me if I repeat what someone else has.<P>I can relate totally to what you are saying and I feel like a kid for saying this, but "ITS NOT FAIR!".<P>I think the justice system needs to have a fair treatment for both parties AND take morals into this. I'm sorry but people who act totally viscious about the divorce need to have something to deter this behavior.<P>Haven't seen you on in a while, hope your OK, Dana<BR>

crazy or what,<P>I have no desire to stay in the house we currently own. I plan to move, but I can't rent anything within about 50 miles of here because the rents are so high. And no, in case anyone is wondering, I can't fit 4-6 kids into a two bedroom apartment (which by the way would be close to $1000 a month anyway). I am looking for a job somewhere where the rents are a lot less, because I would be better off even if the pay were less. I can't just quit my job and move somewhere cheaper, because then I would have even less money, and I can't afford to commute 50 miles each way because my car wouldn't hold out. <P>honey.west,<P>My first priority is caring for my children, followed closely by their education. My older kids are paying for almost their entire education this year by themselves, between what they earned and loans. Why would I expect them to drop out? And then the oldest wouldn't have health insurance. <P>In my state, if either my H or I have insurance available through employers, we are required to provide it for the other forever and for the kids, basically splitting the cost. <P>I'm not quite sure what you mean by the child support only being a few more years - my preschooler won't be 18 for 14 years, and in this state my H will be required to continue to pay child support through college. That's a lot of years. I'll be almost 65 when she graduates. <P>I figured out that working full-time would not net me much more than working part-time, after accounting for even $7000 a year in daycare, and in addition other costs. One of my co-workers, with one preschooler and one in school, has been spending $18,000 in daycare every year!<P>DanaB,<P>I agree. Thanks for your support.<BR>

Oh Nellie,<P>How is your H living without a job? How's he paying HIS bills? That might be something to investigate.<P>As always, I'm here to say that I'm worried about you. Every time I "go here" with you, I sense you dismiss it. <P>You don't realize that I was WHERE YOU ARE for many years. David's affairs of the 80's devistated me, and although he was home and somewhat repentant, he never told me the truth about the depth of the affairs until 13 years later, when I had my ill-fated, very stupid, thankfully very short, affair. And you know what? The bitterness helped to lead me there. You may say it would NEVER happen to you. Fair enough. I said the same. Until 13 years later, when the pain of betrayal and anger finally spun me into a frenzied ball of stupidity. I gained a boatload of weight, had horrid health problems, and truly, a bit of a breakdown (not an excuse, I take full responsibility for my actions, but truly, I was, as they say, in a fog)...<P>Nellie, I'm afraid for you. You have to be there for your kids because their father is not. Please take care! <P>

Hey, I know just what you are talking about--it stinks.<P>I gave up my career (military) to go with my husband. Mid-affair (and I didn't know about it at the time) he asked me to get out and come with him. I had no second thoughts, I loved him and I wanted to be with him. I wanted to be a mom to my kid for the first time--I had spent my child's babyhood deployed worldwide and it broke my heart. My kid was having a lot of problems because of the absence of his father (gee, I wonder why?) and because of my pending orders to Korea. I was in and out of developmental pediatrics with him because they could not figure out what his problem was--he was acting really weird and they suspected autism--it was just an extreme case of emotional turmoil mixed with hyperactivity. So I had a need to get out of the army, anyways. I had to take a chapter from the army--at the encouragement of my CO and 1SG and the chaplain and everyone--to do this. Still, I had no second thoughts, even though I loved my career and, were I single, the army would have been my life. I loved it second only to my family. In my heart, I will always be "Sergeant."<P>When it was a done deal and the ink was dry, I was in Japan as a stay at home mom and loving it. That's when I found out about his girlfriend.<P>Okay, a lot has happened between that and this. (No sense re-hashing all of this.) I have spent the last month in a frenzy, sick over how I would care for my children (my child I have with my husband and my children from my first marriage, who I do not have custody of because of my military service.) Were I by myself, it would be a different story. I would go straight back into the army, or if not, I would be content to get a studio apartment, go back to college with my GI bill, work at McD's, go honkeytonkin and have a great time. But the little guys I love depend on me, so I must do what I have to do.<P>I am living with my parents--not a good situation. I did apply for low-cost housing, but the waiting list is sooooo long. (Look into this, Nelli--you could get a nice, big house for all you children, rent based upon your income.) I did apply for daycare assistance (do they have this in your state, Nelli?) and I have looked into getting WIC checks (not foodstamps, but milk, peanut butter, cereal, eggs, and cheese are provided if you are eligible, and it sounds like you are, this is not like foostamps.)<P>I was patient and held out to get a decent paying job--it sucks bigtime, it's graveyard shift and I make semicondictors--nothing to mess with, break one, and you're canned, but I know that I have to do it until something in life changes. I am grateful for this opportunity.<P>This country helps those who need it, and who helps themselves. I also thank God that I am an American, and have the support that I need to feed my kids until I can get on my feet. Like my 1SG told me as I got out of the service, I have worked hard to defend a country that gives it's people what they need, and I should have faith in it.<P>You should never feel alone, Nelli, because you are not. Please look hard for your blessings and opportunities. I am glad that you are reading these posts and asking help of these folks.<P>Most of all, do not feel bad about asking for help. Please, do ask, for the sake of your kids. They do not need any more pain than they have gotten, so make sure that they have what they need and deserve.

My most sincere apologies for my previous posts on this thread Nellie.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Nellie, I guess I didn't relize that where u live its so expensive. That is where I'm lucky. I live in a very small town and we all kinda take care of eachother. There must be some alternatives though for you? I know moving with all of those kids is hard. You mentioned that you lived in a different town before with people that cared for you and where its alot cheaper. Nobody is ever truely stuck and we all have difficult decisions to make. I don't envy you one bit and I hope you don't think I'm being uncaring. I'm just a outspoken person. <P>I wish only happiness and piece of mind for you.<P>Jill

Nellie,<BR>Sorry to hear things are still going so tough for you.<P>I can understand what you are going through and to an extent did too especially when it comes to my x and her visiting the kids.<P>I am a little worried about finances especially at year end when taxes and home owners insurance is due. Stupid me, bought this house about 8 yrs ago thinking that two of us would be paying for it all! <P>My advice is to forget about your h and how he is relating to your kids. It is his problem and there is nothing you can do about it. All your fighting/nagging/pleading/etc will not work. He is tied up in his own life and you and the kids aren't important in it.<P>Thats why you need to concentrate on you and the kids on everything. I never even take my x into consideration anymore. I act as if she were dead. I no longer worry about her visiting/taking the kids. If she does, then thats great for them and gravy for me. If she doesn't that's her loss.<P>By continuing to wait for the state or your h to help you out, you will only drive yourself crazy.<P>I'm not advocating quiting, but just take yourself out of the process. Kick your L in the a$$ and get him moving on obtaining the CS you are due, but you must separate yourself emotionally.<P>You mentioned something about moving from an area where you had lots of support, any chance moving back there?<P>My x too has money for everything but the kids. She can't afford things for them but she can buy her stupid little dog a fence(oops, bad feelings arising!) for its yard.<P><BR>Hang in there Nellie. God will bless you.<P>Bob

Why is it that sometimes when you hit "Post Reply" the thread is still visible and sometimes it's not. Does anyone know?<P>new_beginning,<P>Thank you for your concern. I'm sure David's affairs must have been devastating for you. <P>My H is probably getting deeper in debt, but he doesn't have to worry about keeping a roof over his head. I doubt if his "landlord" (AKA the OW) would evict him for nonpayment. <P>crazy or what,<P>Unfortunately, maybe I wasn't clear about where I used to live, where I had a support system. That town is, unfortunately, even more expensive than where I live now. <P>I would have to move quite a ways away to find cheaper housing. Unfortunately, I need a job out there before I can give up my current one.

Bernzini,<P>My first question was how did you find daycare for your child in the night - but then I realized that probably your parents are there.<P>My current job is very flexible, but I don't know how I would ever work at a rigid one. Between having to take off at least 5 days per year for each of my 3 youngest when they are sick, teacher conferences, routine doctor appts, school functions, IEP team meetings, medical and educational evaluations for my kids with special needs, etc, I don't know how I could ever work full time at a rigid job. <P>Chris,<P>OK. I'm just trying to do what I can.<P>RWD,<P>My kids, especially my son, are hurt so badly by their father not wanting to see much of them. I can assure you that I haven't fought or begged him at all to see more of them. The kids have begged him, too, though, on several occasions.<P>

Nellie, Ever thought of Minnesota? Where I live housing is pretty cheap. The towns around here are very small but nice. excellent schools! We have a shortage of workers. In Mn you get to take up to 8 hrs a year off for school functions or meetings its the law. They offer daycare assistance the list goes on and on. I don't know where you live but this is just a suggestion.<P>Jill

Yes, thank God that my parents are here. I did not know how well this would work out because my mom still works fulltime and my dad is quite elderly--and my son is a pill.<P>For some reason, he plays me like a fiddle, but he is quite good for them. He eats his dinner, takes a bath, and then goes right to bed. For me, he would stay up all night screeching like a banshee just because I don't have the energy to put him in his place. But, thank goodness, he is good for my parents.<P>I have been in that situation where I had to take days off for sick kids or had to work off hours (the army is a 24/7 job--sometimes I had to jump through my butt to find care for my son.) I know it is tough. Some of my friends were lucky enough to have a good network of friends that would watch children for them, trade off care. It worked out well. I am kind of shy, so I never really got a good network of friends to help out until the end of my enlistment--myself and a single dad and my unit traded babysitting, and it worked great. Wish that would have been the case all along.<P>Is this a possiblity for you? Do you know other single moms or dads in your situation? Maybe you could work something out--you never know. You could go to a Parents Without Partner's Meeting and see if you could make some friends, if you don't know any now that could help you. A person with friends is never a poor person.<P>If I were you, I would go down to your State Health and Welfare and talk to a counselor about some of your options. There is no shame in it--you have paid taxes, too, now haven't you? You are entitled to it, and you have no choice when the guy that helped you bring children into the world isn't pulling his share of the weight.<P>They can counsel you, and help intervene, in that situation. They can communicate with him to get him to help you with your kids. They can also tell you what kinds of programs there are for parents that are left alone.<P>I was unhappy to do this too, believe me, and luckily, I really didn't need help. My job came through for me and I am able to stay with my parents (they are grouchy about it and so am I--only because my dad has to watch tv at the highest possible decible and my kid makes a mess) but they have kindly have opened their home to me until I get on my feet. But had I not, I feel that as a person who has honestly worked all of my adult life and have contributed as much as I could, I would not feel too terrible for asking for help in order to get onto my feet. <P>That is what these services are there for.

crazy or what,<P>Unfortunately, it is against the law to move the kids out of state unless I have the court's or my H's written permission - which I doubt very much he'd give. Other than that, Minnesota is sounding pretty good..<P>Bernzini,<P>No, I don't know any single parents nearby. Not one. All of my kids friends' parents are married, all of my friends are married. <P>My friends certainly are willing to help in an emergency, but one of them in particular has told me that she doesn't want to watch the kids because my H should be doing it. I'm sure she'd take them in a dire emergency, but people somehow expect me to be able to force my H to do what he should be doing. My parents have been dead for 21 years.<P>I do get WIC, BTW, though my child soon will be too old.

Nellie1,<P>What would happen if you "opted out" and like... had to spend 6 weeks in a mental hospital, treatment center, jail or whatever? Would your X step up to the plate or would the kids be put into foster care situations?<P>The Betrayers are not the ones who are better off! Not unless they are the non-custodial parent, that is! And of course, guess who is less responsible most of the time?<P>So unless you are willing to somehow give your XH custody, you are well and truly stuck. So, bloom where you are planted. Become a saint. When life gives you lemons, make lemonade and all the other tired old saws. Sorry, Nellie. This isn't a matter of deserving anything. I will pray for you in any case.

Well Nellie talk to your lawyer about your options. If your H isn't paying support and you arn't able to pay for what you have then its time to go back to court and ask for the right to move. Either that will wake your H up some or he will lose contact with the kids. People move from one state to another all of the time. It doesn't have to be Minnesota but there has to be better areas to live then the one you are in. I pay 300.00 a month for a nice 4 bedroom house with a yard and a garage. <BR>Talk to family services they maybe able to help you find a nice home that is cheaper. You have so many options you just have to look for them. <P>Jill

Karenna,<P>Somehow I don't think it is worth getting arrested just to see if my H would take care of the kids...<P>Unfortunately, I think "becoming a saint" is a bit beyond my capabilities.<P>crazy or what,<P>My H is paying support, based on his unemployment income, which isn't much. I think I would have to have a job lined up before the courts would even consider letting me move out of state.