TS,<P>First I'll admit I didn't read all the posts and replies as they tend to be repetitive in nature. So if I missed a key word or sentence somewhere please forgive.<P>A couple of questions have come to mind and I'd like to throw them out for thought. Not trying to "force" anything on you, just food for thought.<P>Your original post was, "Is there a statue of limitations?" By far and away the reponce has been a resounding NO. And yet you continue to try and get people to see it from your point of view. Do you wonder why?<P>Is it just possible that you already (deep down in the place your afraid to look.) know what the right answer is and you don't want to accept it?<P>Lying, either actively or by ommision, is something that we all know is fundementally wrong. Like it or not there is that little voice that won't quit because it knows right from wrong even if we refuse to hear it. Those of us with a religious bent would say God put that voice there for a good reason. To lead us on the right path when we have doubts.<P>I hate to say it but the fight you face isn't about what is right or wrong, you already know the answer. The internal fight your having is about already knowing what the right thing is and finding the courage to deal with it.<P>With all my heart I hope you find the courage to deal with it and do what you already know to be the right thing.

Country Guy,<P>I found the courage to deal with what I did wrong long ago. I just refuse to be forced to "deal with it" the way some people think I should in the future. It seems that most people here believe that I should tell someone new and have it hang over my head the rest of my life. <P>You are right. I would have a very hard time lying. I also believe that lying by omission is a lie. Since everyone believes that living this down is apparently not possible for someone like me, I HAVE made a decision. Since all of you want to believe your motives for knowing are benevolent (which I will never believe) I have made a decision.<P>My decision is not to lie, not to omit, not to re-marry, and perhaps never to have sex again if that is what it comes to. I believe that anyone who requires this information in order to love me---has no love for me. Why would anyone who truly loves me require I re-live this hell everyday with them? Why would anyone who says they truly love me require that I bring the memory of this ugliness into the present and future always? <P>I can accept that you believe your motives are honorable and I can't be mad at all of you for thinking that. What I can't do is believe any of you give a rat's *ss about me. Deep down in the depths of your souls, you are all guilty of secretly wishing I suffer this forever because that is what you wish for your exs. However, since you all did not make the unfortunate mistake if having sex outside your marriage, you've convinced yourself that your every motive is pure and that you are above being selfish and mercinary in your desire for "knowledge".<P>None of you have done anything you consider so horrible, that to revisit it and keep it fresh in the memory of anyone you become intimate with will rip your soul apart. To sit here and tell me that I have to <BR>do that is something I consider almost....evil. <P>Go ahead and keep your "total honesty". Go ahead and convince yourself that your desire for it actually "helps" another person. <P>One way or another, I will keep this "secret" till the day I die if it protects me from self-serving people with a hidden agenda to punish. <P><p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited November 05, 2000).]

<BR>"None of you have done anything you consider so horrible, that to revisit it and keep it<BR> fresh in the memory of anyone you become intimate with will rip your soul apart. To sit<BR> here and tell me that I have to <BR> do that is something I consider almost....evil." <P><BR>I don't think you have to tell anyone you don't want to but there is something you do have to do and that is forgive yourself.<BR>I haven't done a lot of reading here but the feeling I get is that sometimes people don't agree with what you have to say but they respect you....your thoughts, what you've gone through, and how you've dealt with it. You're a human being. We all make our mistakes....granted having an affair is quite a large one...but it seems your X has made you feel like the scum of the earth and ground your self esteem down there, too. <BR>Don't you think, at least in theory, any relationship you would consider entering into long term should be based on honesty? My thoughts are, that if my NOW ACTIONS don't tell someone I would never do this again and if they hold a mistake I made in the past against me then maybe they can't love unconditionally enough for me to allow myself to be vulnerable to them. There are no excuses for someone to have an affair but there are plenty of reasons. <BR>Allow yourself to be human, learn from your mistakes...I know you already have.... and then see if telling someone about your past would seem so soul destroying.<p>[This message has been edited by Alizarin (edited November 05, 2000).]

As JL said in an earlier post, She doesn't want anybody opionions. All she wants to do is bash everybody to make herself feel better. She is determined to play the self-righteous victim. As along as she plays that role no man will ever get involved with her anyway so all this discusison is really meaningless.<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by TMD (edited November 05, 2000).]

TA,<P>You are so wrong/guilty/confussed I don't think you can see when people do try to offer help or give you things to think over.<P>Let's set some things straight.<P>You said you don't think anyone here gives a rats a**. So why come back here to read what they have to say? Heck, if I really thought no one cared I wouldn't be here. Why are you?<P>Can you answer that question honestly? If not to this group, then at least to yourself.<P>Next you said that the people here haven't done the things you have so they are not sympathetic. All I can say is you need to quit "boo hooing" and read some of the other posts here. What in the world gives you the idea you have cornered the market on cheating and guilt?<P>And if you don't believe you have, then why aren't you willing to really hear what is being said by the folks that have lived through it?<P>Deciding to hide from love, romance and sex is one option. The other is honesty and dealing with your guilt with the idea that you want a better life in the future. Like I said, no one is forcing you and no one can screw up your life as well as you can.<P>Oh, and about carrying the guilt for the rest of your life, get used to it. I've never "cheated" on my W but I have done a number of "horrible" things in my life I am not proud of. I carry the guilt of those actions everyday and that guilt is one of the things that keeps me from doing them again. Again, it's part of that little voice that knows right from wrong.<P>And yes, my W knew all about them BEFORE we married, she understood what caused or lead up to them, she knew how to help me avoid simular situations, and above all she trusted that I wouldn't allow them to ever happen again.<P>This trust was in no small part a direct refection of my trusting her with this "knowledge", and my honesty in giving it to her. Was I afraid of giving it to her? Absolutely! Now ask me if I think was the right thing to do. (Hint YES!!!)<P>You say you have already handled the guilt, pure horse hockey. If it was handled you wouldn't be asking yourself or others how to proceed. If something is a non-issue you don't spend this kind of time and effort on it. Ergo, it isn't handled, plain and simple.<P>Reading between the lines of your many posts/replies I see a person that is deeply troubled by their past. You are seeking an ally in your beliefs, even when you don't believe it yourself. The very question you started this post with indicates your need for an ally. I don't think your going to find one here. Far to many of us have been there and done that.<P>Last but not least, when someone tells me they don't trust "people" every red flag I have goes up and says, "this is a person that expects the worst out of everyone." This persons view of what trust is has become so warped that I would be foolish to trust them. Bottom line, they don't know the real meaning of trust, doesn't allow it to a part of their life, and I can only expect the very same from them.<P>Where does all of that leave you? Well you can continue with the belief that you are the first human to ever be in this situation so no one knows anything about the subject except you. You can continue to believe that all the folks here, every person that ever wrote a book on the subject, and every practicing counseling professional is wrong and you are right. Or you can decide to do something positive and listen/learn from others.<P>It's all your choice. And it's not so much a choice upon what you actualy decide to do so much as it's a choice to become a healthy, happy, and honest human being. And that TS, requires an admission there is something wrong, that you have internal conflicts, and a resolve to do something positive about it.<BR>

Country guy,<BR>You make a good point. I probably did know what the answer to my question would be. You are right that I don't trust a man I could be in an intimate relationship with to use this information wisely. The other half of the equation is that I find it impossible to "love" a man who knows this about me. Kind of a Catch-22.<P>I'm not claiming to have recovered from my guilt. I said I had the courage to do what was right long ago, and that was confessing to my H and doing whatever I could to save my marriage. I know very well that I will live with this guilt the rest of my life. Having it live in the memory of a new man will not end that guilt, it will only serve to "brand" me as a cheater to yet ANOTHER person. I know that you don't understand why this would make it much more likely for me to repeat this behavior. <P>I'm happy for you that telling your wife made you feel better and brought you closer. If I believed that could be true in my case I would not be having this conflict.<P>I have been argumentative, and like I said, I accept that you all have tried to help. Noone can really help me but me. Only I can decide how I'm going to handle this information in the future. <P>To all,<BR>I'm really, really sorry everyone. Maybe coming here isn't healthy for me. You know, there are days when I feel very,very lonely and I think "how much longer do I need to feel this way?" That is when I start bargaining with myself. That is when I start asking myself what I can do to make myself feel "safe". Then I realize that I will never feel truly "safe", but I'd like to think there are things I could do to feel safe-ER. That is when I come to MB for answers you can't give me. <P>What you seem to be telling me is that I can't expect to feel safe, that someone else's need for "safety" will always outweigh mine because of what I did, and that anything I do to make myself feel safe-ER will lead to either a lifetime of being alone or will make me a liar and a bad person. Right now, I don't know which is worse.<p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited November 05, 2000).]

<BR>Country guy,<P>You make a good point. I probably did know what the answer to my question would be. You are right that I don't trust a man I could be in an intimate relationship with to use this information wisely.<P>And there it is. Your right, this requires a level of trust and it can back fire. Tis the risk all of us take when we open our hearts and ourselves to anyone. Doesn't really matter what the past history is because the only people that can truely hurt us are the ones we love. Think about it, do you really care what your worst enemy thinks or says about you? Of course not.<P>it will only serve to "brand" me as a cheater to yet ANOTHER person. I know that you don't understand why this would make it much more likely for me to repeat this behavior.<P>Two things, you put the "brand" on yourself and yes I DO understand your reasoning. Been there, done that. (Not with cheating but with other things.) The problem is, I was wrong when I thought that way, and your wrong now.<P>Consider this for a second. With absolutely no reservations I can tell you that if a woman I was "interested" in told me something like this my first reaction would be; Look at her strength to be able to be honest. Look at how open, honest and trusting she is. How lucky I am to find someone that cares about my reactions enough to tell me all about it. Hey, I've made mistakes too, maybe I too can reveal my deep dark secrets.<P>I like to use examples so please bear with me. Lets say you had a drinking problem. That when your under stress the drinking becomes worse. Now you meet a person you are truely interested in. Two ways to handle it. The first would be to keep it a secret promicing yourself you will keep it from happening. Of course this just adds stress to an existing problem and stress is the one thing you don't need. You can't talk to anyone because "he" would find out. End result, you start drinking again to relieve the stress of lying and trying to keep it from the other person.<P>Now handle it the other way. You tell this person that you've had a drinking problem, that it is stress related, and that there are certain situations you need to avoid. This person now has the background information to decide if he is willing to become more involved, shouldering some responsibility to keep stress out of your lives. Or he can make an informed decision to walk away.<P>Which makes more sense? Lie and run the risk (certainty) he will find out some day and you have no idea how he will react to the discovery. Or let him know up front so you can see his reactions BEFORE committing to a life together.<P>I'm happy for you that telling your wife made you feel better<P>Whoa! Had nothing to do with making me feel better. In fact I sweated blood for days before I told her about it. What it really came down to was the knowledge that lying is no basis for a marriage. (Or a friendship.) That if she were to accept me she had to accept all of me. Finding a spouse isn't like buying a car where we get to decide which parts we like or dislike. It's a package deal. She had every right to know what came with the package. Why? Because I loved her and if I love someone, their best interest is always at the front of my thoughts.<P>Only I can decide how I'm going to handle this information in the future.<P>Afraid not. There are obviously many people that know about it so they too can decide how and when the information comes to light. All you can do is beat them to the punch with an open, honest accounting of what happened. I know your getting tired of hearing it, but the truth always comes out somehow.<P>The answer for me is not to have a new relationship.<P>Hmmm.. Actualy, given your current state I think that's a very wise choice. I don't see you loving or forgiving yourself so I doubt you could do it for anyone else. Quit worrying so much about what might happen and start working on making TS the person she knows she can and wants to be.<P>The only true control we have in this life is who and what we are, and no one or no thing can take that away.<BR>

Country Guy,<P>This conversation has convinced me that it will be an exceptionally long time before I can hope to have any kind of decent relationship. I get sad when I think about how long it will have to be. <P><p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited November 05, 2000).]

Shoot, I post and repost. I get angry, then calm down and have to come back and edit.<P>Why do I still feel so guilty? My ex certainly didn't feel guilty for the way he treated me. Didn't feel guilty for dating both before the divorce and immediately afterward. Didn't feel guilty for stringing me along for 8 yrs and grinding me into the ground. He's doing just great now. Heck, part of the reason I'm even in this mess is because I felt sooo guilty for moving him for my school (WHY!!!!!), then got depressed and convinced myself he'd be better off without me. <P>Curse this godd*mn conscience. I don't see any benefit to being honest at all. If I had half a brain I would have just used him to support me for my school. Oh, but NOOOO. I can't do THAT! That wouldn't be RIGHT!!<P>So now, if I want to date again, I've got to "fess up" and get dumped god knows how many times so that I can feel like a "good person". What exactly do I fess up to? What am I supposed to say? My ex was a GREAT guy who really loved me and I broke his heart? Of course, if I say anything differently some guy will think I'm not remorseful enough. The reality is, my ex was NOT a great guy. The only thing I really did WRONG was not divorcing his sorry butt instead of cheating on him. But then my idiot conscience doesn't believe in divorce either. What the heck am I supposed to do?<P>So, now what? Why should I wait to date? Why can't my stinking conscience let me use some guy for sex and a good time at least? Why should I be "honest"? Even if some guy did stay with me, how many MORE damn hoops am I going to have to jump through? How much more am I going to have to pay? Is this what I have to look forward to the rest of my life? Someone give me a damn gun, cause it ain't worth it.<P>I was honest with my second ex from the very beginning and look where that got me. Once upon a time, I was a nice, sweet, trusting, honest person before he got his hands on me. Why should I think things will be better next time? Even if things are "better" why would I want to live with someone who thinks I'm going to cheat on him at the first opportunity? <P>I am so frustrated I could spit.<p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited November 05, 2000).]

TS,<P>I can actually relate to your "statue of limitations" question from the betrayed spouse standpoint. As you may know from my posting, my H has had multiple affairs. Many can only relate to (tolerate)staying in a marriage after one affair. Most would not tolerate and therefore, not relate, to why a spouse would stay after a second affair. But a third, or 4th,... Shame on me, right?<P>Therefore, I relate to your question w/respect to how many affairs still give me the betrayed spouse "victim" license? The "support" (for lack of a better word) that betrayed spouses invoke is lost on someone like me.<P>So, I too, feel the shame of infidelity. When I consider a future relationship, I am not proud of the fact that I stayed in my marriage as long as I have. I also fear that this future partner or people in general, will look at my situation half-heartedly because to THEM the solution was so simple; therefore, what is wrong w/ME? Will that partner take advantage of me and think that they too can do the same to me? Will they think, boy, she must have been atrocious to live w/if he HAD to cheat that much.<P>So, TS, I know that people, do and will continue to judge me. But I also know that they have not walked a minute in my shoes. Even the best communicators cannot describe every nuance of their relationships. Only the people in it know what actually went on and as you know, even those two can have VERY different perspectives.<P>My past experience has shaped my present and will influence my future. Like you, it is up to me to decide, to what extent the past will have on the present and future. But, if I have learned nothing, I have learned that honesty is necessary for me. Dishonesty has had devastating effects in my life. <P>Should a future partner ask about my past, I will be hesitant for the reasons stated above, but I will tell, for this is who I am.... someone who loved too long but also someone who learned to love herself.<P>God Bless you TS on your journey,<BR>Enlightened<P>

TS,<P>I don't know exactly what to say.....<BR>I do know that we have belabored the **** out of this point, and have achieved a stalemate in the debate.<P>Stop beating yourself up, friend. You have a good life....so your ideas of intimcy and relationships have changed. BFD!! I'll bet a nickle to a doughnut they will change again.<P>You choose to be celibate and single...So....who knows you may change after a while....If you don't then I am certain you will be content.<P>Well I need some rest....take good care..<P>In case no one told you today....I love you <P>Bill<P>

Dear TS,<P>When I post you, I often go against my better judgement. I only think how I can help you see other perspectives.<P>If you seemingly see us all as your ex-H (#2), I think you will feel the us against you situation. I actually believe myself that I can help with another real-life perspective because the world is made up of very different people with different capacity for acceptance of another's 'failures' or 'triumphs'.<P>I just want to come to a closure with you and you will be delighted that I will not read any of your posts again because they remind me of my own 'inflated do good onto others'. Because I am not God, and I definitely cannot help you. I will go post those whose anguish are as palpable but who doesn't see me as an enemy who can't wait to BRAND them on their foreheads.<P>Take care<BR>weep

enlightened,<P>I know how you feel. I wanted to stay in my first marriage after he slept with 20 different women. You'd think it would be testament to my faith in marriage. That is how I felt about it.<P>My second ex, believe it or not, used THAT against me too. Even though I didn't cheat on my first ex, I was "flawed" in his eyes because I'd even marry someone who could do that, and worse for wanting to stick it out. In addition, he had to find some way to convince himself that there must have been something I did to compel him to cheat that much. It is obvious to me now that I probably could have been a saint and my ex would have found some way to twist it around and use it against me in some way.<P>My only advice is don't even entertain a relationship with anyone who asks you "why did you stay?" That should be the first red flag. It should be blatantly obvious that it was your commitment to marriage that compelled you to stay. I understand your fear of finding someone who will get the impression that this is the kind of behavior you will tolerate. A good person won't be looking for ways they can cheat.<P>Kind of goes back to one of my original thoughts. I'm sure you will be compelled to tell, but anyone compelled to ask is someone looking for an excuse to judge you or trying to find loopholes for their own behavior IMO. Someone compelled to ask would not be someone willing to see who you are now and who doesn't have enough trust or patience that you will come forward with whatever you are willing to share when the time is right for YOU. <P>I've mentioned before that I will end a relationship with anyone who asks point blank about the details of my marriage, and I'm sticking to that. The people I've told my story to so far are people who have not asked. So far, I haven't been disappointed. People who have asked, I have either lied to or found a way to answer the question without really answering it. I'm still convinced that people who ask don't have my best interests at heart. <P>Bill,<P>I love ya too... I was thinking about those pamphlets you mentioned some time ago...<P>weep,<BR>I won't be happy if you stop reading my threads. Personally, I think you'd have some good reasons for wanting to "brand" someone like me. I couldn't blame you for being afraid and wanting to make sure this doesn't happen again. I'm sure you are just as afraid of being cheated on again as I am that someone will use it against me the rest of my life. I'm doing my best to believe the world is not "out to get me". Kinda hard after living with a man for 8 yrs who was (IMO).<P>Here's my only advice for you. After my first husband's obvious lack of moral compass, I searched out someone who had one, my now second ex. Well, I swung from one extreme to the other apparently. I went from someone who had no "discernment" all the way to someone who felt it was his right to judge absolutely everything. I guess it made me feel safer that he had such STRONG moral principles. However, he was the most unforgiving, ungraceful person I've ever met. His so-called strong moral principles was a blunt object used to hurt other people, not a guiding force.

Hey TS!<P>Are you sure that you are not a thick headed Dutchman? [woman]<P>Don't even try to tell me that people don't care about you. Youre barking up the wrong tree lady!<P>If no one cared, your post would be in OZ by now, = no responses at all.<P>I feel for you, but just can't reach you. You are punishing yourself. We can all see that, you are the only one that doesn't.<P>Don't give me the crap that we/I don't understand. Hello!!! I was the betrayer the first round and the betrayed most recently. Sound familiar only in reverse? <P>I beat myself up for awhile as well. Got up, dusted myself off and am ready to conquer the world.<P>It's past time for you. You have paid your dues. You are your own worst enemy.<P>That's how I see it. No cutsie wotsie examples. <P>I only hope that you find the comfortable place in life that I have.<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Zippy

Zippy,<BR>I tell myself that there isn't a whole lot of reasons for me to be worrying about this, but I guess I like to "plan ahead".<P>When I even think about telling someone I might care about (ie. a man) I get absolutely paralyzed. If any guy even appears to be remotely interested, I run for the hills. I have lots of other good reasons not to date (mainly my PhD) and so I'm not too bummed about that really. <P>I think about it way too much, like, if I say anything unfavorable about my ex, or even fail to describe him in glowing terms, then I won't "appear" remorseful enough. If I don't appear too "upset" (like crying, etc) when I talk about it, then somehow I think it is "ok" what I did. Even saying "I cheated and my husband couldn't forgive me" feels like a lie. I know that is what someone would want to hear, but I can't say those words. Not just because of fear, but because I'd be denying a huge part of what happened just to make it "look good" to someone else. Even telling someone he punished me sounds like whining. If I tell someone all the good things I felt I did in the marriage, it sounds like I'm looking for a pat on the back. I just can't imagine any way to discuss this with someone that does justice to my experience too. That is another reason I don't want to talk about it. What I really want to say is I hurt him, he hurt me. It's over with now. Any more questions?

<BR>TS writes:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I just can't imagine any way to discuss this with someone that does justice to my experience too. That is another reason I don't want to talk about it. What I really want to say is I hurt him, he hurt me. It's over with now.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Then why not simply tell your next fiance precisely those words, and then answer any questions he poses?<P>We're going in circles in this thread because you want to "define away" your past. The latest version of this declares your intention to cohabitate with your partner, predicated on the dubious notion that spouses are entitled to informed consent but cohabitators are not.<P>You know what, TS? I raised the issue of informed consent and quite obviously it scored a direct hit on your conscience. JL called it: You're too honest of a person to deny another person their informed consent. Forgive yourself for your betrayal, TS. Its not going to be held against you by your finance, nor will it be used as a weapon.<P>Bystander

TS,<P>The quote that Bystander just posted, is where you need to focus. It is so honest, it is true, and you would be surprised how most men would take it. Yes, the man in your life may ask a few more questions, but a man who is in love with you and has no interest in using the details against you will respect your reluctance to delve into details.<P>What you really seem to fail to grasp, is that most men want the Readers Digest version, not the War and Peace version. <P>The answer you gave would be honest and accurately reflect your feelings. You have this whole thing in a black and white frame. But is isn't true unless all men are like your father and two exH's. We are not. Therefore, black and white doesn't fit most of us, and certainly not the ones posting to you.<P>Here is the real problem I feel. You are, by way of your experience, expecting all men to act like the past significant men in your life. What troubles you is that you could love them and endure much to continue to love them. Yet, we are for the most part not like you exMen, . So you are having trouble envisioning how you would deal with us, how we would react, how we could love you, want to protect you rather than take advantage of you. Isn't this the real problem?? <P>You are very smart, but you cannot see men other than through your past and the image is not good. That is so sad. And what is more sad, is that you know all of this, but cannot help yourself change it. You "know" we are not all like your ex's, but you don't "feel" as if we are. Perhaps counseling, perhaps more time and distance, and perhaps just more experience with different men will help.<P>Now if you expect to find men not interested in sex , forget it. IF you do find them, I don't think you will be interested.<P>Finally, TS, "the statute of limitations" on honesty never expires, but "the statute of limitations" on your behavior was never in place to begin with. You are not a criminal, you are a good woman. You do have some problems, derived from the men in your past, but you are not a criminal. You and only you must deal with those problems.<P>You have nothing to live down, Young Lady. You just have to live up, to your capabilities. <P>So think about all of this, but quit ruminating on it. See if you can learn about men other than those represented by your exH's. If you do, I think the issues so throughly debated here will be reduced to their proper importance.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

TS,<P>Yes, I do have more questions. Thanks for asking.<P>What is you favorite color? Mine is blue.<P>What is your first name? You can tell me, I'm not a blabber mouth. I'm Tim.<P>Favorite number? Me, 3.<P>Oh, yeah and why can't you forgive yourself for the past and stop hiding behind the Phd thing?<P>You are an attractive intelligent woman, too intelligent for your own good IMHO.<P>I'm not done with you yet!<P>Zippy the Pinhead

"The latest version of this declares your intention to cohabitate with your partner, predicated on the dubious notion that spouses are entitled to informed consent but cohabitators are not."<P>I'm not a big fan of "living together" so that would be a pretty poor way to skirt around this issue. Odds are, I'd end up telling him anyway, then I'm stuck with a person I wouldn't want a commitment with and all the BS that goes along with taking relationships lightly (for me at least).<P>Dammit, Bystander and JL. I should start calling you two Jiminy Cricket. Remember how he was always on Pinocchio's shoulder trying to guide him to do the right thing? Shoot. I might be forced to break down and maybe start to believe I'm a decent person after all this, cause I know you wouldn't be wasting your time with me otherwise. <P>JL,<BR>"What troubles you is that you could love them and endure much to continue to love them." Yes, and I'm afraid I'm too messed up to see a good one when he crosses my path.<P>I understand very well that my "education" concerning men has been very skewed. Before I met my first H, men were for sex mainly. I guess I overdid it with my first H. LOL. After that, I was on the right path, but didn't have the confidence to walk from someone like my second ex. This is why I'm going out of my way to make male friends now. <P>About the sex thing...One of my biggest fears about the no-sex-before-marriage thing is ending up with some guy who doesn't like sex. Just think...all that time saving myself for nothing. Now THAT is scary!!<P>Zippy,<BR>You're funny. My favorite color is green. I'm afraid JL has it pegged with the PhD thing. It requires a great deal of concentration and time. It is the worst time to start a new relationship IMO. I realized that after just dating once. Too distracting. I've sacrificed too much to get here, and I won't get another chance at it. There are lots and lots of chances for me to have a relationship in the future. Thanks for the encouragement though. I have some cute guy friends I hang out with though, and make me feel good, and we have fun. They know where I'm at, and they don't pressure me for anything, which is nice.

TS,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Dammit, Bystander and JL. I should start calling you two Jiminy Cricket. Remember how he was always on Pinocchio's shoulder trying to guide him to do the right thing? Shoot. I might be forced to break down and maybe start to believe I'm a decent person after all this, cause I know you wouldn't be wasting your time with me otherwise.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hey guys.....could this be a minor breakthrough?????????????/<P>Well TS, I hope you look seriously at the above statement.<P>You are more than a decent person....if you don't believe it.....believe that we believe.<P> <P>Love ya,<P>Bill<P>