Some of you may know that my W and 4 y.o. D moved out of house on 10/1. She removed ALMOST all her clothing.<P>Seems she left behind an "outdoorsy" type LL BEAN faded lined green denim trench coat that used to be one of her favorites. Also a ski jacket that I bought her in Tahoe in 1989. I guess she figures that these "styles" don't fit her new "glamorous" look.<P>Also, I was going through a cupboard where we keep sandwich bags and the like. Conveniently placed where I would find them were a canvas "ditty" bag from Harrah's Atlantic City and a shopping bag from Tiffany & Co. I guess these were things she picked up while with OM this past summer.<P>Why does she have to rub my nose in it?<P>Does anyone else have a "pitbull" like this?<P>I'd love to here other "cruel" tales so I know I'm not alone.<P>Jay

Here is one - not that I think she is trying to be cruel, rather it shows you how irrational she is:<P>She emailed me last week to tell me she signed divorce complaint and that I should be getting something in the mail soon.<P>That was the first sentence of the email. After that, she goes on to tell me how her family is making some kind of xmas gift for their aunt and she wanted me to go up into our attic, sort through all the boxes and get down all her xmas ornaments. Then take them over to her parents house or to call them and ask them to pick them up.<P>THEN she asks when she can have someone pick up more furniture from the house! <P>Yes they are material things and yes I could not care less. BUT, the tone of her email was like "OK I am divorcing you, you shouldn't be upset because you knew it was coming and oh by the way, do this and that for me".<P>Unbelievable....

OW, Miss Kitty, was a smoker. She had that 3-pack-a-day voice, she sounded like a witch. Unbelievable, my husband hated cigarettes. Hubby set up our new house in Japan by himself, and when I got there, there was this cheap, dumb looking ash-tray in the china cabinent, displayed like a trophy. It was a panda-bear with a hole in the top of it's head where you put the cigarette. It was full of cigarette ashes, and I thought it was incredibly ugly--I couldn't figure out why it was in there, with cigarette ashes in it, until the day I put two and two together. (My 5 year son smashed it accidently, oh,gosh, so sorry.) I guess these things are of sentimental value, little artifacts of the WS lone treasure hunt expedition, and of course, these artifacts must be put on display for the enjoyment of all.

During one of our reconciliation attempts, we went on a date where we went shopping for home accessories, had a nice dinner, and drinks after and came home and made passionate love practically in the doorway. I found out the next day she was still in contact with om and when I brought this up to our counselor, she told me that didn't I notice that she couldn't look me in the eye while we were out and that after a couple a drinks she could have sex with anybody.

SoTired2000,<P>Incredible...<BR>...your W and my W must be reading off the same page of the "WS Bible of Selfishness"...<P>...same story... virtually... about xmas ornaments.<P>My W also took half of the silverware when she moved out...<BR>...and during the settlement agreement... said she'd like the other half (??? why didn't she take the whole thing when she left?)<P>W asked for the "exercise bike"... but wouldn't take it with her when she dropped off the kids 2 weeks ago (when the van was completely empty!)<P>W put so much stuff on her "demand sheet" of things that weren't even ours...<BR>...we were keeping items for our "ethnic heritage club"...<P>Clearly...<BR>...selfish and materialistic!<P>Oh well...<P> <P>Jim

My wife spent a lot of her money decorating the house while my money went toward the bills (mortgage, utilities, etc..)she helped with some bills too, but it was a very small amount. She moved out and took most, not all, of the decorating items she had purchased to make our house look like a magazine. She also took 2 completely filled closets of her clothes, which had been paid for in part, w/o my knowledge on one of my credit cards. Then she had the audacity to think that she was still entitled to half the equity in the house which she would relinquish if I would take over the responsibility of payment on that credit card.<P>And too, she acted like it was no big deal. Just here, I’m moving out and can’t afford this anymore so here’s the bill for $$$$<P>It doesn’t work that way, Dear. Good thing my attorney agreed with me.<BR>

I guess I'm in a little bit different boat, 'cause my STBX is really giving away the farm. She wants 40% equity in the house with 5 years to pay and 1/2 child care & that's it.<P>She keeps her 401k's & me mine. I get my car & truck & she gets her car. She gets what she's already taken (bed, futon & kitchenette) The kayak & the new dining room set. The rest is mine.<P>She's going to let me borrow the car to go on a ski trip (awd & a ski rack) & I grant her rights to the truck when she needs it.<P>Joint custody & she agrees to take son whenever I need to travel.<P>Let's face it. I'm a nice guy (all Jayhawks are). She abandoned me. No abuse, just the "I'm not...." speech & reasonable evidence of an affair. (hers) Is she really just cutting her losses & running off with the OM & making this easy & "amicable" for me, or to make her look like a good person, trapped in a loveless marriage, trying to do the right thing?<P>She's throwing away an unbelievable future for some schmuck who said all the right things when I was travelling. I'm amazed.<P><BR>God, where are the foglights when you need them!!!!!<P><P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again

I'm lucky in regards to the divorce settlment too.<BR>All the x took was our extra bedroom furniture, her clothes, our good silverware(probably only used it a dozen times), and a picture we got for our wedding(still not sure why she took that!)<P>I talked her down on the amount of my retirement as it was doing bad at the time and the part she attached to is locked up for 3 more years and is dying fast so there might be nothing left in 3 yrs. I'm glad I got my part out. She also settled for less than half the house based on a figure I thought up. I was only off about $10000.

In the big scope of things, our split was actually very fair and maybe even more in my favor. <P>I'm just a little disappointed that it was so easy for her to just uproot and walk away.

Jayhawk,<P>That's exactly it. I spoke with her last night about settlement issues and homework. She's not cold or unfeeling about me, but it seems like she threw a switch on the relationship & changed it from a loving marriage into a platonic friendship (poof). I know it was more complicated for her than that, but I'm astounded at all she's throwing away. That fog has got to be awfully thick...<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again<p>[This message has been edited by c00ker (edited November 02, 2000).]

I read somewhere that the reason it is so easy for the WS to "throw the switch" on the relationship is because in their mind the relationship has long been over. For us BS, it is all so new and confusing and we are fighting to hang on. The WS sees this as too little, too late and it angers them that we are doing this now, when we should have done "it" before.<P>Of course, most of us never knew what the "it" was that needed changing until WS was out the door!

RWD,<P>I agree with that theory as well.<P>It makes sense anyway.

I have only one comment to make here. Speaking as a member of the female portion of the species, I am embarrassed at the way these women are behaving. I realize there are hurt feelings all over the place, but where is civility and even a modicum of compassion for someone who, at one time, you loved? <P>Many of you know my story a little bit. My H has been mean to me and hurt me in many ways, but I'm sure this is just as awful for him, in his own way. I can't imagine doing to him what some of the women here have done to you all. It's shameful. Even if he is a total *ss to me, I still see him as my kids' dad and a damn fine man. He just drove me nuts. <P>I'd guess that they are trying to hurt you the same way that they feel you hurt them, or something. But as a representative of the female end of things, I am embarrassed. <P>CJ

FaithfulWife,<P>No offense meant here, but ever since my wife left, I seem to be tuned-in to other conversations that are about similar situations. Many of these conversations are among women and it seems like a sort of "pack" mentality. Like the phrase "...a women scorned..." taken to a whole new level. <BR>And it seems like they fire each other up into a tizzy. Now in some cases I agree that the husband was a jerk and deserves what he gets, but too often the husband was a good, decent honorable person - it is just that these women don't know who the husband was and are only listening to the wife's (their friend's) side of the story.<P>I got some first hand experience with this when my wife would tell me - "well she said I should have done this" or "when I told her what you did, she said....." and on and on. <BR>From the guys I know that are divorced, they all say to be careful (all of them say it), that once she gets around other women, she is going to "turn" on me. And what may be a mature parting of the ways, will get to be a hair raising break-up. (I hope and pray it doesn't, but unfortunately I already see some signs of it).<P>Now in defense of the female population here, I am sure this goes on in reverse. But unfortunately, I can only go by my own experiences.

SoTired2000,<P>I am saddened to say that I have seen the same thing. I know I strongly believe that in a divorce situation, BOTH parties did things that contribute. But as a woman, I am embarrassed at the way I see so many women rip into their X's. And I mean tear the poor guy to shreads. It's just plain vicious, and I frankly I think it is inexcusable.<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

You knew I would be back <P>When all of this started to happen with us, the very first thing a friend of mine at work asked was, "who are your wife's friends at work?" As it turns out, she has 3 close friends at work:<BR>1. Recently divorced against her will (very bitter toward men)<BR>2. Married with small child, struggling financially and decided to stay at home to care for the child and save child care money<BR>3. Single, attractive, dating female, footloose and fancy free<P>Now I ask you, which sounds like the most appealing option here? Would it surprise you that #3 was also the one who helped in her apartment search?<P>Friends can be very influential on a person's decision making process, especially when they are confused or upset. But if a person isn't strong enough to make their own decisions and can be swayed into major life changes, then it's a very sad happening.<P>I'm not saying the friends caused our divorce, but I have no doubt in their role.

Yup, and too often, friends will be "supportive" of what a person is doing rather than be brave and tell them to their face that they are behaving terribly. <P>What would you give for true friends who would say, "Stop being b*tchy and make it work. You are behaving badly!"<P>TheStudent gets a little carried away, but I think I wonder the same things sometimes. Where did the people go who are of high moral character?<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Jayhawk,<P>Oh man are you onto it. My STBX's new best friend is finishing marriage <B>#3</B>. She's the one who helped her move. It seems like all her "new" friends are products of failed marriages.<P><P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again

This is SOOOO interesting!!<P>As you know, the way I found out about my husband's affair is that I found his ICQ files on the PC. During the course of his romance with Miss Kitty, she constantly refers to her two best friends, J and D, who were both "miserable with marriage" and who were both seeing guys on the side. Miss felt that she needed to get with the groove and do the same, I guess. Miss Kitty and her friends covered for each other while they were out on dates. In fact, J was supposed to, and failed in her mission, to come up with a good story for Miss Kitty's husband the first weekend the skank spent with my husband at Motel 6. Oh oh.<P>Miss Kitty gushes "Oh, J thinks you are sooo gorgeous, Nanouscka! She's so jealous of me." And then later on "When can I start telling people about us, Nanouscka?" Stupid. Reminds me of kids showing off their pokemon cards or something. I have a 5-year-old who does that.

Just to chime in on the "girlfriend" issue. My W's closest confidant was a Russian immigrant with whom she worked in a hospital lab. She and her husband and two boys came to the U.S. about 12 years ago. The wife worked while the husband went to medical school. As soon as he became a doctor, he dumped her for another woman. I knew this woman through W and we often all socialized together. I felt badly for her raising the two boys on her own.<P>Anyway, this woman (girlfriend and confidant of W) knew thoroughly of my W's affair. During the early stages of our therapy, W suggested I call her because she "is good to talk to." This woman basically told me that my W was out the door before my W did.<P>The moral of the story, I believe the girlfriend was living out the revenge against her husband through my W. This woman, whom I was friends with, and felt so sorry for and helped out by having her boys over from time to time. I may be wrong, but how could a betrayed go along with W instead of saying, "you jerk, look at me!! Do what ever it takes to stay married!!"